Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Gunn & Moore => Topic started by: Canners on October 22, 2011, 02:57:37 AM

Title: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 22, 2011, 02:57:37 AM
Im really not buying into this Gm players thing.... over the last few days ive seen the likes of Ravi Bopara use an absolute monster of a halo that looked nothing like a Halo and Patel using a friggin huge Flare...

i think for £500 you should expect a bat as big and similar to those guys..... (although the players bats maybe overdried and decrease the life of the bat) so in that respect youd be pretty p'd off if you took the plunge and it broke pretty soon

it does make you question whether theyre actually using GM's????

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: peplow on October 22, 2011, 05:40:05 AM
I think in principle Its a 'nice' idea, but hasn't been executed well. Why would I want to pay 500 for a players bat that is 5 oz's too heavy for me, is 5oz's heavier than the player uses just so I can get a bat in the same dimensions. Also, paying 500 for a bat where no weight will be specified makes very little sense.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 22, 2011, 06:15:03 AM
Here is Ravi's Halo;

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138200/138221.jpg)

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138000/138091.jpg)

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/137800/137809.jpg)

Looks no where like a Halo, above bat has concaving whereas Halo doesn't.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 22, 2011, 06:16:33 AM
Patels Flare

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138200/138227.jpg)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 22, 2011, 06:19:30 AM
Trotts Icon

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138200/138222.jpg)

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138000/138089.jpg)

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138000/138027.jpg)

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/137800/137806.jpg)

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/136900/136999.jpg)

And Trotts Players Edition bat [on right]

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319683_10150885834815584_391552200583_21363715_475933336_n.jpg)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: 19reading87 on October 22, 2011, 07:59:13 AM
How have you got a pic of Trotts bat?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: 19reading87 on October 22, 2011, 08:03:40 AM
Also another geekish point. Bopara always uses 1 grip on his bats but you can see 2 on the bats above, which makes you think is it an Indian bat stickered up as Indian bats sometimes have thin handles....

This is just my view tho lol
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: langer17 on October 22, 2011, 09:01:53 AM
How have you got a pic of Trotts bat?

Cricket storeonline got some of the gear for the 2012 season to review, which included the Smith and Trott players bat. Trott's was 2'11 and Smith's was 2'13.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: A-Swing-And-A-Miss on October 22, 2011, 09:37:54 AM
Slightly off topic but what are the pads that Ravi is wearing?

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on October 22, 2011, 09:54:24 AM
GM RSB Original
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Buzz on October 22, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
there is a big old rip in trott's left pad!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: thecord on October 22, 2011, 11:43:04 AM
Is it just me or does Ravi's bat look huge compared to Trott's?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Ryan on October 22, 2011, 12:17:51 PM
Is it just me or does Ravi's bat look huge compared to Trott's?

Yeah it does doesnt it?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on October 22, 2011, 12:55:21 PM
And Smiths Luna  :o

(http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138000/138079.jpg)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: langer17 on October 22, 2011, 12:59:50 PM
Is it just me or does Ravi's bat look huge compared to Trott's?

It looks like all edge and no profile to me. Still massive though.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 22, 2011, 01:00:58 PM
What is David Hussey doing in the background? He looks rather chuffed.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: SempreSami on October 22, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
And Smiths Luna  :o

([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/138000/138079.jpg[/url])


That's an Epic.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on October 22, 2011, 01:05:53 PM
Hence the " :o"
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: SempreSami on October 22, 2011, 11:57:47 PM
Apols, I tend to ignore smileys.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
Im really not buying into this Gm players thing....

Well don't then! :o

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:07:37 PM
Why would I want to pay 500 for a players bat that is 5 oz's too heavy for me

Perhaps you wouldn't!  :o

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 26, 2011, 02:13:17 PM
I'm interested to know how many Players' Bats you will be making compared to the Original LE level? My suspicion is that  they won't be that large a percentage of the overall shipped volumes (and to be fair I'd also love to know which of your levels, 101-Original LE, sells the most).

Do you consider them as being alongside the Laver Signature and the Newbery Cenkos in terms of brand postion?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 02:19:48 PM
I'm very interested in seeing theses lined up against the rest of their range and see how different they actually are
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:21:31 PM
I'm very interested in seeing theses lined up against the rest of their range and see how different they actually are

Have a look here :
EDIT - have removed link as I think I will be in big trouble again. V sorry!

I think all the Players Editions bats are reviewed there

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:23:13 PM
I'm interested to know how many Players' Bats you will be making compared to the Original LE level? My suspicion is that  they won't be that large a percentage of the overall shipped volumes (and to be fair I'd also love to know which of your levels, 101-Original LE, sells the most).

Do you consider them as being alongside the Laver Signature and the Newbery Cenkos in terms of brand postion?

Very good question. Technical answer - "I don't know!" As at today, R/3 tells me we have sold 101.

Not familiar with the bats you mention I'm afraid, we just tend to think GM.

Kind regards

Edward

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 26, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
Very good question. Technical answer - "I don't know!" As at today, R/3 tells me we have sold 101.

Not familiar with the bats you mention I'm afraid, we just tend to think GM.

Kind regards

Edward
Thanks Edward. How many bats do you sell a year? This will give people an idea of how large/small a part of the business it actually is!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 02:29:57 PM
Have a look here :
[url]http://youtu.be/x_-8ynGM8yk[/url]

I think all the Players Editions bats are reviewed there

Kind regards

Edward



I'll have a look when I get back from work
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:31:45 PM
Thanks Edward. How many bats do you sell a year? This will give people an idea of how large/small a part of the business it actually is!

More than that  :D

We have no particular volume expectation of Players Edition bats, we have released them to the market (a) because we can & (b) because someone might, on a good day, want to buy one. (Well not Canners or Peplow by the sounds of things).

We launched them to the trade on September 8th.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Wills on October 26, 2011, 02:34:38 PM
Have a look here :
[url]http://youtu.be/x_-8ynGM8yk[/url]

I think all the Players Editions bats are reviewed there

Kind regards

Edward


He's plugged cricket insight as well aha ;)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Thanks Edward. How many bats do you sell a year? This will give people an idea of how large/small a part of the business it actually is!

Think about the amount of people have got themselves a bargain GM in the sales.... They must sell loads a year ;)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 02:36:17 PM
More than that  :D

We have no particular volume expectation of Players Edition bats, we have released them to the market (a) because we can & (b) because someone might, on a good day, want to buy one. (Well not Canners or Peplow by the sounds of things).

We launched them to the trade on September 8th.

Kind regards

Edward


SO would you say they are mainly made to order?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 26, 2011, 02:38:16 PM
Edward, any chance of GM making a bit thicker handles or you guys will be sticking to what you have right now?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:39:29 PM
He's plugged cricket insight as well aha ;)

Oh cripes, should I not have done that?

Admin, admin, I'm ready for you, not the big whip this time please

 :-[
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:41:05 PM

SO would you say they are mainly made to order?

Technically they are made for stock, not MTO. We can do this because of the DXM process which ensures consistency of production.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:43:29 PM
Edward, any chance of GM making a bit thicker handles or you guys will be sticking to what you have right now?

No specific plans - what are the pros & cons in your view?

Good question.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 02:46:00 PM
Technically they are made for stock, not MTO. We can do this because of the DXM process which ensures consistency of production.

Kind regards

Edward

So if they are made for stock, there must be a predicted sales target? Or would these go to the relavtive players if they are not sold?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 02:47:19 PM
No specific plans - what are the pros & cons in your view?

Good question.

Kind regards

Edward

Personally I prefer smaller handles, and width can be added onto a handle through grips - a lot more effort goes into decreasing width.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Wills on October 26, 2011, 02:47:28 PM
I'm intrigued by the argument that there is very little difference between an Original L.E. and a GM Players bat.
What would you say the differences, if there are any, between the two are?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 26, 2011, 02:51:43 PM
No specific plans - what are the pros & cons in your view?

Good question.

Kind regards

Edward

I personally feel the handles are a bit on thinner side, especially the middle of the handle looks quite thin compared to top and bottom.

Also would it be possible for GM to state weight of pro bats?

I might have a punt at Watsons Flare as I heard it is around 2.9ish, is that true?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:52:27 PM
So if they are made for stock, there must be a predicted sales target? Or would these go to the relavtive players if they are not sold?

Yes there is a forecast, but I don't have it to hand. We tend to make bats in batches and, like all manufacturers, seek to match supply with demand

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 02:53:17 PM
I'm intrigued by the argument that there is very little difference between an Original L.E. and a GM Players bat.
What would you say the differences, if there are any, between the two are?

What argument is that exactly?

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Nickauger on October 26, 2011, 03:25:14 PM
Looking at that vid, Smith's Luna looks absolutely hench!!! Big fan of that profile. Has he decided that he wants to go Epic now though and does that mean that the bat is surplus to requirements?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: petehosk on October 26, 2011, 05:12:29 PM
GM Players v Laver Signature v Newb Cenkos......
Just how mouth watering would that review be!!  :D
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 26, 2011, 05:30:42 PM
That would be up there with str8bats review of bats
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 26, 2011, 05:31:35 PM
Looking at that vid, Smith's Luna looks absolutely hench!!! Big fan of that profile. Has he decided that he wants to go Epic now though and does that mean that the bat is surplus to requirements?


If Smith doesn't need his own Luna anymore I'll happily take it off his hands - and I won't even charge ;) 
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Wills on October 26, 2011, 05:47:28 PM
GM Players v Laver Signature v Newb Cenkos......
Just how mouth watering would that review be!!  :D
v GN Legend :)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Johnny on October 26, 2011, 06:12:16 PM

Not familiar with the bats you mention I'm afraid, we just tend to think GM.


The most successful businesses keep a close eye on their competitors to make sure they don't get left behind. Techniques such as Porter's '5 forces' model should help gauge any threats or opportunities that lie within your industry, which should be a part of any organisations strategic analysis...

Or maybe the cricket bat industry is the exception?

If you fancy hiring anyone in a business intelligence/analysis type role I'll send you my CV! (especially as I may be out of work soon:( )
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 07:31:13 PM
Well once again, thanks to one and all for an interesting discussion about our Player Edition bats.

There seem to be some misconceptions about these devilishly smart products which hopefully I can shed some light on.

When we start working with a player, there is a two way dialogue between us about what the player would like in terms of bat design and what is possible in terms of technical production. With the advent of CAD/CAM as part of GM’s DXM process, in truth, if it can be drawn, we can make it.

The starting point for this dialogue is generally (a) the bat shapes we are marketing or have marketed & (b) of course, what the player is using. The bat that a player ends up with is usually somewhere between the two. Very often a player joining GM will take the opportunity of trying a different shape or tweaking what they are used to, but however long the journey is, and however many iterations we go through together, the end result is always the same – a GM DXM bat that the player favours.

Some players use our stock shapes, some don’t. For them wot don’t, the vexed question of what stickers should be used on the bat is the next discussion. There are various considerations – (a) what resemblance the Player’s bat has to a stock shape (b) shamelessly, what model we wish to promote in which territory & (c) a player preference.

Thus, a Players bat takes on the persona of a GM model.

When we work with a player, we will do whatever we can to ensure that their bat is precisely to their desire. Our role is to support the player’s performance on pitch. Our role is not to force a player to use a specific rigid design, “because it suits GM”. We view player satisfaction and success as paramount to a good relationship because of course Player Success = GM Success. This is a hard-nosed business view.

It will come as no surprise to any reader of this post that most players, affiliated to whatever brand, use Shape A (Player’s Edition) with Brand Model Labels B. The alternatives to this would be for (a) players bats to carry no model designation (not helpful or informative to the public or the trade) or (b) the brand forcing a player to only use a stock shape or (c) something more cunning that we may just have up our forearm guard.

Which brings us to September 8th and the launch of GM Player Edition bats. These bats are precise replicas of what the players use.  So yes, Canners, Ravi & Samit have their own shapes. No real surprise there. Were we to introduce Player Editions of their bats, they would be precisely to their favoured designs. We just haven’t introduced such models as yet, so forgive me but I find your post unfathomable.

As to weight Peplow, a couple of comments. Controversially perhaps, my view is that weight is allowed to become far too large a part of the selection process of a bat. My observation is that the greater the talent, the less specific the player is about weight. Pick up and feel are much more important.
We don’t sell any of our bats by weight, it isn’t practical on the scale of our business to do so. We have, for many years, focussed on Pick Up Index. Player Edition bats are guaranteed to be made from the finest timber we can get – but that timber is very much a limited resource and, as much as we love each and every one of our customers, we love our players just a little bit more. So, we will not make a promise we won’t keep. We guarantee that the dimensions of a Player Edition will be to the player’s design – that fixes the volume of timber, the weight will come from that volume times the average density of the willow.

Bottom line, I don’t think any discerning player will be disappointed with a Player Edition bat.

Why, Peplow, would you want a bat of the same dimensions as a player? You may not, in which case, why ask the question? However, other folk do, so that’s why we are making them available.

Wazza, there is no argument as to the similarities between an LE bat and a Players Edition. That is a comparison of chalk and cheese, they are entirely different by virtue of their design as outlined above. The similarity is the excellence and relevance of the materials used and the cutting edge technology and craftsmanship which is integral to any GM DXM bat from Players Edition to 303.

Hope this helps folks, thanks for joining the debate

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 07:35:33 PM
The most successful businesses keep a close eye on their competitors to make sure they don't get left behind. Techniques such as Porter's '5 forces' model should help gauge any threats or opportunities that lie within your industry, which should be a part of any organisations strategic analysis...

Or maybe the cricket bat industry is the exception?

If you fancy hiring anyone in a business intelligence/analysis type role I'll send you my CV! (especially as I may be out of work soon:( )

Oooo errr Missus! You've lost me there.

I tend to see too many businesses where they so preoccupied by the activities of other firms in their industry that they forget about their own customers and their own essential innovation.

No good just copying Charlie down the road, better to set out your own stall.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 26, 2011, 07:40:50 PM
This may be a little bit off topic, but as it's hot I might find out what I've been thinking.

The DXM+ is basically the same shape as the normal bat, but just bigger/heavier?

How does this work in the CAD process? For instance, is the same cut of the bat made in different clefts and depending on how dense they are they will be DMX+ or not? Or are they 2 set designs? Allowing the + to be the bigger of the two? Or do you purposely pick heavier clefts for this process etc?

I'm not sure if i've explained my question that well(?)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: thecord on October 26, 2011, 07:41:02 PM
I guess a balance is best.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Edward.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: langer17 on October 26, 2011, 07:49:59 PM
Mike Hussey is one of the best batsmen going around, and he has to have his bats weighing in at 2'8.5 -

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/husseys-cricket-bat/x25iz02


Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 07:59:38 PM
Mike Hussey is one of the best batsmen going around, and he has to have his bats weighing in at 2'8.5 -

[url]http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/husseys-cricket-bat/x25iz02[/url]


So he couldn't play with 2lbs 9oz?

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Sykesy51 on October 26, 2011, 08:10:13 PM
So he couldn't play with 2lbs 9oz?

Edward

Probably - but he chooses not to and a huge number of professional players are of the same opinion......
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: langer17 on October 26, 2011, 08:11:24 PM
So he couldn't play with 2lbs 9oz?

Edward

Yes he could.

I see that with the weights you meant small differences, like 0.5-1ozs, as I would think that weight does play a part in how the bat pick's up and feels.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 26, 2011, 09:07:37 PM
Yes he could.

I see that with the weights you meant small differences, like 0.5-1ozs, as I would think that weight does play a part in how the bat pick's up and feels.

Of course dead weight is a factor, but more relevant to pick up is the distribution of that weight.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: gdb19 on October 26, 2011, 09:50:13 PM
A bit off topic but I know I have seen several posts by him before and I've got to say I'm impressed that Edward (and to be fair any number of other bat makers and individuals) takes the time to come on here and give detailed responses like the one in this thread.

When I was a kid I dismissed GM kit as being a bit poncey along with hunts, I think that was all based on the people at my club who used their kit. Having bought a GM bag and now the gloves that we're on offer at sports direct I'm impressed by the GM gear and I'd consider a bat in future.

Back on topic I don't really see the appeal of the players editions bats especially given the cost. I reckon I'd rather have a go with a halo instead as they look great rather than have a copy of a players bat.



Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 26, 2011, 10:52:38 PM
Edward

Thanks for giving us your time and feedback on this thread...

I'm sure the players bats will all sell....

this forum is above all a place for discussing bats and this is all I was doing :)

I still aren't sure if you've answered whether the quality of clefts I.e lightness and looks are of a higher quality in the players bats than the le clefts?

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Hads45 on October 26, 2011, 11:11:41 PM
I have a players Flare + Luna (sample). Ill post pictures.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 26, 2011, 11:23:02 PM
Thanks,

What weight is your flare players?

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Hads45 on October 26, 2011, 11:28:03 PM
Ill weigh it exactly when i get the chance but in the 2.10s
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 27, 2011, 08:46:02 AM
Edward

Thanks for giving us your time and feedback on this thread...

I'm sure the players bats will all sell....

this forum is above all a place for discussing bats and this is all I was doing :)

I still aren't sure if you've answered whether the quality of clefts I.e lightness and looks are of a higher quality in the players bats than the le clefts?

Quite right Canners, if you can't ask a question or make a point on a public Forum, where can you?

As we say on our website, Player Editions are made from LE timber.

Being a private business we do have the luxury of trying things in the marketplace. Player Editions are a good example of this - we did not sit down and set sales targets and other projections for these items, we want to see if there is a market demand for such things. We are in the best possible position to produce Players bats because of the whole DXM process and are delighted if they meet the needs of some cricketers. We do not set out to be all things to all men (er people!), we set out to be GM.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: peplow on October 27, 2011, 09:55:51 AM
Edward, thanks for answering all the q's.
I had most queried the weight thing for buying online specifically, where it is impossible to get a feel for the bat through the screen! and therefore you may be left with something far too heavy or unsuitable for your needs, granted the better the player the more scope they'd have to play with any weight of bat, but i am only a little lad so if a 2lb 13 bat turns up i'd be a little screwed, unless it picked up like a 2lb 9!
But the bottom line as you say is that if you are buying one i am sure you wont be disappointed, as thats the reason they've bought one! and it doesnt matter if others contest the idea as they wont be buying one!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 27, 2011, 10:32:06 AM
Edward, thanks for answering all the q's.
I had most queried the weight thing for buying online specifically, where it is impossible to get a feel for the bat through the screen! and therefore you may be left with something far too heavy or unsuitable for your needs, granted the better the player the more scope they'd have to play with any weight of bat, but i am only a little lad so if a 2lb 13 bat turns up i'd be a little screwed, unless it picked up like a 2lb 9!
But the bottom line as you say is that if you are buying one i am sure you wont be disappointed, as thats the reason they've bought one! and it doesnt matter if others contest the idea as they wont be buying one!

No problem Sam, hope all good with you

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: David Bacon B3 on October 27, 2011, 02:04:34 PM
This may be a little bit off topic, but as it's hot I might find out what I've been thinking.

The DXM+ is basically the same shape as the normal bat, but just bigger/heavier?

How does this work in the CAD process? For instance, is the same cut of the bat made in different clefts and depending on how dense they are they will be DMX+ or not? Or are they 2 set designs? Allowing the + to be the bigger of the two? Or do you purposely pick heavier clefts for this process etc?

I'm not sure if i've explained my question that well(?)

I have only just picked up on this post - and am reading with great interest...

Mattw - in answers to your question;

The GM+ bats are bigger (greater volume) and for that reason will also be heavier for a given density of wood. The Icon GM+ for example will have the same profile as the Icon but will be 3 to 5 mm bigger and therefore are separate designs. As Edward has stated in this thread the DXM process allows this replication of profile.

I hope this answers your question,

Kind regards,

David
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 27, 2011, 02:17:28 PM
I have only just picked up on this post - and am reading with great interest...

Mattw - in anwers to your question;

The GM+ bats are bigger (greater volume) and for that reason will also be heavier for a given density of wood. The Icon GM+ for example will have the same profile as the Icon but will be 3 to 5 mm bigger and therefore are separate designs. As Edward has stated in this thread the DXM process allows this replication of profile.

I hope this answers your question,

Kind regards,

David

Thanks for your response, it clears it up slightly - however how do you choose which bats will be used for the DXM+ process? and when going through the process, do you set the design to for instance, make the edges a certain size? or is the DXM+ always the same size? So what I'm getting at is, are all DXM+'s the same size in cm/mm(s) and then depending on the wood density etc they will be different weights? Or do you set the DXM+ to produce a bat at a certain size, making them different weights because they are bigger/smaller in size?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 02:19:06 PM
Thanks for your response, it clears it up slightly - however how do you choose which bats will be used for the DXM+ process? and when going through the process, do you set the design to for instance, make the edges a certain size? or is the DXM+ always the same size? So what I'm getting at is, are all DXM+'s the same size in cm/mm(s) and then depending on the wood density etc they will be different weights? Or do you set the DXM+ to produce a bat at a certain size, making them different weights because they are bigger/smaller in size?


Do you really need to know all that? Are you looking to produce some GM + bats of your own ;) 
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 27, 2011, 02:22:59 PM

Do you really need to know all that? Are you looking to produce some GM + bats of your own ;)

I'm just interested...?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 02:23:43 PM
Fair do's
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Buzz on October 27, 2011, 02:24:11 PM

Do you really need to know all that? Are you looking to produce some GM + bats of your own ;) 
alternatively he is trying to find out if he goes through enough DXM+ bats he will find a low density cleft... i.e. are the bats all made to a certain size or a certain wieght. I suspect it is size and there is the possibility you could get lucky.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 27, 2011, 02:59:02 PM
alternatively he is trying to find out if he goes through enough DXM+ bats he will find a low density cleft... i.e. are the bats all made to a certain size or a certain wieght. I suspect it is size and there is the possibility you could get lucky.

The bats are made to a size.

Plus bats are designed from the ground up as separate entities to regular bats.

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Kulli on October 27, 2011, 03:03:45 PM
The bats are made to a size.

Plus bats are designed from the ground up as separate entities to regular bats.

Kind regards

Edward

Apologies for continuing the grilling, and I'm sure everyone appreciates you guys taking the time to answer, but I'm not sure if I've grasped this right, all the say, Icon DXM+ bats are cut from the same CAD programme, meaning any variation in the weights is purely down to the density of the willow used for that particular cleft?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on October 27, 2011, 03:09:10 PM
Have to say I used a Icon 808+ which weighed 2.14 and felt like a 2.11 when playing with it. I know this is a common phrase on the forum but it felt so well made, and well balanced that even Sam wouldn't have struggled! ;)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 27, 2011, 03:09:27 PM
Apologies for continuing the grilling, and I'm sure everyone appreciates you guys taking the time to answer, but I'm not sure if I've grasped this right, all the say, Icon DXM+ bats are cut from the same CAD programme, meaning any variation in the weights is purely down to the density of the willow used for that particular cleft?
That was the way that I understood it. All bats are made to a size, or volume if you like, rather than a weight, so it's the willow that drives the weight and all Flares, say will be made to the same size?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Nickauger on October 27, 2011, 03:16:13 PM
That was the way that I understood it. All bats are made to a size, or volume if you like, rather than a weight, so it's the willow that drives the weight and all Flares, say will be made to the same size?

But the pluses are made from a DXM programme which is bigger than the normal profile.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Kulli on October 27, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
That was the way that I understood it. All bats are made to a size, or volume if you like, rather than a weight, so it's the willow that drives the weight and all Flares, say will be made to the same size?

Saves us all hunting round for a huge low density GM in our weight then I guess. If that is the case then it sounds like all the skinny lads with the matchstick bats ought to be using GM's.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 27, 2011, 03:28:01 PM
But the pluses are made from a DXM programme which is bigger than the normal profile.
Well, yes, but essentially there are 13 CAM paths:

Flare; Halo; Epic; Luna; Icon; 1885; Apex
Each available in DXM, with the Icon and Flare having a GM+ and the Flare, Luna and Iconx2 having a Players edition.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 27, 2011, 03:46:18 PM
Apologies for continuing the grilling, and I'm sure everyone appreciates you guys taking the time to answer, but I'm not sure if I've grasped this right, all the say, Icon DXM+ bats are cut from the same CAD programme, meaning any variation in the weights is purely down to the density of the willow used for that particular cleft?

In best Groucho Marx voice "I'll take the grilling if you'll take a Whopper"

But seriously - there is a single CAD file for each Mens shape. So all Mens bats of a specific shape come from the same CAD file and will be the same size. Using parametric replication, smaller sizes of a specific model are precise  copies of their "seniors". An Icon has a different design to an Icon + and so uses a different file.

Mind you, Dr Streaky is the Official Spokesman on such matters, what do I know?!

Kind regards

Edward
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Nickauger on October 27, 2011, 03:46:22 PM
I think that was what I was saying lol. Same profile, different programme, so different bat.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Kulli on October 27, 2011, 03:56:27 PM
Very interesting, have to admit I've never thought how that might work before.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 27, 2011, 04:09:30 PM
Isn't there a couple of videos on how the GM process works? Would be good to go back over these if they are available to view.

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Nickauger on October 27, 2011, 04:21:34 PM
You can find them on the cricket supplies website I believe.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Johnny on October 27, 2011, 06:02:40 PM
Do you ever end up with factory 2nds? Say if a big knot is revealed after the Cnc has cut the shape? What happens to these? Do they just get graded as lower end bats?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 27, 2011, 06:26:47 PM

so a Halo L.E in 2.9 will be exactly the same size as a Halo 808 in 2.9, is that correct?

Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Buzz on October 27, 2011, 07:04:20 PM
no, a halo.2.9 would be the same as a halo 2.10 or 2.8 and different to an epic or an icon
keep up canners!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 27, 2011, 07:06:41 PM
Buzz are you sure?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 07:12:21 PM
so a Halo L.E in 2.9 will be exactly the same size as a Halo 808 in 2.9, is that correct?


ANY Halo (no matter what the weight or the willow grade) will be exactly the same shape and size, as GM use one CAM program for each model of bat (Halo, Luna etc) and each program is applied to the willow cleft, whether it be a Grade 3 piece or a LE bit of wood. So a 2lb 11oz Halo would be exactly the same shape (exactly) as a 2lb 9oz Halo. It's just willow density that affects the weight.



Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 27, 2011, 07:14:59 PM
That was my understanding of it..... Thanks Joe

keep up BUZZ ;)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: jamesisapayne on October 27, 2011, 09:14:55 PM
It's the willow density that gives different weights for the same shape bat.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 28, 2011, 07:21:16 AM
so a Halo L.E in 2.9 will be exactly the same size as a Halo 808 in 2.9, is that correct?

Canners, stay behind for extra homework!

 :o
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Edward Lowy on October 28, 2011, 07:23:14 AM

ANY Halo (no matter what the weight or the willow grade) will be exactly the same shape and size, as GM use one CAM program for each model of bat (Halo, Luna etc) and each program is applied to the willow cleft, whether it be a Grade 3 piece or a LE bit of wood. So a 2lb 11oz Halo would be exactly the same shape (exactly) as a 2lb 9oz Halo. It's just willow density that affects the weight.

Ah JoeHig - or can I call you Victor Ludorum?

 :D
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 28, 2011, 08:36:38 AM

ANY Halo (no matter what the weight or the willow grade) will be exactly the same shape and size, as GM use one CAM program for each model of bat (Halo, Luna etc) and each program is applied to the willow cleft, whether it be a Grade 3 piece or a LE bit of wood. So a 2lb 11oz Halo would be exactly the same shape (exactly) as a 2lb 9oz Halo. It's just willow density that affects the weight.

There we go, that's what I was basically asking.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Liam-SCCC on October 28, 2011, 09:46:02 AM

ANY Halo (no matter what the weight or the willow grade) will be exactly the same shape and size, as GM use one CAM program for each model of bat (Halo, Luna etc) and each program is applied to the willow cleft, whether it be a Grade 3 piece or a LE bit of wood. So a 2lb 11oz Halo would be exactly the same shape (exactly) as a 2lb 9oz Halo. It's just willow density that affects the weight.





It all seems so simple now!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 28, 2011, 09:48:25 AM
So you would assume the higher model you go the better balanced/weighted it feels + better looks/performance? Even though they are the same size and so on.

So if you had a 2.10 404 and a 2.10 Original - you would assume that the Original would pick up a lot better than the 404 even though they are actually the same size and so on?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 28, 2011, 02:39:07 PM

So you would assume the higher model you go the better balanced/weighted it feels + better looks/performance? Even though they are the same size and so on.

So if you had a 2.10 404 and a 2.10 Original - you would assume that the Original would pick up a lot better than the 404 even though they are actually the same size and so on?
Well in theory no. If two bats are the same shape and the same weight, they would supposedly pick up exactly the same. The higher model you go, the better looks and performance but if it weighs the same as a lower model and with identical shape and size they would pick up the same.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on October 28, 2011, 03:22:54 PM
In theory, GM bats would be the best to buy online as there would be little or no difference in feel compared to a team mates etc.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: peplow on October 28, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
but only if you can state weight :)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 28, 2011, 03:25:38 PM
In theory, GM bats would be the best to buy online as there would be little or no difference in feel compared to a team mates etc.

That's the advantage of a machine made bat
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: mattw on October 28, 2011, 03:40:55 PM
That's the advantage of a machine made bat

Or disadvantage...
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 28, 2011, 04:29:34 PM
Not really I slightly disagree with you guys, it is not necessary that the pick up index would be same.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Nickauger on October 28, 2011, 04:31:02 PM
They would be as long as the weights are the same.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 28, 2011, 06:17:50 PM
Not really I slightly disagree with you guys, it is not necessary that the pick up index would be same.
Why do you suggest that?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 28, 2011, 07:51:36 PM
Why do you suggest that?

Because not all GM bats have same pickup index.

For example, I have Icon Original LE which I think has pick up index of 2 and my friend also has Icon Original LE and that has pick up index of 1.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 28, 2011, 07:54:22 PM
Because not all GM bats have same pickup index.

For example, I have Icon Original LE which I think has pick up index of 2 and my friend also has Icon Original LE and that has pick up index of 1.
How is that specified on the bat?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 28, 2011, 08:03:31 PM
How is that specified on the bat?

When you buy GM bats they have a small tag which tells pick up index.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Sykesy51 on October 28, 2011, 08:18:03 PM
In theory, GM bats would be the best to buy online as there would be little or no difference in feel compared to a team mates etc.

Even though two bats may have the same dead weight and profile the pick-up can certainly be different.... The density of the willow is not always uniform throughout the length of the original cleft.  If a bat has a 'heavier' bit higher up the blade then it will, most likely, pick-up lighter than one with a 'heavier' bit lower down. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Canners on October 28, 2011, 08:19:35 PM
perfect sense
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: David Bacon B3 on October 29, 2011, 05:40:57 PM
Even though two bats may have the same dead weight and profile the pick-up can certainly be different.... The density of the willow is not always uniform throughout the length of the original cleft.  If a bat has a 'heavier' bit higher up the blade then it will, most likely, pick-up lighter than one with a 'heavier' bit lower down. Does that make sense?

...... and we've not even started talking about the handle weight - and it's effect on pick up!!

Discuss....
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on October 29, 2011, 05:43:01 PM
Ooohh Streaky you've put a spanner in the works now!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on October 29, 2011, 08:10:30 PM
I find Andy at SAF's cricket stuff explanation stuff rather helpful:


http://www.cricket-stuff.co.uk/
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: keysersolze on October 30, 2011, 08:20:47 AM
After having had the privelidge of using one of Shane watsons bats I have to say it was a great bat weighed a bit but picked up feather light. If the Gm player edition bats are the same they will be superb bats but I don't think I could bring myself to pay five hundred for one
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tim2000s on October 30, 2011, 09:58:00 AM
...... and we've not even started talking about the handle weight - and it's effect on pick up!!

Discuss....
Or how the addition of different grips will also affect this...
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 30, 2011, 05:58:44 PM
After having had the privelidge of using one of Shane watsons bats I have to say it was a great bat weighed a bit but picked up feather light. If the Gm player edition bats are the same they will be superb bats but I don't think I could bring myself to pay five hundred for one

Can you tell more about it? Weight? Swell position etc?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on October 30, 2011, 08:19:40 PM
Well the standard Flare was designed by Watson, so I'd imagine something like that.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: keysersolze on October 31, 2011, 07:15:41 AM
It was pretty much similar if not identical to the GM Flare + mid to high middle with a superb balance and pick up I would say. Though Willow did seem as if it was made out of rock and the sound when struck had a definite similarity to a clap of thunder. My friend still has it and I will see if I can get some photos of it next time I see him but it only had 7 or 8 eight grains if I remember correctly and they were not that straight it was definitely not a pretty bat but all the lads who picked up at that net session before they found out at the end of the net session it was one of Watson's bats really liked it.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 31, 2011, 02:25:28 PM
Ah okay sounds great.

Pictures would be awesome if you can provide them..
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: thecord on November 10, 2011, 11:35:18 PM
Couple of the trott players bats in my local store today, 2.11 and 2.11 and a half. Didn't seem that special but definitely a different shape to the standard bats
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: junter97 on November 11, 2011, 07:38:32 AM
That's weird look at this https://romida.co.uk/cricket-bats/2012-gm-cricket-bats-jonathan-trott-players-edition-icon-cat-no-022269.html
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: thecord on November 11, 2011, 09:34:05 AM
That description probably fits the standard shape which had plenty of concaving but the trott players had next to none
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 14, 2011, 05:14:16 PM
Here they are, I got pictures from Mapperly Sports/CRicket Sales website;

(http://www.mapperleysports.co.uk/batpics/GM_Players_Bats_1.jpg)

(http://www.mapperleysports.co.uk/batpics/GM_Players_Bats_2.jpg)

(http://www.mapperleysports.co.uk/batpics/GM_Players_Bats_3.jpg)

(http://www.mapperleysports.co.uk/batpics/GM_Players_Bats_4.jpg)

http://www.cricketsales.co.uk/page.asp?id=GMPlayers
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: The_Bird on November 14, 2011, 05:30:59 PM
Is the flare a shorter blade?? Or is it just camera trickery lol
They all look like lovely pieces of willow.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 14, 2011, 05:43:32 PM
Nope just standard size/
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Joe on November 14, 2011, 05:48:47 PM
They are much more different shapes to the normal bats than I thought, especially the Epic, it's shaped more like the Halo.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 14, 2011, 05:54:14 PM
Ross TAylors bat looks a bit Laverish.

Or thats only me?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: The_Bird on November 14, 2011, 06:05:55 PM
Maybe he used one before he was sponsored by GM and has just had them copy it?? Compared to trotts it looks to have a flat laver type face.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on November 14, 2011, 06:06:31 PM
Really really really really really really want Trott's
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: The_Bird on November 14, 2011, 10:47:45 PM
Really really really really really really want Trott's


After watching this the feelings mutual   :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUB3sJexDkw
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Simmy on November 15, 2011, 09:29:42 AM
the flare looks massive!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Johnny on November 30, 2011, 09:43:39 PM
Will you be getting many scoops in nick?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on December 03, 2011, 03:15:38 PM
Went to my local shop today where I was pleased to see two JT Players edition bats, as nice as they are the nicest pick-up/feel GM in shop was by far a Halo 808. If only I had £165 there and then I would've bought it :'(
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on December 03, 2011, 10:39:43 PM
Globe?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on December 03, 2011, 10:43:10 PM
Yep
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Ayrtek Cricket on December 03, 2011, 10:46:03 PM
What's were they priced at in there mate?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on December 03, 2011, 10:56:20 PM
£400 I think. One is 2.11 and other is 2.11 1/2.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: thecord on December 03, 2011, 11:33:18 PM
Yea I didn't think those two jt players were that special, certainly not £400 special!
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on December 03, 2011, 11:36:17 PM
More to dislike about it than like in my opinion.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: thecord on December 03, 2011, 11:37:16 PM
Have globe got much other 2012 gear in yet colesy?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on December 03, 2011, 11:47:51 PM
Yes, 2012 Kookaburra, Puma, GM, GN, Boom Boom, M&H, and some others but that's what I remember. Couple of GN100s which were very nice.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 03, 2012, 03:24:59 PM
Anyone know where I can get 2.9ish GM Shane Watson Players?

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tushar sehgal on October 03, 2012, 03:37:52 PM
Anyone know where I can get 2.9ish GM Shane Watson Players?

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

At B3 cricket ;)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 03, 2012, 03:52:54 PM
At B3 cricket ;)

Haha that would be bootlegged then :( ;)
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: roco on October 03, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
I'm sure he could do shape as he would have programmed it at gm
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 03, 2012, 04:46:53 PM
I know he can do it, in fact, I know people who are getting it done.

But I prefer getting the 'real' thing. Prices won't be very off anyways...
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: keysersolze on October 03, 2012, 05:16:23 PM
Good luck with that one Tusharshegul I have a mate who has 2.9 Watson Flare edition beautiful bat but hard to come by at 2.9 as GM don't quote specific weights just pick up index.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Cover_Drive on October 03, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
Mind telling where he bought his from?
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: tushar sehgal on October 03, 2012, 06:12:37 PM
Good luck with that one Tusharshegul I have a mate who has 2.9 Watson Flare edition beautiful bat but hard to come by at 2.9 as GM don't quote specific weights just pick up index.

At B3 you can specify weight/shape/profile so why can't it be done? especially if you are paying top money then everything is possible (Bespoke option)...
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: procricket on October 03, 2012, 06:42:25 PM
I know he can do it, in fact, I know people who are getting it done.

But I prefer getting the 'real' thing. Prices won't be very off anyways...

Ah the watson shape where is yash
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: Colesy on October 03, 2012, 06:43:48 PM
Aren't Players Edition bats fairly heavy though? Having said that I'm sure a 2.10 would be just as good as 2.9 because of how well it picks up.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: yvk3103 on October 03, 2012, 07:09:23 PM
As far as I know, majority of the JT and SW bats are around the 2lb10oz mark. The heaviest Players bat is the GS Epic @ around 2lb13oz.

The SW Players bat has a high middle so, pick-up will be better than on a similar weight JT.
Title: Re: GM PLAYERS BATS
Post by: yvk3103 on October 03, 2012, 07:11:19 PM
Ah the watson shape where is yash

Dave, I have something very similar to the SW profile coming - 2lb9oz with massive edges and clean grains. I have added my touch to it by having the spine profile extended by 20mm, so a longer middle