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General Cricket => World Cricket => Australia => Topic started by: 100 not out on September 05, 2011, 10:04:13 PM
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The recent win against SL suggests they are. . .what do u think??
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no
there still average no real spinner and the seam/swing department looks week
good result mind
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The recent win against SL suggests they are. . .what do u think??
No chance.
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Aus would not have won it mendis was playing instead of randiv
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I think if SL had won the toss and batted first they would've won.
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Long way to go, but they are heading in the right direction.
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good signs of improvement especially in team spirit and fighting spirit and good old punter seems to be finding some form again and enjoying his cricket lets hope Clarky can score some more runs and with Watto firing away again we should be half way there!!!
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no
there still average no real spinner and the seam/swing department looks week
good result mind
I disagree completely. Nathan Lyons (and Hauritz, for that matter!) are both better spinners than Paul Harris of South Africa (just as a comparison) and I expect both to hold their own in test cricket, much like Hauritz has already done. And Watson, Johnson, Harris, J Pattinson, Copeland, etc. Look very strong. I think they'll be a decent side, without being the top 3 (for lack of batting in the next few years after Huss and Punter go).
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It pains me to say so, but I think they are on the up too!
They seem to always produce some decent quality cricketers although I am doubtful whether they will ever have the same level teams as in the 90s! They were just exceptional!!
Just hope England win a couple more Ashes before Aus come back again! After all, we've put up with years of being humiliated so would be nice for Aus to know how we felt for a couple more years! ;)
Seriously, I reckon they are never going to be easy to beat!
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Where did this thread come from?
This is pretty much the same side that England towelled in Australia. everyone in that side played and was dominated by England, accept Lyon who even then is not change alot, he averages 40 odd in FC cricket...oh and Copeland, but he wont play outside the sub continent anyway.
Australia will always be decent and be a top 3-4 nation but if England maintain there form Australia would be doing well to win a test over a 5 match series against them. Englands batters have the ability to bat long periods and australia lack the real strike power (unless they get early wickets).
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i think its too early to say. good signs in them winning (especially away from home) but youd think they need to put a consistent run together with a consistent side (no injuries and no chopping and changing of players after bad games etc)
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Are we potentially underplaying the fact the Sri Lanka are on the wane.
No Murali, Vaas or Malinga and Sanga is having a barren run of form.
In my eyes that only leaves Mahela Jayawardene as the only functioning proven world-class test player in their line up at the moment.
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I think the selectors have got the right way about rebuilding the side, young players like Khawaja, Copeland and Lyon are being rewarded for consistancy in FC cricket. I'd like to see Maddinson groomed as a future opener so they can put hughes out of his misery.
Having watched so much cricket when I was over there and seen the player base, I can't see the reason why the Aussies cant be a force in world cricket within 2-3 years.
The good thing is the varying ages, there isnt going to be 4-5 players retiring at the same stage. The age factor can only be the reason why Katich was so harshly treated, I cant understand why you would do such a thing to their most consistent player over the last 3 years.
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I think the selectors have got the right way about rebuilding the side, young players like Khawaja, Copeland and Lyon are being rewarded for consistancy in FC cricket. I'd like to see Maddinson groomed as a future opener so they can put hughes out of his misery.
Having watched so much cricket when I was over there and seen the player base, I can't see the reason why the Aussies cant be a force in world cricket within 2-3 years.
The good thing is the varying ages, there isnt going to be 4-5 players retiring at the same stage. The age factor can only be the reason why Katich was so harshly treated, I cant understand why you would do such a thing to their most consistent player over the last 3 years.
Em, How has Lyon been picked on consistency in FC cricket when he only played 4 FC games before the tour?
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The chairman of selectors was dumped and so were a few others, so there has been a clean sweep of the top people and now some fresh blood is in the team. Were Hilditch still there the team would be in bigger s**t than what they are in now, he had no idea over the last year or two, so it's good that he is gone and now the young players will get a go.
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Em, How has Lyon been picked on consistency in FC cricket when he only played 4 FC games before the tour?
I assume he means domestic cricket (a lot of people use FC and Domestic interchangeably), in which case, he'd be spot on, because Lyons bowled superbly in the T20s alongside Rashid.
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Are we potentially underplaying the fact the Sri Lanka are on the wane.
No Murali, Vaas or Malinga and Sanga is having a barren run of form.
In my eyes that only leaves Mahela Jayawardene as the only functioning proven world-class test player in their line up at the moment.
But Australia don't have Shane Warne and Steve Waugh either...haha
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Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist, Lee, Waugh, Langer, Hayden - Ponting in all sorts same with Clarke, so I wouldn't think they can use that.
Also good that the captain of Australia is now a selector too, before they really had no say in the matter
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The short answer is YES!
But not because they beat Sri Lanka...that has nothing to with it.
England will win the next Asjes series and probably the one after that too, but behind the scenes here, Australia is regenerating inspite of itself.
Let's start with the fast bowlers - because they are the ones who win matches:
James Pattinson 21 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/272465.html
Josh Hazelwood 20 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/288284.html
Mitchell Starc 21 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/311592.html
Patrick Cummins 18 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/489889.html
They are all excellent with the stand out being the youngest of the quartet, Paddy Cummins who last summer as a 17 year old blew away top orders with his 90-95mph outswingers and inswingers and sharp bounce from his 6'5" frame. Has an identical bowling action to Dale Steyn who is evidently his idol...but he bowls faster than Steyn.
AT 23 Lyon will be persisted with as the spinner.
Timmy Paine (26) will keep:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/7252.html
As for batsmen, we are not dead yet! The following will all play sooner rather than later:
Callum Ferguson (26):
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/5236.html
Mitch Marsh 19 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/272450.html
Nic Maddinson 19 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/333780.html
Chris Lynn 21 years old:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/326637.html
Throw in Usman Khawaja (23), Phil Hughes (22) and Steven Smith (22) and we are not dead yet by a long shot.
My guess is that in about 3-4 years time we will start hitting our stride as this group of players hit that 22-28 age bracket from oldest to youngest and we will give everybody a run for their money.
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Which begs the question as to whether we are entering a period where an individual country won't dominate cricket in the way that formerly the Windies and Australia have...?
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If aus want to move forward they may forget about Steve Smith. The most overrated player in the world
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How good would it be if every country was competitive.. How great would it be to watch
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And also I think Warner would make a great opener in Subcontinent conditions. He would do a Sehwag/Dilshan job. He First Class record has been good so far in state cricket/Aus A
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Which begs the question as to whether we are entering a period where an individual country won't dominate cricket in the way that formerly the Windies and Australia have...?
Tim . .certainly the gap has narrowed between the teams. Aussies dominated in all forms too . . . .not just tests. . . . .lets see if England can do it.
i think world cricket needs a strong Australian side. on another note i am suprised and impressed by Zimbabwe, i rate them better than Bangladesh.
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And also I think Warner would make a great opener in Subcontinent conditions. He would do a Sehwag/Dilshan job. He First Class record has been good so far in state cricket/Aus A
what about Mark Cosgrove??? i think he likes too many pies. . . . . .could Brad Hodge make a comeback. . . .how old is he???
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what about Mark Cosgrove??? i think he likes too many pies. . .
Looks like he has been stung by a bee
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i think world cricket needs a strong Australian side. on another note i am suprised and impressed by Zimbabwe, i rate them better than Bangladesh.
Bangladesh are a disgrace to test cricket. There is no fight in them and they are all talk no action. I admire the fight and spirit of Zimbabwe. They deserve to play tests and they were unlucky again Pakistan that they dropped 6 catches as it cost them the match. But they will learn
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Off what bits I've been watching, Australia are starting to look good. Not as good as they were back when they whipped England 5 nil, or the Ashes prior to that, but they are slowly improving and bringing through some exciting young talent. In the next few years they'll become a real force. Right now they'll still win more than they'll lose, but in a few years I think they could enter another period of dominance if all their talent adapts and develops at the top level.
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Em, How has Lyon been picked on consistency in FC cricket when he only played 4 FC games before the tour?
He also played all the big bash, was obviously consistent enough in that....
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The fast bowling pool looks very promising, I watched Pat Cummins last season and he bowls rockets for an 18 year old. Other young quicks such as James Pattinson, Ben Cutting and Josh Hazlewood will give competition to the current group. Exciting times ahead
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Ok - so the selectors have gone for what I think is a relitively balanced team for the first test against india
Ed Cowan, David Warner, Shaun Marsh, Ricky Ponting, Michael Clarke (capt), Michael Hussey, Brad Haddin, Peter Siddle, James Pattinson, Ben Hilfenhaus, Nathan Lyon with Daniel Christian and Mitchell Starc on the bench.
personally I think this is a decent team - with a good mix of youth and experience. Cowan is 28, in form and pretty experienced - which is idea for a debutant - Hughes and Usman have been dropped - which also seems fair on form. It may be that Ponting has until Watson is fit to get runs - so he knows the pressure is on.
One prediction is that Langer would say that Usman should be playing unstead of ponting !!! ;)
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Seems stupid to me to drop Hughes and Khawaja, arent they the future of australia ? Can hardly see Ed Cowan dominating test match cricket for years to come.
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Ben Hilfenhaus lol - didn't know the Indians wanted some net practise :D
Rumour has it Daniel Christian will play - Ponting for the chop? Would dropped Ponting for Usman, lad has some promise and needs time.
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Seems stupid to me to drop Hughes and Khawaja, arent they the future of australia ? Can hardly see Ed Cowan dominating test match cricket for years to come.
And Hughes can???
Ok - so the selectors have gone for what I think is a relitively balanced team for the first test against india
Ed Cowan, David Warner, Shaun Marsh, Ricky Ponting, Michael Clarke (capt), Michael Hussey, Brad Haddin, Peter Siddle, James Pattinson, Ben Hilfenhaus, Nathan Lyon with Daniel Christian and Mitchell Starc on the bench.
personally I think this is a decent team - with a good mix of youth and experience. Cowan is 28, in form and pretty experienced - which is idea for a debutant - Hughes and Usman have been dropped - which also seems fair on form. It may be that Ponting has until Watson is fit to get runs - so he knows the pressure is on.
One prediction is that Langer would say that Usman should be playing unstead of ponting !!! ;)
Haha, you know it ;)
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Pontings got hit on his right index finger off a ball from Pattinson, so may be on some doubt, which I like lol ;)
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I wouldnt say the aussies are on the way up...they just lost to the kiwis
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Like a few of the International teams, Australia are searching for their best XI and can see it being a while before they are on the way back up. I have no doubt Khawaja will go back into FC cricket and force his way back in with big scores. Shaun Marsh is the risk for me, he can't seem to stay on the field for more than 2 games. I would have gone for Mitchell Marsh instead of Christian, he has had some exposure to Int'l cricket and done reasonably well. As for the spinning option, how Steve O'Keefe doesn't get a shout is beyond me
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Actually I like the selection of Cowan - its all well and good to go for "youth" all the time, but there is a classic saying along the lines of "if you're good enough you're old enough" which also works in reverse - "if you're good enough, you're young enough".
Well, Cowan's first class record is good and he has looked solid when I've seen him - he played well, for example, in the second dig against England last year for the A side. And 28 is hardly ancient - Hussey was older than that when he made his debut...
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Cowan is still younger than the spineless tampon Marsh. Better batsman too.
Ponting has to go..... Worst case scenario is he scores some runs and secures himself another two year golfing tour.
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I remember Cowan when he was playing for Sydney Uni, he scored massive runs and couldn't get a run in for the Blues. Since going to Tassie, he's scored heavily for them and Australia A, it's a little like England's old philosophy of picking players after 5-6 years of FC cricket
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I remember Cowan when he was playing for Sydney Uni, he scored massive runs and couldn't get a run in for the Blues. Since going to Tassie, he's scored heavily for them and Australia A, it's a little like England's old philosophy of picking players after 5-6 years of FC cricket
I figure there are two types of Test player - the ones who everyone can see from an early age are special - Ian Bell, for example - and the ones who are part of a mass of good youngsters, where it takes a few years in First Class cricket to sort the wheat from the chaff - in all cases, a balance is useful...
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I wouldnt say the aussies are on the way up...they just lost to the kiwis
The thread was started back in September mate
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How old was Trott when he debuted? If he goes well, Cowan could be in the side for 5+ years.
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How old was Trott when he debuted? If he goes well, Cowan could be in the side for 5+ years.
that would be 28
hussey was 29, Lehman was 30 - it seems an odd concept to actually pick someone in their prime... oh.
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Funny isn't it?
Players like Cook and Ponting are exceptions rather than the rule.
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How can people be calling for Ponting to be dropped?! The guy's class, world class.
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Plays the game the right way too. Should have been backed when he's talked about players being honest re catches rather than relying on tv replays which always go the batysman way.
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What about being honest having nicked off? Can't have it both ways.
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How can people be calling for Ponting to be dropped?! The guy's class, world class.
Probably because he has averaged only 28 since Mar '10 which isn't good enough for a top order batsman to stay in the side
And only 37 since Dec '07..
Question is how long can the Aussies continue to be loyal to a batsman that clearly isn't scoring enough runs which is what he is here for???
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potentially:
watson
warner
marsh
ponting
clarke
hussey
haddin
siddle
pattinson
cummins
lyon
not a bad side
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Plays the game the right way too. Should have been backed when he's talked about players being honest re catches rather than relying on tv replays which always go the batysman way.
Problem is, when a captain made the agreement with him, he appealed for the old worm burner....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqFw-GzGeNM
The younger Katich averaged 45 in 2011 and was replaced by a jittery hack while Ponting averaged 27. Even Hughes averaged more than Ponting. Stuart Broad averaged more than Ponting in the same period. He and I have scored the exact same amount of test centuries since June 2009.
Anything he used to be, he is not now and hasn't been for 2 years. His refusal to adjust his game to suit his declining years as Tendulkar has done, or gracefully retire means he is sliding further down the order (and still failing) which is pushing untested players into the top order while the captain and the ex captain hang around the middle order.
His 2 year golfing tour is costing the team a chance to rebuild. If he is not going to walk (and he never has done that), he needs to be sent.
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He did walk for lbw in the first innings at Hobart...
http://www.cricket.com.au/media-gallery/video/2ndTestDay2Lunch
Hilarious.
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lay of Ricky he is a good guy, plenty of other test playing nations would like to have a player like him scoring 50's and centuries like he is back doing now. And you better watch out as if he plays in England this summer coming they will try and sign him up like they have done with every South African bloke who can hit a ball lol!!!!!! Kidding aside good player, seems to be on the up again nice to see!!!! PS Taswegians rule!!!!!!!
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Worth re-visiting this thread? Haha, Aussies on the way back up again :)
Defeated India 4-0 in the Test series, and just the other day won the Commonwealth Bank Tri-series against Sri Lanka and India (good to see that back btw!)
India were really just disappointing, lacklustre performance in the Tests and ODI's, really just looked like they didn't want to be here. Very quick to drop their heads and when they start losing there is a lot of finger pointing going on...
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Greatly improved from the Ashes debarcle of 2010/11.
I guess I would summarize where we are at using a SWOT type analysis;
Fast bowling - probably the most improved aspect of the Australian test team under McDermotts guidance. Not only is the depth suddenly there with the emergence of Pattinson, Starc & Cummins but a slight change to Siddles action and Hilfies fitness has seen the group not only bowl fast but swing the ball well. Harris is the most skillful but has a bad injury history.
On the flip side, spin bowling. Lyon is the best we have and has produced pretty well to be fair. I just can't see him terrorizing a high quality line up. I think we Aussies are still obsessed with judging everyone against Warne.
Clarkes Captaincy - he's shown to be a strategically excellent skipper with a great ability to read the game. Everything worked this summer and the captain always looks clever when the team wins of course. His field placings and handling of the bowlers was
Astute. None of that suprises me. What is remarkable is Clarkes own batting performance since assuming leadership.
Batting - this is still our greatest area of vulnerability. We've a new opening combo of Warner/Cowan. The emergence of Warner as a test player is exciting and he has match changing ability ala Gilchrist. Needs to find his feet still which will come with experience and minimize the nothing scores. Cowan is solidish and playes to his plan but yet to cement himself.
#3 - our biggest hole and pivotal to future success. We thought this was sorted 6 months ago when Marsh entered with a ton and backed it up prior to injury and then a complete melt down of form since. Khawaja hasn't done much this year to warrant another go at 3 and not sure that he's suited anyway. At the moment, Forrest looks a complete package and needs exposure at test level to see if he's the future in that position. All depends of course what they do with Watson.
Middle order - Clarkes the best bat in the world currently I just wish he would move up the order from 5. The major concern is Ponting/Hussey who both had wonderful summers, Ponting had his second best summer at tests of all time which says so much about his guts and sheer will power. However, he ain't the 2003 version Ponting will call it a day soonish and my concern, as with all batters over 35, is that when the bowling gets
Seriously quick or swings he'll be exposed. Ditto for Hussey but at #6 can hold that spot for a while yet. I'd like to see some young guys sticking their hand up but
There doesn't seem to be a lot of pressure coming from shield ranks.
Fielding was much better, slips caught well & ground fielding
Excellent. Haddin came back to form with the gloves despite a
Rotten summer with the bat. Still the best gloveman for tests. Wade looks a ready back up.
In summary, greatly improved this summer, but the bowling masked
Some vulnerability of the batting. It's crucial as to where Watson is used.
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To be fair, AWP, the Aussie middle order did get a fair lot of 70mph bowling machine half volleys for 7 innings in the India series...
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To be fair, AWP, the Aussie middle order did get a fair lot of 70mph bowling machine half volleys for 7 innings in the India series...
No kidding. That's why I wrote I fear when the bowling gets quick and or moves, the middle order may be exposed.
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On the bowling front, while Siddle & Hilfenhaus have been impressive against a weak India, I am more than happy (assuming Strauss & Cook are as well) that we'll probably be facing them in the 2013 summer.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. We'll see
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I'll be more than happy if Australia continue to pick Beer as their back up spinner as they have for the WI tour! In all honesty from an an Englishman I think the last Ashes series was a the nadir for Aussie cricket, they had been on top of the world for so long that they fell into a complacency and expected everything to carry on as usual, it didn't. The overhaul at the top level should go a long way to making sure this doesn't happen again.
In Clarke I think they have found the ideal Captain and have moved away from the stereotypical Aussie Captain ie Taylor, Waugh, Punter (you wouldn't see any of those guys putting their arms around someone like Johnson when he has a bad day at the office)! Punter looks to be getting back to his best without the added pressure of being Captain, which can only be good for a team in transition.
It's also good to see that they are taking a chance on some younger quicks, Cummins, Starc et al. The emergence of Warner as a Test batsman is great to see, and something that maybe the Indians can learn from, you don't need to score at a rate of 10 an over in Tests and you need to change your game from the shorter formats to adjust to this. I can't believe that there isn't a better keeper in Australia than Haddin, frankly his chat in the India series would of been fine if he'd been able to back it up with a couple of performances, he couldn't, and to be honest had it been Prior I'd of been embarrassed!
There is improvement there, and as we all know you can't keep the Aussies down in any sport for long, but rebuilding takes time and they need to make sure they don't make any rash decisions. The whitewash of an ageing (and in my humble opinion overrated) Indian team that don't like playing on anything but the flatest decks aside a 1-1 draw at home to NZ and some pretty poor moments against South Africa shows there is still some way to go.
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There is a keeper who is better than Haddin, and that it Christ Hartley from the bulls. He is miles ahead of anyone in the pure keeping sense, but his batting hasn't been all the great over the last 2 years. He had an awesome 2009/2010 season where he was named player of the year, but has struggled a bit of late. It's kind of strange because he absolutely dominated first grade cricket this year, but it just didn't carry over to the First Class side of things.
Wade will improve his keeping and batting. He can be like Prior, whose keeping wasn't the best, but he worked hard on it and is now the best keeper/batsmen in the world. I'm sure (and hoping) Wade will work hard and hopefully he will be the same.
The game against NZ was a joke really, the ball moved as much in the 80th over as it did in the first. Well, that maybe a slight exaggeration, but it was still bloody green.
Still a ways to go, but they are definitely moving in the right direction. With a bunch of promising young fast bowlers to develop, and hopefully some batsmen too, Australia is looking in a good place.
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Whose going to come into the middle order to replace ponting and hussey when they go?
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Forrest and Ferguson :)
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Forrest and Ferguson :)
Fair enough :)
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Guys seeing as I am over here in England I reckon Chris Read is miles better than Prior !!!!
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Guys seeing as I am over here in England I reckon Chris Read is miles better than Prior !!!!
Chris Read can't bat, he tries to duck yorkers.
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Prior is a legend! Quality batter and his keeping is getting better and better!