Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: JamesC on March 02, 2012, 01:28:58 PM
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http://richarddawsonphotography.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/woodstock-cricket/#wpcom-carousel-803
Just some pics.
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Cracking set of photos!
It's weird seeing it in photos after being there! haha
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This photo shows just how little batmaking actually goes into some of these Woodstocks from John:
(http://richarddawsonphotography.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/webdsc_97351.jpg?w=1200&h=)
No doubt they're decent bats, but don't go expecting a totally handmade bat in Shropshire.
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Does anyone know where they are made to this stage?
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Does anyone know where they are made to this stage?
Judging by the CNC backs, animal glued handles and grip holding the willow to the handle. I'd guess like the majority of the batmakers he buys from TK.
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Judging by the CNC backs, animal glued handles and grip holding the willow to the handle. I'd guess like the majority of the batmakers he buys from TK.
Surely not... I'm sure they are entirely made, pressed, cut and spliced in Shropshire.... ;)
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I think your wrong mate. I spoke to John yesterday and he makes every bat himself and chooses every cleft as well. He has made bats Flintoff and other legends and he is currently making for Matt Prior and 2 other England players. He has offered to fully make me 3 bats for a great price and I think ill probably take the offer.
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I think your wrong mate. I spoke to John yesterday and he makes every bat himself and chooses every cleft as well. He has made bats Flintoff and other legends and he is currently making for Matt Prior and 2 other England players. He has offered to fully make me 3 bats for a great price and I think ill probably take the offer.
Hmmm. Tom probably has the best view of anyone on this forum as to what bats, prior to being made into playable instruments, look like fresh from pressing and "pre-prep"....
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I think your wrong mate. I spoke to John yesterday and he makes every bat himself and chooses every cleft as well. He has made bats Flintoff and other legends and he is currently making for Matt Prior and 2 other England players. He has offered to fully make me 3 bats for a great price and I think ill probably take the offer.
I think you can see from the pictures that he has part mades there mate. Bit naive to think that he makes every single bat from a full cleft! There are many bat makers (from what I've heard) that have CNC shaped bats from TK, and theres no shame in that.
Having been to collect my bat from John at the workshop, I have seen the part made clefts dotted around. There's nothing taken away from what he does, he produces very good bats, and very good kit.
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Let's just say the photography set shows lots of arty shots of the tools, but very little of the actual batmaking.
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Is there anyone from Woodstock registered on the Forum who could shed some light on this?
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Judging by the CNC backs, animal glued handles and grip holding the willow to the handle. I'd guess like the majority of the batmakers he buys from TK.
I thought that was common knowledge. Mind you, I reckon I could get a piece of willow to that stage. I would imagine the real skill is in the shaving and shaping of it into something that is truely a work of art like the woodstocks quite clearly are. Surely it takes maybe half an hour to get to that stage (when competent) and 2-2.5 to get it to a bat shape.
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I thought that was common knowledge. Mind you, I reckon I could get a piece of willow to that stage. I would imagine the real skill is in the shaving and shaping of it into something that is truely a work of art like the woodstocks quite clearly are. Surely it takes maybe half an hour to get to that stage (when competent) and 2-2.5 to get it to a bat shape.
Exactly.
If I was in the business I'd outsource the donkey work of handling and shaping as much as possible.
I always feel a bit sour at these types of conversations as sooner or later the cynicism of the UK small shavers using TK clefts will damage the industry in the long run.
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sure there are loads of companies who get willow or part made/pressed bat from Newbery
John worked for Newbery for years good luck to the bloke he's great to deal with
going to see him soon to copy the bat i have now which i think is a tk bat
his bats are a lot more 'organic' that forum favourites like black cat
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Exactly.
If I was in the business I'd outsource the donkey work of handling and shaping as much as possible.
I always feel a bit sour at these types of conversations as sooner or later the cynicism of the UK small shavers using TK clefts will damage the industry in the long run.
Look at the bats to the left and right (ignoring the middle bat) - they've been CNC'd completely. Just need the handle shaping and sanding.
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well said dan spot on
we should be proud and encourage UK batmakers. anyone who starts out on their own has my admiration for sure
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Agree to a certain degree, I'll support the batmakers who I believe are in it for the love of the game and batmaking as an art. Not purely for the marketing aspect (this is a general post, not a Woodstock related one).
It's easy to get a CNC'd cleft, spend 30 mins sanding and twining it and call yourself a batmaker. I know, I've tried it. Taking your time to understand what makes a bat perform, where a middle should be positioned and how to best use a piece of willow is what the real art is, that is something that deserves the respect and admiration.
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Agree to a certain degree, I'll support the batmakers who I believe are in it for the love of the game and batmaking as an art. Not purely for the marketing aspect.
It's easy to get a CNC'd cleft, spend 30 mins sanding and twining it and call yourself a batmaker. I know, I've tried it. Taking your time to understand what makes a bat perform, where a middle should be positioned and how to best use a piece of willow is what the real art is, that is something that deserves the respect and admiration.
Define 'purely for marketing'? Is it an ego thing to want to be (called a) 'podshaver'? It's not like it's a shortcut to riches.
Granted there are types like Norbs that go all Heston about batmaking, and deem a new level of kudos, but I think it's a touch mean to dig someone out if they don't disclose fully the history of their production line, and to pass off their experience so casually.
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IMO claiming to be a batmaker is a brand reputation thing. It improves the customers feeling of personalisation and quality control.
I do have time for those batmakers who do outsource - to keep up with demand.
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Sure...I suppose I'd personally let it go on the basis that a) A good bat is a good bat, b) the outsourced part is in (very) good hands and c) to cut the guy some slack.
At the end of the day if we knew the mechanics of most things we purchase we'd probably feel as a consumer we are getting a rough deal. Al lot of business (including mine, an Insurance company) start by having an outsourced section, with the understanding that when a business grows, the function comes in house.
I suppose the alternative "Hi, I'm Johnny NewBatmaker, I don't actually press or handle the clefts, though as I'm new to the game its unrealistic to expect that, what I do have is a decent enough knowledge of what makes a bat work" though it's not a catchy enough slogan.
Not to mention that can of worm that would open up if we 'outed' all the other batmakers that have an identical process.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with outsourcing, however those who finish bats that are completed to the level in the photo are not receiving a raw piece of willow and determining where in that cleft the middle might best be and therefore how it might need to be shaped and pressed. They've passed that job onto someone else.
Instead they are finishing something that someone has already made that decision on. They still need to balance what they have though, a little, and finalise and thread the handle.
How handmade are they really... Well that's a different question! Is it wrong, no. Does anyone really care? Not outside of a forum like this.
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For me i think it depends on the claims of the Brand/Batmaker. If they are stating they do everything from scratch and they are using part mades then thats wrong. if they sit on the fence by not really saying either way then to the average joe nobody will know anything different. We are all aware alot of 'batmakers/brands' use a certain individual for there bats. aslong as the claims of the batmaker dont say we make everything from scratch then its ok
Ill be honest in saying that my bats are made from part made clefts. these are done with as little as possible done to them as i want the experience of learning about the clefts. I would love to be able to control the whole process but its not feesable for me atm. something to work on though.
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When did he make for flintoff then?
I thought he handled sales at Newbury and I thought flintoff retired before Woodstock came out?
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When did he make for flintoff then?
I thought he handled sales at Newbury and I thought flintoff retired before Woodstock came out?
Like...
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There are other members on here that have seen him make them from a cleft and his whole club uses them as they are so good. He said a lot of people rubbish brands as they are jealous and have not even used Woodstock
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There are other members on here that have seen him make them from a cleft and his whole club uses them as they are so good. He said a lot of people rubbish brands as they are jealous and have not even used Woodstock
I don't think your doing anyone any favours by continuing to post things like that. We don't doubt the fact he can make a bat from a full cleft, well I don't. The pictures are the evidence that there are part mades, and some bats that just need finishing off. Everyone can see that in the pictures that are up on that link.
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There are other members on here that have seen him make them from a cleft and his whole club uses them as they are so good. He said a lot of people rubbish brands as they are jealous and have not even used Woodstock
Who are those members?
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There are other members on here that have seen him make them from a cleft and his whole club uses them as they are so good. He said a lot of people rubbish brands as they are jealous and have not even used Woodstock
And to be fair, a fair number of us have used Woodstock bats and found them to be very good. How good?
Well if you look at this chart, you'll see that in the unscientific and very subjective experiment we did, the Woodstock came top.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/Batoff2Refac.png)
What you'll also see though is that when taken against a bunch of other bats, actually although extremely good, it wasn't the best we'd used. So, yes they are good bats, and three people at least rated them highly, however there is no jealousy or disrepute involved. Simply that they aren't the best thing we'd ever used!
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr293/tim2000s/Batoff1Refac.png)
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Riggers, you were spoilt for choice with brands the other day, but now you seem to be a one brand man?!
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I visited Woodstock and had two one for me one for friend and are very well finished but not the best I've used but on par with other grade 1 bats
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its a fact that standard profiles would be cnc'd, why wouldnt they be? it take all the donkey work out of the standard stuff and increases sales/ volume.
some will be made from scratch but i would imagine that these will be custom bats or sponsor bats etc as they take more time and effort to make.
why would a bat maker spend say 4 hours on a grade 3 bat when he can just sand, bind and grip? makes sense to save the time and effort for the top of the range bats which cost twice as much.
just my 2 pence worth...
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Gotta say I agree with Fletch. The guys just trying to make a buck isn't he?
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yeah fair play to him! i know id do the same.
Its what all the big boys do so i dont see the problem.
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yeah fair play to him! i know id do the same.
Its what all the big boys do so i dont see the problem.
So why should a punter buy a Woodstock over a bat from the big boys?
Would you rather go to a batmaker who treats his top grade bats the same as a lower grade? Over a batmaker who pays less attention to his lower?
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So why should a punter buy a Woodstock over a bat from the big boys?
Would you rather go to a batmaker who treats his top grade bats the same as a lower grade? Over a batmaker who pays less attention to his lower?
I'd rather go to a custom bat maker where I can get my own bat however I like it at no extra premium, significantly lower than the 'big boys'
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Why are you so animated about this? He's just a guy in a shed. Let him be!
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Why are you so animated about this? He's just a guy in a shed. Let him be!
toms not having a go at woodstock he is just speaking about the set up in general
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I'm attempting to get some debate going about the cricket bat industry, on a cricket bat forum. Forums are usually where debate happens, right?
It makes no difference to me as to how John makes his bats. But I am interested to find out more about the industry.
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Ok, I'm baiting you a little maybe and I apologise for that. I guess you just need to ask the guy yourself what his methods are if you're curious. I contacted him about work experience last year and he was very helpful to me apart from moving away from Sussex a week after I asked him! He does say on his website that he blends traditional and modern techniques to I guess he's not trying to hoodwink anyone.