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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: SOULMAN1012 on November 23, 2012, 09:12:21 PM

Title: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 23, 2012, 09:12:21 PM
Just wanted to see the views of forum members on Stuart Broad!

In my opinion he does not deserve his place in the starting 11 and I would also say that he has been below par for the last 12months or so. If I remember he used to bowl 85mph as an average now seems to be late 70's and does not seem to do a lot with it. His batting also seems to have gone the same way.

Would he benefit from a few months backin county cricket to prepare for the Aussies in the summer?
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Buzz on November 23, 2012, 09:17:32 PM
while i sort of agree, he has taken more test wickets in 2012 than any other seam bowler.

curse those inconvenient stats. he is a serious daisy bowler though.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Cowcorner on November 23, 2012, 09:18:07 PM
A spell back in the counties might teach him to stop acting like a petulant child every time there is a misfield......
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 23, 2012, 09:27:03 PM
That's true, he does like to chuck out his dummy every now and then lol. Always funny when he miss fields off Swann lol
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: uknsaunders on November 23, 2012, 09:27:31 PM
Problem with this kind of topic is if you say he is a waste of space he'll take 5 wickets and score a ton. If you say he's wonderful then he'll continue to be pants. I'm keeping quiet...
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: PedalsMcgrew on November 23, 2012, 09:31:28 PM
I honestly think the time has come for a bit of a freshening up of the England side. Broad needs to get a prolonged rest as does Bell, Bresnan and (if he keeps getting outbowled by Panesar) Swann.

I just don't see Broad and Bresnan carrying a wicket threat. Swann will always be a threat but it would seem as though Monty is MORE of a threat currently so Swann's place must be discussed at the very least.

An attack of Anderson, Finn plus 2 from Meaker, Onions, Swann and Panesar doesn't seem all that bad to me and certainly in New Zealand after Christmas might actually be quite a handful.....
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: joeljonno on November 23, 2012, 09:32:54 PM
He bowls really well at home, just seems to struggle abroad for some reason.  He does seem to have slowed a bit but not sure whether that is a ploy or his body not holding up.  The big question is who would replace him?  Bresnan struggled in first test and Finn is not fit.  Maybe Onions would be more successful but having Onions, Anderson, Panesar would make the tail quite long.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: PedalsMcgrew on November 23, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
You can't afford to pick a bowling line up based on their batting ability though! That's just mental!
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Cowcorner on November 23, 2012, 09:36:27 PM
I think we should reactivate Hoggie or GBH - bands make comebacks with alarming regularity - why not top England bowlers??
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: joeljonno on November 23, 2012, 09:37:38 PM
True, it is mental, but when you have 2-3 bowlers who are similar in standard it will be a factor.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: cricketbadger on November 23, 2012, 09:51:57 PM
NO
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 23, 2012, 09:58:12 PM
Personally I think meaker should get a go, raw pace to along with Finn both 90mph plus. Put prior up one in the order. I totally agree that your bowlers get wickets batters the runs. If the tail scores you runs that is a bonus.

Are the management brave enough to drop him as he is vice captain and T20 captain though is also maybe an issue!
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: cricketbadger on November 23, 2012, 09:59:56 PM
its blindingly obvious the wickets in India arent going to offer much swing or seam movement
so drop Broad, and replace him with some raw pace in Meaker, use his pace to unsettle the flat track bullies of India
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: joeljonno on November 23, 2012, 10:00:59 PM
There's potential to "rest" him for the third test if Finn is fit but not for Meaker, even though he probably should get a go with his pace.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: jw17 on November 23, 2012, 10:31:01 PM
Not on current form no, saying that he has got the highest wickets for any seam bowler in this calender year in test cricket so he cant be doing all bad.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: PedalsMcgrew on November 23, 2012, 10:53:39 PM
Not on current form no, saying that he has got the highest wickets for any seam bowler in this calender year in test cricket so he cant be doing all bad.

It's a fair point but it's a stat that doesn't tell the whole story. If all the other seam bowlers had played the same number of games on the same pitches as he did then I doubt he would be number 1!
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: MJB3 on November 23, 2012, 11:54:30 PM
Broad is an average Test bowler. Attitude aside his bowling average is a fraction under 32 (31.93) and a strike rate of in every 63 balls, which are almost identical to Tim Bresnans record ( 31.3 at 63 balls). Yet one is the golden boy of a generation, and the other is just a workmanlike bowler? One can also bat and isn't a prat.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Manormanic on November 24, 2012, 01:48:15 PM
I just don't see Broad and Bresnan carrying a wicket threat. Swann will always be a threat but it would seem as though Monty is MORE of a threat currently so Swann's place must be discussed at the very least.

Really?  I think Swann bowled pretty well both in the first test and again here and certainly has done nothing to deserve being usurped by Monty, who has also bowled well but no better than Swann really.  I know some people don't like the theory of all around cricketers but even if their bowling was exactly equal, surely Swann's occasional late order runs and excellent slip fielding carry him through over Mr Comedy...
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: petehosk on November 24, 2012, 02:47:59 PM
I still think that Swann is performing at the moment, but Monty also looks excellent most of the time and is still learning and gaining confidence.
I would love to try the following team:

On spinning wickets:

Cook, Compton, Trott, KP, Bell (or Bairstow depending on Bell's form!) Root, Prior, Swann, Monty, Finn, Anderson.

On less spinning wickets I'd love to see..........
Cook, Compton, Trott, KP, Bell (or Bairstow depending on Bell's form!) Root, Prior, Swann, Meaker, Finn, Anderson


And on a greener wicket which is unlikely to take spin (even on day4/5) then I would even go as far as replacing Swann with Onions/Dearnbach or Broad if the conditions are suited to his style!
But I really can't see Broad being left out, even if his form is not great with the bat and ordinary with ball!
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: bigbenh99 on November 25, 2012, 11:09:40 PM
I've long thought Broad hasn't deserved his place. I always compare him to the Theo Walcott of cricket, both do nothing for several games on end, then pop up with a couple of goals/a five-for to secure their place in England team for the foreseeable future. Broad made the ICC Test Team of the Year, but when you look at his stats for the qualifying period they were hugely boosted by the West Indies series, discounting those matches his stats were: 8 matches, 33 wickets @ 25.1 and 155 runs @ 17.2, including a 58* to hugely boost that average. I think he's a decent player but in no way deserves to have his test place set in stone, as it is at the moment. I think Onions deserve much more of a chance, Bresnan hasn't played anywhere near his best for the last year at least. Meaker bowls fast and aggressive and is a good biffer at 10/11. I also think Woakes deserve a test place, can be a great bowler and can also bat at 6 or 7 without a doubt.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: cricketbadger on November 25, 2012, 11:14:54 PM
how does he still average 26? i can barely remember him scoring more than 26 any time iv watched him, aart from his ton
he looked shocking batting today
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Canners on November 25, 2012, 11:16:51 PM
why not get morgan in for broad? and strengthen the batting once more
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: procricket on November 25, 2012, 11:17:06 PM
Think if it not spinning there not many better in the world than swann
Agreed with hosk 100 per cent
Yes monty is doing it well on the dust bowl but left wait and see

In a world of over coach you have to love month for all he does and brings

As for mr big pants hate his petulants and for some reason I blame him for the kp affair I know well think it may not have been him but he leaves me with the school bully in the corner feeling not impressed by broad although his dad is my 2nd favourite player

Morgan not overly impressed
.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: alba caerulea on November 25, 2012, 11:27:01 PM
why not get morgan in for broad? and strengthen the batting once more

I thought this earlier but with Root not Morgan. I don't think England would ever go into a test match with 1 seamer though, its taken some absolute thrashings to convince Flower to drop the 3rd seamer!

If Broad is left out he will be 'rested' not dropped
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on November 26, 2012, 09:25:16 PM
I would like to see another middle order batter like Morgan come in for next test and just play the 1 seamer in Anderson. The next track will be as flat and slow paced as possible and England can have Anderson, Swann, monty as main bowlers. They have kp fat Sam and trott to bowl also overs and so far England's seam bowlers have taken 3 wickets I think and only 1 wicket to seam in the entire test just finished and that was 2nd ball of match.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: tushar sehgal on November 27, 2012, 01:06:40 AM
Here is an idea...what if you played a 2nd keeper batsman in line after prior, kieswetter, and put him in slips..he will get you more runs than broad and also be a safe hand at slips (you'd think)...
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: six and out on November 27, 2012, 06:51:09 AM
Kolkata will be an absolute motorway because of the last test and it is usually a batting paradise anyway - see the last 2 tests played there below -

Ind vs WI Nov 2011 - 1247 runs for 27 wickets in the match (ave 46.1 runs per wicket)
Ind vs SA Feb 2010 - 1229 runs for 26 wickets in the match (ave 47.2 runs per wicket)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/engine/match/535998.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/engine/match/441826.html

We need to go into the test with something different then Broad's trundlers at the moment - so if Finn doesn't come through his Performance Squad Warm Up Game fitness test then Meaker has to play - just to add some firepower into the attack.

You shouldn't need an extra batsman on the wicket at Kolkata, if anything it will be an extra bowler to be able to take 20 wickets.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Manormanic on November 27, 2012, 10:22:16 AM
why not get morgan in for broad? and strengthen the batting once more
on current form it might even strenthen the bowling! :)
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Manormanic on November 27, 2012, 10:23:26 AM
Here is an idea...what if you played a 2nd keeper batsman in line after prior, kieswetter, and put him in slips..he will get you more runs than broad and also be a safe hand at slips (you'd think)...

very rarely works that way though, as the two are surprisingly different.  Look at Bairstow - fields short leg or on the ropes - and Buttler, who has experience of this in the county game too and rides the ropes.
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: lastmanstand on November 27, 2012, 10:29:41 AM
what are people calling current form? what should a bowler be averaging in test cricket??

cricinfo have got the stats below for this calender year and his bowling average is less than Anderson, Finn and Bresnan.

Not saying hes been anywhere near useful in India but not everyone can take a 5fer every test.

Theres a lot of nations with some average test cricketers making a living

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?class=1;id=2012;type=year


PS Morgan is averaging 13 in 3 tests this year, which is less than Broad!
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: cricketbadger on November 27, 2012, 12:20:10 PM
very rarely works that way though, as the two are surprisingly different.  Look at Bairstow - fields short leg or on the ropes - and Buttler, who has experience of this in the county game too and rides the ropes.

but why do they ride the ropes? because they are the quickest
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: Manormanic on November 27, 2012, 12:30:52 PM
undoubtedly - but if they were great slippers, you can rest assured that those abilities would outweigh their sped over the ground for the obvious reasons!
Title: Re: Does Stuart Broad deserve a test place???
Post by: ianbuchanan on November 27, 2012, 05:51:19 PM
I'll be honest, even when he's performed I've never really rated him.

I think I just dislike the guy...