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General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 04:38:08 PM

Title: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 04:38:08 PM
This, I hope, will eventually become the heading for an extra chapter in my batting book - but I still need to gather my own thoughts and (hopefully) be influenced by people on here first....

In real terms I am trying to ask the person being coached the difficult question: when you are out of form and don't know where the next run is coming from – what do you start from? You can’t rely on the coach when you are in the middle – just look at the recent malaise of English batting, I bet the coaches in the dressing room of Gooch, Flower and Thorpe could do a better job at the moment than Trott, Bell and Patel – but they are all retired!

The second question then becomes: do I know my game well enough to help myself?

To help answer this question we must think what does the expression “I know my game” mean? To me it means how you play with all the flourishes and excess removed – playing a simple defensive shot, or a simple work to leg – no risk just batting in its simplest forms. What do you guys think?

My issue is that when I have been coaching I have found that too many players experiment with their batting but frequently end up in a muddle trying too many different things, mainly because they don't understand the basis that they are starting from or why they are changing something.

This is multiplied when they are out of form – which perversely is the time when most people look to change their technique, making it more complicated, rather than simplifying it.

Some of the best players who really know their game understand about bad form are able to limit themselves and grind out some time at the crease until batting comes a bit more naturally. These as a cricket supporter are a whole load less frustrating to watch then the flamboyant “this is the way I play” kind of batsman, who rely on one shot to get them back in to form – but when it clicks again they are devastating.

So my first challenge is to ask how do you learn what your basic technique is? – Whether you are Shiv Chanderpaul, Mark Waugh or some bloke on the village green.

To help answer this question how about asking yourself:
When you are in the nets, what is your basic grip, stance and back lift?
As you are getting your eye in, what are the first few things you concentrate on getting right?
Then, and only then, can you ask yourself:
What you are trying to work on?
Why do you think you need to work on something?
Are you trying to correct a fault or try something new?
And how will any of the above help me become a better player

My view is that you can only change something when you know what you are starting from. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: tim2000s on November 20, 2012, 04:52:22 PM
I think it's an excellent area to look at. I know that I've generally only scored runs when I have gone out with the intention to defend and leave, and generally, if I get away with that, it builds my confidence up. Then I can start to open up a bit as I've got my eye in and my feet moving. You've seen me batting so you'd get why that would matter...

Just call me Geoffrey.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Canners on November 20, 2012, 04:55:41 PM

top post buzz.

i think understanding your batting has a massive influence on how successfull you are. I think this would explain why batsman peak later than bowlers......
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: mad_abt_cricket on November 20, 2012, 04:57:52 PM
I would think that besides the technical aspects which are mentioned here, mental aspect is equally or sometimes becomes more important. There are players who are mentally tough enough to grind it out under pressure or when not in form.
I admire Steve Waugh for this quality.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 05:02:31 PM
Sir Geoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-DOkEN9BbA&feature=plcp

Tim2000s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UzPa0Vv-_U
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: uknsaunders on November 20, 2012, 05:02:57 PM
I'll throw a spanner in and so the whole concept of "form"  is BS. As adult batsman in club cricket we don't change day to day but other variables do. Our view of "form" is built on coincidence, dodgy pitches, good balls and bad luck. You are the same batsman in-form as out of form. The only thing that's changed is you haven't spent as much middle time. Roll up your sleeves and grind a few overs out or play a dirty innings slogging, either works as long as bat is on ball for a period of time.

What I'm saying is you don't change anything and get on with it. 95% of batsman get themselves out, not the bowler, so don't go looking for excuses.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: trypewriter on November 20, 2012, 05:06:03 PM
My view is that you can only change something when you know what you are starting from.

I used to work in computers and that was always the base level (other than try switching in off and then on again - obviously) Too many people try to change too many things at once, when they should only try to change one at a time to see how it affects things. You have to be methodical. I'd also suggest that in a bad trot, being able to go back to the base level IE knowing what has worked in the past, is far more beneficial than trying something new. That doesn't mean that a small adjustment might not work wonders, but trying it when what you perceive to be your basic method isn't working (which could be just down to getting a run of 'unplayable' deliveries) is not the right time to assess it.
- or am I talking b******s?
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: uknsaunders on November 20, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
I will say technical changes are sometimes required if a batsman has problems with a certain ball or bowler or stepping up a level. However it should have nothing to do with form. If you scored runs before, you'll score them again.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 05:07:00 PM
I'll throw a spanner in and so the whole concept of "form"  is BS. As adult batsman in club cricket we don't change day to day but other variables do. Our view of "form" is built on coincidence, dodgy pitches, good balls and bad luck. You are the same batsman in-form as out of form. The only thing that's changed is you haven't spent as much middle time. Roll up your sleeves and grind a few overs out or play a dirty innings slogging, either works as long as bat is on ball for a period of time.

What I'm saying is you don't change anything and get on with it. 95% of batsman get themselves out, not the bowler, so don't go looking for excuses.
I get your point, but I don't agree, when you are in form and confident batting doesn't feel the same as when you have got three 0's in a row and don't know where the next run is coming from.


I used to work in computers and that was always the base level (other than try switching in off and then on again - obviously) Too many people try to change too many things at once, when they should only try to change one at a time to see how it affects things. You have to be methodical. I'd also suggest that in a bad trot, being able to go back to the base level IE knowing what has worked in the past, is far more beneficial than trying something new. That doesn't mean that a small adjustment might not work wonders, but trying it when what you perceive to be your basic method isn't working (which could be just down to getting a run of 'unplayable' deliveries) is not the right time to assess it.
- or am I talking b******s?
this is what I totally subscribe to!
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: uknsaunders on November 20, 2012, 05:10:37 PM
it's exactly the same. It's like the lottery, what goes before isn't a guide to the future. Play each ball on it's merits, it's a new day. It says more about the individuals state of mind.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: tim2000s on November 20, 2012, 05:11:36 PM
All that says is that "form" is psychological and not physical. The question is how do you reboot your head?
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 05:13:37 PM
The question is how do you reboot your head?
you go to the barn...
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: tim2000s on November 20, 2012, 05:14:36 PM
And get slow yorkers bowled at you....
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Canners on November 20, 2012, 05:16:03 PM
you go to the barn...

where is this so called barn ?
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 05:17:30 PM
And get slow yorkers bowled at you....
pah - that is only to stop any premeditation.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: procricket on November 20, 2012, 05:19:19 PM
To me form is based on ability and knowledge of your ability is key.

If Iam out of form I know what I doing wrong because I know my game my scoring areas and my mindset in doing so.
I know my game inside out through coaching and video analysis of everything I do and I know when my muscle memory is telling me something is wrong ie like when I,am moving too much.

What do I do well because I know my game If it a big thing I get it videoed than analysis then work it out of my game.

Do I go back to basics to archive this kind of I know my backlift and my body movements and I know my strengths ie square of the wicket and the on side so I know if I getting out elsewhere it because of a technical flaw I try to work on.

I net differently to most I try to increase my strengths before I work on weakness because of what uk has iluded too to many batsman just think they are what the are and do not try to improve, other do not know how to.

Me I try to maximise the ability I have and cover up the weaknesses but I do work on them also.

It for me is about knowing your game and trying to get better.

Strength of mind is a whole different thing though
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 05:21:04 PM
arh the Andy Flower way - create "super strengths" and still work on weaknesses...
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Chad on November 20, 2012, 05:22:57 PM
I have only really scored runs (20+) when I am put under the pressure of not scoring runs, but of staying in. There have been situations where I have been in sooner than expected, where I have simply not managed to score at all and been extremely frustrated. This is when I normally get out. I actually think that there has only ever been one innings where I have scored more than 20 without the mindset of staying in.

I think playing within yourself is key. Knowing your role while out in the middle, and sticking to it really does help. Staying in and getting your feet moving does play a crucial role in an innings, but so does sticking to what you know you can do. I know I can't play cut shots well, but I was dismissed early in my last 2 games of the season playing the shot. I feel that the moment I start to play shots I know I am not comfortable with, my batting becomes less fluent, and if I get rewarded for such shots, a little bit of cockiness begins creeps in! I find this is the case even in nets, and it all ends up being a very unrewarding net session. :-[

Really looking forward to this batting book Buzz! If I can't buy myself a run with bats, maybe I can read until I get some. 8)
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: procricket on November 20, 2012, 05:29:00 PM
Wonder what all the bat changing going on this forum does to technique.

That a real intriguing question buzz

Technical questions are easy and anybody can be coached the mental tip is the difference between many of us

If your changing your bat every week or other week my theory is your already thinking too much
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: uknsaunders on November 20, 2012, 05:31:24 PM
All that says is that "form" is psychological and not physical. The question is how do you reboot your head?

Simple, forget about everything apart from playing the next ball. Over thinking creates problems. Your best cricket comes naturally when you are playing with a combination of instinct and concentration. Things like premeditation and self doubt only get you in trouble.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: procricket on November 20, 2012, 05:33:43 PM
I tend to think people bat like there true personality it is a extension of who you are sounds daft but it what I believe.

I tend not to think to much at the crease in games I think in the nets but not in games.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on November 20, 2012, 05:36:36 PM
Practice is key for me. Practice not until you get it right but practice until you can't get it wrong.

I agree with Nick. Don't over complicate things. Work on 1 or 2 things at a time.

Knowing you own game means knowing your strengths and weakness and playing within them.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: The Island Cricketer on November 20, 2012, 05:49:52 PM
A good example of the psychological theme is when I was on the bowling machine facing 68mph I think and I couldn't play barely any because I thought they were fast. I came out and the coach said, if you want, I can put it down to 60, so he did and I went back in more confident and I was playing the balls fine. I was then told by the coach that he didn't turn the speed down at all!  :)
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: mad_abt_cricket on November 20, 2012, 06:04:46 PM
Simple, forget about everything apart from playing the next ball. Over thinking creates problems. Your best cricket comes naturally when you are playing with a combination of instinct and concentration. Things like premeditation and self doubt only get you in trouble.

That's where sledging comes into play.. Opposition makes sure the batsman wont be able to reboot..
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: DrMartinIJones on November 20, 2012, 06:13:32 PM
Part of my work (as a sport psychologist) with athletes is to understand the fallibility of human reasoning. We are hard wired to find patterns in the things that we see and experience. We are not always very good at finding patterns!

In sport this pattern seeking manifests itself in athletes seeing cause and effect relationships that do not exist. An example could be a batsman observing his own poor batting performance. He then tries to understand why his performance is bad (i.e., the cause) and then tries to change the cause of bad performance (to alter the effect).

The real problem exists when poor performance is not down to a single cause, but might just be a fluctuation in the normal physiological and psychological rhythms that we all have.

The batsman effectively begins a self self-fulfilling prophecy where he changes his batting technique, and as a result gets worse. The result is a downward spiral of changing technique because of the belief that the technique is bad and causing poor performance.

It's common for players to fall into that trap. They seek advice from lots of different coaches because the root cause of poor performance is not poor coaching, it's changing something that didn't need to be changed in the first place. The best players trust their technique implicitly, to the point where they don't need to think about it. Poorer players are poorer players because they can't play shots on automatic pilot and as such cannot think about other important things (e.g. field placement etc)

The best skills any athlete can develop is self awareness and rational thinking. If I can help an athlete so see a poor performance rationally, the athlete often gets "better" without doing anything. They only get worse when they convince themselves that poor performance is anything but the normal ups and downs of performance.

Martin I. Jones
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 20, 2012, 06:16:10 PM
Thanks Martin!
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: uknsaunders on November 20, 2012, 06:34:30 PM
That's where sledging comes into play.. Opposition makes sure the batsman wont be able to reboot..

If you are over 10 years old it shouldn't have any effect on your batting. I've heard it all. If you just agree with everything they say they have nowhere too go ie. sledge - you are a crap batsman , answer - tell me something I don't know

Experience plays a big part. Played cricket for 28 years and I know what I can and cannot do. I know when I've exceeded my limitations and when I've made a mistake. People alot younger don't understand their limitations yet. That combined with an ego or immature mindset, results in other mysterious factors being blamed, rather than the individual themselves.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: tim2000s on November 20, 2012, 06:45:42 PM
But Nick, it's always the bat's fault...
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: mad_abt_cricket on November 20, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
If you are over 10 years old it shouldn't have any effect on your batting. I've heard it all. If you just agree with everything they say they have nowhere too go ie. sledge - you are a crap batsman , answer - tell me something I don't know

Experience plays a big part. Played cricket for 28 years and I know what I can and cannot
do. I know when I've exceeded my limitations and when I've made a mistake. People alot
younger don't understand their limitations yet. That combined with an ego or immature
mindset, results in other mysterious factors being blamed, rather than the individual
themselves.


Not sure I agree fully here, in theory what you say is absolutely correct but it doesn't always work in match situations otherwise teams sledging won't be part and parcel of the game at international level.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Manormanic on November 20, 2012, 07:10:32 PM
stuck at the folks so no able to address these issues in anything like the depth that I would ideally like to, but for the time being a couple of onbservations:

1. On the question of form, I don't really imagine that any of us plaY enough, or against skillful enough bowlers and well informed enough skippers for that matter, that we can really get to the pooint where we are being routinely worked over for weeks on end.  What tends to happen is a little patch where you get one great ball, a dodgy decision and play a really stupid shot or run yourself out and all of a sudden you are standing there on the back of ten runs in four digs. At which point you start to convince yourself that smething is wrong.   My approach has always been tospot the point where that could happen and grit out an extra 15 runs before I start t play shots next time out, just to break the illusion of a run...

2.  There are some interesting questions above, but for me the most interesting couple are omitted - why do I play the way that I do? and how should that influence the wy tht I practice?  Those as have seen me bat will know that I'm pretty conservative 95% of the time, despite having the physique to hit the ball miles  and half a dozen 50-70 ball tons behind me.  I got to that point becuse I played in a side of dashers and recognised that I needed to be the guy who would stick around a chunk of the early overs to ensure a consistent total.  So when I practice I go to extremes - in a half hour net I will try and leave everyting for the first 15 minutes (that being my stock in trade) and will then spend 15 minutes trying to either murder the ball or hit t to wierd places - because I may not do this oftenin the middle, but I need to have som muscle memory of how to do it to fall bak on when the time comes.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: uknsaunders on November 20, 2012, 07:22:29 PM
Not sure I agree fully here, in theory what you say is absolutely correct but it doesn't always work in match situations otherwise teams sledging won't be part and parcel of the game at international level.

They still have egos and reputations.  Mine has been in tatters for years lol
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: ammo on November 21, 2012, 10:46:13 AM
Bat on ball if you are doing that should be fine
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Bruce on November 21, 2012, 12:11:45 PM
Bat on ball if you are doing that should be fine
Is this the most blind comment ever?

I don't think many of us struggle getting bat on ball, This is more to do with timing the ball, hitting the gaps we want, getting your feet going to drive the opening quick down the ground for four.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 21, 2012, 04:16:15 PM
maybe Ed Smith likes to read the forum... here via cricinfo are his thoughts, in a piece about sehwag who remains one of my heroes. actually this article had everything for me, even a quote from aakash chopra. note also the comments on how long it takes to score a hundred... you may have seen that before too...

www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/592138.html


The pragmatic art of
Virender Sehwag
He has reached an
understanding with his own
flaws, refused to compromise his
strengths, and stayed true to
himself
Ed Smith
November 21, 2012
The conventional definition of mental strength is much too narrow. Mental strength is not only about guts and determination, sacrifice and suffering. It is also about holding your nerve, about protecting your self-belief under criticism. It is about saying: "I know what works for me.

Sometimes my style of play will look terrible. But over time, I will deliver. And I won't become like everyone else just to avoid
criticism." That takes real guts, too. In fact, the justified refusal to compromise your strengths is the ultimate form of mental strength.

By that measure, Virender Sehwag has exceptional mental strength. As he approaches his 100th Test match, we will hear a lot about Sehwag's remarkable hand-eye coordination, his natural ball-striking, his gift of timing and power. But those strengths needed to be nurtured, to be protected from the many voices that demanded that Sehwag curb his natural instincts and play a different way. Sehwag mastered one of the hardest tricks in sport: he reached an accommodation with his own flaws. He recognised that he could not iron out his weaknesses without losing his voice. In simple terms, he stayed true to himself. The whole game is much richer because he did just that.

I first watched Sehwag when Kent played India in 2002. Even then, there was a lot of talk about what he couldn't do - that he couldn't resist going for his shots, that he got out too easily, that he didn't adapt. I noticed something different. It wasn't the way he hit the bad balls for four. It was the way he dispatched the good ones.

The bowlers ran up and bowled on a length; Sehwag then drove those length balls for four, all along the ground, with very little apparent risk. Not many players can do that. It was a pattern that would be repeated for 100 Tests.

If Sehwag's mental resilience is
underestimated, so is his technique - at least certain strands of his technique. What struck me that day in 2002 was the purity of his bat swing, how squarely the bat face met the ball on impact. And how often he middled the ball.

Isn't that, surely, a central component of a "good technique"?

Yes, Rahul Dravid and Sachin Tendulkar developed more sophisticated techniques that could adapt to difficult pitches. And adaptability, of course, is the ultimate gauge of the ideal all-round technique. But in terms of a technique that makes the best possible contact with a ball flying in a straight line at 85mph, I do not think I've seen a better one than Sehwag's. God-given talent alone - a good eye and fast hands - will not allow you to hit that many balls for four.

Cricket has long misunderstood technique. For too long, the word has been wrongly linked to
obduracy and self-denial.

Technique is simply a set of skills that allows you to respond to the challenges of your sport. It is as much about attacking options as watertight defence. It is Lionel Messi's exceptional technique, his control of the ball, that allows him to play with such flair for Barcelona. It is Roger Federer's basic technique that allows him to play such a dazzling array of shots from any part of the tennis court. So it is with Sehwag. It is his technical mastery of attacking shots that puts extraordinary pressure on the bowler. I remember hearing from Stuart Clark when Australia were about to play the Rest of the World XI in 2005. "Just had a bowlers' meeting," Clark explained, "the area of the pitch we're supposed to land it on against Sehwag is about two millimetres by two millimetres!" A fraction full: expect to be driven for four. A fraction short: expect to be punched off the back foot for four.

Sehwag takes boundary hitting very seriously. It is a skill borne of deep attention to detail: you don't become so good at something without loving it. Many great batsmen sit in the dressing room talking about how the players in the middle are missing out on singles. Sehwag, apparently, pipes up when someone misses an attacking opportunity. "He missed a four!" he will say regretfully.

He also knows which bowlers to target. Aakash Chopra recalls how ruthlessly Sehwag seized on the most vulnerable bowler. He knew exactly which bowlers he could destroy. That takes intelligence as well as self-awareness. And it is a huge benefit to the team. A batsman who can "knock out" one of the opposition's bowlers changes the whole balance of the match. If one bowler effectively cannot bowl when Sehwag is at the wicket, then the others tire much more quickly.

Like all great players, Sehwag developed a game that suited him. Dravid once told me that Brian Lara and Tendulkar were so talented that they could regularly score Test hundreds in three or four hours. But Dravid felt he had to be prepared to bat for more like five or six hours for his hundreds.

Quite simply, in order to score as heavily as Lara and Tendulkar, Dravid thought he had to bat for more balls. Every batsman has to face up to a version of that calculation: what is my natural tempo, what is the appropriate amount of risk for my game?

But there are two sides to that
equation. First, there is time. Secondly, there is run rate. Dravid calculated that he possessed the defensive technique and psychological skills to spend more time in the middle than most great players. So he would compromise on run rate and extend his occupation of the crease.

Sehwag asked the same question but reached the opposite conclusion. Instead of facing more balls, how about scoring more runs off the balls that he did face?

Sehwag's judgement of his own game, just like Dravid's, has been fully vindicated by his record. Here is the crucial point. Sehwag's approach is not "reckless" or "naïve". It is deeply pragmatic.

Steve Waugh said that Sehwag is the ultimate "KISS" player: Keep It Simple, Stupid. But that is easier said than done. After a series of nicks to the slips, it would have been tempting for Sehwag completely to remodel his technique. But he had the courage to stick to his method and the conviction that when he got back on a pitch that suited him, he would make it pay. After a sparkling hundred in his 99th Test, Sehwag now reaches another century. He is looking to be proved right yet again.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Karlo84 on November 21, 2012, 11:10:22 PM


Sehwag's judgement of his own game, just like Dravid's, has been fully vindicated by his record. Here is the crucial point. Sehwag's approach is not "reckless" or "naïve". It is deeply pragmatic.

Steve Waugh said that Sehwag is the ultimate "KISS" player: Keep It Simple, Stupid. But that is easier said than done. After a series of nicks to the slips, it would have been tempting for Sehwag completely to remodel his technique. But he had the courage to stick to his method and the conviction that when he got back on a pitch that suited him, he would make it pay. After a sparkling hundred in his 99th Test, Sehwag now reaches another century. He is looking to be proved right yet again.

Fantastic article and insightful, Now could the same be said of KP? Another highly attacking batsman that likes to dominate the bowlers... However  is that's "just the way I bat" a suitable 'reason' for failure. I'm sure we have all heard that KP works exceptionally hard etc. To me, this sounds an extremely weak excuse as opposed to the pragmatic approach stated above by Mr "im not bothered where you bowl it- it's going" Sehwag.

Going back to earlier points regarding clearing your head... How are you meant to clear your head (when thinking about trying to clear your head)?! Using the computer analogy I find it best to search for a restart or reboot button if you will. Generally the reset button is a quick quote to yourself such as "watch the ball" etc, not only can this prove useful as a reminder but it is also the mental trigger to forget everything else. Practised enough it will become second nature and the worries about clearing your head will be replaced with "shall I break out the gangnam style when celebrating the ton!"  ;)
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: LDifa on November 22, 2012, 12:42:56 AM
My best innings last season involved me repeating to myself not out, not out, not out as the bowler was running up, every single ball was played on its merit until the one that I got myself out to! I stopped concentrating and got a leading edge when pulling a half track.

I can only think of one wicket when I was got out rather than getting myself out, having had quite a bit of coaching it was ace to watch myself on video - and talking to the coach he was interested in my reaction to how I felt, and I was quite negative, but on watching the recording I looked good, miles better than playing myself down in my head and i looked in control of what I was doing.

So much of sport is won and lost in our heads, so I try and reboot every ball, by repeating the basics, stance, a couple of taps of the bat, a shift of weight onto each foot and a decent back lift, high enough to be able to have a statement of intent, but ready for almost everything.

And I do try and keep it simple.

This is an ace topic
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Manormanic on November 22, 2012, 12:22:59 PM
However  is that's "just the way I bat" a suitable 'reason' for failure. I'm sure we have all heard that KP works exceptionally hard etc. To me, this sounds an extremely weak excuse as opposed to the pragmatic approach stated above by Mr "im not bothered where you bowl it- it's going" Sehwag.


Quite agree that KP's excuse is not entirely valid when he phrases it in such a self aggranising way, though it is actually not that different to Sehwag's in essence.  The only thing I would say that differs between the two is that Sehwag is pretty classical - see ball, hit ball - whereas KP tends to try and do odd things...
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: ajmw89 on November 22, 2012, 04:36:23 PM
KP tries to get too clever with reverse sweeps, switch hits etc. even though he can clearly play the "see ball hit ball" game.  Sehwag only really plays "see ball hit ball" cricket, which means that there's less that can go wrong.  Yes, he doesn't move his feet and has technical flaws, but with most things, organic and mechanical, the more movement there is, the higher the chance of errors/mistakes/things going wrong
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: jamesisapayne on November 22, 2012, 05:30:52 PM
My best innings last season involved me repeating to myself not out, not out, not out as the bowler was running up, every single ball was played on its merit until the one that I got myself out to! I stopped concentrating and got a leading edge when pulling a half track.

I can only think of one wicket when I was got out rather than getting myself out, having had quite a bit of coaching it was ace to watch myself on video - and talking to the coach he was interested in my reaction to how I felt, and I was quite negative, but on watching the recording I looked good, miles better than playing myself down in my head and i looked in control of what I was doing.

So much of sport is won and lost in our heads, so I try and reboot every ball, by repeating the basics, stance, a couple of taps of the bat, a shift of weight onto each foot and a decent back lift, high enough to be able to have a statement of intent, but ready for almost everything.

And I do try and keep it simple.

This is an ace topic

This is me all over ;-)
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Canners on November 22, 2012, 05:44:31 PM
My best innings last season involved me repeating to myself not out, not out, not out as the bowler was running up, every single ball was played on its merit until the one that I got myself out to! I stopped concentrating and got a leading edge when pulling a half track.

I can only think of one wicket when I was got out rather than getting myself out, having had quite a bit of coaching it was ace to watch myself on video - and talking to the coach he was interested in my reaction to how I felt, and I was quite negative, but on watching the recording I looked good, miles better than playing myself down in my head and i looked in control of what I was doing.

So much of sport is won and lost in our heads, so I try and reboot every ball, by repeating the basics, stance, a couple of taps of the bat, a shift of weight onto each foot and a decent back lift, high enough to be able to have a statement of intent, but ready for almost everything.

And I do try and keep it simple.

This is an ace topic

this works for me also :) "not out, not out"
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: ajmw89 on November 22, 2012, 05:45:29 PM
My best innings last season involved me repeating to myself not out, not out, not out as the bowler was running up, every single ball was played on its merit until the one that I got myself out to! I stopped concentrating and got a leading edge when pulling a half track.

I can only think of one wicket when I was got out rather than getting myself out, having had quite a bit of coaching it was ace to watch myself on video - and talking to the coach he was interested in my reaction to how I felt, and I was quite negative, but on watching the recording I looked good, miles better than playing myself down in my head and i looked in control of what I was doing.

So much of sport is won and lost in our heads, so I try and reboot every ball, by repeating the basics, stance, a couple of taps of the bat, a shift of weight onto each foot and a decent back lift, high enough to be able to have a statement of intent, but ready for almost everything.

And I do try and keep it simple.

This is an ace topic

I usually say "Watch the ball" to myself over and over.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Manormanic on November 22, 2012, 06:50:09 PM
KP tries to get too clever with reverse sweeps, switch hits etc. even though he can clearly play the "see ball hit ball" game.  Sehwag only really plays "see ball hit ball" cricket, which means that there's less that can go wrong.  Yes, he doesn't move his feet and has technical flaws, but with most things, organic and mechanical, the more movement there is, the higher the chance of errors/mistakes/things going wrong

similar to Trescothick and a few others really - its a technique that forces the bowler to work out how to get you out, whereas someone like KP when he is not in top form bowlers can sort of wait for it to just happen.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Karlo84 on November 23, 2012, 02:53:01 PM
Bowlers get 6 legitimate chances per over to get you out, a batsman (should) only have one chance per innings. They do not need additional help through high risk shots and low percentage cricket. Look at the most prolific run scorers over recent history none of whom were particularly revolutionary in their style of play. Yes at times footwork may be lacking (Sehwag, Tresco etc) or it may be felt they have been overly aggressive (Hayden, Gayle) but all have something in common -  a strong core, well balanced and well set upon striking the ball. Even if you look at players such as Chanderpaul who im sure all know starts off chest on the bowler,but upon delivery he has moved into a settled (relatively orthodox) position. Inginuity is fantastic for T20 but Tests are called so because thas what they are; A test of resolve and ability to work out how to score runs with as little risk as possible. I'd much rather have players scoring 50-60 odd consistently than a few single figure scores followed by a mammoth ton followed by more single figure scores. They would probably lead to a similar average but give a completely unfair view of the determination of the players. Its very easy to give it away on green tops or dry dusty turning decks and make hay on roads, however meaningful runs are scored when its tough. Iam not condoning going into a shell scoring at 2 runs per over as that would not make a good spectacle and the modern day game demands a higher runs per over average than yesteryear, but that can be acheived without giving it away.

Not sure whether this was a rant or an observation but im done lol.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Blazer on November 23, 2012, 10:42:43 PM
I have only been playing club cricket since the last 2 years. The first year I did well and wanted to push on from there. After having a good start to the previous season, I put extra pressure on myself to perform well, where I got ridiculously angry at myself for playing a bad shot or failing to put away a bad ball. The result was loss of touch completely. I got dropped into the third team again . I couldn't enjoy batting at all and started wondering what I did wrong. I bought a couple of extra bats , some extra pairs of gloves , Aero strippers in an attempt to improve batting (Silly me ) but couldn't get a run . To make things worse I had a freak cricket accident where I ended up with 9 stitches to my lip . I had a fresh thought about why I played in the first place which is to enjoy cricket. I stopped bothering about performance and kept on reminding myself something that Ian Bell said in an interview about not being hard on yourself when it's tough.I ditched all the gear which was burden, They feel heavy when you don't score runs  and stuck to one bat and used my lucky thigh pad thereafter. I got out only twice in the next 5 matches and ended up getting a classy fifty odd in the last game batting at number 6 for 2nd XI . I learnt a few lessons the last season , the main ones being to enjoy the game and not to be harsh on yourself.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: ammo on November 24, 2012, 01:11:58 AM
Is this the most blind comment ever?

I don't think many of us struggle getting bat on ball, This is more to do with timing the ball, hitting the gaps we want, getting your feet going to drive the opening quick down the ground for four.

I believe he was asking us on our individual experience,
in my opinion when you are out of form, people tend to over-think batting, getting bat on ball consistantly can be the most reassuring thing when out of form.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 24, 2012, 07:21:06 AM
the question is around whether you understand your game, what works for you and why it works.

I am trying to challenge the batsman to find ways of being more consistent and this includes knowing what works for you.

obviously if the only thing you want to think about is "see ball hit ball" and it works for you, fine.

but I am really asking a different question.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: Buzz on November 24, 2012, 08:47:06 AM
Here is Martin Crowe on cricinfo on a similar subject...

www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/592518.html

Look within, look in the mirror and ask yourself to stand up and be the men you are.

Look within, be honest, strip away the rubbish and focus on what's important and what's really and essentially you.

As a batsman, settle on a method and style of batting that you can be true to, day in, day out. It has nothing to do with confidence. If a top player relies on confidence, he will never achieve much. Rely on method and repetition. Often I felt awful, stressed, slow, even
distracted, but once I got to the middle, I relied on a method of controlling my thoughts and executing a straight bat with sure footwork. Even in a bad mood, if I relied on those basic principles I could still forge a score that was respectable. That's all anyone can
ask.
Title: Re: Batting: Understanding your own game
Post by: no1northernbloke on November 26, 2012, 01:46:21 PM
I would think that most people who have scored a reasonable amount of runs know that they play best when they don't really think about it. See ball, hit ball. But also most batters will know that they have a tendency to slip into certain bad habits... If you're having a bad trot, get someone who knows your game to have a look at you - they will have an idea if you're doing something differently. I'd sooner get a team mate who I played with for a long time to look at me than to go to a coach who I don't know (although the team mate should be decent player)

Overall don't try to overthink things - if you need it drop down a couple of levels and guest for a midweek team. I know of a lot of players that will play Thursday night league cricket and use it as a net for weekend.... Get some runs under your belt, get your feet moving again and get the feeling of dominating an attack. Carry the same feeling into your Saturday games...