Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: thedon on September 09, 2012, 07:22:02 AM
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I've had this problem of planting my front foot just before the ball is bowled. Anything full and straight gets me out as I am fining myself playing all around the ball. Tried opening up my stance and standing outside leg stump,but this has compromised my driving, and I still find myself planting. Any tips on how I can stop this? Cheers
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Try doing the old " back foot back and across"
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That's what I used to do when I was younger, now I do a little back and across and I'm sorted :)
Still don't move my front foot enough but ah well :)
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please will someone explain to me how moving back and across will help someone who plants their front foot?
thanks
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I believe it helps create a solid platform To move forward, or backward, and transfer weight into the stroke as opposed to planting the front foot and trying to play around it.
It also helps to open the hips and play straighter
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I believe it helps create a solid platform To move forward, or backward, and transfer weight into the stroke as opposed to planting the front foot and trying to play around it.
It also helps to open the hips and play straighter
interesting thoughts.
for me to play straight you need your hips and shoulders parallel and not open to play a side on straight shot.
As a result a back and across movement if done wrong opens the player up and makes most shots much harder to execute.
if you are planting your front foot it typically means you are leading with your foot into your shots not your eyes, shoulders then foot.
more later.
what do others think?
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Interesting little topic... I have the exact same issue, land my front foot in all my shots, it's okay if pitched back because you can spring off your front but anything full and straight can be dangerous.
My coach worked on a drill to get me moving back and accross which still hasn't paid off but might.
Stand about 8 yards away from a partner in a net or hard surface
Stand in your batting stance (side on) without holding a bat
Get your partner to send a throw down at a short length but wide of your off stump (ideally a bowl you would square cut)
You in your stance move back and across and catch the ball with 2 hands.
Repeat for a while
It's a good exercise but hasn't paid off yet, maybe I haven't done it enough only twice.
Buzz: please share your thoughts here mate, as I am another player who plants his front foot too early.... Any advice correcting this is appreciated.
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I reckon its just a matter of training yourself.
There is no instant fix cos its not a technical problem, the problem is a cognition you have developed.
I would persist with open stance....... Bring the front foot to a good position as the bowler reaches his stride, use that movement to counter your planting. It'll be some work!
Good luck!
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interesting thoughts.
for me to play straight you need your hips and shoulders parallel and not open to play a side on straight shot.
As a result a back and across movement if done wrong opens the player up and makes most shots much harder to execute.
if you are planting your front foot it typically means you are leading with your foot into your shots not your eyes, shoulders then foot.
more later.
what do others think?
Play straighter defensively I should have said.. Which also helps when playing outswing. Just my opinion of course
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Ok. Here goes, firstly my thoughts typically seem opposite to what others have said. That doesn't make them wrong, you must choose what works for you. If what I say doesn't work, don't do it!
My thoughts are..
Throughout the history of the game most (not all) of the greatest batsman have been side on to face the bowler, especially their hips and shoulders, if not always their feet. As a result, unless there is a very good reason not to be side on, this is what I would encourage.
As is well known I also advocate standing still, rather than a pre-delivery movement, on the basis that with the standard most people play it is unnecessary to over complicate your batting.
If your are having trouble planting your front foot, this is usually something to do with either moving your foot to the line of the ball before your head or the batsman premeditating the shot.
So what to change?
Get three tennis balls and place them in an arch around your off stump, on 12, 1 and 2 o'clock for a right hander. Then with your top hand lean towards the first ball, head first the shoulder then foot then bat. Repeat for the second ball and the third. And go again. After a while progress to throwing the ball up and hitting it on the second bounce, once your have is sorted it is about repetition.
Remember you are using your top hand only as you are not going for power, but position. Make sure your back foot stays still and your hips are pointing to where your are looking to hit the ball.
You can shadow bat to practice this.
I have done this exercise with almost everyone I have coached...
Good luck.
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Buzz, I couldn't agree more. No triggers, just stand still and relaxed and watch the ball. Once you've processed the line and length, then move head in line lead with shoulder and play...your feet move last and you play the ball under your eyes. I know that lots of people like triggers and moving back and across but I solved my front foot planting by working on getting my head in line and leading with my shoulder.
Pete
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Thank you all for your comments, they are whole heartedly appreciated.
A while back i did try the old back and across movement, but I found I was thinking more about this, rather than watching and concentrating on the ball out of the bowlers hand and keeping a clear mind.
With regards to buzzs' advice, I shall be doing the drills religiously. Just one more thing, does it matter where my head is positioned in my stance? I've read ideally it should be be in line with my front foot. Is that correct?
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I think maybe just waiting that little bit longer to judge the line and length will help. I have this problem at times in nets when facing a "quick bowler" 65mph+ with my standards. It is also a reason what short balls seem to come at me quicker, as I'm chasing the ball rather than letting it come to me. Perhaps just go to the nets with the aim of moving your feet that little bit later, trying to get into the line. If you miss the ball, that's fine, as it does take time to 'fix'. I scored 8 runs yesterday, and the moment I got a short and wide one, I slashed at it without my feet in position and got caught. This is most likely because I still have that same flaw ingrained in my batting technique, and also for not heeding Buzz's advice of playing it later on in my innings! Mind you, I came in on like the 38th over and got out on the 41st of a 45 over match (Or something like that), so couldn't have really done much in terms of setting myself up for a 50. :P
Oh, another thing, when you plant your front foot, make sure you land with your heel first, as this will give you balance. You may actually find that you can get your foot to a different angle much easier doing this as you won't collapse, and also it helps lower the risk of you getting out LBW as you are balanced, so you can see what the ball is doing easier! You may already do this, so ignore it if you do!
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Buzz is 90 percent right. The eyes need to be still at the point of release from the bowler, otherwise you do not get the best picture of what is coming down at you, so you need to have a solid base and set up at the point of release - now, that does not preclude a trigger because a good trigger movement should be completed before the ball is released anyway (look at Simon Katich for the best example of this, though Duncan Fletchers forward press is another good way of looking at this).
You don't have to be dead square -in actual fact the majority of great players stand slightly open so as to allow the head to be parallel at release - but you do need to be still.
So, from there what??
Well, if you play at a moderate standard where there are few quickies, its easy to get into the habit of what I call prop-and-cop, that is to say you lunge at the ball because you can account for many variables by doing so. When form slips you have an issue. Ways around it- well, you need first to make sure that the bat is coming through straight, hitting balls rolled at you along the deck if needs be. Thereafter, its more a case of working on the timing of any moves you make.
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sorry, I dont agree, interestingly, nor does Gary Palmer, who is a bit more experienced a coach than me...
this video is 6mins long, it is worth watching...
m.youtube.com/watch?v=gVQFT3-YlXM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DgVQFT3-YlXM&gl=GB
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he doese soem good videos him, there is a someone on here going for net with him. Maybe we can ask him for some tips.
His new method is talking about turning in the book foot and leading with the shoulder being more important than the head.
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another good article ...gary palmer involved again
http://www.pitchvision.com/9-traits-of-world-class-batsmen-that-anyone-can-copy
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In the modern game, it is necessary to move back and across. One can move slightly back and across before placing more weight on the back foot while ensuring that the head is kept forwards.This gives several advantages. First, it gives the batter a good indication of the position of the off-stump. With the modern emphasis of bowling in a channel on and just outside off-stump, a batter must have some means of knowing when to let the ball pass to the wicket keeper. Second, the batter is already in a partial back foot position. Short-pitched fast bowling is the norm today. Therefore, it pays to be biased towards the back foot position before the ball is delivered. From this position, the batter can move further back if the ball is short without compromising the ability to move forward if the ball is pitched up, because there is extra weight placed on the back foot. Third, for most deliveries that are played on the front foot, the front leg has to travel slightly to the left of the line of the ball. By moving back and across, the front foot is inside the line of the back foot. This tends to minimise the effect of the front foot moving too early, which usually results in the front foot moving outside the line of the back foot, and unless the ball is pitched on off-stump or wider, causes the batter to play across the front pad. This increases the likelihood of an lbw dismissal. Fourth, the batter is in a more balanced position because the area of base support is increased. Fifth, leg-side play is enhanced because the front foot is on the left side of the back foot, providing the ideal position from which to play balls on or around leg stump. And, finally, the elevated hip line (right lateral pelvic rotation) is a source of stored energy, which can be released during the downswing to generate bat speed.
Not my words by the way.... Past Sri Lankan Batting coach
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Sure I get that, but you are comparing international batsman with international bowlers and professional practice sessions to club batsmen and club bowlers who hardly practice.
A good trigger take 1000's of balls to get right. Get it wrong and you look like Ravi Bopara.
For a club player against club bowling standing still will improve 99% of batsmen
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Ravi who? Haha ;)
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does anyone have a you tube video of someone coaching this back and across movement?
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does anyone have a you tube video of someone coaching this back and across movement?
Here is one quick one
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVw41iYAmZA
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Another with common errors.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RVw41iYAmZA
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For a club player against club bowling standing still will improve 99% of batsmen
And it certainly won't make any of them an appreciably worse player!
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How did you get on with this?
Did you change anything? Have you improved?
I'm having problems with this at the moment, plant the front foot, then when the ball is on leg stump I am falling towards off when trying to hit it.
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I have adjusted my stance. i stand more upright now. i feel it has helped.
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try to hold your front leg back as long as possible and take a smaller stride.
try on driving it or practicing the on drive, it will help your leg side shots
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In the modern game, it is necessary to move back and across. One can move slightly back and across before placing more weight on the back foot while ensuring that the head is kept forwards.This gives several advantages. First, it gives the batter a good indication of the position of the off-stump. With the modern emphasis of bowling in a channel on and just outside off-stump, a batter must have some means of knowing when to let the ball pass to the wicket keeper. Second, the batter is already in a partial back foot position. Short-pitched fast bowling is the norm today. Therefore, it pays to be biased towards the back foot position before the ball is delivered. From this position, the batter can move further back if the ball is short without compromising the ability to move forward if the ball is pitched up, because there is extra weight placed on the back foot. Third, for most deliveries that are played on the front foot, the front leg has to travel slightly to the left of the line of the ball. By moving back and across, the front foot is inside the line of the back foot. This tends to minimise the effect of the front foot moving too early, which usually results in the front foot moving outside the line of the back foot, and unless the ball is pitched on off-stump or wider, causes the batter to play across the front pad. This increases the likelihood of an lbw dismissal. Fourth, the batter is in a more balanced position because the area of base support is increased. Fifth, leg-side play is enhanced because the front foot is on the left side of the back foot, providing the ideal position from which to play balls on or around leg stump. And, finally, the elevated hip line (right lateral pelvic rotation) is a source of stored energy, which can be released during the downswing to generate bat speed.
Not my words by the way.... Past Sri Lankan Batting coach
i have been preaching this for months, i was taught it by two prominent former west indian batsmen from the 80's but it seems that cricket is stuck in its ways a bit like the high jump before the fosbury flop ....
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please will someone explain to me how moving back and across will help someone who plants their front foot?
thanks
I must admit Buzz, I have now taken the back and across out of my stance, and stay still until the ball is bowled, feeling a lot better this season than last for it as well!
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to answer the question above.
you are back and across and your weight is mostly on your back foot with the tip of the front foot touching. it allows you to hold your front leg in longer and keeps your head from tipping over
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to answer the question above.
you are back and across and your weight is mostly on your back foot with the tip of the front foot touching. it allows you to hold your front leg in longer and keeps your head from tipping over
which then conversely makes it harder to play off the back foot as your weight isn't evenly balanced.
I don't see how it stops your head from.tipping over when it should be you head leading the feet movement.
the reality it that the only good the back and across movement does is to help people who back away to the leg side and who really have trouble getting in line.
the whole pointing your front foot like Ali cook really, for me overcomplicates life.
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which then conversely makes it harder to play off the back foot as your weight isn't evenly balanced.
But you are already setting yourself up to cut by going and back and across. There's no need to move back further as long as your trigger is not abysmally short. It is also very easy to play a backfoot drive or a defence as all that needs to happen is your front foot comes back. The one shot that is a little hard is a conventional pull. I usually take a tiny step forward with my front foot when I pull as that allows the heel of my backfoot to turn.
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We've been through this back and across stuff a few times, it seems people either love it or hate it, always stirs up a nice healthy debate.
Its stops tipping over as your head is not outside the line of your feet, which causes tipping over (i have a michael bevan video where he says this exact thing) as your head is a very very heavy part of your body. When your head is positioned in between the back and front foot it is in the centre of your body so you are more likely to tip it forward than sideways.
To go back you just dip your front shoulder/head into line with the ball and it transfers the weight to your front foot and lifts your back leg exactly how you would if you were evenly balanced. Going forward you dont have to transfer any weight so can hold your front leg in longer to stop planting
Most club cricketers hate the back and across movement but most top internationals do it, so in my eyes it must be the optimum way of batting.
I will be posting up blog posts about this subject with some screenshots of Mr Lara, Mr Sobers and Mr Tendulkar in the back and cross position at point of release .....
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Well, I suppose we'll keep coming back to stick to what works for you as well. So, I'm simply going to talk about what works for me. Personally the trigger took me about ten seconds to get used to. I didn't have to practice for thousands of balls. The very first time I tried it in a nets I murdered anything outside my off stump. It just worked! A weak shot, the cut, became my dominant scoring shot and I graduated to opener from a lower middle order bat. I also find it reasonably easy to switch the trigger off when the need arises - usually a new ball bowler that is consistently bowling full and swinging it in. I also stop triggering once the ball is old or the bowlers have become slower. I don't have a problem tipping over or planting my front foot but the back and across made me a significantly stronger player of short pitched bowling. Previously, I would have let many balls go, waiting for the full ball and now I can carve these in the point region.
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Its stops tipping over as your head is not outside the line of your feet, which causes tipping over (i have a michael bevan video where he says this exact thing) as your head is a very very heavy part of your body. When your head is positioned in between the back and front foot it is in the centre of your body so you are more likely to tip it forward than sideways.
To go back you just dip your front shoulder/head into line with the ball and it transfers the weight to your front foot and lifts your back leg exactly how you would if you were evenly balanced. Going forward you dont have to transfer any weight so can hold your front leg in longer to stop planting
this isn't right - when you trigger it should be your feet moving only, not your head or shoulder.
I am sorry but you are making this (and batting) way too complicated.
If you have a pre release movement - it is vital that your head doens't move otherwise you lose some perspective. If your centre of gravity moves it will be really difficult to regain balance before the ball is bowled, which is why club cricketers are 99 times out of 100 better off without a pre-release movement and standing still because they don't get to practice their trigger enough.
please think carefully through your blog before posting it with the above in mind otherwise you could confuse a your readers.
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Against anyone of any decent pace 75+ imho it's important to think back foot first. It gives more time to play the ball and it helps to stop planting the front foot.
Against slower bowlers I think what tends to happen is batters think they have to get forward. Their head starts more towards the front foot when waiting for the ball to be delivered. In an effort to get to the ball the batter moves automatically forward without necessarily giving himself enough time to judge the line and length properly. On occasion when not judged correctly the head moves to the off side and the front foot plants to stop the batter from falling over. The biggest fault I see week in and week out it batters falling over and I think it's because of the 'get forward as often as you can' thinking.
As someone who has struggled with planting and getting out LBW are great deal I now find that if I think primarily 'back and across' I'm far less vulnerable early in my innings. Even against spinners I now go back as it gives more time to pick up the line and flight of the ball.
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vital? really?
if it works for you great, but it absolutely isn't vital.
Frequently Goochie coaches players to start deep in their crease and move forward as a trigger.
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Cricket's a lot like golf - there's more than one way to play well.....
It's not vital. It's an option for people and if it works for them then great. If not they can always revert back to the stand still and wait.... for my money it's worth a try if you're struggling.
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this isn't right - when you trigger it should be your feet moving only, not your head or shoulder.
I am sorry but you are making this (and batting) way too complicated.
If you have a pre release movement - it is vital that your head doens't move otherwise you lose some perspective. If your centre of gravity moves it will be really difficult to regain balance before the ball is bowled, which is why club cricketers are 99 times out of 100 better off without a pre-release movement and standing still because they don't get to practice their trigger enough.
please think carefully through your blog before posting it with the above in mind otherwise you could confuse a your readers.
of course it is right.
You stand in the normal side on position your head is over the end of your toes.... with a big potential to tip over.
You then move your back foot back and across without moving your head like you say. As a result your head is not over your toes but in between your bfopot foot and back foot .... so you would have to have a serious physical disability in your neck or head to tip your head over from here
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of course it is right.
You stand in the normal side on position your head is over the end of your toes.... with a big potential to tip over.
You then move your back foot back and across without moving your head like you say. As a result your head is not over your toes but in between your bfopot foot and back foot .... so you would have to have a serious physical disability in your neck or head to tip your head over from here
Mate, I like what you're trying to achieve, but think about it before writing it up here. Your posts are hugely confusing and often worryingly wrong! You make everything far more complicated that it needs to be! And also, if one person takes the time to post something to help some-one out, don't contradict it, especially when its some-one who is clearly qualified!
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Mate, I like what you're trying to achieve, but think about it before writing it up here. Your posts are hugely confusing and often worryingly wrong! You make everything far more complicated that it needs to be! And also, if one person takes the time to post something to help some-one out, don't contradict it, especially when its some-one who is clearly qualified!
Couldn't disagree more. Most of what GarrettJ posts on here makes absolute sense. I think what should be borne in mind that there is no absolutes, there is more than one way of scoring runs and that what works for one person may not work for another. Don't give someone a hard time when he's trying to help - judging by what he writes, he's played at a decent standard and his knowledge is going to be useful.
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You stand in the normal side on position your head is over the end of your toes.... with a big potential to tip over.
You then move your back foot back and across without moving your head like you say. As a result your head is not over your toes but in between your bfopot foot and back foot .... so you would have to have a serious physical disability in your neck or head to tip your head over from here
So here is the issue - your head controls where your feet go, not the other way around as you play the shot, whether that is a front or back foot shot.
I think you are talking about players who fall over through the shot because they have got their head outside the line of the ball. This is a common fallibility, however, in my view it is exacerbated by a poorly executed trigger movement and the ensuing loss of balance, as I referred to above.
If you move your head in line with the ball, then forward or back, your feet should naturally move into the right position. Douglas Jardine describes this as "the topple" but that is a little old school, perhaps for some.
I stand by what I say - if you keep it simple there is far less that can go wrong.
If, for example, you are planting your front foot it is because you are not moving your head/eyes in line with the ball and then towards it, with your feet "falling" into place - what you are doing is moving your foot first into an incorrect position.
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Exactly. The simpler you make batting, the better you will be. I bet if you analysed your own technique you would find that you 'just bat'
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I used to use the back foot and across, and watching my videos back I was unbalanced and not transferring weight properly into the ball, as I was hovering on the back foot to much. After showing the videos to a guy on here, I eradicated the back foot and across, stay still at the crease, and I feel far better for it. I feel more balanced, and feel that my recent good form is due to the change in stance.
Obviously things are different for everyone. I just think that by staying still at the crease you give yourself the best platform to go from. Therefore agreeing with Buzz, and Nick. Triggers are obviously somewhat of a personal preference and don't work for everyone
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have any of you who are preaching this stand still stuff faced 80mph + bowling on a regular basis??
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have any of you who are preaching this stand still stuff faced 80mph + bowling on a regular basis??
yes.
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but really my point is that 99% of players on this forum don't so benefit from anything other than a simplified technique.
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Works for Nick Compton.
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for anything below 75mph there is no need to do an unweighting of your front foot (better term than trigger) but why not learn the way pros bat?? 90% of top international batsmen do this trigger so i suspect it is the optimum way to bat.
Its a debate that can go on over and over again and there is no right answer
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I agree with you Garret and infact triggers are used just as effectively against spin bowling. Just look at trescothic against spin.
Any player facing 80mph who doesnt move thier feet are going to get pinned on a regular basis.
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I wouldn't say Nick Compton gets 'pinned' regularly?
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I agree with you Garret and infact triggers are used just as effectively against spin bowling. Just look at trescothic against spin.
Any player facing 80mph who doesnt move thier feet are going to get pinned on a regular basis.
No (No Swearing Please), if you face 60 and don't move your feet your gonna get pinned. Moving your feet and a trigger have nothing to do each other IMO
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Damn straight - there are so many different trigger movements that they exist as evidence that there is no one way that is "right" and no one way that is concusively "wrong". Personally, I don't use one, never have - figure I'd like the camera still when I take the key photograph - but I can see why some batsmen - particularly left handers who can use the LBW law to their advantage by getting accross to off stump a la Simon Katich - choose to do so.
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I can see why they're useful when playing real pace, but at the level that 90% of the forum play at, its making the art of batting far too complicated and is a complete waste of practice time when there is always something more useful to work on!
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I really don't understand, can someone tell me how you can react quicker after moving (as we all seem to agree you want to be still when the balls bowled) as opposed to standing still? Surely this movement should have no impact on your reactions?
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This just about sums up my views on trigger movements. If you think it will benefit you then fine, but do it right, and get it right.... and to do this takes far more time than most of us have unless we have access to surplus hours of practice. It is absolutely not an answer to a problem that batsmen have to playing anything under 75mph, and in my view, isn't absolutely necessary to anything over.
The advantages of trigger movements
To a 10 year old learning to play, keeping still is good advice. It is a fundamental basic of batting that can be confused easily with the complications of triggers.
But there are obvious benefits to a player with the basics down already: Time, rhythm and balance
Time. All well executed trigger movement is able to buy you time. You are already halfway to playing a shot before the ball is out of the hand.
Rhythm. If you move a little at the right moment your big movement shot becomes easier, almost like you have played a tiny practice shot first to get into the swing of things. Like a metronome ticking back and forth in perfect timing.
Balance. A movement pre-delivery can get you onto the balls of your feet with your head over your toes. You are both ready to move but also stable and balanced.
We also know from other sports that a trigger movement helps you focus mentally.
All this is possible without a trigger movement, but is a lot more difficult. The trigger gives you momentum into whatever shot you select.
The problem with trigger movements
Like a lot of newer ideas in cricket, the trigger movement is a misunderstood technique. Yes, it has huge advantages when done correctly but when done wrong you are staring down the barrel of failure.
I think what may happen is that players are influenced by what they see on TV, but attempt to recreate the trigger movements of their heroes without access to high level coaching (or any coaching).
Your setup is crucial and adding or changing a trigger movement out of context can lead to:
Loss of rhythm. Moving too early can upset that delicate metronome of rhythm that all good batsmen need.
Less time. If you move too late and your head is not still when the ball is delivered it will feel as if the ball is on you much more quickly.
Unbalanced. Getting caught off balance when the ball is bowled because you have moved incorrectly will limit your range of shots and timing drastically.
Where does all this leave us?
I think it makes trigger movements a highly personal thing, and not something to be entered into lightly.
Still or Moving
First, the basics. No matter what your personal style, to succeed you must have:
Head still at the point of delivery
Eyes level in your stance and at the point of delivery
If you have not achieved much success with the bat yet my advice is simple: Focus on keeping still for now. It's doubtful the bowling will be of a speed a trigger become more important anyway.
Pitchvision.com
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Okay interesting, but could a well prepared stance not do similar i.e. get your head over toes, balls of feet etc?
And at what speed do we think triggers become effective, 75mph+?
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Absolutely mate, that is what I would be suggesting. A trigger is probably useful for anything 80+. However, they're so difficult to coach that it would be next to impossible to coach one from behind a computer screen. Mind you, I wouldn't coach one when stood with the player. Finally, as an aside, if your facing 80+ bowling every week, chances are you're pretty good anyway and are getting all the help you need!
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Ok, let's look at his from a coaching point of view. The main issue was planting the front foot.
This means that he either moved too early or his head was falling over to the offside and hence the foot planted across the stumps. Agreed?
Right, couple of ways to remedy this.
Wait for as long as possible before you move towards the ball. This could cause you to feel a bit late on shots and will take a bit of time to get used to.
Or Stand in the crease in a balanced position with your head forward in the direction of the bowler or umpire instead of leaning over towards the offside.
Or do a trigger movement to get the feet moving. The smaller the movement the less danger of anything going horribly wrong. Start off with your back foot on 2leg and front foot on leg. Your trigger should have you finished with the back foot on middle and front foot on 2leg. You therefore still have an open stance and you are not closing yourself off with the trigger. The movement should be done and finished before the bowler hits his delivery stride.
We can discuss which method is better till we are all blue in the face or accept that different methods work for different players.
The important thing is that the player uses the method that works best for him and that fits in best with his technique.
Coaching should be about providing options for players to improve their game without taking away their natural flair.
If we continue to use outdated dogmatic approaches to coaching we will not see players like Lara, Ponting, Gayle etc.