Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Topic started by: Howzat on June 13, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
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"Breaking news..mongoose cricket files for bankruptcy protection,hayden and andersen not paid in months"
Source: http://twitter.com/#!/Ravideveloper
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Source to read?
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Not showing yet on the Companies House website.
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http://twitter.com/#!/Ravideveloper
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Do we have Bankruptcy protection in the Uk?? The Bankruptcy Fund is there to protect people losing their homes in case of bankruptcy but i dont think we have a "Chapter 11 style Protection" in the UK I could be wrong though
It could be they have been issued a winding up order by Hayden and Anderson to get Moneys owed but anyone can do that for any amount of money.
A source where this came from would be good Leo
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no news articles on the subject - looks like twitter bs unless somebody knows differently.
Could also be a totally different company called Mongoose, or a non uk arm as it doesn't sound like a UK type bankruptcy.
No trusted source = no truth
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no news articles on the subject - looks like twitter bs unless somebody knows differently.
Could also be a totally different company called Mongoose, or a non uk arm as it doesn't sound like a UK type bankruptcy.
No trusted source = no truth
Totally agree ;)
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well given Tom is online and hasn't commented plus traditionally with this type of thing there is no smoke without fire... I think there maybe something in this...
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There may be truth in this, but no, in the UK there isn't Bankruptcy Protection. The links in the Twitter feed are to cricket related Mongeese, so I'd suggest that they relate to Mongoose Cricket.
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I honestly don't know, I saw this on Twitter the other day and that was the first I'd heard of it. I actually asked a couple of guys on here if they'd heard anymore.
But as I've said previously, I'm no longer involved as an employee so I wouldn't have any reason to hear about it.
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TheBoyLedgend, you are right we do not have chapter 11 style protection as they do in the US. What the poster may be referring to is a moritorium that is put in place over the company once a "notification of intention to appoint an administrator" is filed with the courts.
Companies house would not yet show anything as the NOI is a court document, the first CH document you would see would be a notification of the appointment of an administrator circa 10 days after any appointment takes place. (All of this is assuming Mongoose is a limited company of course?! I havent checked)
I will have a word with a few colleagues and see if anything has been heard.
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You can still purchase bats online at the Mongoose Website. I called their office and asked directly whether they were still trading on the web as I had heard a rumour that they were insolvent, and I was concerned about purchasing from the website.
If they have filed for Bankruptcy, this shouldn't be taking place as it is illegal to trade whilst insolvent.
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TheBoyLedgend, you are right we do not have chapter 11 style protection as they do in the US. What the poster may be referring to is a moritorium that is put in place over the company once a "notification of intention to appoint an administrator" is filed with the courts.
Companies house would not yet show anything as the NOI is a court document, the first CH document you would see would be a notification of the appointment of an administrator circa 10 days after any appointment takes place. (All of this is assuming Mongoose is a limited company of course?! I havent checked)
I will have a word with a few colleagues and see if anything has been heard.
Mongoose is registered with Companies House.
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As far as I know this stuff first happened on Friday
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I think going into administration allows you to still trade but filing for bankruptcy means you cant as you say tim2000s
interesting to see if this is true or not
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TheBoyLedgend, you are right we do not have chapter 11 style protection as they do in the US. What the poster may be referring to is a moritorium that is put in place over the company once a "notification of intention to appoint an administrator" is filed with the courts.
Companies house would not yet show anything as the NOI is a court document, the first CH document you would see would be a notification of the appointment of an administrator circa 10 days after any appointment takes place. (All of this is assuming Mongoose is a limited company of course?! I havent checked)
I will have a word with a few colleagues and see if anything has been heard.
Thanks King glad Im not going Mad!
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I agree no smoke without fire but the only source steems to be.one person who has set up a twittering account only tks spread the word about mongoose. Although i have a gut feeling that this will indeed turn out to be true, i think we should wait until we havemore tangible evidence.
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It is illegal to trade whilst insolvent, however it may have been decided that a sale of the business as a going concern is going to be affected. This maintains value in the company for the benefit of creditors as a trading company is worth more than one that has been shut down.
If this is the case a SIP9 document would have to be produced immediately upon the company going into administration and we should start to hear about it very shortly. (any creditors will receive notification).
I think we should try and find out if there is any truth before speculating anyway.
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Mongoose is registered with Companies House.
It is a limited company then yes.
I think going into administration allows you to still trade but filing for bankruptcy means you cant as you say tim2000s
interesting to see if this is true or not
Trading Administrations can take place yes, as I say so that the company can be sold as a going concern rather than being shut down. Companies cannot become bankrupt only individuals. The company equivalent of bankruptcy is liquidation. This usually takes palce when there is no value in the company to be realised by the administrator. With the specialist equipment held by such a company I would suggest Administration would be the case.
Never nice to hear if it is true but on the positive side, there may be some cheap bats knocking around very shortly!!!
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King Pair, it means in truth the signatures have committed fraud.
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It is a limited company then yes.
Trading Administrations can take place yes, as I say so that the company can be sold as a going concern rather than being shut down. Companies cannot become bankrupt only individuals. The company equivalent of bankruptcy is liquidation. This usually takes palce when there is no value in the company to be realised by the administrator. With the specialist equipment held by such a company I would suggest Administration would be the case.
Never nice to hear if it is true but on the positive side, there may be some cheap bats knocking around very shortly!!!
Barrington sports were already selling the premium MMi3 and the Cor3 for £120
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If this is true, then the writing was always on the wall. It was predicted that they were the next company to go down the drain
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King Pair, it means in truth the signatures have committed fraud.
Erm, I think perhaps this is a bit of a big shout LGA, especially when we dont even know if there is any truth in the story!!!
Placing a company into administration is in no way fraudulent!!!!! It is a legal process controlled and govened by regulating authorities.
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King Pair, what are the rules governing filing accounts with Companies House?
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King Pair, what are the rules governing filing accounts with Companies House?
Mongoose have exemption from filing detailed accounts due to the fact the qualify as a small company. The limited items they do file are due in September.
If they are in fact in Admin they will have no further duty to file such accounts. An outline of the financial position would be detailed in the Administrators report to creditors afer 8 weeks.
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Mongoose cricket limited which is based in Mary street taunton is this the correct mongoose or not ? if someone can confirm the directors i can give some information. Marcus Codrington Fernandez is the director of the above is this them.
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Mongoose cricket limited which is based in Mary street taunton is this the correct mongoose or not ? if someone can confirm the directors i can give some information. Marcus Codrington Fernandez is the director of the above is this them.
Affirmative.
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No accounts listed that i can see however they have substantial loss against the shareholders funds which could mean nothing, no ccj that i can see however there credit rating is low and I'm not sure i should commnet any further.
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Facts will come out soon enough no doubt.
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No accounts listed that i can see however they have substantial loss against the shareholders funds which could mean nothing, no ccj that i can see however there credit rating is low and I'm not sure i should commnet any further.
Low Credit Rating is always an interesting one as it often doesn't indicate anything. I know of a couple of large international companies with very bad credit ratings in the UK due to the company structure.
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from the info i have they are still a trading company according to companies house however looking at the company information for how much longer I'm not sure but not long id say, many many previous companies have all been closed down under the director and he is involved with marketing companies however there details are poor.
I certainly wouldn't offer them a credit account that's for sure so in my opinion not long left for them unless an investor comes in, the director wont lose anything though with the way its set up but as i said they are still trading according to companies house.
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Low Credit Rating is always an interesting one as it often doesn't indicate anything. I know of a couple of large international companies with very bad credit ratings in the UK due to the company structure.
Absolutely agree I work with at least 2 Multinationals (one of which being a VERY large Pharma company) that always come up as bad credit so this doesnt mean a lot. And as for the submitted accounts again think this one has been answered.
I hope this is a bit of twitter BS as I think it would be a shame to lose a company who are genuinly trying to bring innovation into our beloved Sport. :(
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Absolutely agree I work with at least 2 Multinationals (one of which being a VERY large Pharma company) that always come up as bad credit so this doesnt mean a lot. And as for the submitted accounts again think this one has been answered.
I hope this is a bit of twitter BS as I think it would be a shame to lose a company who are genuinly trying to bring innovation into our beloved Sport. :(
On a side note, it's quite an interesting thing to view the model they've followed. Tom is better placed than I am to comment, but it's certainly tricky to introduce such an innovative concept into such a conservative sport.
I wonder whether the average Joe cricketer playing on the average pitch finds it a bit too difficult to use an MMi3. I've certainly made my views known following my use of one.
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i am saddened to hear this news. . . . . .no what matter . . .Mongoose tried to introduce innovations into the game.. . . not a bad thing.
let me ask.. . . .we are into june . . .the season in full swing. . . .how many geese have you seen on the field of play. . . .i cant remember seeing one. . ..
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From a consumer viewpoint, most of my local cricket shops have sold out of the cor3 but I guess the mmi would be a tricky sell. On the whole they seem sought after and I'd imagine sales have been good. Whether sales are good enough to support the cost model is another matter.
Pure speculation but does anyone think one of the major players would snap up and incorporate the technology into their own bats?
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Ive never seen a goose of anykind
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one (in 6 games) - my team mate has one of the almost normal bat versions - bought from fordham sports.
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Over Trading, not managing the working capital well imo.
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I've seen relatively few. Mine was the only one at both sets of Winter nets I attended, which covered a total of 7 full teams.
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Haven't seen any in 7 Saturday league games this season, nor have I seen any in 7 Sunday games. Saw one on a Sunday last season.
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Pure speculation but does anyone think one of the major players would snap up and incorporate the technology into their own bats?
Without a doubt, you will see a big player buying the copyright to the technology. Cant see it being Newbery, as they dont seem to be as big a player outside of the UK, although with the private backing they may see it as a good option to become so.
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In my view the problem certainly wasn't sales in the UK, they are stocked everywhere and selling very well. And the MMi3 outsold the CoR3 massively last season.
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has to be cashflow problems
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In my view the problem certainly wasn't sales in the UK, they are stocked everywhere and selling very well. And the MMi3 outsold the CoR3 massively last season.
I can understand why, the MMi3 for most people is "mongoose" its pretty much what people would recognise the brand for. Infact people would say hes using a mongoose, when a player used a shorter blade bat. From talking to people in my club they felt that the CoR3 was just an add on, but all the real work went into the MMi3!
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Maybe paying too much to players
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Well Ian Blackwell has switched back to Puma half way through a season so surely that can't be a good sign?
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it's a tough market Mongoose are in
Never seen any in any club games i've played, lets hope it's not Woodworm mk2 for them...
Pieterson and Flintoff got paid big bucks to use the Woodworm brand and they could not re-coup the outlay in Sales
Tresco signing for Mongoose was a big surprise. I hope they survive myself-
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I heard woodworm would have been fine if they stuck to cricket but they cane unglued trying to crack the golf Market ??
Not long ago mongoose were tweeting about Blackwell so when did he switch back?
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i am saddened to hear this news. . . . . .no what matter . . .Mongoose tried to introduce innovations into the game.. . . not a bad thing.
let me ask.. . . .we are into june . . .the season in full swing. . . .how many geese have you seen on the field of play. . . .i cant remember seeing one. . ..
Ive seen 3 in League cricket 1 in a sunday friendly and 3 in T20 games this year. which is a lot more than I saw last year.
the Majority of these were the Corr model though
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Well Ian Blackwell has switched back to Puma half way through a season so surely that can't be a good sign?
Azhar Mahmood also switched last week to using H4L over mongoose
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I've also heard that they're not in a good way. Thought this might happen
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Just thought, Lou Vincent sub pro'd for us for 4 games at the start of this season, I will see if I can get hold of him and see what he knows.
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I've also heard that they're not in a good way. Thought this might happen
From what sources Colesy? Same as posted or different?
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Just talking with team mates. Don't think that it's hard to work out that Mongoose aren't the marketing machine they were last year and after all their efforts there isn't much to show.
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I have seen 3 used this year which is 2 more than last, having said that one of them was the same one that snapped in half against us last year! All three were in the same team as well so I assume they maybe had some contacts.
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Ive not seen a single mongoose used in our league in the last 2 seasons and i haven't seen any of there softs in any games either, from my personal opinion i can see it heading down a similar path to woodworm which disappoints me. Paying large amounts to professional players can have an adverse reaction on business and according to GM its largely responsible for the price of the goods on the shelf being as high as they are.
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6 people in our team have mongoose bats, mind you it's all of jimmy andersons gear, as his cousin and uncle play in the side! They seem Alryt, not bad to be selling them for £50 a piece!
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Tried to buy a CoR3 from Barringtons earlier. The stock picker told me that they didn't have what I ordered in stock, and that they were unable to order more. Make of that what you will.
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I've been told that for months. I think stores were allocated stock and that was it, no planned re-orders, or demand has sucked up supply. I'm not sure you can read much into it now it's mid June.
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I think as a clever sod i sure i told you all this about 10 months ago
I sure evenb people betted money with me about it as well and called my stupid..
infact where is the thread i need to see if anybody did bet with me
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I think as a clever sod i sure i told you all this about 10 months ago
I sure evenb people betted money with me about it as well and called my stupid..
infact where is the thread i need to see if anybody did bet with me
Been waiting for you to come back and say that Dave. I remember you mentioning it...
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One wonders whether the decision to move production away from Hunts County to "cheaper production" towards the end of last year has any relevance to the business' state and these rumours.
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I would say the oppposite. You would probably bet that they moved from Hunts to cheaper as they needed the cheaper production.
Still i wouldnt bet this will be the end of Mongoose, more a change of ownership. It certainly wont be the end of the technology and designs.
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I also wonder what the value of the IP is in a fire sale.
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I also wonder what the value of the IP is in a fire sale.
Is the IP really that valueable? Probably been discussed before but what is there to stop someone making similar bats?
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Is the IP really that valueable? Probably been discussed before but what is there to stop someone making similar bats?
Like this? http://www.24retail.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1086712
I suppose the key difference is how the handle is attached to the blade, so the "spliceless" nature of it, and the "ears".
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I also wonder what the value of the IP is in a fire sale.
This really will be interesting as in 5 years of working in insolvency I have never seen IP valued at anything but £1. It will largely depend on whether the valuing agent has any knowledge of the industry and what involvement the directors have in any resale.
I have no evidence what so ever for this and am purely speculating but I just have a sneaking suspicion there may be the chance of a pre-pack administration here.
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This really will be interesting as in 5 years of working in insolvency I have never seen IP valued at anything but £1. It will largely depend on whether the valuing agent has any knowledge of the industry and what involvement the directors have in any resale.
I have no evidence what so ever for this and am purely speculating but I just have a sneaking suspicion there may be the chance of a pre-pack administration here.
What is a "pre-pack administration"?
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Ian - read http://www.kermanco.com/site/library/resources/pre_packs_a_lesser_evil.html
i would guess that a pre-pack would be sensible in this case.
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It is essentially where a company going into administration is sold immediately upon appointment to an interrested party (commonly the previous directors acting on behalf of a "new" company).
The administrators would first have to go through a marketing process but sometimes this can be limited to a few parties. The company looses its creditors, buys the assets back at a low price and continues to trade under a different name.
Like I say, no evidence, just a possibility.
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Check out pinksheets dot com , the same system has been going on for decades over the water.
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possibly more than a possibility
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Ian - read [url]http://www.kermanco.com/site/library/resources/pre_packs_a_lesser_evil.html[/url]
i would guess that a pre-pack would be sensible in this case.
Thanks for the info Buzz, makes much more sense now
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If this was happening the marketing takes place pre-administration so I would imagine some of our forum sponsors would have benn offered the opportunity to purchase all or part of the company. If it was one of my cases that is where I would be pitching it anyway.
If done correctly, this would be the correct option to take for such a company (in my humble opinion)
Sure all will soon become clear.
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I use to work with printers and alot of them would go into administration, be declared bankrupt. The following day, a new company would then buy the assets and with a subtle name change continue trading as pretty much the same company. The main benefit was to offload debts and rebuy the assets at a knock down price.
Not saying this happens in cricket but could it happen to rid mongoose of sponsorships and overheads dragging the business down?
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I use to work with printers and alot of them would go into administration, be declared bankrupt. The following day, a new company would then buy the assets and with a subtle name change continue trading as pretty much the same company. The main benefit was to offload debts and rebuy the assets at a knock down price.
Not saying this happens in cricket but could it happen to rid mongoose of sponsorships and overheads dragging the business down?
Exactly what I'm talking about mate yeah.
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Someone is still tweeting from the Mongoose account so i guess someone is still working there
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As i said yesterday as far as i can see the company is still in operation but for how much longer i wouldn't like to say but from the info i have they are still around.
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What I like about what Mongoose have done so far is that they have hit the top of all search engines.
It is now open season "so to speak".
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What I like about what Mongoose have done so far is that they have hit the top of all search engines.
It is now open season "so to speak".
Are you sure? Tested 5 mins ago, lower on Bing, and there's nothing on the front pages of Alta Vista or Yahoo!, if anyone still uses those!
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/MongooseSearch.jpg)
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I'm sure if you did the same search for Puma you would not see a cricket bat.
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I'm sure if you did the same search for Puma you would not see a cricket bat.
And neither would I expect you to as Puma will most likely throw up the Puma brand, given it is a worldwide sports clothing, trainer and football type kit brand, rather than specifically cricket.
For info, this is the Google trending on Mongoose Cricket (orange), Puma Cricket (Red) and Reebok Cricket(blue).
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/CompareCricket.png)
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Which is which mate?
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Can you go back to April/May 2010?
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Can you go back to April/May 2010?
Yup, whole of 2010:
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/Compare3.png)
This is the URL. What's interesting is looking at the rankings by brand in the different countries.
http://www.google.co.uk/trends?q=Reebok+Cricket%2C+Puma+Cricket%2C+Mongoose+Cricket%2C&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2010&sort=2
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Any chance you can try googling Lekka ? (on all fronts)
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Interesting Reebok only surfaces during IPL periods!
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I'm suprised by the delight that other small (global) brands are taking in this news. I'd have thought if anything this example would be something to be concerned about, rather than being used as a tool to gloat and make accusations.
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Well least Tres seems to have a nice bat.
Does he ever use the MMi?
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I'm suprised by the delight that other small (global) brands are taking in this news. I'd have thought if anything this example would be something to be concerned about, rather than being used as a tool to gloat and make accusations.
Examples?
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Has this story died a death?
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yes, because there is no truth in it.