Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => Topic started by: vividgreen on November 29, 2012, 02:19:51 PM
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Over the last couple of years we have noticed a growing trend of international cricketers constantly breaking down, in particular the bowlers, namely the Aussie's upcoming young brigade and some recent issues with Finn, etc from england.
Why do you think the emerging crop of younger players are some prone to injury ? is it the amount of cricket they play or is it the softer upbringing of today's youth with the over parenting and mothering of todays children.
Are "the kids of today just not as tough as the kids of yesterday".
My thoughts are;
Most kids are consumed by xbox, ipods, etc and just don't do the physical exertion that past kids did - riding bikes, playing sport all day long, climbing trees, etc. When i was young, i had nothing but a bike, football and cricket bat and lived and breathed it - mum wouldn't see me all day.
I know in sport (as i coach juniors) everything is regulated and this breeds mediocrity and weaker sportsman - each kid gets rotated and there are limitations on how many overs one can bowl and how balls one can face before having to retire. This frustrates the better cricketers and keeps the weaker cricketers in the sport longer who deprive the best cricketers the opportunity to improve and excel. What happened to survival of the fittest and the pecking order in sport, where you had to earn your spot.
This make you tough, which in turns makes you stronger when you get into the senior ranks.
or do you think, that us parents are making our kids play too much sport too early because we all want the next Flintoff, Federer or Tendulkar..........
Now this is a discussion for the masses - will be interesting to see what people think.
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I think it's more about bowlers being told/asked/encouraged to bowl faster than their bodies are physically capable of......
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sports science gone mad
everything is far more professional
players urged not to play with slight niggles by professional team doctors and physios, in years gone by this wouldnt have happened, players would play through the injuries
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I reckon its got something to do with the time they spend in the gym rather than out there bowling!! Fast bowlers of 20 years ago never did all the gym work the current crop do, and they got through a lot more overs in county/test/one day cricket.
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I think its because youngsters are tuned up to be perfect specimens in the gym as Byo has said. It means that they are so highly strung that when one tiny part of that goes awry, the rest goes as well. Technique is also micro-coached so much that it puts strain on everything whereas 20/30 years ago, imo technique was a bit more of a bustle up and release, and you needed to be built a bit like an ox to be seriously quick (Lillee, Thompson etc).
I don't think its sports science gone mad, as these players are worth a lot to their teams and if they're not right, and they keep playing, they will do more damage, be out longer, and not figure in important games. Makes perfect sense to me!
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There are that many variables that it is impossible for anyone to pinpoint it. If they could it wouldn't be happening!
First thing is that bowling fast is not easy work, the strain that the body goes through with each delivery is huge and to repeat this for 6 balls, 25 times a days is tough work. Injuries happen in all sports, Andrey Arshavin has even been injured and he barely moves a muscle so no surprise that fast bowlers break down quite often
Without a doubt the volume of international cricket played at present plays a part. As Test cricket is so intense, bowlers are more often than not performing near the top of their physical threshold, where injuries are most likely. In days gone by much more domestic cricket was played by international bowlers between Tests but by their own admission the intensity was far less and bowlers often ran in at 75/80% of their usual effort. This helped to keep them flexible, in rythym and to protect niggles
Some injuries, usually stress fractures, have been linked to mineral deficiencies in diets of athletes as children. Obviously important as this is when the body is forming. Athletes from less-priviliged backgrounds are more subsceptible to this for obvious reasons. The South African quick Ngam was diagnosed with something like this
Obviously the other point that has been mentioned is the one of sedentary upbringing – video games, tv etc. I don’t strictly go along with this because I had a console (Mega Drive!) and tv in my room as a kid but never would I choose to play on it over going outside and playing football or cricket or tennis. I think that if you are interested in sport enough to be an elite athlete it is unlikely you put video games in front of that sport even as a child. Increasingly sedentary lifestyles can be rightly blamed for many things – heart disease, obesity etc but I do not believe that injuries in international fast bowlers is one of them
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I reckon its got something to do with the time they spend in the gym rather than out there bowling!! Fast bowlers of 20 years ago never did all the gym work the current crop do, and they got through a lot more overs in county/test/one day cricket.
This
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There are that many variables that it is impossible for anyone to pinpoint it. If they could it wouldn't be happening!
First thing is that bowling fast is not easy work, the strain that the body goes through with each delivery is huge and to repeat this for 6 balls, 25 times a days is tough work. Injuries happen in all sports, Andrey Arshavin has even been injured and he barely moves a muscle so no surprise that fast bowlers break down quite often
Without a doubt the volume of international cricket played at present plays a part. As Test cricket is so intense, bowlers are more often than not performing near the top of their physical threshold, where injuries are most likely. In days gone by much more domestic cricket was played by international bowlers between Tests but by their own admission the intensity was far less and bowlers often ran in at 75/80% of their usual effort. This helped to keep them flexible, in rythym and to protect niggles
Some injuries, usually stress fractures, have been linked to mineral deficiencies in diets of athletes as children. Obviously important as this is when the body is forming. Athletes from less-priviliged backgrounds are more subsceptible to this for obvious reasons. The South African quick Ngam was diagnosed with something like this
Obviously the other point that has been mentioned is the one of sedentary upbringing – video games, tv etc. I don’t strictly go along with this because I had a console (Mega Drive!) and tv in my room as a kid but never would I choose to play on it over going outside and playing football or cricket or tennis. I think that if you are interested in sport enough to be an elite athlete it is unlikely you put video games in front of that sport even as a child. Increasingly sedentary lifestyles can be rightly blamed for many things – heart disease, obesity etc but I do not believe that injuries in international fast bowlers is one of them
This comment is a darn sight easier to read when split into paragraphs lol
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Is strength and conditioning really the answer?
It's the modern way.
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I might be completely wrong here but here is my 2 cents
When you are bowling 4 overs per day(T20) - your body gets used to a certain level of effort over a given period of time.
Then in a test match over the period of 5 sessions(given other team lasts 5 sessions batting) - you are expected to bowl as much as 8 T20 games (32 overs).
At international level - intensity of bowling spells is expected to stay the same.
Yes schedules are crazy but fast bowler's body is now exposed to wider range of effort level (4 overs to a test match).
It "might" be one of the things. :D
Jag.
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All of the above are factors but I think the biggest is missed.
The obsessions with sports science etc means that conditioning is very specific to a sport. This is okay in some ways but when the same sports pressure kids, at least the ones with serious top level potential, to choose a career path (ie a single sport) when they are 10-11 years old as opposed to playing a wide range of sports as they would have done twenty, thirty, fourty years ago, the result can be an uneven development of the body. And it is the weaker points which get injured...
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All of the above are factors but I think the biggest is missed.
The obsessions with sports science etc means that conditioning is very specific to a sport. This is okay in some ways but when the same sports pressure kids, at least the ones with serious top level potential, to choose a career path (ie a single sport) when they are 10-11 years old as opposed to playing a wide range of sports as they would have done twenty, thirty, fourty years ago, the result can be an uneven development of the body. And it is the weaker points which get injured...
Not 100% sure about this, the private schools from which a lot of these lads are picked encourage participating in cricket rugby and hockey. Specialisation doesn't really come till sixth form, at least that is my observation. Could have to do with all the cricket they play these days, the emergence of t20 cricket has added all sorts of competitions like clt20 ipl bpl and the t20 world cup, I know nothing of the subject so it's just a suggestion. Wouldn't put it down to soft upbringing. Go spend a year in a poor suburb of Jamaica or Barbados!
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This comment is a darn sight easier to read when split into paragraphs lol
Sorry about that! Computer needs a serious Defrag
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A lot more cricket is being played and a lot more training is being done.
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kids these days are soft as (No Swearing Please)
i remember as a 16 year old playing 4 games a week, opening in every one and keeping wicket as well. That is a total of 200 overs wicket keeping and i used to bat a long time as well, probably 75 - 100 overs a week .......... i hear some 18 year olds telling me they are tired after batting 6 overs and that they are going to start hitting out.
then they turn up in midweek and tell me they are tired so dont feel like batting.
anyone born in the 1990's is soft.
thread closed.
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kids these days are soft as (No Swearing Please)
i remember as a 16 year old playing 4 games a week, opening in every one and keeping wicket as well. That is a total of 200 overs wicket keeping and i used to bat a long time as well, probably 75 - 100 overs a week .......... i hear some 18 year olds telling me they are tired after batting 6 overs and that they are going to start hitting out.
then they turn up in midweek and tell me they are tired so dont feel like batting.
anyone born in the 1990's is soft.
thread closed.
Yeah, yeah and exams are getting easier, and life is generally easier for young people, don't know they're born! I pray to god you're joking as there are a lot of young people no doubt who will be revving their engines! I await your response as to whether you are joking before I go full bore at you!
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We toured Blackpool at the start of the year and I was stunned by how many games of cricket they played a year. Watching the teams warm up was like watching an army prepare for war, certainly not soft as (No Swearing Please) at that club and this was every game 12 year olds plus.
Made us feel like a load of unfit drunkards....
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Made us feel like a load of unfit drunkards....
But if you were on tour, no doubt you were a bunch of unfit drunkards! :)
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kids these days are soft as (No Swearing Please)
i remember as a 16 year old playing 4 games a week, opening in every one and keeping wicket as well. That is a total of 200 overs wicket keeping and i used to bat a long time as well, probably 75 - 100 overs a week .......... i hear some 18 year olds telling me they are tired after batting 6 overs and that they are going to start hitting out.
then they turn up in midweek and tell me they are tired so dont feel like batting.
anyone born in the 1990's is soft.
thread closed.
I'm sorry but this is complete and utter (No Swearing Please).
I would play cricket every single day of the week if I could. I was born in the 90s, given the opportunity I'd also bat as high as possibly every week. You say anyone born in the 90's is soft? Jumping to a big conclusion there. Me and some mates used to go the nets every single day from about 10 - 5 at night during summer holidays at school. Then play at a weekend.
People automatically assume these days that 'young people' and 'kids' are good for nothing. When it's the complete opposite of that with some people. I will agree that there is a % of people who are like you say, but people who actually really want to play a sport. Will do so at every opportunity to do so.
IMO if the kids are just wanting to hit out after six overs. It's either there watching to much T20, or there not being coached properly
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I reckon he must be joking pal, as no-one can be so (No Swearing Please) ignorant as that. Looking for a bite I reckon, either that, or so geriatric that he's actually forgotten what being young is like!
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Can we cut the swearing out please
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Can we cut the swearing out please
Apologies
But if you were on tour, no doubt you were a bunch of unfit drunkards! :)
We were a shambles every night and were woken up to the sound of kids netting from 8am!! Onwards. Got the fright of our lives one morning to hear a young quick charging in!
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Can we cut the swearing out please
Sorry Johnny, nothing grinds my gears more than old people with no grasp on life having a pop at young people
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My apologies to Johnny I'd have thought mine would have been blanked.
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Sorry Johnny, nothing grinds my gears more than old people with no grasp on life having a pop at young people
Bunch of young muggers with their robot music, itelephones and freakster haircuts....bring back conscription! :D :D
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bring back conscription! :D :D
Certainly agree with that lol, would solve a lot of the problems associated with the yoof of today. Unfortunately, not all people are too bothered by tainting young people with the same brush!
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When my league used to have re-arrangements for call offs I quite often used to keep for 90 overs in a weekend and bat twice. I was talking very recently with 2 team-mates about us not playing enough cricket compared to other places. I am now actively seeking a Sunday team for next year to play more often while I am still free and able to!
But then again i'm hard - I was born in 87 ;)
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dodont forget this is a site full of cricket badgers so all the youngsters on here are well into their cricket
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There were only few injuries back in the day because sports science was not looked into seriously and it was a manly thing to carry on playing despite injuries. Injuries were diagnosed/ misgraded or even worse completely missed. Sporting science has improved so has general fitness . As awareness increased, different grades of injuries have popped up and most of the resting is as a precaution rather than their lack of fitness. I personally believe it's foolish to aggravate injury in the name of being tough although it gives you massive ego boost .
Born 1982 :D
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dodont forget this is a site full of cricket badgers so all the youngsters on here are well into their cricket
So you were trolling then, or what point were you trying to make?! Too much smoking of the waccy baccy back in the 70's while watching Marley seems to have corrupted your views a wee bit! By the way, you're not the only one who can make ridiculous assumptions!
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kids these days are soft as (No Swearing Please)
i remember as a 16 year old playing 4 games a week, opening in every one and keeping wicket as well. That is a total of 200 overs wicket keeping and i used to bat a long time as well, probably 75 - 100 overs a week .......... i hear some 18 year olds telling me they are tired after batting 6 overs and that they are going to start hitting out.
then they turn up in midweek and tell me they are tired so dont feel like batting.
anyone born in the 1990's is soft.
thread closed.
Is this a joke
You certainly do not keep the company I do
I could show you lads born in the 90's who have shown more courage in 1 minute than most people do in the whole lives and some of them have not come home I wish I had courage like them
As somebody alluded too the truth is injury get more reported and treated now even minor ailments
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kids these days are soft as (No Swearing Please)
i remember as a 16 year old playing 4 games a week, opening in every one and keeping wicket as well. That is a total of 200 overs wicket keeping and i used to bat a long time as well, probably 75 - 100 overs a week .......... i hear some 18 year olds telling me they are tired after batting 6 overs and that they are going to start hitting out.
then they turn up in midweek and tell me they are tired so dont feel like batting.
anyone born in the 1990's is soft.
thread closed.
sorry but i was born in 98 ... you might just have a bunch of softies who arent dedicated (i know a few) but to slag of a whole decade of generations of cricketers ? many people on the forum were born in the 90s and bowl and bat constantly to improve their game and because they love the sport. me being a bowler have had knee probs etc . i didnt listen to one and know ive got a permanently distorted knee. i can bowl faster than ever without injury but if people do get injurys it is best not to aggravate them no matter how "manly" it is to carry on in summer i bowl an average of 15 overs a day and im high on the batting order to. if you are prepared to call 100s of superbly dedicated and talented cricketers softies then go ahead but i would seriously reconsider what i was saying if i was you . ;)
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Is this a joke
You certainly do not keep the company I do
I could show you lads born in the 90's who have shown more courage in 1 minute than most people do in the whole lives and some of them have not come home I wish I had courage like them
As somebody alluded too the truth is injury get more reported and treated now even minor ailments
Here here Dave..... superb analogy!
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[quoteIs this a joke
You certainly do not keep the company I do
I could show you lads born in the 90's who have shown more courage in 1 minute than most people do in the whole lives and some of them have not come home I wish I had courage like them
Here here Dave..... superb analogy!
[/quote]
if only the forum had a like button ...
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Karan trying to emphasize your point by lying just makes you look silly. You do not bowl 60 overs per day
Well modified lad ;)
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sorry ive fixed it i just realised how ludicrous the number was :/
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Well that thread definitely raised a few eyebrows and got a few people hot under the collar.
I'm a 71 vintage (Warney/Mcgrath era), have played cricket constantly for the nearly the past 30 years and have coached juniors for the past 5 and took great pleasure in reading the varied views - i like to see things from other peoples perspectives.
From what i read, some of you guys have made some valid points and i think you've may have nailed it on the head.
If you love the sport and are driven to succeed, your hunger will not allow you to be soft even when there are so many other distractions for the youth of today. Lets not generalise, we are talking about test cricketers, so if you've made it to that level, you have had a single minded obsession with the sport and are not the norm.
I think the points raised involving, over coaching and todays gym obsession, with an element of sports science, is most likely the cause of todays injuries as growing bodies just can't cope with the physical demands that these pursuits place on young bodies.
Have you ever noticed the physiques of the general 17-20 year lad these days - they are massive and sculptured like Conan. Back in my time the general cricketer was never that size or shape because the gym was never readily available. Some saturdays when i walk onto the cricket field, i look up at the sight screen and think it would be more appropriate if it were a set of rugby poles, when i have this tearaway 6'4 18 year old sprinting in off the long run up. These hulking physiques, over training, over coaching, tweaking with techniques, etc develop bodies that are highly strung and are not subtle or flexible enough to cope with the riggers of todays cricket. Another point of comparison, look at todays endurance sports - triathlons, tennis, etc, most of these top performers are lean and flexible, making them ideal for going the journey.
In the 70's and 80's most kids played every sport going around until they reached about 16, then graduated to the sport they performed best in, so there was never an onus on over coaching or over analysing a particular code, early in life. Todays parents and coaches spot potential in an 8 year old and try to map out there life before the child even gets a chance to enjoy the sport or more importantly, develop their body naturally........