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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: jonpinson on March 22, 2011, 08:52:46 PM

Title: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: jonpinson on March 22, 2011, 08:52:46 PM
Right, so in accordance with the laws of the game, a bat can only comprise one piece of willow. This is to prevent performance based laminates being used. Fair enough. So why is it that today I have seen quite a few Kooks and GNs for sale which are quite obviously laminated bats?

Now, I don't believe for a minute these bats are an attempt to improve performance unfairly. What they are is an ugly bat with a very thin veneer of pretty bat glued on the face. I understand the concept, they look good until it clicks as to what is going on. But, surely they are by definition a laminate?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Johng on March 22, 2011, 08:56:32 PM
Purely economics Jon which I feel is a disturbing trend!!
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: jonpinson on March 22, 2011, 09:01:02 PM
Thats the obvious answer and if memory serves, 'veneered' bats are not new, but it does rather go against the rules, performance increase or not.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Colesy on March 22, 2011, 09:14:17 PM
If batsmen use these I am quite happy for bowlers to bowl grenades. Real ones.....
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 09:18:27 PM
does that mean a scuff sheet makes a laminate? The vinyl (not wood on the ones I've seen) they stick on the front is no different to the old Polyarmoured face that was peddled around in the 80's and it certainly didn't help performance.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: jonpinson on March 22, 2011, 09:19:33 PM
does that mean a scuff sheet makes a laminate? The vinyl they stick on the front is no different to the old Polyarmoured face that was peddled around in the 80's and it certainly didn't help performance.

Interesting. I think it refers only to wood, so in theory a scuff sheet is fine, but these looked like genuine wood veneers.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: tim2000s on March 22, 2011, 09:19:38 PM
If batsmen use these I am quite happy for bowlers to bowl grenades. Real ones.....
I wouldn't worry, they'll be cheap bats not used by good players.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 09:20:48 PM
Interesting. I think it refers only to wood, so in theory a scuff sheet is fine, but these looked like genuine wood veneers.

No it's like kitchen floor tile stuff on the Kooks, utterly disgusting.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 09:22:50 PM
though it would do a good job in the hallway and I could always burn the bat for firewood :D
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: jonpinson on March 22, 2011, 09:24:59 PM
Well I guess if it isn't made of wood then it isn't an issue?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: tommo256 on March 22, 2011, 09:30:26 PM
I'm trying one this season, I wonder whether it will get noticed. I am tring to find a way of covering up the joins
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: jonpinson on March 22, 2011, 09:31:42 PM
Trying what?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 09:37:06 PM
CJI Sumo 2010 stickers should do the job. Laminates aren't illegal in club cricket.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: roco on March 22, 2011, 09:38:47 PM
I thought they were illegal in all forms of competitive cricket regardless of level
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: tim2000s on March 22, 2011, 09:44:01 PM
I thought they were illegal in all forms of competitive cricket regardless of level
That's what the law is.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 09:48:22 PM
You can use them in "non competitive cricket", which I believe is regarded as below first class.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Colesy on March 22, 2011, 09:49:06 PM
I still regard any game as competitive ;)
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Talisman on March 22, 2011, 10:33:49 PM
Laminated bats are illegal in any form of the games played under MCC laws, so yes all league matches fall into this.

The Kookaburra Kahuna 150 does not have a laminated face, it has a scuff sheet fitted with a grain pattern on it, this is legal and is no different to a standard clear or opaque sheet. Many firms are working on this at the moment.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: roco on March 22, 2011, 10:42:08 PM
Competitive cricket is any league or cup the only non competitive cricket is friendly matches
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Colesy on March 22, 2011, 10:48:28 PM
Laminated bats are illegal in any form of the games played under MCC laws, so yes all league matches fall into this.

The Kookaburra Kahuna 150 does not have a laminated face, it has a scuff sheet fitted with a grain pattern on it, this is legal and is no different to a standard clear or opaque sheet. Many firms are working on this at the moment.

Oh no...
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Talisman on March 22, 2011, 10:51:58 PM
Makes sense, looks better than a White Poly cover.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Tom on March 22, 2011, 11:22:34 PM
3 yrs ago Gray Nicolls did a Nitro Extreme which was laminated, but other than that no big company has produced them (for sale) as far as I know for the last couple of years. CJI did a laminated Fatso, but dropped this with the most recent issue of the MCC laws.

It's only the Indian and Pakistani companies producing them for domestic markets I believe, so they can sell more top grade bats.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2011, 11:26:46 PM
bit of topic remember the old poly/plastic cover of the old stuart surridge bats with the white plastic back and clear plastic front
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
the GN's we the worst, they were almost like cloth material - any idea what it was?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2011, 11:32:06 PM
vylon??
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 11:33:57 PM
might be - but I have vylon on my Dukes and it's clear anti-scuff.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2011, 11:36:13 PM
vylon in the 80 was a yellow coated bat GM even had a  vylon model.

gn made a white polycoated powerspot a club bag must early 90.s

Duncan Fearnley had a popular plus which had some kind of polymer on it the Broad model
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: ProWannabe88 on March 22, 2011, 11:39:02 PM
IMO a laminated bat is illegal regardless of what level it's used at. Fact is though many people use them including many pro's (hell I would given the opportunity to get a good one) but I had this argument with a man running the shop at headingley cricket ground last week, he was selling kippax laminates and we ended up arguing for a good 40 mins over the 'legality' of the product. He was an ex county pro himself, and he honestly thought they were ok up to and including first class cricket! It's a clouded subject that needs demystifying as there's so many different opinions on what can and can't be used in the game.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 11:45:12 PM
Is that the same county pro who told me had requested a 2'8 bat and used it all season only to discover it was 2'12 (we were discussing pickup). What did you make of the new shop?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: Tom on March 22, 2011, 11:46:05 PM
Is that Chris Taylor in their new shop?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 11:48:23 PM
he was a tall lad (everyones big to me lol!) approx 6'3/4 at a guess - dark hair. That's about all I remember.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2011, 11:49:03 PM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/22006.html
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: 100 not out on March 22, 2011, 11:50:36 PM
vylon in the 80 was a yellow coated bat GM even had a  vylon model.

gn made a white polycoated powerspot a club bag must early 90.s

Duncan Fearnley had a popular plus which had some kind of polymer on it the Broad model

think it was polyflex plus. . . . u on the stella's again Davey boy.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 11:50:47 PM
nope - can't see him on cricinfo. I'll ask my mate who knows the shop guys tomorrow.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: procricket on March 22, 2011, 11:51:49 PM
that the words mate

Chrsi Broad used them
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: ProWannabe88 on March 22, 2011, 11:52:35 PM
No idea who he was, he wass bald anyway and he does a bit of coaching and played at Leicestershire apparently. I think he said. Without sounding like a martyr or insulting the chap he didn't seem to know an awful Lot about the gear he was stocking, or the quality. Just talked it up like a blind salesman. Everything anyone looked at got a 'thats quality that lad, soenso uses that' or a 'beauty that mate, well worth the sticker price' I could have picked up an empty wrapper and it would have been Glen mcgraths or similar lol. We had a good debate on the lams though and one I saw was easily 3lb plus and he was making out it was much much lighter. I think the layouts a bit crap and stuff was just thrown together but it's only been open a few week so give it chance and I'm sure it'll make plenty during the season. One thing I did notice was a GM flare LE and my god it was HUUUGE! Can't have weighed 2.10 tops and had about 18 grains. It looked immense but price of £319.99 put me off immediately lol
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 22, 2011, 11:58:21 PM
No idea who he was, he does a bit of coaching and played at Leicestershire apparently. I think he said. Without sounding like a martyr or insulting the chap he didn't seem to know an awful Lot about the gear he was stocking, or the quality. Just talked it up like a blind salesman. Everything anyone looked at got a 'thats quality that lad, soenso uses that' or a 'beauty that mate, well worth the sticker price' I could have picked up an empty wrapper and it would have been Glen mcgraths or similar lol. We had a good debate on the lams though and one I saw was easily 3lb plus and he was making out it was much much lighter. I think the layouts a bit crap and stuff was just thrown together but it's only been open a few week so give it chance and I'm sure it'll make plenty during the season. One thing I did notice was a GM flare LE and my god it was HUUUGE! Can't have weighed 2.10 tops and had about 18 grains. It looked immense but price of £319.99 put me off immediately lol

Sounds like the same guy. Thought the amount of senior bat stock was poor, not many GM models to choose from but did see a big GN with a price to match.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: ProWannabe88 on March 23, 2011, 12:04:25 AM
The GM stuff wasn't bad at all last week a bit chucked in a pile but the bats weren't bad at all. Kook stuff was well stocked but not much of anything else. Mongoose gear was in as too was Slaz but doesn't look like any effort was put into the layout of the shop. The guy put me off as well, you just couldn't look around, every bat I looked at he was coming over, grabbing it off me and having a pick up and a straight drive with, really got my goat that!! I just felt like saying f*** off outside for ten and leave me to have a gander :) like an intefering wife shadowing me around the store.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 23, 2011, 12:09:21 AM
Might pop in tomorrow before nets and see whats in - open to 9pm weekdays and sundays
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 28, 2011, 09:24:19 PM
Had another classic from the shop. Was talking to an older guy and he showed me a bat that he thought was the best in the shop. He said " Look at that, lovely grains and it's only £80, I think it's a bargain". I then pointed out it was a Kook with some vinyl floor tile stuck over the top and after a few seconds he said "Oh I never knew that". That's why I'd rather spend half an hour in the company of Raje or Chris and talk to someone who knows about such things.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: uknsaunders on March 28, 2011, 09:25:54 PM
btw - saw two of the largest Kippax Laminates ever in the shop. Must of been close to 4lb and near 50-60mm edges. The spine wasn't on the small side either.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: ProWannabe88 on March 28, 2011, 09:27:12 PM
I might be popping in tomorrow again just to sample the ridiculosness of it all. Might even take the Ayrtek and see what he comes out with. Haha
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: 19reading87 on March 28, 2011, 09:28:26 PM
Has any1 actually used1?
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: ProWannabe88 on March 28, 2011, 09:28:43 PM
btw - saw two of the largest Kippax Laminates ever in the shop. Must of been close to 4lb and near 50-60mm edges. The spine wasn't on the small side either.
Middle of the wall, yellow stickers, two completely different shades of wood? That bad boy was in there last week and god was it heavy. It was easy pushing the 4lb+ mark. I couldn't even lift it properly.
Title: Re: Laminates:- Some findings from today.
Post by: espocrespo on March 28, 2011, 09:29:52 PM
Laminated bats are illegal in any form of the games played under MCC laws, so yes all league matches fall into this.

The Kookaburra Kahuna 150 does not have a laminated face, it has a scuff sheet fitted with a grain pattern on it, this is legal and is no different to a standard clear or opaque sheet. Many firms are working on this at the moment.
I saw this on a 2011 GN Oblivion