Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Your Kit => Topic started by: tim2000s on December 15, 2011, 10:22:05 AM
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Right, I know this maybe preaching to the converted amongst most people on here, but I've a couple of observations for you all on knocking your bat in properly.
I've been using a few of the old, used, ebay bats that I have in the nets, alongside a couple of other things that I've picked up. The older bats mostly have tremendous middles and go a lot better than I would have expected. They also have been used for a while and therefore are well knocked in. Three of them go like rockets! I've also used a couple of bats that are not fully knocked in alongside my match bats from last year and these.
There is a noticeable difference. It does beg the question as to how many people on the forum really, honestly, hand on heart, knock their bats in properly? Are many people using bats that need some work and therefore the willow is not responding as it could?
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Are you suggesting that a bat that is a season old - has about 500 runs on the board (plus associated net sessions) is about perfect?
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I would say the Asian bats take less of a time to get knocked in properly;
And yes, in my honest opinion a bat which has yielded 500 runs is at its prime.
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Are you suggesting that a bat that is a season old - has about 500 runs on the board (plus associated net sessions) is about perfect?
I am suggesting that buying a season old bat as a bargain is absolutely the right way to get a bat that is perfect for most amateur users.
I'd add the caveat that if you are a star batsman who has scored 2000 runs with your bat this season, it probably isn't quite so perfect, but generally, yes I think that's what I am saying.
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I'd agree with that. I really think 'proper' knocking in takes a lot longer than we all think. I know I am fairly lazy about it. I tend to try and buy my bats 'ready to go' but even then I don't reckon I see the best of them for at least half a season.
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I am positive alot of bats that guys are using on here aren't prepared properly, either oiled or knocked in just by observations I have made.
There are a couple of things I look for when knocking a bat in to make sure it is ready to use.
1. After knocking in with mallet check with ball or ball on a stick to see if it still makes seam marks
2. I look at the grains while knocking the bat in. When they start to slighty part right on the grain line I know they are perfect and ready to go. ( I have mentioned this "opening" of the grains previously on here before but it wasn't understood what I meant so tomorrow I will take a close up pic of the grains on my Laver to show you what I mean by opening or parting of the grains)
I also roll the edges on the bath tub
Using these techniques and observations I have never had a bat crack or break in the 30 years I have played cricket
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agree on both points. I know exactly what you mean on point 2. I'd go so far as to suggest buying a bat pre-xmas and using indoor nets (with old balls) as additional knocking in, once you have knocked the bat in.
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I have never been a big knocker in of bats, normally and hour on edges and toe, then scuff sheet and a rack or 10 on the Bola. That has been on the advice if the sellers, all being companies as well as forum members
That's what I did with my Talisman and it scored me a lot of runs and went brilliantly! It was the handle that went in the end, that's why I know that when it comes back from Mike with a new handle that it may walk straight back into my match bat slot! It certainly was getting to its prime when it broke, it went 49, 48, 63, 69 and was wonderful to use
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I'd go so far as to suggest buying a bat pre-xmas and using indoor nets (with old balls) as additional knocking in, once you have knocked the bat in.
This has always served me well with my bats till some clown turns up with a brand new cherry and wonders why everyone with a new bat runs for cover, something I'd like to know is how much knocking in is needed with GM now/pre-prepared bats? How do these processes differ from the good old fashioned way and Also edges rolled on a bath tub? Please explain lol
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This has always served me well with my bats till some clown turns up with a brand new cherry and wonders why everyone with a new bat runs for cover, something I'd like to know is how much knocking in is needed with GM now/pre-prepared bats? How do these processes differ from the good old fashioned way and Also edges rolled on a bath tub? Please explain lol
Thought it was pretty self explanatory...Roll the edges on the edge of the bath tub to round them off and harden them
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Also edges rolled on a bath tub? Please explain lol
I guess its like pressing, although its specifically presses the edges.
When you knock in the edges, you can miss bits but rolling them on a bath is a firm surface and repeating the process helps to keep edges intact.
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I have never been a big knocker in of bats, normally and hour on edges and toe, then scuff sheet and a rack or 10 on the Bola. That has been on the advice if the sellers, all being companies as well as forum members
That's what I did with my Talisman and it scored me a lot of runs and went brilliantly! It was the handle that went in the end, that's why I know that when it comes back from Mike with a new handle that it may walk straight back into my match bat slot! It certainly was getting to its prime when it broke, it went 49, 48, 63, 69 and was wonderful to use
You have had a few bats that have broken though Liam.. Maybe this is the reason behind it.... Don't know
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I guess its like pressing, although its specifically presses the edges.
When you knock in the edges, you can miss bits but rolling them on a bath is a firm surface and repeating the process helps to keep edges intact.
Thanks for the explanation bud :D
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I knock the edges and toe for about an hour or so and leave the rest of the bat alone if I dont see any seam marks when tapping up with a ball. I then go to nets and give it to the big hitters in the team. That normally does the job of knocking i in nicely
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There is a noticeable difference. It does beg the question as to how many people on the forum really, honestly, hand on heart, knock their bats in properly? Are many people using bats that need some work and therefore the willow is not responding as it could?
Interesting that you raise this - a few years ago I took to using a new bat in the nets and in midweek/Sunday games for at least half a season before using it in a League game. I don't always think that this is totally necessary - there are bats that are ready much sooner than that, also ones that only reach their best when they are dropping to pieces - but I've found it to work.
Of course, it means I have two lovely white bats in my bag at league games and walk out with a battered B52 that looks like its seen at least one major international conflict...
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GM Prepped bats, as I found out to my cost, need plenty of additional knocking in. 30 mins didn't cut it and my GM went back with a fairly significant crack. Maybe up to 2 hours really ought to be enough. The GN's seem much harder and Simmy used his with no knocking in or ill effects.
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GM Prepped bats, as I found out to my cost, need plenty of additional knocking in. 30 mins didn't cut it and my GM went back with a fairly significant crack. Maybe up to 2 hours really ought to be enough. The GN's seem much harder and Simmy used his with no knocking in or ill effects.
thought here - a lot of people only really seem to knock in the "danger zones" around the edges of the bat. How many really give the middle any attention?
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I give the whole bat a good going over and as I said check for seam marks grain opening over the whole bat
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You have had a few bats that have broken though Liam.. Maybe this is the reason behind it.... Don't know
I have, although the last 2 I broke during the season were both handles.
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I knock in all over. The edges and toe are at most risk but that doesn't mean the middle won't crack.
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I'd say it also depends how much time you spend knocking bats, some of us who knock our bats are leaving then underknocked when we think its knocked.
One should know optimum level.
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I'd say it also depends how much time you spend knocking bats, some of us who knock our bats are leaving then underknocked when we think its knocked.
One should know optimum level.
I would suggest that 6 hours of knocking in will leave it more than ready...
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it's really human nature. You get a new bat and you want to play with it. Not spend hours smacking a mallet against it in your garden.
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I would suggest that 6 hours of knocking in will leave it more than ready...
I agree Tim...6 hours is a rough guide... Use it at your own risk if used before ready
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I would suggest that 6 hours of knocking in will leave it more than ready...
I concur.
Also maybe this might sound stupid but mallet makes a difference too! The previous mallet I had was so crap that it wouldn't intend the bat at all! So mallet should be good enough to intend the face so then you can even out the whole face.
Is it just me but I have seen some bats getting indentation when knocking/after having first net session while others don't? I believe pressing plays a role here....maybe Tim/Norbs can shed some light on it..
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The way I have been going with my cricket shopping spree last few weeks my wife might knock in my bat with my head :(
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The way I have been going with my cricket shopping spree last few weeks my wife might knock in my bat with my head :(
hahaha - i know the feeling :o
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One question I have always wondered is, when we pay extra from a maker to have our bat knocked in for us how much time do they actually spend doing it? I can't really imagine any maker having the facilities or the time to be able to knock in so many bats by hand properly. Is it money well spent or are we better off saving the money and doing it ourselves? I appreciate this will differ from maker to maker but it's still something that interests me....
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I concur.
Also maybe this might sound stupid but mallet makes a difference too! The previous mallet I had was so crap that it wouldn't intend the bat at all! So mallet should be good enough to intend the face so then you can even out the whole face.
Is it just me but I have seen some bats getting indentation when knocking/after having first net session while others don't? I believe pressing plays a role here....maybe Tim/Norbs can shed some light on it..
This is the one I use...I think it's a Puma
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x406/number414/mallet.jpg)
One question I have always wondered is, when we pay extra from a maker to have our bat knocked in for us how much time do they actually spend doing it? I can't really imagine any maker having the facilities or the time to be able to knock in so many bats by hand properly. Is it money well spent or are we better off saving the money and doing it ourselves? I appreciate this will differ from maker to maker but it's still something that interests me....
I know it is more convenient to get the batmaker to knock the bats in but I always do my own...Might sound stupid but you learn about the bat while doing it
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I always knock in my bats myself; if the pressing is too hard I use the following mallet: takes care of all problems
(http://www.superherotimes.com/news/images/480--ThorHammer.jpg)
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This is the one I use...I think it's a Puma
([url]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x406/number414/mallet.jpg[/url])
I haven't tried that one yet but from what I have heard from people that one is quite effective and good.
By the way, I agree with all of your points made in previous page and this page :)
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One question I have always wondered is, when we pay extra from a maker to have our bat knocked in for us how much time do they actually spend doing it? I can't really imagine any maker having the facilities or the time to be able to knock in so many bats by hand properly. Is it money well spent or are we better off saving the money and doing it ourselves? I appreciate this will differ from maker to maker but it's still something that interests me....
Exactly, I wonder the same.
I think it is worth saving the money and knocking it ourselves, as Number4 said you get to know your bat where sweetspot is etc etc
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One other interesting topic has been 'overknocking'; we have discussed this a few times in the past in a few different places. Personally I feel that unless the willow is brutally overdried and soft pressed, and I mean brutally, it will be extremely difficult to overknock a bat. What do you guys feel?
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http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=250.0
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One question I have always wondered is, when we pay extra from a maker to have our bat knocked in for us how much time do they actually spend doing it? I can't really imagine any maker having the facilities or the time to be able to knock in so many bats by hand properly. Is it money well spent or are we better off saving the money and doing it ourselves? I appreciate this will differ from maker to maker but it's still something that interests me....
[Erm very little] has been my (limited) experience. I had a pre-prepared M&H further knocked in at my local sports shop, and no way was it done for as much as what I'd like.
To that extent I've always preffered the idea of a machine knocking a bat in. What sort of nutter is willing to knock a bat in for the recommended howevermany hours for £30?! At least with a machine you know it's been worked on for a long time consistently.
Didn't someone on here have an idea of using a chisel function on a drill to knock a bat in :D? One of my mind-wandering thoughts is based on possible knocking in automations (like the chisel function on a drill), though haven't as yet come up with anything!
I do appreciate the more modern distinction appear in bat descriptions now which admits "knocked in" does not (at all) mean fully ready to play
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I think Bellingham and Smith or maybe Spyder use a knocking in 'machine' like that. A dirty great jack hammer thing with a mallet attachment on the end! It's definitely an SA brand. I remember seeing a video on their website with them using it.
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Serious Cricket have that machine for knocking too.
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As do CJI
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I think Bellingham and Smith or maybe Spyder use a knocking in 'machine' like that. A dirty great jack hammer thing with a mallet attachment on the end! It's definitely an SA brand. I remember seeing a video on their website with them using it.
Yeah it looks like the leg of a table in the jack hammer... I think is also a pic of them boning the blade...Bone looks like a bloody Elephants shin bone...haha
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Number4 mate a question for you, I also rub edges to bath tub but do you do that for bats which come with scuff sheet on them as well or only for bats without scuff sheet? [thats what I do, only without scuff sheet).
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Eh? Rub edges on bath tub?
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Eh? Rub edges on bath tub?
Two post earlier explained them :)
I guess its like pressing, although its specifically presses the edges.
When you knock in the edges, you can miss bits but rolling them on a bath is a firm surface and repeating the process helps to keep edges intact.
Thought it was pretty self explanatory...Roll the edges on the edge of the bath tub to round them off and harden them
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As do CJI
as do Kippax
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Just picking up on Tims point. I see quite a few fairly new bats for sale on here. These haven't matured as yet. As well as knocking in, bats require playing in too. All this takes time. A bat is at its peak when you start getting small surface cracks along the grains etc. ie well played in. They are the ones to go for as they are usually dirt cheap too.
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Interesting points, i think older bats probably feel good as they are soft but this doesnt mean they are the best performing.
Newer bats will feel harder but will likely have more punch to them.
I'd say after the first couple hundred runs or so is when a bats in its prime from my experience.
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Interesting points, i think older bats probably feel good as they are soft but this doesnt mean they are the best performing.
Newer bats will feel harder but will likely have more punch to them.
I'd say after the first couple hundred runs or so is when a bats in its prime from my experience.
So how does knocking in work? It hardens the face of the bat by compressing the willow to a depth of a couple of millimetres. Using the bat then adds to this compression. While the bat is in this state it is not soft.
Use it some more and you will start to destroy the cell structure and crack the "crust". This is your soft point. I can assure you the use of a bat in this state does not feel good. En equally, the new bat is not as hard as the knocked on bat as this annealing process has not yet taken place.
Ergo, a bat used by a tail ender over a number of years is likely to be nicely knocked in as it won't have scored huge runs and as long as it was treated properly will be perfect for use, and cheap!
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Number4 mate a question for you, I also rub edges to bath tub but do you do that for bats which come with scuff sheet on them as well or only for bats without scuff sheet? [thats what I do, only without scuff sheet).
CD I don't use scuff sheets. Tried them but don't like them.
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Ergo, a bat used by a tail ender over a number of years is likely to be nicely knocked in as it won't have scored huge runs and as long as it was treated properly will be perfect for use, and cheap!
Do you have some bats for sale Tim?...haha
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CD I don't use scuff sheets. Tried them but don't like them.
Ah okay what if a bat has one applied on its face, any suggestion how to get edges rounded off? Mallet or bath tub?
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I also roll the edges on the bath tub
I always prefer to work on my wood in the shower, makes cleaning up easier.
I just got this image of you in my head sitting naked in the bath with your specs on rubbing your bat along the edge of the bath tub! Yikes!!
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Could you please have spared us the details >:(
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I always prefer to work on my wood in the shower, makes cleaning up easier.
I just got this image of you in my head sitting naked in the bath with your specs on rubbing your bat along the edge of the bath tub! Yikes!!
Sick sick man Josh....haha
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Ah okay what if a bat has one applied on its face, any suggestion how to get edges rounded off? Mallet or bath tub?
Maybe a rolling pin or something that rolls along the edges as opposed to being dragged across them
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I use the handle of the mallet - seems to work ok.
As a rule of thumb - if you think your bat is ready - give it another hour and away you go. I am not sure about waiting for the grains "to open up" I think that is a little overkill personally - but it was noticible at the batoff I attended the used bats performed better than the brand new bats.
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anyone fancy making a video to demonstrate this "bath rolling" technique? i have a lot of problems with edges, particularly the inside edge, so i'd like to learn from you more experienced chaps
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anyone fancy making a video to demonstrate this "bath rolling" technique? i have a lot of problems with edges, particularly the inside edge, so i'd like to learn from you more experienced chaps
Seconded.
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rob pack at Blue Room uses a horses shin bone to "bone" the edges...works very well. havent had and edge damage at all.
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i dont need to touch the edges cos i middle everything :D
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i dont need to touch the edges cos i miss everything :o
about right.
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rob pack at Blue Room uses a horses shin bone to "bone" the edges...works very well. havent had and edge damage at all.
I think you will find most do this
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about right.
:lol:
that is more the truth yes! lol
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being a bit harsh on the big lad here. Having witnessed a Simmy 100 (we made him retire after 20 overs lol) and a few other knocks I can confirm he finds the middle and the edges.
Middle of the toe and splice mind you.
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I think you will find most do this
Thanks for earlier suggestion.
Puma/Blueroom is pretty much the only brand I have seen whose esges are rolled, even lower end ones which are made in India have edges rounded etc exactly same how top end ones are.
Not sure if Rob finishes all of lower end bats as well
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Thanks for earlier suggestion.
Puma/Blueroom is pretty much the only brand I have seen whose esges are rolled, even lower end ones which are made in India have edges rounded etc exactly same how top end ones are.
Not sure if Rob finishes all of lower end bats as well
I know Julian Millichamp bones the edges with horses shin bone and pretty sure Laver does as well
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Thanks for earlier suggestion.
Puma/Blueroom is pretty much the only brand I have seen whose esges are rolled, even lower end ones which are made in India have edges rounded etc exactly same how top end ones are.
Not sure if Rob finishes all of lower end bats as well
Humm - I cannot speak for Asian brands, but almost uk brands roll the edges - it is part of finishing the bat.
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Humm - I cannot speak for Asian brands, but almost uk brands roll the edges - it is part of finishing the bat.
I know Julian Millichamp bones the edges with horses shin bone and pretty sure Laver does as well
Hmm - Actually the Puma/Blueroom edges are 'more' rounded than like of Screaming Cat, Laver & Wood etc
Maybe Laver & Wood, Screaming Cat etc are also rounded BUT probably not as rounded as Puma/Blueroom ones.
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Here ya go CD... This vid shows Julian boning the egdes at 2.36m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiyNeql7Jmg&feature=player_embedded#!
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Pretty sure you'll find them rolling the edges in this video from Bellingham and Smith. As has been said before it looks like it's an elephants shin bone!
http://www.bellinghamandsmith.co.za/media
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Here ya go CD... This vid shows Julian boning the egdes at 2.36m
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiyNeql7Jmg&feature=player_embedded#[/url]!
Yes, I know he does it but the edges are more rounded on Puma compared to Screaming Cat, will try to get pictures and show this.
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Yeah the edges are very very rounded on Pumas. I round off the edges by just hitting the edges at a 45° angle, like it says on the Laver website.
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I'd bump this again :).
Today I got my Redback Paradox LE (and long awaited mallet ;-) :P) and as soon I got it I took out Dukes ball I have and checked its ping so after that I started knocking and knocked the bat whenever I was able to throughout the day (still not fully knocked) so at the end of the day I again bounced the ball and saw clear difference between before knocking and after, again as I said its not fully knocked but there is big difference in ping.
It is quite amazing to see how big of a difference knocking makes.
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hmmm interesting thoughts.
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Bump again :).
So since James Laver and Julian Millichamp both suggest that when knocking bat we should hit mallet hard enough on the face so it causes indentation over the face and then evening it out.
So while doing this I have seen cracks forming which I'm told are perforamance cracks.
Discuss.
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Indentations happen; but cracks should not really develop; if they develop too quickly then either the pressing is just too soft or there might be compression damage but I will go for the former.
Just to add: the indentations too should not be too overwhelming.
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I've never been able to hit a bat hard enough to make a dent, apart from soft pressed kashmir bats.
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Yes--- the indentations at most should be small that too at the beginning when you start knocking the bat in.
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if is very thin hairline "cracks" then dont worry about it too much
i think the theory is to create a hard outside layer so sounds like you are doing a thorough job.
It has also been discussed how oil helps soften the top layer of wood and helps the fibres bond together.
IF the bat is lightly oiled and there are a few thin cracks i might think of giving it a touch of oil, leave it over night and continue knocking then if you think it needs a bit more.
If the cracks have any width then i would consider contacting manufacturer. You could put pictures up
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What if it is already scuffed mate?
By scuffed I mean scuff sheet..
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What if it is already scuffed mate?
By scuffed I mean scuff sheet..
This is why i dont like scuff sheets being on a bat from new - you dont know at all how much oil has been applied - I've got a GN Longbow and for the first couple of seasons it was awful to use - got sick of and took the scuff sheet off - sanded it down and applied a teaspoon of oil and then did 6 hours of proper knocking in on it and it now feels properly knocked in.Mind it has taken about 7-8 years to get to this point!!
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That is commitment to a bat! I like it! ;) You're a far more patient man than most on this forum!