Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Umpires => Topic started by: skippy on December 11, 2008, 07:16:34 PM
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Do you/Have you ever walked or do you let the umpire make the decision...
I stiched myself up in a match at the end of the season! The keeper was giving me a bit of lip when I nicked a ball and didnt walk (given not out) but I definatly felt a nick!
Keeper "Just walk your out!"
Me "If I nick a ball I will walk" (trying to sound high and mighty)
Two overs later... nick one again stood my ground until the umpire gave it.
Keeper: "Didnt f***** walk that time did ya!" :-[
Some may see it as undermining the umpires decision making ability if a batsman walks so I will never walk!
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i will always walf if i nick it i just think its respect but thats my opinion.
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my coach says you only walk if you run out of gas
and that the ump is getting paid to do his job
So No
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Walk.
Its only a game, and it not only gives you the moral high ground but any runs scored by someone standing their ground are cheated ones.
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If you fouled someone in football and the ref didnt spot the foul (Much like an umpire doesnt spot an edge) would you stop the game?
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i stop the game, not in the way you've said it though, if its a bad foul and not giving i put the ball out so basically stopping the game
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A foul is a no ball, only seen and decided on by the umpire or referee. Robbie Fowler was brought down in the penalty area once and tried to stop the Ref awarding a penalty because he had not been tripped or impeded. That is a rare example of something that should happen in most cricket matches.
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What would you do in a situation where you nick the ball but nobody appeals?
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No i never walk unless its blatently obvious im out but yeah agree with what someone said above the umpires are there to do their job!
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it depends on the other team, the attitude and sportsmanship of the other team make's my mind up for me generally. if they are playing the game in the proper spirit i will always walk but if they are being a bunch of knobs i will stay.
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I walk.
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I have never had that happen, I would think it highly unlikely as people appeal for so much.
I have had a snorter brush the top of my glove and the bowler had a shout to which the umpire shook his head and said clearly nowhere near, I could not believe what a crap pitch it was and had stood there for a while before walking, the umpire called me back and said it was not out so I told him it had hit my glove, "no it didn't" he replied, I carried on walking to the thanks of the fielding side. Later one of the guys who thanked me had a huge edge to slip and didn't walk and didn't get given, so no karma there.
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I have always walked and always will walk, suppose it has been ingrained in me from an early age but there have been times when I have wandered off to the bemusement of my team mates but they know my principles. I couldn't stay and bat knowing I was cheating, regardless of the match situation. It does irk me though when you walk and the opposition say 'thanks bat' and then they come out to bat and smash one to slip and don't walk and just stand there but I suppose that is the game isn't it? The only good thing about being a walker is that you get a repuation around the league and so, theoretically you should be trusted by the umpires, although some of the one eyed umpires I have played against will give you out regardless.
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Are you sure you know every time you have nicked one?
I have umpired many good batsmen who at times have no idea whether it is pad, bat, wicket or something else.
I never walk but get off the field in a hurry when I am given, whether I believe I am out or not. Biggest sledge a player can give an umpire is to say he nicked on earlier in the day but wasn't given. Stirs everyone up even when it's a lie.
Leave it to the umpire and don't comment if you have had good or bad luck.
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Interesting point of view, but I think at the top end of the game I would understand it, but at my level non walkers just leave a bad taste in the mouth and stir the game up. Most people know for sure when they have nicked off or gloved one.
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I know when I nick one, I've never met a test player or below that was any different.
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The "non walkers just leave a bad taste" is an interesting comment. Go back and read my previous post on this thread. How sure is everyone that the ball was hit?
If non walkers leave a bad taste then what about the team that constantly appeals for anything that looks close?
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Art, you must have played quite a bit, it must be more difficult to tell from 22 yards than with the bat in hand. Anyone telling you they did not nick it or did nick it when it is the other way round is either fibbing, not that good or maybe unsure but I've been playing senior cricket for 20 years and never once had a batsman nick it without knowing. I will say in your defense that your tracks are going to be quicker than ours without so much swing so it may be easier to spot.
Those that appeal for everything tend to get less, so some sort of justice there.
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Welll be that as it may why pick on the batsman when fielders, especially those behind the wicket, in some teams have a habit of appealing for everything? Who is the bigger 'cheat' for want of a better word.
As for knowing when you hit it, I take it you don't play on very many flint hard wickets where the bat hitting the wicket can feel like ball on ball at times and sound like it?
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I don't have the joy of dry wickets here after our "summer", but have played on some very good ones including Sophia Gardens which will be hosting the Ashes this summer coming. The bottom of the bat can never feel like an edge, you might get Norb on here explaining the different drum like sounds to prove it. The only time I've really been unsure of something was taking a catch at second slip this year which I did not watch into the hand, I felt the ball hit the inside of my fingers which were resting on the grass. I did not have any doubt or hesitation that it was a simple catch but the keeper said in bounced just in front. I countered by saying that I felt downward force and the umpire was unsighted and the batsman stopped his walk and returned asking for the umpire to give it which he could not. I then spent the next 3 hours wondering as the opener who was captain also proceeded to add over 100 runs to his score at the time of 4. I thought I had it but the keeper swore blind it touched the grass.
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ive never walked i dont know why i always wait to see what the umpire says
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I think the problem is you quite often get sawn off by imcompetent umpires so why walk if the umpire doesnt give it? Theres alot of people who abuse you in league cricket for not walking and then the self same people hit the case off it and stand there ground! I walk if i know i hit it, i walked for a caught and bowled last year which could have gone either way but then sometimes i genuinely dont know so let the umpire make the decision, from a personal point of view i seem to get crap umpiring decisions!
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Oh and very competent umpires get bored watching incompetent crickets play the game and dislike incompetent cricketers tell them which way north is. I play the game ball by ball and don't care about attitude but there are umpires who are like many players who get uptight when they are tried by others. Perhaps your attitude sultan is getting in the way of your talent.
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Art, how do you feel when a batsman walks when you havnt thought he was out?
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May be immoral but i dont walk.. i think for the times you are given out when your not evens itself out imo
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Its only very poor players that think umpires are very poor. We all think we know better but player judgment is clouded on the field. I umpired this summer at my old club and the bowler I have known since we were at the same primary school hit the batsman plumb in front and no one appealed. At the end of the over he asked was it close and I said plumb, he just shook his head as he thought it was missing leg, a case of not appealing enough.
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Firstly irwinster it is not immoral not to walk, and neither is it immoral to appeal when things are close. What is immoral is to expect people to walk when you as a fielder believe they are out. What is immoral is to not accept the umpires decision immediately and that goes for both sides.
As ofr not appealing and what talisman says is interesting. Twice this season people have been out LBW, absolutely plumb and there was no appeal.
The first time with 9 down the batting team needed 71 to win. In the over were four shouts for LBW given not out (rightly so). But the third ball of the over struck the batsman on low the back pad, a straight one, in front of middle and off, slid off the pad onto the bat that was late and skidded to gully. I had the finger primed but no one appealed. Everyone, except the batsman and I, thought it hit the bat first. The team got the runs. I have a nice autograph collection of the 6 bermuda internationals who were on the losing side.
On Thursday a batsman was stuck on the backfoot by a full toss in front of middle. But his strange gyrations at the crease fooled just about everyone. No appeal expect two balls later when the keeper asked if he was out. Too late my friend.
I have from time to time called a batsman back when he thought he was out when it was my decision for my end and one of them was a high profile who thought he had hit it. He walked on appeal but I called him back, the opposing captain rather sheepishly rescinded the appeal as I called him back.
talisman makes the following excellent point "we all think we know better but player judgement is clouded on the field." Yesterday I watched the fielding team in grade cricket get suckered into absolute silliness by an ex Australian lady player. There was a master at work out there and after compiling 50 odd not out she won the batting, beat the bowling all ends up and had the fielders arguing amonst themselves at one point. This was a masterclass by a true professional player.
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I walk if I know I've hit it - Talisman, i think there can be instances when you're not sure. I had one last year, where I didn't walk as it didn't feel like I'd nicked it (my bat must have hit my pad at exactly the same time), but the umpire gave me, and the none strikler said there was definitely an edge.
My pet hate it players that don't walk, but also moan about bad decisions. In my book you can't do both. Take the rough with the smooth.
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I don't walk and I don't expect anyone else to do it that I play against either.
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I was slightly dishonest in my first post.
I walk if i edge it and there's an appeal, I do stand my ground if I feel i've edged it but nobody has appealed.
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If i edge it, i will walk straight away once its been caught and not look at the umpires decision, more of an instinct and a dissapointment then anything really, i just do it. But it does annoy me when you get the dodgy decision, but hey, thats cricket.
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i always stay, leave the job to the umps, as a keeper you know their are circumstances that a bat hasn't been given, if they don't walk, why should i ?
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i simply play by the rules, i go if im given but stay if im not. if the umpy asks if i knicked it though i tell the truth.
ill never forget the 2003 world cup when gilly walked and caused a mini-collapse.
all us non-walkers are doing are using the rules to our advantage.
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Whilst I usually do walk, I do see how not doing so is accepted, as they probably get plenty of decisions that don't go in their favour and balance it out. As a bowler there is little or nothing worse than an umpire not giving an edge and the batsman staying put.
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No i never walk unless its blatently obvious im out but yeah agree with what someone said above the umpires are there to do their job!
Chrissy you are the ones i class as cheats, people who only walk if they know they will get given but if they think they can get away with it stand! Cheats!
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My stance on it is - i dont walk ive been given out a few shockers so luck goes both ways make the most of it but i do this regarless of how obvious the edge is, its a different matter when it comes to keeping however if i catch the ball clean you just know but if i know it hasnt carried i dont claim the catch nut if im genuinly unsure which i have been in the past very rare but it happens you say 'im going to appeal but i dont know for sure' - its then up to the umpire only happend twice and one went either way and both times the umpires said i did the right thing. Thats just my view. And when it comes to other people nicking it and not walking obviously as the keeper you give them chat about it ! it would be silly not to how often people nick off soon after you question their morals is uncany its part of the game!
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No need to call anyone cheats GMhol if he doesnt walk then thats fine
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No i dont mind people who dont waslk consistantly but the ones who only dont when they think they can get away with it i consider that to be wrong!
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Why is that wrong? The umpire makes the decision not us. Why would there be an umpire if we walk when we get out!?
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NO its just the inconsistancey and disshonesty claiming to be a walker and then when you think you might get away with it staying i just feel is wrong only my opinion but i feel strongly that its wrong
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Firstly there are many times a keeper has no idea on what has actually happened and appeals anyway. So who is the real cheat here?
Given some of the howlers that umpires have given out in the recent two series in Australia who know anything anymore in any case.
The only comment I will make to those who walk all thje times, some times or not at all is to accpet the umpire's decision at all times with good grace.
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Chrissy you are the ones i class as cheats, people who only walk if they know they will get given but if they think they can get away with it stand! Cheats!
Thats what brian lara did.
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Firstly there are many times a keeper has no idea on what has actually happened and appeals anyway. So who is the real cheat here?
Are you a keeper yourself? I have to say i know when i have caught it clean or not bar those two occasions and have explained my actions in this issue. For me you can feel if you know its low and the ball jams your fingers ou have caught it if the ball hits the palms then you can tell from the angle it does so. Unlike Dhoni in England when the ball bounces 'up' into your palm you can feel it!
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Hmmm I was talking about the number of appeals many keepers make.
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Yes i have to say a few keepers do cheat but so do a few batters and a few bowlers and a few fielders all im saying is the keeper CAN! tell.
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is he not talking about lbws? like a lot of people appeal for everything? prob wrong!
thinking about it obviously not, my bad :-[
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Lol Gm. I have seen the best of keepers appeal for catches that had obviously not hit the bat and appeal for LBW's where there has been an edge. At times except where edges are fairly easy to see and hear a keeper really is going only by instinct rather than reality. Oh and that goes for all grades, ages and levels of cricket.
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Chrissy you are the ones i class as cheats, people who only walk if they know they will get given but if they think they can get away with it stand! Cheats!
Look right, what is your problem with me this is the 3rd or 4th time you have tried to start an arguement with me so what is your problem?!
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Chrissy i dont have a problem with you! I have a problem with people of that mindset we just appear to dissagree on a few things
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Ok no bother. But if thats the way i want to go about batting then thats the way i will!
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dont walk if i did what would be the point in the ump standing there, although im a awful actor and when i hit it i stare at the ump waiting for the umpire to give me so i make it obvi
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I used to walk when I was younger, then didn't in a crucial club match, got away with it and made an unbeaten 50-odd to save the game. Felt horrible afterwards, but reconciled myself with the fact that the umpire is there to make a decision - and there are many times when I'm given out off the arm, or to an lbw when I've nicked it into my pad. These days I don't walk - I let the umpire make the decision - but I also don't moan when I get a rough one. You can't have it both ways.
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I used to walk when I was younger, then didn't in a crucial club match, got away with it and made an unbeaten 50-odd to save the game. Felt horrible afterwards, but reconciled myself with the fact that the umpire is there to make a decision - and there are many times when I'm given out off the arm, or to an lbw when I've nicked it into my pad. These days I don't walk - I let the umpire make the decision - but I also don't moan when I get a rough one. You can't have it both ways.
Ditto. Although i do get a bit cranky when it was blatantly obvious that it wasn't out.
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i say in a game where there are league umpires present, leave the decision to them, however if you have a game where fellow teammates or members of your club are umpiring, i say walk, its unfair putting pressure on them when half the time they wanna be in the clubhouse with their feet up instead of standing in the middle....
however, if you admit to nicking a ball after you've been given not out to the umpire who made the decision, it can easily back fire in a later game. this happened to a mate of mine who said to the umpire after the game that he nicked one, the umpire then officiated at a later game and when the batsman had a huge inside edge onto his pad, and there was a half an appeal from mid-off, the umpire did not hesitate to raise the finger!
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Hmmm. yesterday the game started late and the opening bowler broke down after three balls. At tea I heard the opening batsman say that he got his gloves on that ball and was given not out. Hmmm, I was at square leg and the ball cleared his gloves by at least 10 cm.
I quietly had a word to the fileding side that he was just winding them up and if he believed he gloved it he should not be playing. People play strange games on a cricket field and often the umpires carry the can for their stupidity.
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Art how do you feel if a batsman walks when you have given him not out?
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Hmmm, If a batsman walks I assume that he believes he is out. However there is a section in the Laws about 'misapprehension'.
This question gets to the heart of this matter which is the fact that batsman do not know what happens in all circumstances. And frankly I don't care at what level they are playing at, from time to time a batsman has no idea in the heat of the moment and a flurry of activity.
My process has always been if a batsman walks then let him. However given the misapprehension Law that does change things at times.
I have said on one or two occasions whan a batsman has walked "How do believe you were out?" I expect an answer because at times any umpire (check recent test footage) can make a mistake.
Therte is a recent much celebrated dismissal I was involved in when a player walked (he was out) and out of courtesy I didn't raise the finger. I turned to the bowler who then looked rather startled. On looking down the end of the wicket the batsman had returned and was taking guard.
"Excuse me Sir but you are out!"
"You didn't put the finger up!"
"No because as a gentleman you walked and as a gentleman I didn't rub salt into the wound. Oh and by the way the sheds are in that direction."
We all burst out laughing because this was one of the better try ons I have seen.
Almost as good as the recent tour match where the South African side batsmen tried to resume after drinks at the wrong end and the fielding side had 12 on the field.