Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: EaglesCC on September 20, 2011, 09:20:51 AM
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I had heard lots about these but never got to try one. Wondering if anyone still sells these in the UK?
I know of CA and SF, are they others?
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yes, but as they are not leagal, not openly.
If you want one i know if two or three that are available... via this forum.
Remember you want a laminate with a 3-4mm face as the laminate, not a massive bit of overdried willow on the back of the bat like the CA model... ;)
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I'd be interested to 'hear' about these Buzz... and you're right. I don't want a joist to hold up a ceiling.
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It would all depend on your budget Eagles as the CA Gel is a £100 job and the veneer laminates which are the highly sought after ones can cost £300. Dont end up with a glorified net bat ;)
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CA Gel is good value for money. I think I did a review of the one I had for a while on this forum.
Though it's a well done/hidden laminate, biggest issue with it is that anyone who knows CA Bats will spot it's a laminate from the stickers. You'll need a sticker change and loads of edge tape to cover it up for matches. Best bet is to get a well done lammy that isn't known - Simmy has an Ayrtek for £200 you'd never spot. He's used it in a few games with no issues.
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CA Gel is good value for money. I think I did a review of the one I had for a while on this forum.
Though it's a well done/hidden laminate, biggest issue with it is that anyone who knows CA Bats will spot it's a laminate from the stickers. You'll need a sticker change and loads of edge tape to cover it up for matches. Best bet is to get a well done lammy that isn't known - Simmy has an Ayrtek for £200 you'd never spot. He's used it in a few games with no issues.
And most people on the field now seem to know that the Gel stickers are a laminate. There's a couple of Stanford ones that are less well known http://onlinestockist.com/LAMINATED-Monster-SF-Saphire-Grade-1-English-Willow-Cricket-Bat-P1664387.aspx and http://onlinestockist.com/SF-VA-900-Laminated-English-Willow-Cricket-Bat-MONSTER-BAT--P1283408.aspx, or the TK Lams for sale on here that are "proper" like the Ricky P and Graham Gooch bats.
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Exuse me if this question is a bit dumb, but why are the laminates with a big bit of laminate? lie a centermeter on the front? like the CA bats?
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Exuse me if this question is a bit dumb, but why are the laminates with a big bit of laminate? lie a centermeter on the front? like the CA bats?
That's the way they make them. The classy ones look rather like this:
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/Uzi-50mm01.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/Uzi-50mm15.jpg)
And are far less obvious. I've owned both types, and I'd say that the "Performance Laminates" as these often get called, do perform better than the "Big Lump of Wood" laminates.
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That Liger Mike had was something else to look at though.
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If you are looking for a big bat, a normal CA would do too. CA seem to have fallen in love with making big bats. If rumors are correct, they are soon launching (very soon) a bat with massive edges named on similar lines.
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I think a lot (most?) manufacturers are not making bats with huge edges but I guess I'm interested in seeing how they compare to a laminate. I had no idea they were THAT expensive though?!
tim, that bat look awsome!
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Laminated bats come in different prices. CA has two models, the Gel, which is in medium range and then a Plus 9000, a high end bat that is laminated. As for the normal 1 piece bats, ca is constantly providing with bats in excess of 35 mm edges which add a real feel good factor for the user.
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tim, that bat look awsome!
Cheers, it's a bit of a rarity - not many Newbery lams with C6 handles around!
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ul see 2 types of laminates....one for sheer size of the bat which is more an Asian style and one for performance like tims pictured above.
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If you want one pm me and I can sort out for you.
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Asian bats are not laminates per se. They can be described as double wood.
A double wood bat makes ordinary willow perform to the level of a good A Grade willow bat.
An English made laminate as seen in the pic above performs better than the best willow.
How much better depends on the quality of the cleft to begin with.
Cheers,
Vic
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Vic i have seen some trampolines from even lower grade, definitely better then the best bats around. I had a 2lbs 13 oz laminate which really gave it all even in a simple block.
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Why dosen't it seem to bother you guy's that in fact you are cheating by using these bats?
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One of my local shop had this Pakistani laminate and it pinged like something I have never seen in my life!
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Why dosen't it seem to bother you guy's that in fact you are cheating by using these bats?
If you only ever use it in nets, you are not cheating.
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If you only ever use it in nets, you are not cheating.
Do many really spend 300 on a net bat?
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Do many really spend 300 on a net bat?
No, and I didn't on that. If you read Vic's post about his, you'll see that in his league many use them so no-one worries too much.
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Why dosen't it seem to bother you guy's that in fact you are cheating by using these bats?
Actually hypocrites like you.
When they remove all of Graham Gooch's records of that golden summer where he annihilated the Indians with a lam and made triple centuries etc - then you might have a case.
But that isn't going to happen is it?
Lams should just be legalized because presently, it is a sham.
The ENTIRE Indian top order use them.
Pretty much the same applies to the English and Australian top orders.
TK keeps churning these out BECAUSE YOUR ENGLISH BORN COUNTY PROS LUST AFTER THEM.
Some of your most beloved English batsmen of the very recent past also used them and still use them in semi retirement flaying County attacks.
Would you like to see their impressive test records carry an asterisk because they used these bats?
Apparently, none of that bothers you - so why should the use of these lams by forum members in irrelevent C grade competitions concern you?
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No, and I didn't on that. If you read Vic's post about his, you'll see that in his league many use them so no-one worries too much.
That is correct.
I have watched on from my vantage point in gully many times as Indian born batsmen have torn our bowling attack apart with a welter of boundaries and sixes with double wood bats (not lams, because they are different) and the first question asked of these Indian lads after the game in the pavillion isn't "ya know you are cheating mate?", but, "where can I get one of them bats too?"
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It does make me wonder if these pros are actually using them... Would they really risk there profession for a few extra yards!!
I have a lam and if you know what your looking for it can easily be picked up on, especially with the quality of cameras used by the media these days..,
I have no issue with people using them, I'm just saying!!!
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It does make me wonder if these pros are actually using them... Would they really risk there profession for a few extra yards!!
I have a lam and if you know what your looking for it can easily be picked up on, especially with the quality of cameras used by the media these days..,
Agreed -
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It does make me wonder if these pros are actually using them... Would they really risk there profession for a few extra yards!!
I have a lam and if you know what your looking for it can easily be picked up on, especially with the quality of cameras used by the media these days..,
I have no issue with people using them, I'm just saying!!!
They do.
They are.
Don't kid yourself otherwise.
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There is NO risk what-so-ever.
The ICC knows they exist.
The BCCI controls the ICC like puppeteers.
If the ban was strictly enforced by the IC...errr, I mean BCCI, there would be a massive outcry of Indian players threatening to throw their toys out of the pram. Not to mention that the IPL would have half as many sixes.
Sixes look great on TV - ergo, the IC...errr, BCCI will never act against something detrimental to their interests.
They are here to stay...and in the not too distant future, legal too.
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They do.
They are.
Don't kid yourself otherwise.
If that ius the case (and I'm not saying it isn't) then way have we not seen a single picture that i can recall) showing an international (or county) batsman using a laminate?
I've played with and against loads of 1st class players in Scotland and always try and have a look at their gear and I've only ever seen one with a Laminate.
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They are so well done, that unless you grab their bat up close and have a look down the shoulders, you would never spot it in a million years.
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They are so well done, that unless you grab their bat up close and have a look down the shoulders, you would never spot it in a million years.
Kinda also begs the question why they made them illegal in the first place.
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they weren't made illegal, they were always illegal.
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They are so well done, that unless you grab their bat up close and have a look down the shoulders, you would never spot it in a million years.
The cameras these days can spot a gnat from the moon, a lam could be spotted easily...
If mr Tendulker was caught using one it would tarnish his whole career, I don't think he'd be so silly to do that... Do you?
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they weren't made illegal, they were always illegal.
So the laminated SS bat was illegal at the time?never knew that.
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Moreover if someone does get pulled up they could argue its a refaced bat which is allowed. I know that some of the Indian players were pulled up on the width of their bats too. I now understand why they hit the ball so far these days.
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Moreover if someone does get pulled up they could argue its a refaced bat which is allowed. I know that some of the Indian players were pulled up on the width of their bats too. I now understand why they hit the ball so far these days.
Cos they are bloody good players?
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Also, has there ever been any evidence of the advantages of Laminated bats, as i believe a study into Corking in baseball showed very little or no improvement in actualy performance and that it was all in the mind.
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I agree to some extent but are the modern day batsman that much better than Sobers or Pollock or Richards. let me ask why did the MCC recently send out a memo regarding the use of these bats. Dave Richardson of the ICC is on record saying these bats provide an unfair advantage to the batsman. I am sure some university carried out some research on this too and concluded that a facing on the front is more advantageous than one on the back. All I can say is the one I have is immense. As good as if not better than any one piece bat I've had.
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And there you go 'as good' as any one piece bat you've ever owed...
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Anyone got a link to any studies on it?
MCC has
conducted research into this area, which concluded that a bat’s performance could be enhanced by lamination.
Was all I could find
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Cos they are bloody good players?
See, this is it: I'm not sure the difference between your average amateur and pro in Cricket is the power of the shot - it's the timing, mental strength and consistency. I don't see the pro's hit the ball with that much more power than anyone I see in the amateur game (Which you would see if they all used these super bats).
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If that ius the case (and I'm not saying it isn't) then way have we not seen a single picture that i can recall) showing an international (or county) batsman using a laminate?
Here are a few:
(http://www.thecricketer.com/published/84/resources/images/Gall%20gooch/1250492_10.jpg)
(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/135100/135115.jpg)
(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/93200/93268.jpg)
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If laminates are so widely used by professionals in the modern game then why are there so many one-piece 'pro' bats available from boutique manufacturers? Surely if laminates were so widely used in the professional game then pros would only be interested in companies offering a laminate service? This is definitely not the case....
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If that ius the case (and I'm not saying it isn't) then way have we not seen a single picture that i can recall) showing an international (or county) batsman using a laminate?
I've played with and against loads of 1st class players in Scotland and always try and have a look at their gear and I've only ever seen one with a Laminate.
there was a photo floating around on the forum of harbajan singh clearly using a laminate during the test series this summer and yet we haven't heard a pip about it from the ICC, confirming Vic's point in a way.
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If laminates are so widely used by professionals in the modern game then why are there so many one-piece 'pro' bats available from boutique manufacturers? Surely if laminates were so widely used in the professional game then pros would only be interested in companies offering a laminate service? This is definitely not the case....
I agree
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there was a photo floating around on the forum of harbajan singh clearly using a laminate during the test series this summer and yet we haven't heard a pip about it from the ICC, confirming Vic's point in a way.
What photo? Get it up
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Actually hypocrites like you.
When they remove all of Graham Gooch's records of that golden summer where he annihilated the Indians with a lam and made triple centuries etc - then you might have a case.
But that isn't going to happen is it?
Lams should just be legalized because presently, it is a sham.
The ENTIRE Indian top order use them.
Pretty much the same applies to the English and Australian top orders.
TK keeps churning these out BECAUSE YOUR ENGLISH BORN COUNTY PROS LUST AFTER THEM.
Some of your most beloved English batsmen of the very recent past also used them and still use them in semi retirement flaying County attacks.
Would you like to see their impressive test records carry an asterisk because they used these bats?
Apparently, none of that bothers you - so why should the use of these lams by forum members in irrelevent C grade competitions concern you?
I have never used one so not sure how you can call me a hypocryte? I also have never liked the excuse of someone else doing the wrong thing to justify doing the wrong thing myself. These are also massive claims you are making about these players, I hope you can produce evidence if it ever blows up in your face, it sounds like you have fallen for the tripe of a salesman about the importance of your bat. I will be sending off an en mail to the relevent associations in Victoria informing them of your and the apparent widespread use of these bats. Why bother with any laws if you are just going to pick and choose which to follow?
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I am australian by the way Vic, and reading the bit about the aussie top order using them confirms to me you are cluless.
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In the recent tour the umpires when into the dressing rooms and told them to use legal bats, it was followed up be an edict from the MCC along these lines.
So the answer is none of the players in the recent series were using laminates.
TK doesn't make laminates for Aussie players (!!) apparently.
Goochie did use a lam for that summer against Indian and several of the Eng players have reportly used them, but umpires are stamping it out now.
Plus modern bats are so good now, I really don't think a lam will make that much difference.
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In the recent tour the umpires when into the dressing rooms and told them to use legal bats, it was followed up be an edict from the MCC along these lines.
So the answer is none of the players in the recent series were using laminates.
TK doesn't make laminates for Aussie players (!!) apparently.
Goochie did use a lam for that summer against Indian and several of the Eng players have reportly used them, but umpires are stamping it out now.
Plus modern bats are so good now, I really don't think a lam will make that much difference.
If he made some lam's for Aussie players then they musn't be using them right, ahaha ;)
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They do.
They are.
Don't kid yourself otherwise.
Ive been in county dressing rooms, supplied Trescothick, Hayden, Symonds, Laxman and more. Not once have I supplied or seen a laminate. So who's using them? Who's supplying them?
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I had a tk lam and the Perfromance was not overly noticeable from my lavers if I'm honest
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There is NO risk what-so-ever.
The ICC knows they exist.
The BCCI controls the ICC like puppeteers.
If the ban was strictly enforced by the IC...errr, I mean BCCI, there would be a massive outcry of Indian players threatening to throw their toys out of the pram. Not to mention that the IPL would have half as many sixes.
Sixes look great on TV - ergo, the IC...errr, BCCI will never act against something detrimental to their interests.
They are here to stay...and in the not too distant future, legal too.
The MCC are the rulemakers. They're the ones you're up in front if you make illegal bats.
I know, i've been dragged up to the Chief Execs office to explain myself.
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just being massively pedantic on this, the mcc keep the laws. the rules and playing conditions are within the confines of the icc.
not sure I want to be hauled up to the mcc secretary's office any time soon!
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Well the MCC are the ones who do the laws on bats. They also often send out a representative to tournaments who knows their onions to check bats and work alongside the on field ICC umpires. Which is how I got caught...
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Tom do you think these bats perform better than a one piece bat? Use is illegal no doubt. I am merely enquiring about the performance gains if any. In your time involved in cricket, were you ever requested for one? Not asking for names.
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just being massively pedantic on this, the mcc keep the laws. the rules and playing conditions are within the confines of the icc.
not sure I want to be hauled up to the mcc secretary's office any time soon!
Depends on what the secretary looks like Buzz ;)
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Depends on what the secretary looks like Buzz ;)
usually old and male.
and nothing like this: http://www.secretarythemovie.co.uk/html/home.html
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Tom do you think these bats perform better than a one piece bat? Use is illegal no doubt. I am merely enquiring about the performance gains if any. In your time involved in cricket, were you ever requested for one? Not asking for names.
I've never used one, so can't possibly comment. And no, I wasn't. Which given the fact I supplied 40+ pros and the way Vic has said it's so widespread is surprising.
Every team looks at each others bats, the amount of times I got asked to copy Ramprakash's or another county pros they'd seen was staggering. You're telling me that if these boys saw a laminate being used against them, they wouldn't report it?
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Fair enough.
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Well the MCC are the ones who do the laws on bats. They also often send out a representative to tournaments who knows their onions to check bats and work alongside the on field ICC umpires. Which is how I got caught...
How you got caught?
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MCC guy went round the changing room taking up grips, scuff sheets and binding. Not a laminate thing and an honest mistake, but tells you how thorough it can be.
I'd like the MCC and ICC to check more often actually, like they do with drugs tests after every game. A few players have been rumoured to have slipped through the net with laminates and dodgy bats. Never seen one myself in the field though.
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Vic you have come across as a pretty sensible bloke in the past so I'm surprised to read your comments on this.
You have made some pretty big allegations here which I would advise you to either remove or back up. If you can prove them true, then fair enough and I'd like to see the proof. Indeed if it is true, I'm sure you will have no problem producing evidence to back it up.
However you are sensible enough to know that if your claims are false, trouble could be around the corner.
There was another member here, JohnG I believe, who made similar claims about knowing of lams being used in top flight Australian cricket, but he became very defensive when he was asked to evidence it. He also did not like it when it was suggested that if his information was accurate, why didn't he do something about it?
I have an interest in lam bats but it is purely from the aspect of understanding the physics involved. I may well get one in the future and I may well use it, but it will be only for nets and practice, just to understand the differences involved. I would never use them in a match as it is cheating, plain and simple. That others do use them is not an excuse and it does not justify you or I using them too.
Edit: There seems to be a pattern between those who believe lams are used widely, and an affinity to a certain bat dealer who has a history of perhaps spicing up stories relating to bats to make them more appealing.
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I would never use them in a match as it is cheating, plain and simple. That others do use them is not an excuse and it does not justify you or I using them too.
Hear, hear
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Hear, hear
To be perfectly honest, I can't see that they make such a massive difference. Modern (legal) bats are pretty good and we do see a disproportionate number of lams come up for sale second hand here...I can think of 3 for sale right now.
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To be perfectly honest, I can't see that they make such a massive difference. Modern (legal) bats are pretty good and we do see a disproportionate number of lams come up for sale second hand here...I can think of 3 for sale right now.
you will find out soon enough my friend :)
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The thing is with a laminate is that it wont make you a better player but will turn a very good player into a great player. You have to have the ability to middle a ball first and a laminate will turn a one bounce four into a 6 just over the ropes. They are no magic workers
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I think there was a void here in that there hadn't been a new and shiny trendy brand or gimmick for a few months so everyone fell in love with the idea of lams.
It will be interesting to see Vic's evidence.
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Can someone please explain one thing, is the laminated portion glued on first then the bat is pressed? If so how does the joint stand up to the pressure?
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thinking bak to the SS MArk Taylor i had i always wondered why it looked like two peices of wood stuck together .... i hated it becasue i was 16 and everyone was laughing at my SS ........... had to be GN, SLaz or kookaburra Ridgeback in those days!
where can i get one of these performance laminates custom made?
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only people i know who can help is brimble or bulldog. bulldog will be your best bet right now.
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sam did you sell your one?
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Nope. Just sold my car at last so not NEEDING to sell it now! would be much better off keeping it i think! But if a decent enough offer comes along its going as its not ideal having it sat around for 18months...
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it occurred to me this evening that the person who said the most people used laminate bats and said they were the best thing, just happened to be the person who sold the most if them.
just thinking out loud after a beer or two, mind.
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just found this ...
the inside of a laminated bat!!
http://www.callencricket.com.au/images/flatbat23.jpg
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That's a different type of lam
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it occurred to me this evening that the person who said the most people used laminate bats and said they were the best thing, just happened to be the person who sold the most if them.
just thinking out loud after a beer or two, mind.
I said the same above. Strange that.
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In Pakistan I know for a fact that laminated bats are cheaper than regular bats. But the mystical, elusive player edition laminated bat....
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The question here is that do they provide an advantage?
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I am australian by the way Vic, and reading the bit about the aussie top order using them confirms to me you are cluless.
No.
Just confirms that your myopic patriotism cannot handle the fact that Aussies would use these things.
Typical Aussie attitude sadly...everybody else in the world cheats, but never us.
Grab a hold of Punters 2005 Ashes bat.
Watch that (No Swearing Please) sandwich blow up in your face.
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Just goes to prove, cheats never prosper.
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Kinda also begs the question why they made them illegal in the first place.
Why?
I will tell you why.
When Gooch plundered 1,000 test runs in one golden summer, the Indians complained LOUDLY about his bat and that it should be illegal.
The ICC dutifully made it happen.
Then Indian players being curious started to ask bat makers in their country to make them one as well....and it spun off from there.
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Vic - who has a say in the legality of the bat? Who are the lawmakers?
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Just goes to prove, cheats never prosper.
Hate to break it to you, but English players have been known to use them too...as well as mints to put sugar on one side of the ball etc.
Wasn't "fair cheating all round" an English concept?
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Vic - who has a say in the legality of the bat? Who are the lawmakers?
BCCI > ICC > MCC > flow on to everybody else.
That is the heirarchy.
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Haha. Have you gone a little mad?
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I have never used one so not sure how you can call me a hypocryte? I also have never liked the excuse of someone else doing the wrong thing to justify doing the wrong thing myself. These are also massive claims you are making about these players, I hope you can produce evidence if it ever blows up in your face, it sounds like you have fallen for the tripe of a salesman about the importance of your bat. I will be sending off an en mail to the relevent associations in Victoria informing them of your and the apparent widespread use of these bats. Why bother with any laws if you are just going to pick and choose which to follow?
I have not named any single player - so I haven't defamed anybody.
Hence, I cannot be sued by anybody.
I do not need to prove that they are using them any more than you need to prove that they are NOT using them.
And if by happenstance I get tapped on the shoulder by anyone in my association to stop using my bat I shall formally request that every bowler with a suspect action (every team has at least one) in my comp be immediately removed from participating in weekend park cricket.
Quid Pro Quo.
Neither will happen cause it simply isn't worth it.
My Mark Taveresque batting is highly unlikely to draw any complaints about a bat that allows me to hit the ball a meter further than my shadow.
Best of luck with your crusade.
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I have not named any single player - so I haven't defamed anybody.
Hence, I cannot be sued by anybody.
Okay - if you're so well informed and know that players are using illegal bats. Then name them. You can't be sued if it's the truth. Or are you relying on pure hearsay from the esteemed lam bat seller?
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Vic, you seemed a reasonably well balanced sort of chap before these ramblings, the fact remains you are cheating by using the bat, regardless of who else does what, if you can live with it then thats all that matters I guess, maybe it's a trait suited to your profession?
Does it bother the moderators here that a poster is accusing the Australian, English and the Indian top order of cheating without any proof? I have infact visited Kookaburra in melbourne numerous times and have seen all the Kooka guys bats, including quite a few of the older ones on display, none were laminates, nor are the Gray's or Slaz players.
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Big boy - from my point of view, I have a bat made for Afridi and one for Tendulkar which are Lams. I'm not saying for one minute that they wanted them made for matches - they may have asked to try one out as they seem to practice most days in the nets (lucky boys!)
So although I very much doubt that it's as wide spread as claimed, everyone is entitled to speculate as to how widespread it is! I am sure that 90% of players have tried them out in the nets at some point to see how they go, but how many have used one in a match would be pure speculation! And although Tom seems to indicate that everyone is holier than thou, I personally suspect that there are a number of players who have (at one time or another) used something bordering on illegal! I have no proof of this, and there is no real proof that some players have not used a lam at one time or another! So from omy point of view I am happy to let the conversation continue as long as it stays reasonably polite!!
Not sure what the other mods/admin think?
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Afridi cheat?! Nah, never gonna happen...
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;)
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I have never used one so not sure how you can call me a hypocryte? I also have never liked the excuse of someone else doing the wrong thing to justify doing the wrong thing myself. These are also massive claims you are making about these players, I hope you can produce evidence if it ever blows up in your face, it sounds like you have fallen for the tripe of a salesman about the importance of your bat. I will be sending off an en mail to the relevent associations in Victoria informing them of your and the apparent widespread use of these bats. Why bother with any laws if you are just going to pick and choose which to follow?
I didn't infer that you use or have used a lam.
I called you a hypocfrite because in your life you have certainly taped an album, burnt/ripped a CD, burnt/ripped a DVD....and these are all punishable with hundred thousand plus dollar fines...plus jail terms because it is breaking the law.
You have done at least one of the above haven't you?
Yes, we all knew it.
As for lams, I am not a district cricketer, nor am I first class cricketer or test cricketer, so I am not playing at a level where using a lam would draw any concern from anyone. The WORST that could happen to me is if somebody insists I grab another bat out of my kit bag....I certainly wouldnot be jailed or fined. As for you and your ripping CD's DVDs and taping albums, you have broken laws that draw massive fines and jail sentences.
Another case in point, the Gray Nicolls Fusion with the carbo handle was outlawed by the ICC/MCC because it is not 100% made of wood and apparently offered teh batsman an unfair advantage. Yet, the Gray Nicolls Fusion appears in every competition I have participated in...why isn't it banned at my level? Answer...because nobody cares....the level I play at is not FC cricket, nor district, nor subdistrict.
Yet the GN Fusion is everywhere....have you fired off an angry email to have the associations ban that bat too?
Finaslly, today we played a pre season practice match against another club who from the other side of Melbourne and play in a totally different comp.
The team consisted of 9 Pakistani's and three white guys...I counted no less than eight of the Pakistani lads using the CA gel double wood bats. EIGHT!!!
If it wasn't for this site, I wouldn't have even known that the CA gels are such bats - but there they were...eight in one team from a random competition. I must say that they hit some massive sixes. One of them was so extrtaordinary, that the guy lost control of the bat and played a one handed pick up shot over square leg for six that cleared the twelve foot high cyclone fence and nearly hit the runners practicing on the running track near the ground.
In the right hands, the lam can be a lethal weapon. In the hands of a park cricketer...well, it is not a great help to be honest because it has no super powers to stop you from missing the ball and getting bowled. It cannot stop you from being LBW and it cannot stop you from edging to the keeper or slips.
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Well the ca gels certainly wouldnt have helped them hit these sixes as they arent even performance enhancing, infact some think they are the opposite with some of the worst wood going in there to give it a chance of selling.
I think the gn fusions can still be used, but not manufactured? so thats legal. i think. could be worng but thats how it was with the pumas.
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Vic, you seemed a reasonably well balanced sort of chap before these ramblings, the fact remains you are cheating by using the bat, regardless of who else does what, if you can live with it then thats all that matters I guess, maybe it's a trait suited to your profession?
If the Gray Nicolls Fusion and chucking is not outlawed in my comp - then I doubt that double woods and lams (which I have observed over the last two years without using one myself) are on the banned list.
The standard is too low to be trifled with.
As for your last comment about my profession - I really take exception to that. It is my duty to deal with peoples biggest asset...worth in some cases millions of dollars. I have been doing it for eighteen years nowand not only have I never been spoken to by my governing body, in 1999 I scored a perfect 100% score in secret mystery buyer customer service reports. One of only four estate agents in all of Victoria to get a perfect score out of the thousands tested.
I might also add that I do not know of any estate agents in jail in Victoria...but there are hundreds of accountants and lawyers rotting in jail.
By the way, what do you do for a living?
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You are correct peplow..can be used still...not illegal to use
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the team you were playing also cheated as they had 12 players :)
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Same with the Newbery C6+ and Puma handles too? They've already been manufactured and can be used in matches, but can't be repaired?
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Well the ca gels certainly wouldnt have helped them hit these sixes as they arent even performance enhancing, infact some think they are the opposite with some of the worst wood going in there to give it a chance of selling.
I think the gn fusions can still be used, but not manufactured? so thats legal. i think. could be worng but thats how it was with the pumas.
I dunno what effect the CA gels had, but I can say that these Pakistani cricketers were outstanding. Freakish even.
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Big boy - from my point of view, I have a bat made for Afridi and one for Tendulkar which are Lams. I'm not saying for one minute that they wanted them made for matches - they may have asked to try one out as they seem to practice most days in the nets (lucky boys!)
So although I very much doubt that it's as wide spread as claimed, everyone is entitled to speculate as to how widespread it is! I am sure that 90% of players have tried them out in the nets at some point to see how they go, but how many have used one in a match would be pure speculation! And although Tom seems to indicate that everyone is holier than thou, I personally suspect that there are a number of players who have (at one time or another) used something bordering on illegal! I have no proof of this, and there is no real proof that some players have not used a lam at one time or another! So from omy point of view I am happy to let the conversation continue as long as it stays reasonably polite!!
Not sure what the other mods/admin think?
Stupid question here pete.... How do you know they were bats for Afridi and Tendulkar?
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the team you were playing also cheated as they had 12 players :)
Every team has twelve?
Or have I missed the pun?
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i thought you were saying 8/12 that had batted had lams, but was misread :D next....
Does anyone else feel this arguement is going and will go nowhere... vic is going to use them regardless, some will think he is wrong some may not care about it.
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It may have run its productive race.
Everyone has different views and each of those view points has some valid points.
It is just the hypocracy that is hard to take.
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I have a cousin who plays first class Cricket in New Zealand and he was lucky enough to train with the Indian squad when they last came here.He personally talked to most the batters in the nets and ALL, i will say it again,ALL of the batsman had 2 laminated bats each and a box full of sponsor's stickers in each players coffins.
He got around 20 sets of different kinds of asian branded stickers which were surplus to the players.
He told me the players did not say a word bout the lams except for Dhoni who said "oh yeah i had it repaired after a crack cos its my fave bat"
Surely each of the batsman doesn't have 2 lucky bats all of which were repaired because they are their favorites!!
Wether they use it in international games is not something we can be sure of.Could be just net bats but WHO KNOWS!
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Right or wrong I'm not overly concerned about whether its cheating, good, bad or otherwise.. I would like to know though how Vic knows that all these international cricketers are using these bats especially considering Vic is only playing low level cricket himself...
Anyone can say "so and so" is using laminated bats. I have no doubt some are using bats that they shouldn't be using but I have no idea who... Vic seems to have more inside info than most.. I don't want Vic to spill names... Just how he knows this info would be interesting to me
By the way Vic it isn't illegal to burn dvd/cd's.. You are allowed to make copies of your own disc's for safe keeping... You aren't, on the other hand, allowed to sell said burnt copies...
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Big boy - from my point of view, I have a bat made for Afridi and one for Tendulkar which are Lams. I'm not saying for one minute that they wanted them made for matches - they may have asked to try one out as they seem to practice most days in the nets (lucky boys!)
So although I very much doubt that it's as wide spread as claimed, everyone is entitled to speculate as to how widespread it is! I am sure that 90% of players have tried them out in the nets at some point to see how they go, but how many have used one in a match would be pure speculation! And although Tom seems to indicate that everyone is holier than thou, I personally suspect that there are a number of players who have (at one time or another) used something bordering on illegal! I have no proof of this, and there is no real proof that some players have not used a lam at one time or another! So from omy point of view I am happy to let the conversation continue as long as it stays reasonably polite!!
Not sure what the other mods/admin think?
Where did you buy your bats from?
I'm not saying everyone is holy, but I've not seen one in use or been asked for them. Ive dealt more than pretty much anyone here with pros and having worked on the development of the most radical lookong bat in 200yrs i have also worked very closely with the MCC, Tim Keeley and the ICC.
Only one guy is said to make these bats. Yet recently the majority of the Indian pros have SS, FC Sondhi and SG on ther edges of their bat. Are they making them too?
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Right or wrong I'm not overly concerned about whether its cheating, good, bad or otherwise.. I would like to know though how Vic knows that all these international cricketers are using these bats especially considering Vic is only playing low level cricket himself...
Anyone can say "so and so" is using laminated bats. I have no doubt some are using bats that they shouldn't be using but I have no idea who... Vic seems to have more inside info than most.. I don't want Vic to spill names... Just how he knows this info would be interesting to me
By the way Vic it isn't illegal to burn dvd/cd's.. You are allowed to make copies of your own disc's for safe keeping... You aren't, on the other hand, allowed to sell said burnt copies...
If someoneburns a CD or DVD and they don't own it, just copying it to avoid buying it, then it is illegal and punishable in Australia with 100K fines and prison sentences.
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Thats why I said "your own" disc's
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i thought you were saying 8/12 that had batted had lams, but was misread :D next....
Does anyone else feel this arguement is going and will go nowhere... vic is going to use them regardless, some will think he is wrong some may not care about it.
I think there is still alot of life left in this thread...
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I think there is still alot of life left in this thread...
For information, or for having a dig at eachother?
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There only seems to be 2 having a dig at each other.. The rest are interested in where the info comes from
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i think they should allow the laminated bats and let everyone use htem ..... level palying field
maybe use a weighted ball too for the bowlers and turn it into an american style sport where a maiden over would be frowned upon!!
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If someoneburns a CD or DVD and they don't own it, just copying it to avoid buying it, then it is illegal and punishable in Australia with 100K fines and prison sentences.
But if you don't sell them, you will never be caught. Dunno how we got onto this though
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i think they should allow the laminated bats and let everyone use htem ..... level palying field
maybe use a weighted ball too for the bowlers and turn it into an american style sport where a maiden over would be frowned upon!!
So change cricket....... That's ridiculous.
Just stick with the ICC laws as they are at the moment, as use a normal, one-piece, legal bat. What's wrong with that?
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It does seem to be going round in circles, I think it's cheating, Vic dosen't, different values in life I guess. These statments are the ones that have annoyed me the most.
"The ENTIRE Indian top order use them.
Pretty much the same applies to the English and Australian top orders."
I have seen enough of the aussie and state guy's equipment to know this statement is rubbish, I also know that international players equipment is now checked more than ever. It just seems Vic is trying to justify this bat by rubbishing a stack of international players, based only on the words of the chap that sold him this wonder bat. Vic either needs to retract this garbage or come up with some proof.
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But if you don't sell them, you will never be caught. Dunno how we got onto this though
It's called deflecting.
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It is cheating full stop. It's against the rules, who cares if some guy from some team uses one, he is cheating. You may get away with using one, but you'd always be a fraud. You wouldn't match fix, ball tamper, scuff the pitch, so why would you use an illegal bat. Who are you kidding apart from yourself?
The use of laminates in nets do not both me at all, everyone could own one and I wouldn't mind. It's when someone brags about using one in a game and getting 50/60/70-160 runs. Well done. You must be super proud.
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Does Chris Gayle use a laminated bat? (Question to those in the know...)
Reason I ask, is because if he doesnt, he'd be hitting 6s into the next country with one....
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Nope, combination of 3.2 bat and strength/bat speed
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With the fines and jail terms, they are rarely enforced as I know someone who had over 1000 movies on a website for people to copy, they didn't ask for money but they accepted 'donations' as part of a membership which totalled over $100,000 and they were sentenced last week to 18 and 15 month suspended jail sentences and have to do 200 and 120 hours of community service each, as well as paying back the money they earnt.
No jail, minimal to no fine (had to pay back mone earnt through it) and they only have to do community service, so not as big as Vic made it sound/ not enforced to the full extent , as they had 1000 copied dvds in their possession, they were selling them, but they really only got a slap on the wrist
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brothers-made-50000-from-selling-pirated-dvds-over-the-internet/story-e6freoof-1226136529946
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The fact that Lams enhance performance of a bat says it all for me. There are "cheats" in all sports look at athletics, cycling, football. I have a lam it's as good if not better than the best bat I've had. Until you've had one you won't know what I mean. It's very tempting to use in a game. Believe me because of the advantage it provides .
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The thing is, I completely agree with Vic.
Indians probably use laminates, and that is probably the only reason why people aren't getting fined etc.
I am using the word "probably" not definitely, but it does make a fair amount of sense IMO.
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Based on what are you saying they use laminates? Pure guess?
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I am indirectly hinting at it.
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On the CLT20 on eurosport, Yusuf Pathan has a bat with surgical tape down both edges, looks a little weird.
He's just smashed 4 sixes!!!
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so you've seen them using one? You've looked at their bats closely and believe they do? You've made bats for them?
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On the CLT20 on eurosport, Yusuf Pathan has a bat with surgical tape down both edges, looks a little weird.
yeah and he just hit two huge sixes!!!
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4 huge sixes in a row now!
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kallis batting well, holding the innings together and now on the attack
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(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/d7bow/f0b67ae1.jpg)
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Really weird edge tape!!
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its the cotton style plaster tape
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i am fe dup with all this lam crap..
there are performance enhancing bats yes.
they dont make the full blade the middle they make the middle alittle bit better!
its not like u can play a forward defensive 6 tho or anything like that. you just hit the ball a little bit harder!
if u cant middle or time the ball its no better for u than any other bat!
i bet u can get some g1 bats that are just as good or better than a lam!
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You could argue with Laminated bats that the shot you would have hit into the gap carries to the fielder.
Some are good some are not, some pro players might have used them most won't have. I'm not sure as a pro player I would risk the grief that would come from using illegal equipment!
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so you've seen them using one? You've looked at their bats closely and believe they do? You've made bats for them?
Where did I mention that? I just think they might...
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i am fe dup with all this lam crap..
there are performance enhancing bats yes.
they dont make the full blade the middle they make the middle alittle bit better!
its not like u can play a forward defensive 6 tho or anything like that. you just hit the ball a little bit harder!
if u cant middle or time the ball its no better for u than any other bat!
i bet u can get some g1 bats that are just as good or better than a lam!
spot on my friend
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don't know much about this debate/argument but just seen this on ebay,I guess this is the laminated bats being referred to.Never seen one myself but have a mate at my club who says he can get them and that performance is far better than a normal bat
TOP GRAIN 20/20 NEW AUGEST 2011
Here is a chance to own a very rare and unique cricket bat. Proper hand crafted a renowned and highly regarded bat maker.
This bat was made as a prototype and includes laminated edges, giving more willow to the middle of the bat, enhancing the profile, LOVERLY balance weight 2.8 Didn’t Not bottom heavy bat, sp prefect blance.
It has TOP GRAIN 20/20 so lovely which also aids the bats huge profile, and sets it apart from many other bats, this trend is coming new in with the look likes of the Gray Nicolls so get in their early! The edges are massive on it, just what every cricketer craves! The willow is of a grade with straight evenly spaced grains, this is sure to be a fantastic bat, I have added a scuff sheet to the bat and but very small crack face
This bats generally sell best offer £180 less bottom of the range to RRP£230 top of the range, off their website brand new. Bear in mind this is still brand new and a unique bat.
GOOD POINT,
NOTHING MAJOR BAT
VERY GOOD BAT AND SOUND PING
VERY GOOD WEIGHT BALANCE LOVELY,
BAD POINT.
BACK STICKER SOME BUBBLE
VERY SMALL CRACK FACE NOTHING MAJOR
I am positive any potential buyer would be over the moon with it!
NO SCAMMERS DO ONE! PAYMENT THROUGH PAYPAL WITHIN 3 DAYS OR WILL BE RELISTED AND YOU WILL BE REPORTED. (sorry for this but a lot of people have wasted time in the past don't want this happening again want both of us to be happy
Best of Luck
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can you post the link mate, wouldnt mind having a look
thanks
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Where did I mention that? I just think they might...
Based on what though? Why do you think they might?
It seems like me the only ones saying that the majority of Indian/Aus/Eng players are using lams have no evidence, have never seen their bats up close and it's a pure guess or they're relying on hearsay from the guy selling them!
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Any particular reason why the majority of bats I've seen from the sub-continent are laminates?
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Any particular reason why the majority of bats I've seen from the sub-continent are laminates?
Perhaps who you play with combined with the fact of not seeing many bats.
The sub continental laminates from CA, SF and AS do not increase performance. And are used to mask low grade willow or Kashmir. A performance increasing laminate is much difference in make up.
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Any particular reason why the majority of bats I've seen from the sub-continent are laminates?
Because they are cheaper there than regular English Willow bats.
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Malik was the first guy in Pakistan introducing laminates bats in Pakistan and his laminated bats are much better than other makes from subcontinent
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But if you don't sell them, you will never be caught. Dunno how we got onto this though
Aaah Langer, you are now trying to back track like BigBoy...
The old "as long as you don't get caught, you won't go to jail, so it is OK" line.
Oh yeah, that makes it above board.
YOU AND BIGBOY ARE KNOWINGLY BREAKING THE LAW AND CAN BE JAILED.
If someone from the opposition objects to me using my lam, then I shall grab a regular bat from my kit bag.
I will not be jailed nor fined.
Am I cheat?
Is the guy bowling bouncers at me with the bent arm a cheat? Is the young Asian spinner with the Murali a cheat?
I used the lam in an anything goes practice match yesterday. Was I able to hit massive sixes when I couldn't before?
Nope. I still couldn't hit sixes and I struggled to hit fours. My runs were accumulated in my usual way of a single here and the odd two there. There is no magic wand.
In my hands the lam was no better than my GM Icons to be completely honest.
In the right hands, the lam probably could be a weapon. In my hands less so.
Will I be fined or jailed for my actions. No chance.
Could Bigboy and Langer be jailed for their pirating of CDs and DVDs? Yes they could.
Yet they have a problem with my morals, yet no problem with their double standards with their illegal behavior.
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Dude, seriously stop having a go at everyone, I don't copy dvd's I never have and I never will, I am simply stating how it is. I suggest you take a chill pill mate and stop attacking people.
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I never said anything about using the lams as I couldn't care, I never knew about them before this site and I would never use them simply because I still don't really know and don't want to know anything about them. If your comp allows them, then all power to you and I am not going to say you shouldn't use them, and I didn't, but you seem to have a go at me when I just said how it was in regards to cd pirating/burning.
Pirating/Copying dvd's are wrong, I don't do it and I never will, but unless people sell them it is really hard for the police to find these people so they can be punished. So my morals are fine and I don't appreciate you questioning mine, I never questioned yours and I certainly never said it was ok if you read what I said
"But if you don't sell them, you will never be caught"
nowhere did I say it was ok, I just said unless they sold them they wouldnt be caught and therfore they wouldnt be punished. The dvd pirating laws are very strict but they are also very hard to police.
I suggest you get your facts straight before you have a go at me mate, I never had a go at you and I don't have a problem with people using lams, so your guns are pointing in the wrong direction
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Aren't you 2 (langer and Vic) aussie?come on guys wheres the aussie love!?
Vic has a point with people questioning his morals,so does everyone else.
NO PERSON IS ABLE TO COME TO A DEFINITE CONCLUSION WITHOUT PROOF.
So lets just get back to the original post which was "does anyone still sell laminated bats?" Yes,a few people does mate.
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Vic has a point with people questioning his morals,so does everyone else.
The thing is that I never once questioned his morals, nor did I say using a lam was wrong, but he felt the need to attack me when I never said anything about him. This is the second time he has done this to me when it is completely unwarranted.
I can understand why he would be upset as people say using lams are wrong and judging by it people have questioned his morals (I havent read this whole thread, so don't know for sure) which isn't right, but I didn't so I didn't expect to cop it and certainly didn't expect to be singled out.
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The thing is that I never once questioned his morals, nor did I say using a lam was wrong, but he felt the need to attack me when I never said anything about him. This is the second time he has done this too me when it is completely unwarranted.
I can see why he would be upset as people say using lams are wrong and judging by it people have questioned his morals (I havent read this whole thread, so don't know for sure) which isn't right, but I didn't so I didn't expect to cop it and certainly didn't expect to be singled out.
I understand and i wasn't blaming you bud i was just saying its not right to question Vic's morals like some people did.
I'm sure all of those people who's got issues with Vic's morals has at one stage downloaded an mp3 file online which is a bigger offence.
So no one can point fingers at anyone since we can't be sure of the use of lams and by who and if it ACTUALLY enhance your performance.
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ok, I think this topic has strayed far enough. I'm going to lock her up for now.