Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: sultanofswing on January 13, 2009, 11:07:56 PM
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Upon the retirement of Matty Hayden, hailed as the best ever opener by Justin Langer can i have your votes to who you think is the best ever.
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Hayden, by far he was the best statistically and changed the way openers play.
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what do you mean by statisticly the best?
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how many of us have seen herbert sutcliffe and len hutton play? and stats doesnt really make a big story since wickets have changed bats balls and the game itself
Ill have to say Sunil Gavaskar since he played in bothe eras of world cricket
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You cant discount people just becuase you havent seem them play! The idea was to ifnd the best opener ever regardless whether you have seem them or not. The only thing which can be ccurately used to measure is stats but event they are open to abuse due to the differing nature of pitches, attacks etc.
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ive gone haydos :)
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There is a minor error in the question here. Yes I agree that Hayden is the man BUT you must look at openers as a partnership because it makes the job of number three and down the order a lot easier if the opening partnership blunts the attack on a consistent basis. Hayden as the partnership master, with Langer for most of the time coming along for a very well contributed ride, did not just blunt attacks he bludgeoned them to death.
This turned into the test cricket revolution of teams scoring runs very quickly and destroying oppositions in quick test matches.
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Jack Hobbs for me.
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According to best ever cricket ratings:
2. L HUTTON
3. J HOBBS
10. HAYDEN
20. GAVASKAR
39. M.VAUGHAN
44. GOOCH
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Tbh guys like Gordon Grenich, Victor Trumper and Authur Morris deserve a mention.
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well you can vote for other and specify
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Personally I think Greenidge and Haynes were pretty good. I have to plump for Saeed Anwar STILL the World Record holder for the highest ODI score though I can see tht being broken in the very near future. Since his retirement Pakistan have become a joke at the top of the order.
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I think when Virender Sehwag retires his career will be up there with the best. Anyone else agree?
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No simple as! ha For me Hayden isnt in the same league as Gavaskar, Hobbs ect Will he be remembered in 20 to 30 years time? maybe for being the one who was out to the best infield catch ever or being hated but not as an batter for me
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GMHollins, why wouldn't Sehwag be remembered? This is a guy with 2 triple hundreds, the second being the fastest in Test history.
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I just get the feeling people wont mention him as one of the 'Greats' of the game the Bradman - Sobers - Richards ect catagory
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hayden has faced the best bowlers in the world and taken them all to the cleaners at some stage or another.
gavaskar would be no where near hayden if he faced the likes of shaun pollock, anil kumble, alan donald and muralitharan. not to mention hayden faced the likes of glen mcgrath, shan warne and brett lee everyday in the nets!
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i think the most successful opener of all time with no question is arul suppiah!
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Marcus Trescothick, any form of the game
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sehwag has his ups and downs but what about the great tendulkar , he sometimes opens?
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i changed my mind, i think the greatest has got to be neil edwards!
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hayden has faced the best bowlers in the world and taken them all to the cleaners at some stage or another.
gavaskar would be no where near hayden if he faced the likes of shaun pollock, anil kumble, alan donald and muralitharan. not to mention hayden faced the likes of glen mcgrath, shan warne and brett lee everyday in the nets!
Keep dreaming pal. Bowlers like Jeff Thomson, Imran Khan, Malcolm Marshall are up there with any of the bowlers that Hayden faced.
Hayden's lucky to be mentioned in the same breath as Sunny Gavaskar.
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That's a good joke!
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hayden has faced the best bowlers in the world and taken them all to the cleaners at some stage or another.
gavaskar would be no where near hayden if he faced the likes of shaun pollock, anil kumble, alan donald and muralitharan. not to mention hayden faced the likes of glen mcgrath, shan warne and brett lee everyday in the nets!
You know very little about cricket, you poor ignorant little boy.
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These questions always end up getting a little personal don't they.
Gavaskar and Hayden were somewhat different styles of openers who did not set the world alight in there first few tests. Hayden did revolutionise opening (with the help of Langer of course) and in many innings made that great West Indian opening partnership of Greenidge and Haynes look pedestrian.
Howver Gavaskar's career had many negative points including the infamous walkoff in Melbourne in the 80/81 series when he didn't like an umpire's decsion.
Hayden was brutal all all types of wickets. In fact watching Hayden walk at quality fast bowlers on a flirty wicket ranks as the greatest sight I have seen in cricket.
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Art - it's nice of you to mention the blemishes on Gavaskar's cv, but there are alot more high points than low points.
You just have to look at Gavaskar's stats for his debut series in the West Indies. 773 runs at an average of 154.80 (including 4 hundreds (also scoring twin hundreds at Port of Spain) and 3 50's) against a fearsome pace attack. The runs aggregate by Gavaskar in that series remains a record for a debutant.
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Ah yes the blemishes. Cricket is an interesting game and I have always admired those who worked within the Laws and Rules to take an advantage.
Jardine with leg side theory, brilliant and within the laws and Rules. Chappell with the underarm at a crucial time, absolutely wonderful. I could never understand why Australians howled in protest when Grout and benaud appealed after Joe Solomn's cap fell on his wicket in Melbourne, he was out plain and simple. Cricket has never been a fair game to say the least. Spofforth for bringing in the stare and fast bowling to a new high. The great West Indies fast bowlers who never gave you an inch did it (mostly) within the known and accepted boundaries. (Although I remember one match where as I walking at the bowler he passed me before letting go. One of the all time biggest West Indian no balls)
However Gavaskar did leave the field with his batting partner because he thought he was not out. He disregarded the sanctity of the umpire's decision for benefit. And to top that instead of calling the match off they 'negotiated' with him and the match went on (for an Indian win). That blemish and a few recent ones off the field in journalism deminish greatly his repuation in my eyes. I can accept most things in cricket but that performance damned him forever in my eyes.
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Marcus Trescothick. End off.
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Ah yes the blemishes. Cricket is an interesting game and I have always admired those who worked within the Laws and Rules to take an advantage.
Jardine with leg side theory, brilliant and within the laws and Rules. Chappell with the underarm at a crucial time, absolutely wonderful. I could never understand why Australians howled in protest when Grout and benaud appealed after Joe Solomn's cap fell on his wicket in Melbourne, he was out plain and simple. Cricket has never been a fair game to say the least. Spofforth for bringing in the stare and fast bowling to a new high. The great West Indies fast bowlers who never gave you an inch did it (mostly) within the known and accepted boundaries. (Although I remember one match where as I walking at the bowler he passed me before letting go. One of the all time biggest West Indian no balls)
However Gavaskar did leave the field with his batting partner because he thought he was not out. He disregarded the sanctity of the umpire's decision for benefit. And to top that instead of calling the match off they 'negotiated' with him and the match went on (for an Indian win). That blemish and a few recent ones off the field in journalism deminish greatly his repuation in my eyes. I can accept most things in cricket but that performance damned him forever in my eyes.
Think of it as you like, going on stats alone he's the best. He also never had a decent opening parter, so he knew he had to perform, otherwise his side would be under pressure.
Hardly the same for Hayden, the likes of Slater, the Waughs, Ponting, Martyn, Langer, Gilchrist etc in his line up at various times of his career. He had it much easier.
Marcus Trescothick. End off.
What rubbish. He wasn't even the best opener in his era, let alone the best ever.
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Interesting view Jeet and one I will take on board. I always believed that Ponting etc had an easy time because the openers set things up so well.
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Of all the players I've seen(since the early 90s), I'd have to pick Matthew Hayden. Like many have said, he dominated bowling attacks around the world and dealt with them with such brutality. He has changed the way the modern day opener plays the game.
Of all the openers I've read about, I'd have to say Barry Richards. To score more than 500 runs in your first test series (4 matches) against an in-form Aussie side is not easy by any means. He was only 24 at the time. I also remember reading that his first ton came only an hour after lunch on the first day!!
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Interesting view Jeet and one I will take on board. I always believed that Ponting etc had an easy time because the openers set things up so well.
Yeah you are also correct Art, in that Hayden often paved the way for the rest of his line up to express themselves, but Australia could probably still rack up big scores even if Hayden fell early.
On the other hand, when Gavaskar played for India, the opposition knew if they got Gavaskar early, India could be rolled for next to nothing.
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has to be geoff
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i wud have piked justin langer otherwise
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Sachin Tendulkar!
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I have always admired Marcus Trescothick and Saeed Anwar because their shots are/were so classy and a joy to watch. Gotta love those cuts and drives!
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Marcus Trescothick, no question.
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Marcus Trescothick, no question.
Agreaed love that shout liam !
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its a real a shame he suffers from mental illness otherwise im sure he would still be in the national setup. Of course some illnesses are really helpful in cricket; im bipolar and when I have my mood swings I dont shut up on the field, its great!
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hutton for me
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Another vote for Greenidge
Can't possibly vote for Boycott or Gooch
Boycott for playing so selfishly and for his cowardice in avoiding the fastest bowlers of the mid 70s
Gooch for going on a tour to SA and for his attitude towards selecting Gower in the early 90s
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Trescothick
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Marcus Trescothick, no question.
Got in there before I did :(
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I loved athertons dogged determination such as the classic innings again alan donald.
However I suppose it depends on era, trescothick and hayden i would out on a level as they are/were fantastically destructive batsmen in their day.
Liam
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I am sorry but as good as Trescothic is there is a little west country bias going on. Tresco is a wonderful player, but not in the same league as Hobbs who opened the batting on uncovered pitches all over the world.
Ask yourself how many first class hundreds a player has scored - and then compare that to Jack Hobbs.
http://www.cricinfo.com/england/content/player/14225.html
test match average of 56 in the days when 35 was a good average (not like now when 45 is a good average)
197 first class hundred, with none in his peak during the first world war.
The first cricketer to get a Knighthood for services to sport.
the finest opening batsman of all time.
I will nod to Sehwag as the most exilerating opening batsman of the modern era, but that doesn't make him the best... Tresco isn't in the top ten.
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Gordon Greenidge / Desmond Haynes. . .
Absolute class
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I know someone who played alongside Geoffry Boycott. He said Geoffry was one of the most analytical and strategic players he could read almost all bowlers and was a good stroke maker however he did not tell team mates etc anything as he wanted the runs. A greedy selfish player Geoffry but I give credit where credit is due he was a good stroke maker setting aside his personality.
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I know someone who played alongside Geoffry Boycott. He said Geoffry was one of the most analytical and strategic players he could read almost all bowlers and was a good stroke maker however he did not tell team mates etc anything as he wanted the runs. A greedy selfish player Geoffry but I give credit where credit is due he was a good stroke maker setting aside his personality.
I call those people c*cks :) :)
so selfish! If true...
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Oh that story about Sir Geoff is true - i have heard him tell it!!
I think that is part of the reason now he tries to foist his opinion on the current players - which has really irritated a few of them. MPV used to hate it...
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It appears that Simon Hughes rates Goochie rather highly as the best ever English opener...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/7964335/England-v-Pakistan-Alastair-Cook-and-Andrew-Strauss-can-rewrite-record-books.html
Contrast though, the intimidating bowlers Graham Gooch and Mike Atherton had to face.
The characters belong more to a Scorsese movie – Ambrose, Marshall, Walsh, Patterson, Hadlee, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, McGrath. Kapil Dev was an absolute pleasure by comparison.
Managing to achieve an average opening partnership of 56.84 against various combinations of that lot is almost worthy of a St George medal.
They achieved with courage, no little skill and total bloody mindedness. Not surprisingly the pair have one of the lowest win ratios of England opening partnerships. No wonder they both sometimes wear the hunted look.
Gooch's tally of 8,900 Test runs (ave 42) in the 20 years when opposition fast bowling was at its absolute apex gives him bragging rights over any other English batsman.
Hughes finishes by saying... (talking about English openers only)
Where does that leave the debate then? In the end it depends what you want from your opening pair. If it is security, go for Atherton and Gooch. For victory – Strauss and Trescothick.
For consistency – Hobbs and Sutcliffe. Regardless of what Cook and Strauss achieve this week, the old masters retain their supremacy. But the list also throws up one other surprise.
All England's top opening pairs (and the prolific ones from other countries) bat the same way round.
Who says that right-hand/left-hand is the perfect opening combination?
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I forgot about Goochie, started against Lillee and Thommo finished against Wasim and Waqar with 4 West Indians, Hadlee, raging turners in Indian/Pakistan inbetween!.
If you know of a better knock than his 151* at Headingley v the Windies, on a typical dodgy headingley track i'd love you to tell me. How about his ton in the World Cup Semi in 87' - swept the Indians to distraction on a raging turner. He was outstanding in all forms of the game.
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i think, virender sehwag is the best opener. so i vote the other please specify.... ;)