Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Cover_Drive on October 12, 2011, 01:52:05 AM
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I always wanted to make this topic but due to one reason or another I wasn't really able to make one.
Anyways, over the past year or so I gained lot of knowledge on bats (thanks to all lovely people here and more importantly to this forum) so over summer I met pretty much all of Pakistani contracted players [like of Misbah Ul Haq, Younis Khan, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Azhar Ali, Taufeeq Umar, Asad Shafiq and lots of new young players] and saw there bats.
Over my stay here I have noticed one thing and thats people rate Pro bats as they have come from heaven!
Having seen few pro bats and owning few myself I can safely assure myself that pro bats are not really different than what we buy from store. Some of the pro bats I saw for example Younis Khan's CA, Misbah Uk Haq's bat and Umar Akmal's GM Flare they were 'big' than regular ones sold in market but then some bats of other players there wasn't really anything different from what we would get in the market. In fact, some pro bats looked horrible [I'm sure if they were to be put on sale on CBF without 'Pro' label no one would buy it] but performed exceptionally well.
So my opinion is that some pro bats are really massive, look nice as we all know but then most are just normal bats like us. It is the player rather than the bat after all.
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So my opinion is that some pro bats are really massive, look nice as we all know but then most are just normal bats like us. It is the player rather than the bat after all.
Pretty much spot on - indeed, there are often better looking bats out there - I know a lot of the bigger manufacturers grade their bats for pros seperately, so something that might be sold as G2 or even three on looks goes to a pro because it has the right structure to perform well.
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I agree its the batsman.
However, there is a difference in real good bats and average/good bats. I mean a real good bat performance wise, you will see a difference when you swing your hardest/time the ball and I think you will see it goes a little bit better. But there is no such thing as a bat where you just block it "and it goes flying".
I should say , and I know for a fact, all the Australian team are absolutely amazed by Watsons bats, and are apparently lightyears the best bats in the Australian team. Dont know exactly why etc, but just showing there could be a difference between some pros bats. I think you find shield/county cricketers bats woudlnt be that much better than ours.
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I should say , and I know for a fact, all the Australian team are absolutely amazed by Watsons bats, and are apparently lightyears the best bats in the Australian team. Dont know exactly why etc, but just showing there could be a difference between some pros bats. I think you find shield/county cricketers bats woudlnt be that much better than ours.
Don't think you can even be that specific - I mean, there are several accounts of how Nick Knight liked his bats to have a low, flat middle which meant that to anyone else they picked up like driftwood, and I know from using one in a net about 18 months back that Michael Vaughan used to use some very odd, waferlike bats, whilst Chris Silverwood of all people used to get some absolute beauties.
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I agree, performance in pro bats is definitely guaranteed but then we can say there bats could be pressed softer and different than off shelf bats. However, our bats can open up and perform as good as their bats if not better. But then pro make better use of the bats compared to us.
I believe if we use a bat for 2-3 season (just one same bat) it would ping as well as pro bats at its peak if we were to compare the performance of both our and pro bats.
I think Watsons bat is quite big in shape that's what GM Players bat picture said. Maybe that's why they are amazed, how light it feels despite being huge? Even Umar Akmals bat was quite big for its weight
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Michael Vaughan claimed on radio two months ago he wasn't bothered about his bats and was happy to just take one off the shelf. Remember pros have this thing called ability and timing.
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Michael Vaughan claimed on radio two months ago he wasn't bothered about his bats and was happy to just take one off the shelf. Remember pros have this thing called ability and timing.
He seemed pretty particular that day! Flintoff was the ultimate non-carer - remember he once tore the cellophane wrapper off a bat as he walked in to bat!
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Cover_Drive, you are pretty much correct. It's the player not the bat. All you can really say about the bats that the contracted pros use is that they won't be given any duds.
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I always wanted to make this topic but due to one reason or another I wasn't really able to make one.
Anyways, over the past year or so I gained lot of knowledge on bats (thanks to all lovely people here and more importantly to this forum) so over summer I met pretty much all of Pakistani contracted players [like of Misbah Ul Haq, Younis Khan, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Azhar Ali, Taufeeq Umar, Asad Shafiq and lots of new young players] and saw there bats.
Over my stay here I have noticed one thing and thats people rate Pro bats as they have come from heaven!
Having seen few pro bats and owning few myself I can safely assure myself that pro bats are not really different than what we buy from store. Some of the pro bats I saw for example Younis Khan's CA, Misbah Uk Haq's bat and Umar Akmal's GM Flare they were 'big' than regular ones sold in market but then some bats of other players there wasn't really anything different from what we would get in the market. In fact, some pro bats looked horrible [I'm sure if they were to be put on sale on CBF without 'Pro' label no one would buy it] but performed exceptionally well.
So my opinion is that some pro bats are really massive, look nice as we all know but then most are just normal bats like us. It is the player rather than the bat after all.
WAY! At last some on that knows! pro bats are just same as any other bat we can get just they get pick of the wood that is all
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He seemed pretty particular that day! Flintoff was the ultimate non-carer - remember he once tore the cellophane wrapper off a bat as he walked in to bat!
To be fair, I've picked up a few of his bats. They were pretty special, he must have picked up some pretty good stock bats...
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This thread is a load of (No Swearing Please).
I have in my hands a bat with 35mm edges and weighing in at 2.8.
That my friends is a pro bat.
And for our good mate Majid, it has "pro ping".
The only difference between us and the pros is that they put their special bats to better use.
However, if you think for one second that they would use something off the shelf, you are dreaming.
Guys like Strauss and Cook not only select the wood they want, they sit there and WATCH the bat maker make the bat. Matty Hayden, Andrew Symonds etc also do this.
To me that sounds like someone who wants the BEST competitive advantage they can get.
So all the players in the Oz dressing room are stunned at the size of Watsons bat? Well they aren't looking hard because Usman Khawaja is using a GN with 41mm edges!
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Guys like Strauss and Cook not only select the wood they want, they sit there and WATCH the bat maker make the bat. Matty Hayden, Andrew Symonds etc also do this.
To me that sounds like someone who wants the BEST competitive advantage they can get.
Maybe, but a fair number of players don't...
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Vic - I've sourced, supplied and seen used the bats for at least 2 of the names above. You're the one talking (No Swearing Please).
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I would say that Khawaja's E41 would have 41mm edges, but the ones at the shop don't (mainly lower end ones do) due to strength concerns so that may be difference there. They are still massive though.
I would say that the pro bats are simply bigger for the weight, that would be the only differnce I think.
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Here's some pro bats that you may be interested in, Vic.
(http://i.imgur.com/b0xH0.jpg)
This is Symond's Goose, made by Tim Keeley.
Weight 2lb 9oz
Edges 31mm
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i29/02thoeva/942e2b6b.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i29/02thoeva/ecb7b6a9.jpg)
Symonds' Gray Nicolls, used in a few of the IPL games.
Weight 2lb 8 1/2 oz
Edges 29mm
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i29/02thoeva/IMG00060-20100712-1455.jpg?t=1278949822)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i29/02thoeva/IMG00061-20100712-1455.jpg?t=1278949823)
Gilchrist's Puma, used at Middlesex
Weight 2lb 9oz
Edges 33mm
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This thread is a load of (No Swearing Please).
I have in my hands a bat with 35mm edges and weighing in at 2.8.
That my friends is a pro bat.
And for our good mate Majid, it has "pro ping".
The only difference between us and the pros is that they put their special bats to better use.
However, if you think for one second that they would use something off the shelf, you are dreaming.
Guys like Strauss and Cook not only select the wood they want, they sit there and WATCH the bat maker make the bat. Matty Hayden, Andrew Symonds etc also do this.
To me that sounds like someone who wants the BEST competitive advantage they can get.
So all the players in the Oz dressing room are stunned at the size of Watsons bat? Well they aren't looking hard because Usman Khawaja is using a GN with 41mm edges!
I have sat there and watched one of my bts being made, i dont see by that happening it makes the bat any better? sure it gave me greater customer satisfaction but im not quite sure how it makes the bat better than one that was made half hour earlier whne i wasnt there?
i agree cook et al will get the best willow........
Vic who was your bat made by?
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Tom please stop posting pics of bats like that ........
im making a mess at my desk
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Vic you've gone bonkers, I am not sure where you get your info from but it's been way off the mark in most cases. Watsons bats are exeptional, Strauss gets his made by by Stu here usually, don't think he flies over each time, and please don't start going on about dvd's again either.
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interesting thread..not sure where this 'a pro cricketer chooses from 100 clefts then sits there all day while the bat is made' rubbish comes from.
It's completley untrue.
Interesting Vaughny said he could use a bat off the shelf because this happens far more than we think.Most pick up the bat,check it's got 'ping' and if it feels right they take it.
there is hardly any difference between a top of the range venom pro/newbery sps/whatever and a pro bat.
You will get some pro's who want certain things like straight grains or all white wood(tresco) but most are not half as fussy as made out on this forum.
And yes, a pro could pick up your bat(presuming it's a quality grade 1) and bat one helluva lot better with it than you(or 1) can.
The amount of people on this forum and ebay selling bat 'made for a Pro' is just embarrasing.if you want a quality bat go direct to salix/newbery/warsop/saf/any main one and you will get the best -just dont go to a shop and expect to get a deal on a pukka bat.
We all know high quality grade 1's are not over-pressed so if they break the pro's just get another one.
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all white wood(tresco)
You mean tresco uses canadian willow! :o
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This thread is a load of (No Swearing Please).
I have in my hands a bat with 35mm edges and weighing in at 2.8.
That my friends is a pro bat.
And for our good mate Majid, it has "pro ping".
The only difference between us and the pros is that they put their special bats to better use.
However, if you think for one second that they would use something off the shelf, you are dreaming.
Guys like Strauss and Cook not only select the wood they want, they sit there and WATCH the bat maker make the bat. Matty Hayden, Andrew Symonds etc also do this.
To me that sounds like someone who wants the BEST competitive advantage they can get.
So all the players in the Oz dressing room are stunned at the size of Watsons bat? Well they aren't looking hard because Usman Khawaja is using a GN with 41mm edges!
LOL what do you want me to do with the bat you have in your hands? Go suit yourself with it!
I have a Gray Nicolls bat (which I have been told is Cook's bat apparently), MB LE (which is from batch of Shahid Afridi bats) and Laver & Wood ('Pro' one as James/Andy said this is exactly how he makes the pro bats ping wise etc etc).
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I have a Gray Nicolls bat (which I have been told is Cook's bat apparently), MB LE (which is from batch of Shahid Afridi bats) and Laver & Wood ('Pro' one as James/Andy said this is exactly how he makes the pro bats ping wise etc etc).
On a similar note, a guy I played with at Uni went to a certain West Country batmaker a few years back and picked out a bat he liked, only to be tld that it was for a batch for a prominent Zummerzet all rounder and that, whilst it was for sale, it wasn't recommended as "his bats are usually (No Swearing Please)"!!!
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On a similar note, a guy I played with at Uni went to a certain West Country batmaker a few years back and picked out a bat he liked, only to be tld that it was for a batch for a prominent Zummerzet all rounder and that, whilst it was for sale, it wasn't recommended as "his bats are usually (No Swearing Please)"!!!
haha thats funny
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haha!! back on the Canadian Willow..
great place Canada,try the CN Tower if you want to cure vertigo-I did!
but not somewhere to get a cricket bat even if forum fraudsters,er,sorry I mean't forum sponsors,are selling them.
read a great quote from Mark Waugh when he was still playing(now there's an Aussie even the English fans admire) and he said,and I quote:
''they send me the bats,I don't bother doing anything to it,smash the s*** out of it in the nets,and if it has'nt busted all over the place I use it in the Test''
marvellous.........
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Personally I think the likes of Matt (h4l), Gary (redback) need to just say a few words on the subject. These are people who are involved with normal people like ourselves and professionals. They will know deep down the difference if any....
If anybody is going to know the batmaker is.
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Personally I think the likes of Matt (h4l), Gary (redback) need to just say a few words on the subject. These are people who are involved with normal people like ourselves and professionals. They will know deep down the difference if any....
If anybody is going to know the batmaker is.
+ Dan Instinct.
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Yep sorry. I should have said and any of the others out there.
Us non bat makers don't have a bloody clue really. The batmakers are professionals for a reason
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I can't agree more that we should get feedback from Instinct, h4l and Gary AS they have supplied bats to interbational players. Personally, I think there is no BIG difference between top of the line bats we buy AND pro bats. Its the batsman who makes the difference..
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why should they?
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why should they?
Why should they what? Know the most? Because they make the bats
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Tbh I'd say most of you have worked it out, at least from my experience.
- The bats might not look up to much, this depends on the pros preference as they don't all use the same shape.
- They perform better (but not out of this world), than the average shop bat.
The main and real difference comes from the person wielding it. They time it more consistently. Hit it harder. And maximise the potential of the bat.
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I knew this topic would irritate me!
does an award winning chef give away his recipes?
does a magician give away his secrets?
it is up to the bat shaver to decide what happens to his willow.
I can't believe this keeps coming up.
any way just because you have harry porters wand doesn't make to a wizard.
I have long ceased caring about whether my bat is as good as the England captains. how flat the pitch is and how good the bowlers are will make a difference as to whether I score a hundred or not.
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''just because you have Harry Potter's wand doe'snt make you a magician''
that's the best line on this forum in years
marvellous.......
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''just because you have Harry Potter's wand doesn't make you a magician''
that's the best line on this forum in years
marvellous.......
Funny you should mention that, I had someone say to me a year or so ago:
"Harry Potter's got a new wand and he doesn't know how to use it"
I genuinely laughed when I heard it as it was one of the worst sledge's I had ever heard. Just terrible, lol
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I knew this topic would irritate me!
does an award winning chef give away his recipes?
does a magician give away his secrets?
it is up to the bat shaver to decide what happens to his willow.
I can't believe this keeps coming up.
any way just because you have harry porters wand doesn't make to a wizard.
I have long ceased caring about whether my bat is as good as the England captains. how flat the pitch is and how good the bowlers are will make a difference as to whether I score a hundred or not.
Chefs do give away recipe's in cook books ;)
If magician's didn't give away their secrets how would new magicians learn the tricks, lol ;)
Bit of a smart a**E I know, lol, but I deffinately see what you mean though, only those on the inside really need to know.
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I personally think that it's a mix! Strauss seems to have his handles shapes a special way but the bat itself seems decent but no better than some of the other bats I have. Flintoffs is lovely willow but edges are nothing special but pickup is gorgeous! I remember picking up one of cooks and it was chunky with nice pickup.
And indeed a couple of others I've experienced seem to be more interested in getting the feel and pickup spot on whereas a lot of us mere mortals seem to look at grains and edge size/profile size above anything else!
Is this because the sponsored players know that they will have a responsive piece of willow reserved for them anyway, so the only thing they really need to worry about is feel and pickup? ???
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Funny you should mention that, I had someone say to me a year or so ago:
"Harry Potter's got a new wand and he doesn't know how to use it"
I genuinely laughed when I heard it as it was one of the worst sledge's I had ever heard. Just terrible, lol
do you happen to look like the wizard child? our ex opener did (even had a scar on his forehead, though not the right shape sadly) and one of the main reasons he gave up was the constant p155 taking from colleagues and opponents alike!
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This thread is a load of (No Swearing Please).
I have in my hands a bat with 35mm edges and weighing in at 2.8.
That my friends is a pro bat.
And for our good mate Majid, it has "pro ping".
The only difference between us and the pros is that they put their special bats to better use.
However, if you think for one second that they would use something off the shelf, you are dreaming.
Guys like Strauss and Cook not only select the wood they want, they sit there and WATCH the bat maker make the bat. Matty Hayden, Andrew Symonds etc also do this.
To me that sounds like someone who wants the BEST competitive advantage they can get.
So all the players in the Oz dressing room are stunned at the size of Watsons bat? Well they aren't looking hard because Usman Khawaja is using a GN with 41mm edges!
I'm sure you are a nice guy at heart Vic but there really is no point spouting this utter nonsense in a place like this; people know enough about things for you to be called on it.
You have a bat of 2'8 and 35mm edges which makes it a pro bat? Well guess what. I have a bat of 2'7 and 42mm edges that was never intended for, nor will every be a pro bat in any way. Since when was a pro bat defined by size? Bats of around 2'8 and 38mm plus edges are not at all rare, as my extreme low budget bat purchases have shown recently.
I'd like to know where you source these stories because you seem pretty confident in them yet you are the only person who knows about them. I have a feeling you have fallen hook line and sinker for the sales patter of a certain elusive bat dealer.
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JP where are you getting these cheap 'pro' bats from ?
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JP where are you getting these cheap 'pro' bats from ?
Sports Direct - my Oblivion 4* had 33mm edges... and weighed about 2lb9oz. had a lovely shark's fin too...
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the 2'7er he refers to i think was an ebay special msr :)
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I have had and currently have one of these "pro bats" In my possession not much difference at all compared to other top end bats I have had
I agree with most here the difference is the bloke wielding it as I don't care how good a pros bat is if it's the wrong profile weight etc it's not good for you
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JP where are you getting these cheap 'pro' bats from ?
Yeh as Tim said, SD and JJB sales, very low end GNs that turned out to be...well they do not look or perform differently to bats of 5 times their price.
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Hi Tom,
Firstly, I apologize for holding a contrary opinion to yours.
Secondly, I appreciate that as these test stars are all personal friends of yours who regularly pop around your place on weekends for BBQs and beer and are only too happy to give you their beloved bats to evaluate, you clearly know more about this topic than a mere mortal like myself.
Regrettably, much to my eternal stupidity, I have relied upon my own eyes seeing in pictures the bats of these stars in their own hands during a match.
Clearly, I am in the wrong, and you are right. How foolish was I not to realise that these photos are all touched up?
I am such an idiot.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/StraussBat.jpg)
Boy, if you can get a bat like Strauss with all those grains, edge width and only weighing in at 2.9 from a shop shelf...you have better retail contacts than mine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/MorganBat.jpg)
Looks like Morgan shops at teh same place as Straussy.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/DravidBat.jpg)
Dravid must have picked this up at the local shop in Kolkata.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/CookBat.jpg)
Cooky must have got this as a Chrissy present from his mum. She got it from the same shop as Straussy and Morgan I would reckon.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/ViratKohlibat.jpg)
Virat Kohli is a young cricketer with Bollywood actresses dangling off each arm....he would not have got this awesome multi grainer bat personally hand crafted. Nup, he walked into a shop in Mumbai and the wily sales assistant simply grabbed the nearest bat off the shelf.
I am so relieved that cricket superstars use the exact same off the shelf bats as us mere mortals. Now all I have to do is find out where this shop is that sells this stock stuff and I too can have the pleasure of owning a stock machine made multi grainer, low desnity willow master piece like these guys.
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I'll take my tongue firmly out of my cheek now!
Warped Aussie sense of humour at play here folks...
In any case, I respect the fact that the majority on this forum believe (rightly or wrongly) that the bats that test players use are the same or in many cases worse than what the consumer can get off a shop shelf.
I have provided photographic evidence above which would dispell that and when I return from cricket training later, I shall provide some newspaper articles which confirm that test stars get preferential treatement when it comes to their bats.
Don't shoot the messenger guys.
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mate they have all been shopping at uzi sports!!
look at these "of the shelf bats"
nitro le...
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/aqureshi2004/GrayNicolls_Bats_1-1.jpg)
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Firstly, I apologize for holding a contrary opinion to yours.
You stated it as fact Vic. It isn't a fact that Hayden and Symonds sit there and watch a batmaker at work.
I agree up to a point they get preferential treatment, in the sense that the top pros can straight ring up the batmaker and order something to their spec. They also won't get a dud. But the end product isn't a million miles away from what we can use and buy.
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You stated it as fact Vic. It isn't a fact that Hayden and Symonds sit there and watch a batmaker at work.
I agree up to a point they get preferential treatment, in the sense that the top pros can straight ring up the batmaker and order something to their spec. But the end product isn't a million miles away from what we can use and buy.
Sorry Tom.
I thought I read it in Hayden's Autobiography - perhaps I am mistaken.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/8222896/Batmaker-Gray-Nicolls-goes-to-the-crease-in-the-Ashes.html
"Some of the players – Strauss or Mark Ramprakash – will come and stand over the batmakers while they work," says Richard Gray, sales and marketing chief and one of five fifth-generation family directors.
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humm no self promotion or promotion of sponsors in a pros book. ever, that would never happen.
oh.
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Sorry Tom.
I thought I read it in Hayden's Autobiography - perhaps I am mistaken.
He wrote out a whole chapter on bats, which I copied out in this topic:
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=8070.0
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humm no self promotion or promotion of sponsors in a pros book. ever, that would never happen.
oh.
There is a whole chapter dedicated to his bats.
Have you read it?
I didn't think so...
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This thread could run it's course very soon, but my final thoughts are below:
Pros are firstly human, they have different demands and are as susceptible to trends and fads as us. They don't all visit the factories. Some do, majority don't. Some send in bat templates, others will just use anything.
A top batmaker will buy one type of willow - English Willow. Of which there's 24 or so grades. Some willow is naturally lighter. Some will perform better. Some is perfect looking. Some has stains all over. There isn't Test Player willow and Standard Willow. There's just willow.
As such it's possible to pick up a top test level performing bat on the shelf, as easily as it is to pick up the deadest piece of willow. The main difference between shop and pro is that the pro has his bats 'screened' before getting them and if they want lots of grains they'll get lots of grains but rest assured it'll perform. They get quality 99% of the time. But if you choose carefully, so can you.
Find out the bat profile which suits you. Find a bat which picks up nicely. Then choose one with a decent rebound and you won't go far wrong. Guys like Hell4Leather and Redback offer bat copying and bat making watching if you're that way inclined - but watching them make a bat won't make it any perform any better. It may help them make something which suits you though.
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yes I have read that drival a lot of it was copied on to here too, I didn't choose to believe it all.
most of it was a plug for a fine British company.
tom very sensible commentary.
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Tom- bang on
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If you've had the misfortune to come across the promotional stuff for the Hayden way, you'd be inclined to take what he says with a pinch of salt.
His gumpf is a mixture of business speak for dummies ('leisuretainment', I ask of you!), contradiction (his strong faith was not contravened by his bullying & sledging 'because it didn't go against how he interpreted the spirit of cricket), fawning to sponsors and just plain drivel.
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well said Tom
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Rumour has it Dravid had some bats made at V Sports recently when he was in England so that pic might be one of them...
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One thing I ws going to say, but I think Tom has beaten me to it, is that some of the claims on here seem to be tarring all pro's with the same brush.
I bet there are some pro's out there who are bat geeks like us, and won't use anything that is .1 of a gram too heavy, that doesn't have exactly 39.2mm edges, and must have atleast 10 grains that are no close than 3mm together but no further than 6mm apart, and moisture content must be exactly 7.6%, and the willow must be exactly the same colour as dulux desert wind 2.
That bat is probably quite hard to buy off the shelf..
But then some test pro's will just get a bag of bats sent direct from the factory, and they'll pick them up and use them in the nets, and keep the ones that feel right
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Pietersen is the least fussy I've heard of
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/bat-talk-with-haydos-and-kp/xc0a1ea
Here is Cook, Haddin and Hussey as well. Hussey seems the fussiest of the 4.
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/alastair-cook-s-bat/xt7zhnn
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/brad-haddins-bat/xa7hoi9
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/husseys-cricket-bat/x25iz02
They were all filmed during the Ashes
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Here is you have a perfect example: Hussey says he likes them to weigh exactly 2lb8.5ozs and likes the grains to be straight and evenly spaced and pick up nicely. Then you have Pietersen who says he has them made in India and really only cares about how they feel and likes them to weigh 2lb10ozs. So 2 very different players in terms of selection.
Then when Healy says to Cook "And these big edges, are they important for you" Cook laughs and says he isn't a big bat person and not that picky, as long as it feels nice in his hands and picks up good.
Who better to talk about Pro bats then the Pro's themselves.
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Cook's statement:
"If it looks good, then it gives you the mindset that it is a good bat, so I like the close-grained bat....but I'm not too picky. Some of the best bats that I've had don't look as good as they are, and then they develop into nice ones"
Sums it up pretty well I think, for most players, but as Langer says, KP isn't really at all picky, and Hussey is very picky.
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It never let's me view those videos :(
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yes I have read that drival a lot of it was copied on to here too, I didn't choose to believe it all.
most of it was a plug for a fine British company.
tom very sensible commentary.
That is a bit harsh Buzz.
In fact, the chapter on bats was not Hayden's (or Gray Nicolls) idea at all.
It was suggested by Gideon Haigh - a bat nerd if ever there was one. He suggested to Hayden to write a chapter on bats...his preferences, other players perculiarities etc etc, because young (and old) cricketers love reading about bats!
The chapter is anything but an informercial for Gray Nicolls by Hayden, as it gives a huge plug and air time to Kookaburra. Hardly kow towing to his sponsor?
Anyways, while I agree that you can occasionally fluke a bat off the shelves that would pass muster of a pro, mostly this isn't possible.
Adam Gilchrist during commentary duties once stated "the willow used by international players is not available to the general public" (or words to that effect).
That is all I will say on the matter.
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Kookaburra outsource their batmaking... so he wont have been pluging their bat makers...!
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Kookaburra outsource their batmaking... so he wont have been pluging their bat makers...!
I know that.
You know that.
I doubt that your average kid would know that Kooks are made by SG! :)
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at the end of the day a pro could score more runs than the likes of us with a broom handle.....
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Geoffrey, is that you?
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Adam Gilchrist during commentary duties once stated "the willow used by international players is not available to the general public" (or words to that effect).
Of course, any batmaker will disagree with this statement, and to be honest, a couple of the bats I have, I would too. They don't, however, come from the big boys.
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[message truncated] and please don't start going on about dvd's again either.
I have no idea what you are talking about?
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LOL what do you want me to do with the bat you have in your hands? Go suit yourself with it!
I mentioned you and "pro ping" because you were the first person I ever heard use this expression on another forum.
I am sorry you understood my pun.
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Cover_Drive and Majid are not the same person...
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Cover_Drive and Majid are not the same person...
Then why did he respond to my post in such a manner inferring that he was?
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I am growing a rhubarb plant - with the specific intention of ensuring it has enough ping for Geoffrey's Mum - it is looking good at the moment, but a bit young...
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/rhubarb1.jpg)
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Then why did he respond to my post in such a manner inferring that he was?
I do not think he intended too, they are definately not the same people.
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I do not think he intended too, they are definately not the same people.
I believe you.
Just got taken in by his response.
It's all good. :)
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I am growing a rhubarb plant - with the specific intention of ensuring it has enough ping for Geoffrey's Mum - it is looking good at the moment, but a bit young...
([url]http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/rhubarb1.jpg[/url])
Like! I have some Pro Rhubarb in my Garden. Three trees worth. It will make at least 8 sticks to play. Anyone want a Pro Rhubarb Stick? Geoffrey would use them, let alone his mum!
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stock image off google, probably kashmir rhubarb.
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stock image off google, probably kashmir rhubarb.
That's Canadian Rhubarb, if I am not wrong...
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interesting thread..not sure where this 'a pro cricketer chooses from 100 clefts then sits there all day while the bat is made' rubbish comes from.
It's completley untrue.
If you are going to slam me, at least get what I wrote right rather than making it up as you go along.
I did not say that ALL pros sit there and watch their bats being made - that is tosh.
But some pros - like Strauss - quite often DO sit around and watch a bat being made for them.
Did I say anywhere that that makes the bat better? No.
It was merely in response to a number of posts in this thread which clearly stated that "pros don't care where their bats come from" etc.
I even provided a quote which supports my claim that some pros - including Strauss and Ramprakash - DO care where/how/by whom their bats are made.
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Like! I have some Pro Rhubarb in my Garden. Anyone want a Pro Rhubarb Stick?
I would like to purchase 2, as long as you promise to rip me off and tell me which pro this would have been going too and pinging for :)...
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http://www.grays-int.com/news/201101-CKT2.aspx
No-one in the factory – perhaps even the country – has crafted bats for more cricket heroes than master bat maker John Gasson.
It is his 49th year at Gray-Nicolls and Mr Gasson rattles off the list of players he has worked with: "Strauss, Cookie, David Gower, Mark Ramprakash, Nasser Hussain, lots of the Indian players and many, many others."
Strauss, he says, is the only one he has not met, because he was on holiday.
But some of the others have stood over his shoulder in the workshop, watching every move as he balances and shapes the bat to perfection.
"It's much more demanding than when I started," he said.
"Mark Ramprakash was quite fussy. But Nasser Hussain was the worst, I think."
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I would like to purchase 2, as long as you promise to rip me off and tell me which pro this would have been going too and pinging for :)...
Well, if you want the stuff that the general public never get their hands on, the Ultra Lightweight Pro sticks, it'll cost you... I've got a couple ready for Geoff's mum, but if you get in with the right price, I can redirect them to you instead!
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Strauss obviously isn't too bothered, otherwise he'd have turned up when the batmaker was around!
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Tim - I would like one of the pro sticks with a huge sweet spot (especially when mixed with custard)
And Vic - We can all believe what a fussy git Hussain would be!! :(
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Am I missing some sort of link between the odd pro watching his bat being made, and 'Pro bats' being miles better than off the shelf bats?
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http://www.pitchvision.com/what-can-be-learned-about-batting-from-a-bat-maker-with-50-years-experience
I bet the last bat you bought didn’t get quite so much personal attention as John gives the stars.
When he hears a player is coming to get some bats he gets to work making up 12 bats. That takes about a day’s work. He used to be able to produce around 100 a day but the modern trend for thick edges and a big ‘bow’ in the blade (the curve you see along the face of modern bats) means it takes longer to press the wood and he has slowed down.
The players will come in and try the bats out, picking the 4 they like best before John finishes the job.
Some players will be happy with what he has done while others are very picky, coming back 2 or 3 times to ask for an ounce or even a half ounce to be shaved off to get that perfect balance.
John doesn’t mind, it’s their livelihood after all. It has to be right.
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Yes Vic, it appears you're discovering what I posted only a couple of pages back. That some are picky, some are not.
This thread could run it's course very soon, but my final thoughts are below:
Pros are firstly human, they have different demands and are as susceptible to trends and fads as us. They don't all visit the factories. Some do, majority don't. Some send in bat templates, others will just use anything.
A top batmaker will buy one type of willow - English Willow. Of which there's 24 or so grades. Some willow is naturally lighter. Some will perform better. Some is perfect looking. Some has stains all over. There isn't Test Player willow and Standard Willow. There's just willow.
As such it's possible to pick up a top test level performing bat on the shelf, as easily as it is to pick up the deadest piece of willow. The main difference between shop and pro is that the pro has his bats 'screened' before getting them and if they want lots of grains they'll get lots of grains but rest assured it'll perform. They get quality 99% of the time. But if you choose carefully, so can you.
Find out the bat profile which suits you. Find a bat which picks up nicely. Then choose one with a decent rebound and you won't go far wrong. Guys like Hell4Leather and Redback offer bat copying and bat making watching if you're that way inclined - but watching them make a bat won't make it any perform any better. It may help them make something which suits you though.
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As such it's possible to pick up a top test level performing bat on the shelf, as easily as it is to pick up the deadest piece of willow. The main difference between shop and pro is that the pro has his bats 'screened' before getting them and if they want lots of grains they'll get lots of grains but rest assured it'll perform. They get quality 99% of the time. But if you choose carefully, so can you.
That was the point I was making from the very start.
I have produced photos and quotes to back up my assertions.
Others here blast me, yet produce no evidence other than to personally attack me.
It's truly funny how this thread has gone from "no players watch their bats being made" to "some players watch their bats being made" after I produced uncontestable evidence that some pedantic international stars do watch at least part of the bat making process.
Clear back tracking by those who can offer nothing to the debate other than attacking me, yet conversely, someone said I was the one who is "bonkers" and had been "called out".
Argumentum ad hominem is alive and well in this forum.
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"no players watch their bats being made"
Whoever said that.
It was you who said
I have in my hands a bat with 35mm edges and weighing in at 2.8.
That my friends is a pro bat.
Did a pro watch it being made, if not, then what exactly is your point?
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Perhaps using your specialist evidence finding skills you can find the "no players watch their bats being made" comment? Then once that's done photos of the Top 6 Indian batsman using Lams (that's tongue in cheek, please no more lam speak!)
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stock image off google, probably kashmir rhubarb.
That's Canadian Rhubarb, if I am not wrong...
pah - I will take a picture of my rhubarb with a thigh pad to prove it's genuine status as future pro rhubarb.
Vic - i think you haven't made your points particularly clearly as it is only in your post above that I agree with you.
I am not sure some of the photo's you have shown prove much or some of the evidence.
I think my issue is that - as Tom said very succinctly - all top end bats are made from English willow so as a result it is possible to buy a brilliantly performing bat which a pro might have chosen. The reason they look as if they perform better is because these guys bat for their living and are typically significantly better than the rest of us - thus the reverse effect of a bad workman blaming his tools is happening.
Andy Saf once said that a Pro walked into his work shop and his first comment was "mmm nice stickers" at which point Andy wanted to throw him out..
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I think my issue is that - as Tom said very succinctly - all top end bats are made from English willow so as a result it is possible to buy a brilliantly performing bat which a pro might have chosen. The reason they look as if they perform better is because these guys bat for their living and are typically significantly better than the rest of us - thus the reverse effect of a bad workman blaming his tools is happening.
I assume that they get a sample to pick from - though the GM twitter is full of posts to FC cricketers saying 'your bats are on their way' and the player tweeting back: 'I hope you've sent a good 'un', etc.
That's Canadian Rhubarb, if I am not wrong...
I only use rhubarb nurtured in yorkshire
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I can just imagine
#GMPro - @EdlowyGMHalo where are my bats Edward - i have sold my last one on ebay
#EdlowyGMHalo - on their way, i have chosen a 20 grainer for you this time
#GMPro - great, I hope it has mega pro ping
#EdlowyGMHalo - Pro Ping - and the rest is is a 3lbs moster that picks up 2.6 you will love it
#GMPro - awesome that sounds like one of hershal's really glad he has retired now
#EdlowyGMHalo - it will wasted be on you - should have gone to #CoachBuzz but he said he didn't want to hurt #canners at the barn
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I can just imagine
#GMPro - @EdlowyGMHalo where are my bats Edward - i have sold my last one on ebay
#EdlowyGMHalo - on their way, i have chosen a 20 grainer for you this time
#GMPro - great, I hope it has mega pro ping
#EdlowyGMHalo - Pro Ping - and the rest is is a 3lbs moster that picks up 2.6 you will love it
#GMPro - awesome that sounds like one of hershal's really glad he has retired now
#EdlowyGMHalo - it will wasted be on you - should have gone to #CoachBuzz but he said he didn't want to hurt #canners at the barn
LOL
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I had one of those Pro rhubarb sticks nutured in Yorkshire but it crumbled! ;)
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I had one of those Pro rhubarb sticks nutured in Yorkshire but it crumbled! ;)
nice Pete - with or without custard/ice cream/cream?
mine turned into a bit of a fool
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Were these for sale to the public??
mate they have all been shopping at uzi sports!!
look at these "of the shelf bats"
nitro le...
([url]http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq67/aqureshi2004/GrayNicolls_Bats_1-1.jpg[/url])
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I can just imagine
#GMPro - @EdlowyGMHalo where are my bats Edward - i have sold my last one on ebay
#EdlowyGMHalo - on their way, i have chosen a 20 grainer for you this time
#GMPro - great, I hope it has mega pro ping
#EdlowyGMHalo - Pro Ping - and the rest is is a 3lbs moster that picks up 2.6 you will love it
#GMPro - awesome that sounds like one of hershal's really glad he has retired now
#EdlowyGMHalo - it will wasted be on you - should have gone to #CoachBuzz but he said he didn't want to hurt #canners at the barn
bring me a HALO LE in 2.8 and you can hurt me as much as you want in the barn ;)
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Were these for sale to the public??
In Uzi Sports, yes.
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Hi Tom,
Firstly, I apologize for holding a contrary opinion to yours.
Secondly, I appreciate that as these test stars are all personal friends of yours who regularly pop around your place on weekends for BBQs and beer and are only too happy to give you their beloved bats to evaluate, you clearly know more about this topic than a mere mortal like myself.
Regrettably, much to my eternal stupidity, I have relied upon my own eyes seeing in pictures the bats of these stars in their own hands during a match.
Clearly, I am in the wrong, and you are right. How foolish was I not to realise that these photos are all touched up?
I am such an idiot.
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/StraussBat.jpg[/url])
Boy, if you can get a bat like Strauss with all those grains, edge width and only weighing in at 2.9 from a shop shelf...you have better retail contacts than mine.
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/MorganBat.jpg[/url])
Looks like Morgan shops at teh same place as Straussy.
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/DravidBat.jpg[/url])
Dravid must have picked this up at the local shop in Kolkata.
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/CookBat.jpg[/url])
Cooky must have got this as a Chrissy present from his mum. She got it from the same shop as Straussy and Morgan I would reckon.
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cooldewd/ViratKohlibat.jpg[/url])
Virat Kohli is a young cricketer with Bollywood actresses dangling off each arm....he would not have got this awesome multi grainer bat personally hand crafted. Nup, he walked into a shop in Mumbai and the wily sales assistant simply grabbed the nearest bat off the shelf.
I am so relieved that cricket superstars use the exact same off the shelf bats as us mere mortals. Now all I have to do is find out where this shop is that sells this stock stuff and I too can have the pleasure of owning a stock machine made multi grainer, low desnity willow master piece like these guys.
SEe this, not comparable to Strauss but this is off shelf bat;
(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz97/shery13/ICON-LE2lb7oz.jpg)
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I mentioned you and "pro ping" because you were the first person I ever heard use this expression on another forum.
I am sorry you understood my pun.
Thanks Tom, peplow and others for clearing it up :)
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This was on the shelf at the GCCC in Albion
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h440/butsy1723/206874_174922115890602_109252792457535_376298_1871145_n.jpg)