Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Tom on April 04, 2011, 10:12:47 PM
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As some of you may know I've been working in the industry now on/off for 5yrs. Have picked up a fair amount of knowledge and would like to share some, to help others wanting to work in the bat industry or just to help find a decent bat.
Have worked for a UK bespoke batmaker, run my own (very small) brand, shaped bats in a Meerut factory for a month and headed up production for one of the Uk's larger cricket companies. So questions loosely based around these subjects may be useful.
So if there's anything fire away...
Edit: Oh yeh, I set this forum up too. Nearly forgot.
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who do u rate as the best batmaker in the world?
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Which of the roles you've done was most fulfilling and why?
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Hi tom, I was wondering if you clear up a few questions on this topic I started earlier on today regarding on choosing a bat.
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=10801.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=10801.0)
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What was the hardest part about running your own company?
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Nicest pro you've met
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who do u rate as the best batmaker in the world?
Difficult question - I'm in awe at the shaping skills of the Indian makers. The uniformity they can create with basic hand tools in not perfect conditions is wonderful. But hard to look beyond a Tim Keeley convex face pressed, rather than the flat roller as seen on the GT, bat, he's a very knowledgeable guy too. I'm using one of his at the moment
I haven't seen the work of everyone though, so my advice is always to find a bat that suits you, taps up well and ignore the maker.
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How much would it roughly cost to buy all the tools and how much does willow and handles tend to cost?
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do you have time to play?! what bat do you use?
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What was the hardest part about running your own company?
Simple, accounts (more specifically tax!). Loved designing, fiddling with shapes but recording the hard numbers was a pain.
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do you have time to play?! what bat do you use?
I've only played the odd charity games for the past couple of seasons. After 5 days of cricket, I'm not really after playing yet more.
I've got a Tim Keeley custom which was made for Andrew Symonds. Some may call it a 'pro' bat.
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Nicest pro you've met
Lou Vincent.
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I bet Trescothick would have been nicer to you if you hadn't rung him in the early hours!
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How much would it roughly cost to buy all the tools and how much does willow and handles tend to cost?
You can run a basic setup (finishing part mades) with just a bench, vice, spokeshave and sandpaper. So no more than £100 if you buy carefully.
But a good set-up (working from scratch) you're looking at least £10,000 for press, pneumatic sanders, bandsaws, jigs, hand tools. The best setups with CNC machines etc run into the hundred's of thousands.
If it's something you're interested in then start out with part mades! Andy from SAF or someone who has taken a brand further would be good for advice.
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Which of the roles you've done was most fulfilling and why?
I feel I've learned most at Mongoose. To start at a brand in Week 1 as the only employee with no stock and be in 100+ retailers selling thousands of bats within 18months is quite a journey!
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Being quite young, did you have any worries about working in such a major role in a big company?
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tom,
do u still have some gear left from itias etc... that u are willing to sell.
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Being quite young, did you have any worries about working in such a major role in a big company?
It was a small company to begin with, I've been very lucky to have the opportunity to grow with it.
But of course I doubt myself sometimes, feel a little out of my depth and comfort zone. As they say, a ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.
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What direction will you take within the cricket world next and what would you say were the most important lessons you've learned?
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tom,
do u still have some gear left from itias etc... that u are willing to sell.
Perhaps a pair of pads kicking around somewhere. Managed to flog most of it, eventually!
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What direction will you take within the cricket world next and what would you say were the most important lessons you've learned?
I'm not sure if cricket is where I'll stay, but I do want to explore manufacturing in China and have a 6 week trip there (mainly for pleasure!) booked for next week.
I'll come back later on the other question, it needs more thought!
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Regarding the topic started earlier today about willow moisture...
If you went into a retail cricket shop and had a look at the bats, how could you tell which bats have been 'over-dried' or have low moisture and visa versa, how could you tell which bats have a decent moisture level.
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Regarding the topic started earlier today about willow moisture...
If you went into a retail cricket shop and had a look at the bats, how could you tell which bats have been 'over-dried' or have low moisture and visa versa, how could you tell which bats have a decent moisture level.
I couldn't say for definite which individual bat was over-dried or even guess at percentage. Though I could have a decent guess at which brands are drying to a lower moisture level - it would be the ones consistently producing mammoth bats.
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Are you ready for total world domination? one step at a time obviously....
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Have mongoose made any trading profits? if not when do u expect to see the first year of tradng profits?
how many bats do mongoose sell a year?
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What was the hardest part about working with mongoose ?
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Have mongoose made any trading profits? if not when do u expect to see the first year of tradng profits?
how many bats do mongoose sell a year?
Only been going for one full year (May 09-10) I'd presume accounts are up on Companies House if interested. Won't answer the 2nd question, as it's a pretty private one.
6,000 this season I'd hope. Last year was circa 2,000. Work to do - but as Tres hasn't even hit a ball in anger with one yet I'd think that'll push sales on into 2012.
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Mongoose initially used Hunts County for their higher ranged bats but now this has apparently changed. Could you say who it is now if this is true.
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Fussiest pro?
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do u want Tres to hit the ball out of lords? its gonna cost u a few bob
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Mongoose initially used Hunts County for their higher ranged bats but now this has apparently changed. Could you say who it is now if this is true.
4 batmakers (2 India, 2 UK) make Mongoose's at the moment. SS is one, Hunts do a small amount, the other 2 have asked it's kept quiet so in their interests I'm not going to shout about it.
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do u want Tres to hit the ball out of lords? its gonna cost u a few bob
Insured, but he's got only 1 game to do it this season and that's only if Somerset make it to the final.
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Fussiest pro?
I don't mind them being fussy when they know what they're talking about. The majority just want it to look big and bowed - kudos in the changing room maybe?
Fussiest is probably Azhar Mahmood. Trescothick is picky about handles, but he'll do work on them himself to get them to spec.
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do any of your pros use normal bats ? i mean with a conventional splice.
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How do you see Mongoose expanding? Obviously with Tres now being sponsored you're going to get more interest and a lot more people take the bats seriously. However do you see the Mii3 as the only innovation that Mongoose will bring to cricket? Or are you currently researching new ways of innovating the products within the game?
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Thanks Tom. I'm all out of questions now.
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do any of your pros use normal bats ? i mean with a conventional splice.
On occasion yes. The restickering of bats is not something I'm fond of, but it does happen and I would say that's the case with all brands.
The pro's swap bats in the changing rooms, try out other makers etc. Much like ourselves on this forum.
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On occasion yes. The restickering of bats is not something I'm fond of, but it does happen and I would say that's the case with all brands.
The pro's swap bats in the changing rooms, try out other makers etc. Much like ourselves on this forum.
fair enough. . . . very honest of you Tom
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in general terms what things do pro's look for in a bat. are they knowledgeable about willow and bats.
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How do you see Mongoose expanding? Obviously with Tres now being sponsored you're going to get more interest and a lot more people take the bats seriously. However do you see the Mii3 as the only innovation that Mongoose will bring to cricket? Or are you currently researching new ways of innovating the products within the game?
Perfecting the game in the UK and then spreading into new markets I think is the aim.
Ideally I'd like to refresh and continue the evolution of a full kit in the way Aero have done but as ever there are budgets. Mongoose's soft gear for this season I'm very pleased with.
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in general terms what things do pro's look for in a bat. are they knowledgeable about willow and bats.
Generally they just want a big bow with big edges.
Some are knowledgable. Azhar Mahmood weighed all the raw clefts to find the lightest. Trescothick can tell the batmaker often by just looking at the bat. Whereas Lou Vincent will use pretty much anything.
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How strong are the brand contracts for players? Are they a one-season only thing or is every contract different?
Can a player buy himself or the brand by a player out of a current contract if he wants to be sponsored by a different brand?
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tom,
is itias still up for sale?
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Are there any of the bigger brands who you look too sometimes for advice, and do they give it?
Also which of the brands do you respect the most and why?
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How strong are the brand contracts for players? Are they a one-season only thing or is every contract different?
Can a player buy himself or the brand by a player out of a current contract if he wants to be sponsored by a different brand?
In my experience they're 2/3 year deals usually, but it does depend on their age and prospects! With the IPL, tournament based contracts are eeking their way in, but not quite mainstream. I suspect some Indian brands may have signed a few players for the WC on a similar basis.
Usually they come to a natural end, the brand and player then re-negotiate or go their separate ways. I haven't seen players buying their way out of contracts, but that isn't to say it doesn't happen.
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how much is a bog standard . . . county pro contract approx?
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Are there any of the bigger brands who you look too sometimes for advice, and do they give it?
Also which of the brands do you respect the most and why?
Hunts County, who have been in the industry for years, have been most useful to me. Steve there is a legend. But to be quite honest everyone's quite pally and goes out for a drink after trade shows etc. It's only a small industry with 10 big brands and 200 shops - so everyone knows everyone and will throw the odd bit of advice your way as long as it doesn't impact their own business too much!
GM - constantly reinventing themselves. Have a stunning factory and produce quality gear, year in, year out.
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how much is a bog standard . . . county pro contract approx?
Gonna try and avoid the £ based questions where possible. Their pay is relative to their exposure.
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How did you get Tresco to be sponsored by yourselves? He obviously had a good relationship with GM, did it come to a natural end, did he want to try something else?
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How did you get Tresco to be sponsored by yourselves? He obviously had a good relationship with GM, did it come to a natural end, did he want to try something else?
I think he fancied a change and that co-incided with the time the contract was up.
I'd personally argue he offers more value as a name to Mongoose (marquee name) than he does to GM, where he'd be alongside the Trott's, Watson's, Smith's.
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tom is itias still for sale?
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Yeah I suppose you're right, I didn't think of that. However I'm sure GM are disappointed in losing him as he still is such a big name around the county game still and congrats on acquiring his services.
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tom is itias still for sale?
If you just want the name and domain, I don't see why not.
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how much?
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How did you get started in the cricket business? Also what's your cricket history as a brief search on the web says that you worked for Fusion and then Itias. As it's something I've got a big interest in and it's something I've been looking about getting into since I finished uni.
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Fussiest is probably Azhar Mahmood. Trescothick is picky about handles, but he'll do work on them himself to get them to spec.
WHat make Azhar Mahmood fussiest?
I really don't know your background but you're a top bloke so I wanted to know were you founder of Itias? And are you founder of Mongoose as well or just work at them?
You have been to India and Pakistan (I believe) many times so what is the different between batmaking there and in UK? What makes them inferior compare to UK?
Why isn't it possible to get UK brand softs from India despite them being made in India ?
Will write more when I can think of any..
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Has the Mongoose brand targeted the upcoming 2011 IPL any more than previous years? there was an opportunity last year with the publicity surrounding M Hayden, has the brand capitalised on that at all, i.e. signed up more IPL players and pushed the brand more in to public view?
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I think Tom may be sleeping well now after this and so will lock as he can always start a new thread when he fancies fielding more questions.
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How did you get started in the cricket business? Also what's your cricket history as a brief search on the web says that you worked for Fusion and then Itias. As it's something I've got a big interest in and it's something I've been looking about getting into since I finished uni.
- Joined CSF, became a mod on CSF and learned basic web design at school.
- Designed a website for Fusion (in exchange for kit) and then ended up doing a bit of part-time work there on the PC and in the workshop.
- Set up Custombats.co.uk then set up Itias.
- Flew to India and asked a factory owner if I could hang around for a month.
- Returned from India. Rang up Mongoose on launch day and started work within a week.
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What are you doing now and future plans Tom?
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WHat make Azhar Mahmood fussiest?
I really don't know your background but you're a top bloke so I wanted to know were you founder of Itias? And are you founder of Mongoose as well or just work at them?
You have been to India and Pakistan (I believe) many times so what is the different between batmaking there and in UK? What makes them inferior compare to UK?
Why isn't it possible to get UK brand softs from India despite them being made in India ?
Will write more when I can think of any..
Azhar is picky on the size and shape of his bats. As well as his handle. He spent a couple of hours at Hunts County perfecting his template bat when he first signed.
Founder of Itias. Employee of Mongoose - joined in Week 1.
Only been to India. First apparent difference is working conditions. Every Indian bat isn't inferior to a UK made bat - but their slightly haphazard method of working means they can be slightly more hit and miss. The difference is getting smaller IMO, as brands such as Kook/Adidas demand such a high quality that they're using machinery more and are picking up finishing techniques from those in the UK.
Because the factories have big contracts to make them for X brand. X brand them chooses where they sell them. The price point for softs in India means that you have to lose a bit of padding or special touches to make them accessible. SS/SG can always undercut you in the Indian market as there's no middleman or royalties for them to pay. Does that make sense?
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Has the Mongoose brand targeted the upcoming 2011 IPL any more than previous years? there was an opportunity last year with the publicity surrounding M Hayden, has the brand capitalised on that at all, i.e. signed up more IPL players and pushed the brand more in to public view?
Marquee Indian players are getting more expensive, players even such as Harbhajan demand in excess of £100,000. Because of that there's a rethink of approach. The approach is an exciting one, but it's looking like a 2012 project.
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What are you doing now and future plans Tom?
On a short term consultancy contract. Future plans I'm not sure - I have very little formal qualifications so maybe putting some of it down on paper. We'll see what crops up though.
For the next 6 weeks I'm off to China.
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Itias?What does it mean? i have googled it but have come up with nothing that makes sense.
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Derived from the greek name for willow. You won't find much googling for it, the website is no longer up.
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Azhar is picky on the size and shape of his bats. As well as his handle. He spent a couple of hours at Hunts County perfecting his template bat when he first signed.
Founder of Itias. Employee of Mongoose - joined in Week 1.
Only been to India. First apparent difference is working conditions. Every Indian bat isn't inferior to a UK made bat - but their slightly haphazard method of working means they can be slightly more hit and miss. The difference is getting smaller IMO, as brands such as Kook/Adidas demand such a high quality that they're using machinery more and are picking up finishing techniques from those in the UK.
Because the factories have big contracts to make them for X brand. X brand them chooses where they sell them. The price point for softs in India means that you have to lose a bit of padding or special touches to make them accessible. SS/SG can always undercut you in the Indian market as there's no middleman or royalties for them to pay. Does that make sense?
Thank you Tom make perfect sense!
By machines being used in India you mean CNC type ones ? Or sanding, twining etc ones ?
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tom is ur inbox full?