Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: thecord on July 28, 2011, 12:13:53 AM
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Possibly filling in as 1st team captain this week as both skipper and vice are away. Having exchanged a few emails about availability and selection I was somewhat surprised to be told by the 2nd team skipper that I could not have anyone from his team >:(
I was always under the impression that a clubs 1st XI took priority, then 2nd and so on and so forth. This has left me pretty pissed off and wondering how selection is handled at other clubs and if anyone has encountered such a ridiculous situation before?
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We have a hierarchical structure although some decisions don't make sense at all.
Unusual for your 2s skipper to decline you players though.
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Yea I am pretty much raging at the moment. It is not exactly helpful when you are trying to get yourselves out of relegation trouble and half of your best team aren't available!
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Is he trying it on as your not the usual captain.
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Surley there is a selection chairman? I would bypass the second grade skipper and go straight to his players, let them know if they refuse it won't be viewed favourably next time and just take who you want. Is it possible they are looking at finals maybe and need to win?
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At our place, I will ask a normal second team player to play for us, he will agree, then bitch about it on Facebook. That seems to be the way people do stuff these days.
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Isn't the goal to move up to playing 1st's anyway?
I'd be happy with the promotion.
All our teams feed up to 1st's.
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two legs? can operate without Labrador for most of time? using a bat sourced from the forum?..... You're in!
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As long as the player gets a go ie if they come up as a batsmen or bowler then thats how they get used there should be no problems.If clubs bring up players and stick them at 11 and not bowl them it bcomes an issue.
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Possibly filling in as 1st team captain this week as both skipper and vice are away. Having exchanged a few emails about availability and selection I was somewhat surprised to be told by the 2nd team skipper that I could not have anyone from his team >:(
I was always under the impression that a clubs 1st XI took priority, then 2nd and so on and so forth. This has left me pretty pissed off and wondering how selection is handled at other clubs and if anyone has encountered such a ridiculous situation before?
You cannot really fault the 2nd team skipper as he has a team to work with where it is clear that your 1st team skipper and vice skips priorities lay elsewhere ?
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You cannot really fault the 2nd team skipper as he has a team to work with where it is clear that your 1st team skipper and vice skips priorities lay elsewhere ?
Hardly, I can assure you second team skipper has missed more weeks this year than 1st and at no stage been told by our 3rd team skipper that he can't touch anyone in their side
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As long as the player gets a go ie if they come up as a batsmen or bowler then thats how they get used there should be no problems.If clubs bring up players and stick them at 11 and not bowl them it bcomes an issue.
Fair point. Any players called up this week would be batsmen and bat in the top 6 so not really an issue.
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I had to fill in for my skipper last week so know how you feel.
At my club we have 5 teams, so all 5 skippers meet on a tuesday night and pick the sides. it pretty much goes that the 1st team takes the 11 he wants, 2nd team skipper next and so on. With the lower teams there tends to be a bit of negotiating to get a better balance. We also have a "chairman of selectors" who rules on any disputes. In reality he's an old fella whos been involved in the club snice the dawn of time and likes to be involved. Can be quite a good influence on the younger skippers to give them some advice on how they should balance their teams betters etc
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Hardly, I can assure you second team skipper has missed more weeks this year than 1st and at no stage been told by our 3rd team skipper that he can't touch anyone in their side
Looks like the problem runs deeper then. This should all be remembered when it comes to the club AGM end of season and the selecting of 2012 skippers.
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Sounds like Ian has exactly the same set-up as our club!!
Our 2nd team cant go any higher until our 1st go up a div, our 4ths are really struggling have got promoted last season so they are trying to find their level and the 3rds are pushing for promotion themselves so alot of negotiating goes on at selection for the lower teams.....1st team gets pick of whoever they want though
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Our captains and the team secretary meet up on a tuesday after nets for selection. I think 1st pretty much gets who they want, but as 2nd team have won 6 in a row after losing their first 4 their skipper is quite eager to keep the same side. I know that because of this a 1/2's player who hasn't been available for a while is in the 3's this week and isn't best pleased.
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on a tuesday night
1st team skipper and vice
2nd team skipper and vice
chariman of selectors.
1st team get pick of who ever they want 2nds have whats left. obv some discussions to take place
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Been a 3rd XI captain and dealt directly with the 1s captain on many occasions!
Here's my 15 years of selection experience. Alot of clubs start getting polictical and make up reasons not to take player xyz, and even whole teams. Eventually you shoot yourself in the foot and piss someone off, as you can only so long go on about "key players","balance" etc. Imho the only way to select teams is on merit, as it's far easier to tell a person he isn't good enough or he's one of the best xi in your club than any other bull story.
If you have a selection committee, go to the chairman and explain what you have been told. Get the chairman/Head of Cricket/Selection to then tell the 2nd XI Captain to pull his finger out and help you. Don't go directly to his players, chances are they are good mates with the 2nd XI Captain and will just as unhelpful. The overiding principle is the 1st XI Captain has first pick of all players in the club otherwise it's not a 1st XI - don't feel afraid to tell everyone that, before and after the game.
My club has a Sat League XI, Sunday XI, Midweek XI. The best team possible is picked in the Sat League XI, the rest are given a game Sunday. If you don't make yourself available for both you (ie saturday only) you run the risk of not getting a game.If you are available both days then you always get a game, sometimes two. Everyone knows the rules and we get very few grumbles. We are thinking of getting a Sat 2nd XI for next season so things may get more tricky then.
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Our selection committee meet on a Sunday night and the 1st XI get the best 11 players available - simples :D
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Our skippers sometimes meet but not always as 1st xi skipper is really poor but he gets pick of the club but as a fair few won't play for him he usually just brings anyone in who will play
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out selection doesnt work.
we have 2 teams. 1st pick everyone they can. brief discussion between 1st and 2nds. 2nds pick theirs. 1sts steal a couple from the 2nds when a few guys arent available. 2nds moan and give us colts who havent played much. if players pull out the night before etc same happens. 1sts get a 14 year old who can field only. Not beneficial for the 1sts or the colt as its hard to give them much of a game.
we have discussed using a selection meeting but its hard to arrange with captains when most people have other things to do in the evenings
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5 teams, 1st choose their team, then seconds and 3rds, as their is not a big gap in terms of our 4ths and 5ths thats where most of the negotiation takes place, it is harder than it should be to get into the 4ths because the captain normally picks his mates
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It doesn't work at our club.
We have 2 teams, 1st team have a 'squad' if you like of 12. Only 1 game this year have we had out strongest team out. Normally we have 8/9 of that 12 available, so the phone call goes to the second team skipper who gives us the under 15's.
There are so many players in the second team that should be playing first, but prefer to play seconds as it easy to hit runs.
Team selection is something I'm dreading if I am made first team captain next year.
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we have a selection committee chaired by our cricket manager and attended by all team captains. I'm lead to believe there is also a formal selection policy, which has guidelines on how teams should be picked - for example, the policy states that the 1st XI will always pick the strongest possible team, so no loaning players to the 2's for key matches. However, to paraphrase Mark Waugh, you have to remember the best team isn't necessarily the best 11 players.
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It doesn't work at our club.
We have 2 teams, 1st team have a 'squad' if you like of 12. Only 1 game this year have we had out strongest team out. Normally we have 8/9 of that 12 available, so the phone call goes to the second team skipper who gives us the under 15's.
There are so many players in the second team that should be playing first, but prefer to play seconds as it easy to hit runs.
Team selection is something I'm dreading if I am made first team captain next year.
mirror image of ours. Its good to see we arent the only ones! Thats one reason i wont be captain. the other is no one does teas so i dont want to spend every saturday morning preparing for the game by making sarnies!
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In Leinster players are subject to union registrations which makes for alot of fun and games when clubs select players for the next months registrations form.
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quite reassuring to see that we are not the only club that has issues with this. Really feel like the 1st XI should always have the choice of players. Think it is worth bringing up at our agm as suggested. I have calmed down now at least tho!
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Selection happens on a Tuesday after senior training. The following people attend:
- 1st XI C & VC
- 2nd XI C & VC
- 3rd XI C & VC
- Impartial Member (to write down etc)
1st XI chose the team they want first. Then 2nds, and finally what's left the 3rds get. Then the excuses forp layers only being able to play seconds because they are playing at home etc come out! Then about 3 changes happen before Saturday, and the 3rds end up with the drabs!
A team I used to play for in Leeds used to have a system whereby if you didn't bat above a certain position (and you were a batsmen) or you didn't bowl (and your a bowler) for two weeks then the next week you could play for the team below and open the batting for example.
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Our selection is after Tuesday training, & is attended by the four captains, the Club Chairman & the Selection Chairman.
We always pick our strongest teams. To be honest most of the selection drama comes from the 3rd & Sunday teams. (3rds because it may mean dropping someone & them not getting a game at all & Sundays because getting the balance between developing young players/having a strong enough team to actually win)
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We only have 2 teams at our club and it is done very clearly on "1st team get best, you get the rest" idea. There are about 14 "1st teamers" so if all 14 are available the 2nds get the other 3, however if less than 11 of them are available then the best 2nd team players are called up. Which means that our 1st team is doing very well however out 2nds are really struggling with the massive differences in ability the team has from one week to the next..
However the 1st team are in a position where they can't go down, and the lack of facilities mean they can't go up so hopefully some of them should drop down to the 2nd's and help us out of relegation.
Very strange for the 2nd team skipper to straight out refuse you any players, usually captains atleast try to compromise to get the best outcome for the club.
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@ LCC it was straight (ish) forward. All skips would goto the selection meeting on a Tuesday evening with their teams already selected based on registrations. This was changed as the skipper of the 6ths eleven may have had an issue with a 1st team player and wanted to hold court. Now it is split (afaik) to a split selection commitee. As the club had 6 or 7 teams at the time it was easy as 1sts , 3rds and 5ths played on a saturday and the other sides played sunday.
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lucky you havent met our stroppy git of a second team skipper then lol. he thinks he should be 1sts when he isnt good enough and then thinks the 2nd team should be stronger than the first when hes skipper lol. nice guy after the game though if he wins
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Our selection is held between captains of the 1st, 2nd and 3rds as well as the 2 Sunday captains, the chairman of selectors and the club secretary.
The 1st XI always has the pick of the players and has been virtually unchanged this season. 2nds have whatever they want and the 3rds and 4ths is negotiated to give the right balance of ability, experience, youth and transport.
Sundays is usually about managing to get 2 teams on the pitch, regardless of ability.
In essence though everything is geared towards giving the 1st team the best chance, and thats exactly how it should be.
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At our club the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th team skippers meet after training on a Tuesday night and select the teams. First team skipper picks first and so on.
Then on the Friday night, a first teamer will usually drop out causing huge problems for all other teams.
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our previous 1s captain picked who he wanted with no regard for who/how many that left to go into the 2s & 3s. He also failed to check properly that all those selected for the 1s were actually available in the first place, leading to several incidents of nabbing 2s players on the morning of the game, the knock on effect being the 3s would be left short with not enough time to find replacements. This, I think, led to a certain degree of animosity between the teams.
When taking over the job I decided to personally ensure we always had enough every week, and then pick teams jointly with 2s captain. We are fortunate in that the 3s captain is happy to have whatever team we've picked for him, but he knows we make the effort to ensure his team isnt absurdly weak (not always possible).
If anyone drops out they tell me, and I find a replacement, or ensure one is found. It saves tooing and froing between captains, lots of people asking around then finding we've got too many, or asking the same person twice etc....
Not an ideal system, but we dont have the luxury of a vast squad, so we cant really say to people "if you dont tell us by Tuesday, you havent got a game" because we'd end up cancelling half our 3s games!
(An indication of what a struggle this years been for players is that our 2s skipper has played more in the 1s than the 2s this year...)
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Slightly off topic but another one is "Who collects tea money from the players from all the teams and then hands those collected funds to the main Tea Money Man ?"
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the first spotty teenager who is unfortunate enough to catch your eye in the changing room
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the first spotty teenager who is unfortunate enough to catch your eye in the changing room
tried that, but our spotty teenagers take the money and it on Natch and Pork Scratchings....
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Slightly off topic but another one is "Who collects tea money from the players from all the teams and then hands those collected funds to the main Tea Money Man ?"
The current club secretary(Stepped down from captaincy last year to improve his batting) plays for us so he usually collects the money.
I'm the only teenager in the team most weeks but they know if they gave the money to me it would "disappear" :P
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Slightly off topic but another one is "Who collects tea money from the players from all the teams and then hands those collected funds to the main Tea Money Man ?"
Person with the lowest score collects the tea money...
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Each player brings a plate with them.
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Slightly off topic but another one is "Who collects tea money from the players from all the teams and then hands those collected funds to the main Tea Money Man ?"
First drop or first duck usually collects the subs in my side
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Then on the Friday night, a first teamer will usually drop out causing huge problems for all other teams.
Or sometimes a saturday morning, that even more fun!
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i have to do ours as vice captain but have introduced the lowest score rule as of last saturday as i got fed up of people throwing money at me after the game!
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atleast they pay, some times its like getting blood from a stone. they either disappear home or into the bar for a drink then havent got enough! same old excuses from the same people though
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We all give ours to the team captain, always on a saturday have 1 or 2 who don't have the money, this week it was ridiculous one kid found a tenner in his bag and instead of paying went to william hill when we were batting so come the end of the game had no money
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There is no selection policy at my club, though I tend to find myself batting at 6 and waiting 35 of 40 overs watching the top order concentrate more on not getting out than getting runs, then someone playing their first game of the season tends to always get the number 3 spot, hit a boundary and then get out.
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At our club....shockingly so if you are over 40 and a friend of the skipper you play!
the younger members get picked if they are short but failing that the 1st XI who struggle most years are holding up the 2nd XI as cannot be put in same league
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At our club....shockingly so if you are over 40 and a friend of the skipper you play!
the younger members get picked if they are short but failing that the 1st XI who struggle most years are holding up the 2nd XI as cannot be put in same league
Wouldn't say we are that bad but there is a certain amount of, erm, age discrimination in our ones. Average age for one game this year was over 40! Hopefully things will improve next year as we have three or four under 19s who are now ready to step up permanently.
Biggest issue we have though is our threes - at one stage there were XI who refused to step up. Which is never fine, especially when they were playing very poor standard cricket and mugging silly scores each week!