Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: adam1312 on February 14, 2012, 05:40:08 PM
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BAck and across
DO you take guard then in your trigger move step so you are on your guard?
MOST IMPORTAINTLY
How do you time your trigger move?
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If you need to ask, it won't work for you! It should be completely second nature, and if it isn't, it will take concentration away from all your other cues!
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Simple, DON'T!
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many people have triggers!
only time i trigger to off is if i want to moooo one from outside off to cow lol
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I used to trigger across but then I took Sir Buzzs advice on not having a trigger so it made a big difference so as Tim said simply don`t have trigger.
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I only trigger to quicker bowlers but if I do I time my trigger to finish just before ball is delivered so head still when ball is delivered
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use the search function this question has been asked a few times.
if in doubt stand still.
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All Essex coaches told me to use a trigger. If your a decent player facing decent bowling then they are very helpful.
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The alternative is to balance on the balls of your feet so you are ready to move. That's what a trigger is for after all...
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The alternative is to balance on the balls of your feet so you are ready to move. That's what a trigger is for after all...
which is good enough for sachin and the stig...
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I find the whole trigger debate interesting. They can be good at getting your feet moving and moving your body into a more dynamic position.
If your going to use one i'd say do it early as to be balanced when the ball is bowled.
A number of top players use them so they cant be too bad. As essexarsenal said maybe they are more useful against better bowling which requires faster reactions and there is less room for errors.
Its also important to differentiate between the different triggers depending on bowling type.
Against a real quick you may want to just go back and with your back foot.
For medium bowlers then the same back and across movement but also a small movement forward.
Against spin there is no real need to go back so just a move forward with the front foot is fine.
All that said I dont generally use one, though if Im struggling to get my feet moving then Ill give it a go.
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I think triggers become second nature when you are in form, sometimes the absence of them says more!
However if you are struggling with moving your feet then take a look at the deliveries you are struggling with first ie. wide outside off or dealing with short balls might mean a back and across movement. If you are late on full deliveries perhaps a slight forward press. Raising your bat early might also help free those twinkle toes up. Worth a bowling machine session to identify the cause and work on a remedy.
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Trigger movements have been discussed loads of times before - here are a few
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=11721.msg188469#msg188469
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=12382.msg198865#msg198865
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=9365.msg147432#msg147432
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=8290.msg188349#msg188349
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=6170.msg89183#msg89183
And just for good measure..
Trigger movements
In my experience, the refrain ‘I am having trouble with LBWs’ is frequently mentioned in the same paragraph as ‘I trigger back and across’. Well, at least 99 per cent of the time. It is not to say that the trigger is at fault, but more that this can be a symptom of this particular movement.
The first things that you should be concerned with are where you stand and what your stance is. It is a modern fad that batsman are encouraged to stand with a wide base and then have a trigger movement. Personally, I see people trying it, but I believe it totally over-complicates batting – watching an out-of-form Kevin Pietersen or Paul Collingwood will emphasis this point.
Your stance should be comfortable and relaxed, a trigger is used to release the tension and help your feet move against fast bowling. Unless you are playing Division 1, Premiership or a higher standard, I think it is unlikely you are facing anyone fast enough to make it worth considering a trigger movement. Look how still and balanced Michael Clarke, Matt Prior or Eoin Morgan are at the crease, even against the quickest of bowlers – these players thrive on simplicity of technique, which I like to encourage.
If you must have a trigger movement, ensure that it takes you into the correct position, rather than moving you away from the correct position, which is the classic fault of an amateur cricketer. If you have a chance, watch how Ian Bell and Jonathan Trott play – they are two wonderful contemporary technicians, who are very relaxed and natural at the crease; when they play, their trigger movements almost glide into position. Both aim to retain a still head.
As I have said, the key is in the position you are standing when the ball is released, which must be still, regardless of trigger movements, with your leading eye (or outside eye) over the off stump. To get this right, work backwards from where you need to be at the moment of release – your right eye (if you are right-handed) should be over off – stump. You might need to spend some time in front of the mirror to get this right – work out where your trigger takes you and take a guard that results in your ability to arrive in the right position to play the ball. Your key objective should be to stop moving into a position that leaves you vulnerable to being ‘trapped’ or ‘pinned’ on the crease and then either out bowled or more likely LBW.
A useful practice method is to have someone underarm used tennis balls (so they don’t bounce as much) at you get used to your new stance and batting routine. This is an especially good way to work on the front foot shots, while you practise either with or without your trigger. Then, progress to over arm tennis ball deliveries and, finally, facing a cricket ball.
Just to reiterate, I warmly encourage you to ditch the trigger!
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The alternative is to balance on the balls of your feet so you are ready to move. That's what a trigger is for after all...
If its good enough for Sachin I'll give it a go. Personally I think little tips like this and the suggestions on here are one of the best things about this forum. I had quite a bit of coaching when I was younger but after 10 years away from cricket stuff like this makes me think more about my game. feet movement is definitely an area I need to improve on.
Now all I need is someone to teach me how to defend properly, pick the right ball to hit - and bowl about twice as fast as I currently do.
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Personally, I use my finger to pull the trigger and bang.
Tbh, I tried using a trigger and it over complicated my batting. I'm still small but my reactions have improved, so I don't feel I need it as much at the level of cricket I play atm.
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DO you take guard at 2 (middle and leg) and step across to middle and off in you trigger
OR
Take guard on middle and start on leg and step across to middle in your trigger
?
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Do you take guard at 2(middle and leg) then step across to middle and off in your trigger
or
Take guard at middle and start at leg then step across to middle in your trigger
?? ??
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Do you take guard at 2(middle and leg) then step across to middle and off in your trigger
or
Take guard at middle and start at leg then step across to middle in your trigger
?? ??
I was taught to take guard at leg stump and move back and across to your stance, mine was middle.
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is Morgan's rediculous crouch not the same thing as a trigger movement Buzz? strikes me if he stood taller he'd be a lot more relaxed at the point on contact
as Buzz has mentioned before a trigger can manifest itself in many ways, from maybe a forward press of the wrists to conscoiusly making the bat horizontal at pull back like Robin Smith used to. If your feet need to move it should surely serve a purpose more of getting in line with the ball, there's not a lot of point moving your back foot to off stump if the ball is then on leg stump. I personally do have a back and across trigger i always have had but it's more like Kallis, in that it's a long way before the ball is delivered, it's more as the bowler aproaches his delivery stride and then everything is still as i need to make a judgement on length and line. If i don't have a half movement back i find it difficult to get my front foot moving forward, but i don't start from a very wide base and the bat tap is behind my back foot which isn't something you see that often with modern players, atleast not from ones outside of the subcontinent, can only think that has something to do with having quicker wrists
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is Morgan's rediculous crouch not the same thing as a trigger movement Buzz? strikes me if he stood taller he'd be a lot more relaxed at the point on contact
yes.
Adam, asking the questions you are suggests you don't really understand the point of a trigger.
can I suggest you read the section in bob woolmer's book on triggers.
it also says if you don't face quick bowling you should stand still.
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Ok, what I personally find is this.... (I play Premiership cricket so face some sharpish bowlers)
My biggest fault is over-balancing - head goes over and then can't get back to the ball and then being given out LBW. But I find if I put my weight on my heels then go back and across it helps me to get my feet in the right place. Head is much more stable and it gives me a feeling of being in better balance. It also helps to give a bit more time to play the ball.
My trigger is to move when the bowler reaches the delivery stride and then keep my head level and still when the ball is coming down.
Against slower bowlers and when I'm in, I don't ever think about triggers or actually what I'm doing - just try to react to the ball. It's just when I first go the crease I find that it helps me to get my feet moving better and to have that bit more time to watch the ball.
I can see completely that triggers aren't for everyone as you can think about them too much instead of watching what the ball is doing. Batting should be as natural as possible
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I haven't found what I wanted on Trigger movements (life is too short and I have written my views many times..)
However, this might be worth a read, please note the end conclusions. (no I did not write this)
How important is a trigger movement to your batting success?
http://www.pitchvision.com/trigger-movements
To move or to keep still, that is the question.
Many first class batsmen have a trigger movement of some kind: That shuffle of the feet just before the bowler delivers the ball that gets you into position. Yet the coaching books are adamant about keeping still.
Who is right?
Should you be using a trigger move?
As with all great cricketing questions the answer is 'it depends'.
Head still, eyes level
Batting, like any ball striking skill, is about being balanced and meeting the ball in perfect coordination with the body's movements. That is what timing is all about.
It all starts as the bowler releases the ball and you have that fraction of a second to decide where the ball is going and what shot you are going to play. This becomes much easier to do if your head is still and your eyes are level.
The ball is already moving, if your head is moving side to side at the same time it takes the brain valuable extra time to predict line and length: Time that can make the difference between sound defence and nicking off first ball.
So it makes perfect sense for coaches to tell you to keep your head still and simply be relaxed and balanced at the crease.
The advantages of trigger movements
To a 10 year old learning to play, keeping still is good advice. It is a fundamental basic of batting that can be confused easily with the complications of triggers.
But there are obvious benefits to a player with the basics down already: Time, rhythm and balance
Time. All well executed trigger movement is able to buy you time. You are already halfway to playing a shot before the ball is out of the hand.
Rhythm. If you move a little at the right moment your big movement shot becomes easier, almost like you have played a tiny practice shot first to get into the swing of things. Like a metronome ticking back and forth in perfect timing.
Balance. A movement pre-delivery can get you onto the balls of your feet with your head over your toes. You are both ready to move but also stable and balanced.
We also know from other sports that a trigger movement helps you focus mentally.
All this is possible without a trigger movement, but is a lot more difficult. The trigger gives you momentum into whatever shot you select.
The problem with trigger movements
Like a lot of newer ideas in cricket, the trigger movement is a misunderstood technique. Yes, it has huge advantages when done correctly but when done wrong you are staring down the barrel of failure.
I think what may happen is that players are influenced by what they see on TV, but attempt to recreate the trigger movements of their heroes without access to high level coaching (or any coaching).
Your setup is crucial and adding or changing a trigger movement out of context can lead to:
Loss of rhythm. Moving too early can upset that delicate metronome of rhythm that all good batsmen need.
Less time. If you move too late and your head is not still when the ball is delivered it will feel as if the ball is on you much more quickly.
Unbalanced. Getting caught off balance when the ball is bowled because you have moved incorrectly will limit your range of shots and timing drastically.
In short, getting a trigger movement right is hard work. When Rob Key adopted one in 2003 he said:
"To get it I had to hit hundreds of balls on freezing mornings at Canterbury three or four times a week on a pretty dodgy surface in an indoor net. I'm a work in progress really, but you have to work hard at something like that because it's not something you can think about when you're batting. It's got to be natural."
Still or moving?
Where does all this leave us?
I think it makes trigger movements a highly personal thing, and not something to be entered into lightly.
First, the basics. No matter what your personal style, to succeed you must have:
Head still at the point of delivery
Eyes level in your stance and at the point of delivery
If you have not achieved much success with the bat yet my advice is simple: Focus on keeping still for now. It's doubtful the bowling will be of a speed a trigger become more important anyway.
You may have a natural trigger movement. As long as it is not away from the stumps and it gives you confidence then stick with it. If not, focus on keeping still again. Go back to basics.
Most people don't have one naturally and make a conscious decision at some point to adopt one. If you want to do this, remember Rob Key and how much work it took him, a very fine batsman. As long as you are prepared to put in as much work as Rob to do it there are a number of options. Try them out and find a comfortable one, then get to work:
Back foot back and across towards off stump, transferring weight back onto the front foot as the ball is bowled.
Front foot forward (not across).
Widening your stance, back foot back, front foot forward.
Taking a pace down the wicket
Generally the back first movements are better for pace and the forward first movements are better for spin. Moving down the wicket is a good strategy to get your feet going but is best avoided every ball, especially when the keeper is standing up.
Bob Woolmer rightly points out the longer you bat in an innings the less you find you need a trigger at all. He also advises that it's impossible to coach as everyone will have something different they find comfortable.
I admit to being sceptical about the need for a trigger at club level at all. Bowlers are not the same standard and the whole thing is prone to going horribly wrong if not taken in context correctly. If you must have one, stick to the basics of being still at the point of delivery. If you are struggling for form look elsewhere to turn it around, a trigger is not the answer.
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Actually there is one mistake in this article where it was the trigger is a new thing - the trigger movement has been around for many years - Jack Hobbs had one for instance... (yes I have done my homework in this area!!)
oh and because I can't let it go... (sorry the links wont work, but the article line is http://theoldbatsman.blogspot.com/2008/12/triggers-with-attitude.html )
Triggers With Attitude
With South Africa about to play in Perth, older heads might recall 1970, when Barry Richards flayed Australia in the only four Tests he played.
Even the Batsman was too young to see it, but Richards became my first hero (here), and today, in need of a nostalgia fix, I found this on youtube. It's bad Baz making his third hundred in a week; 129 for Hants against Lancashire in a Gillette Cup match in '72. The voices of Laker and Benaud tumble down the years as he does it, too.
His shotmaking is exactly as I remember it - especially the first six he hits - but his stance, with his back hunched and his feet almost together, and his grip, the back of his top hand facing the bowler, are not.
What's more shocking though, is how still he stands. Richards and his fellows had never heard of trigger movements. They were as alien a concept as helmets (Bas doesn't even bother taking his sleeveless sweater off...).
The maxim of the old days was 'see it early, play it late', and that extended to how you moved. On the first day of last season, I was in the Nursery at Lord's watching Clive Radley working with his groundstaff boys. Without exception, the batters had big trigger movements. It seemed to be part of their mental armour. One kid was essentially jumping at the ball with both feet. He moved more before it was bowled than he did afterwards.
Barry once made fifty using just the leading edge of his bat in a club match. Check out his bat in the clip. It's so thin it's almost translucent. He is a god from a different time. And he once got 300 in a day in Perth - against Dennis Lillee.
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Buzz a new chapter for your batting bible maybe?
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Nice work Coach. I think everyone should realize and appreciate the amount of time, thought and effort that you keep putting into all these. Kudos!!
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so Adam, if you read this, if you want to copy a south African batsman, make it Barry Richards, because as special as KP is, Barry was the man.
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I've just come across this topic and thought I'd add my 2p worth.
[Background info: i'm a recreational cricketer, opening batsman. after 3 years of leading the batting stats for my club's 3rd team, i played the whole of last season in the 2nds. i top scored for the season and got my maiden 2nd XI ton in the last game of the season]
I was in winter nets last weekend facing our first team bowling attack. One of our openers is arguably the quickest in the league, with a nasty bouncer and a handful of variations. The other is Adam Harrison, formerly of Glamorgan.
I found I was playing okay against them but survival was more the order of the day than the careful accumulation that is more my nature. Our first team captain came down to me and made a slight change to my stance, as well as telling me to keep still. The difference was extraordinary.
Keeping still in my crease, bat raised and ready, gave me the extra time I needed to really see the ball and play the right shot. I was hitting drives for fun off good bowling! It's important to get your timing right, because standing still for too long actually seems to have an adverse effect, but I fully advocate being as still as possible at the moment the bowler is about to bowl.
Of course, when our quick has that look in his eye and the extra explosiveness in his action, I'm already ducking under the inevitable bouncer ;)
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Triggers suck - the best way to bat is to make sure as far as possible that your eyes are STILL and LEVEL at the point of delivery and again at the point of impact - the best way to think of this is to imaging trying to take a really good clear photograph with a moving camera...
...so for a trigger to work, you need to have completed it and reset by the time the bowler releases the ball. The only person I've seen do this successfully has been Simon Katich, and even then I'm not quite sure why he didn't just start off in front of middle and off to save the effort.
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Chanderpaul has made his effective also but i agree most of the time it just over complicates things, keep it simple!!!!!
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Or try not to have a trigger at all - like Morgan! ;)
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i tried a trigger yesterday in the nets work well for slogging lol
back and across then moo to cow lol hit some right beautys
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watch AB de Villiars ton from the weekend.
that was a masterclass in batting technique.
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watch AB de Villiars ton from the weekend.
that was a masterclass in batting technique.
AB is in such good form its unreal. Keeping him quiet will be Englands main challenge this summer. His Hockey and Golf background help his technique alot, a scratch golfer and could've easily made it professionally as a Hockey player by all accounts. Gonna be an interesting contest :(
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AB is in such good form its unreal. Keeping him quiet will be Englands main challenge this summer. His Hockey and Golf background help his technique alot, a scratch golfer and could've easily made it professionally as a Hockey player by all accounts. Gonna be an interesting contest :(
And a SA U-19 rugby player, and runs the 100m in close to 10s by all accounts. the bloke is a serious athlete!
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He's one of these really annoying people who's excellent at everything!!!
Rumour has it he walks on water too........but he's that good that it wouldn't surprise me!!
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I also heard (although I can't verify it) that he can fly as well.