Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: Manormanic on December 11, 2012, 09:53:39 AM
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Leading on from the Greatest T20 side,I thought it might be time to do the "greatest team ever" debate. I'm going to limit this one to player who have played a substantial amount of their cricket after World War II so that we are talking about players of whom we will at least have seen reasonable quality TV footage.
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I'll throw Barry Richards name into the hat,
http://youtu.be/XyHvFArouAM
Quote from Cricinfo
'In a nutshell No other cricketer made such an impact, and gave rise to such speculation of what he might have been, in a career of four Tests. Nine hundreds before lunch and 1000 runs in a season 15 times in first-class cricket add to his legend.'
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Gordon Greenidge used to say that Richards was a better batsman than him, which is saying something...
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Sir Garfield Sobers, need I say anymore!
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Sir Garfield Sobers, need I say anymore!
well, another ten names would help...
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Here's mine,
1.Gordon Greenidge
2.Sunil Gavaskar
3.Sachin Tendulkar
4.Barry Richards
5.Viv Richards
6.Jacques Kallis
7.Adam Gilchrist
8.Malcolm Marshall
9.Shane Warne
10.Dennis Lillee
11.Glenn McGrath
12.Brian Lara
13.Murali
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This is really, really tricky because you have to consider how you want to view the "great" batsmen of the last fifteen years with their possibly inflated averages against guys who gutted it out against the amazing bowling attacks of the 70s and 90s. You also have to consider how you want to balance your side because there are so many all rounders who you could consider; Sobers is an obvious one - a lock as a batsman but a perfectly serviceable front line bowler to boot but it gets more difficult when you look at someone like Imran who is not one of the six best batsmen or four best bowlers, but as a package is something special. Then you have the issues of the great South African side of the 70s that barely played test cricket - would Pollock, Proctor, Rice and Richards be your choices without knowing how they eventually did?
Oddly, there are a lot of candidates for some places (fast bowlers, numbers four, five, six) but relatively few top order candidates...
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1. Gavaskar
2. Greenidge
3. Greg Chappell
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Zaheer Abbas
6. Keith Miller
7. Garfield Sobers
8. Imran Khan*
9. Alan Knott
10. Shane Warne
11. DK Lillee
How did I forget IVA and Malcolm Marshall!
Zaheer would have to go. And maybe Imran. Warne to captain.
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Okay, so I've got to the stage where I have a fifteen man squad I'm happy with:
Batsmen: Gordon Greenidge, Geoffry Boycott, Graeme Pollock, Viv Richards, Gary Sobers, Greg Chappell, Steve Waugh
Wicketkeeper: Adam Gilchrist
All Rounder: Imran Khan
Spinners: Shane Warne, Bishden Bedi
Pace Bowlers: Malcolm Marshall, Michael Holding, Freddie Trueman, Wasim Akram
The last one was much the hardest - I felt bad leaving Alan Donald, Dennis Lillee, Andy Roberts, Richard Hadlee and Curtley Ambrose out...
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As a final XI, I think I'd go for:
Greenidge
Boycott
Pollock
Richards
Sobers
Khan
Gilchrist
Warne
Marshall
Trueman
Holding
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Boycott?? he isn't even the best opener to play for
England Yorkshire, let alone the world...
Further again Bradman played after the war, so can be picked...
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Boycott?? he isn't even the best opener to play for England, let alone the world...
Further again Bradman played after the war, so can be picked...
I discounted him on the basis that he played the vast majority of his cricket before the war (only three series, one of them the Victory Tests, afterward - for the same reason I didn't go for Len Hutton, who would otherwise open the batting.
As for Sir Geoffry, a bit of a private joke there I'm afraid!
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Here's mine,
1.Gordon Greenidge
2.Sunil Gavaskar
3.Sachin Tendulkar
4.Barry Richards
5.Viv Richards
6.Jacques Kallis
7.Adam Gilchrist
8.Malcolm Marshall
9.Shane Warne
10.Dennis Lillee
11.Glenn McGrath
12.Brian Lara
13.Murali
Barry Richards didn't score 100s before lunch batting at 4 ;)
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Barry Richards didn't score 100s before lunch batting at 4 ;)
the other openers just nicked the two spots with 53 test match centuries between them
:D
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I'd pick Colin Milburn as an opener
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Sunil Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Jacques Kallis
Sir Vivian Richards
Graeme Pollock
Steve Waugh (c)
Sir Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Sir Ian Botham
Shane Warne
Michael Holding
Sub fielder - Gary Pratt
There is my team, different to others but I think the attack has everything and my tail starts at 11. In Asian spin-friendly conditions Botham or Sobers would make way for a 2nd spinner, stats suggest Murali but i'm unsure who I would pick
Also - a night out with Warne, Sobers and Botham after (or during) a match would be as much an experience as watching them play
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Some great names banded about, I'm going for,
Greenidge,
Gavasker,
Barry Richards,
Sir Viv Richards,
Tendulker,
Sir Ian Botham (c)
Alan Knott,
Lillee,
Warne,
Underwood,
Jon Snow
Okay Bothams stint as captain wasn't the greatest but I reckon he could get the best out of what I've put around him and my hero Alan Knott simply because he is Alan Knott
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Could one of you explain how you can seriously pick Botham? Maybe for an England side, but a World XI?
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Could one of you explain how you can seriously pick Botham? Maybe for an England side, but a World XI?
Swing bowling all-rounder who can field at slip, English bias perhaps but there you go.
If you want to pick through each others teams shall I name you 30 openers that I would pick before Boycott? :D
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Swing bowling all-rounder who can field at slip, English bias perhaps but there you go.
If you want to pick through each others teams shall I name you 30 openers that I would pick before Boycott? :D
I doubt you could get to 30 - if I were being serious I'd only be certain of three (Barry Richards, Sunil Gavaskar, Desmond Haynes)...
And none of the candidates are so clearly ahead of him as Hadlee, Imran, Keith Miller, Alan Davidson and MAlcolm Marshall are ahead of Beefy!
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In defense of Sir Geoffrey, who seems to have got a few backs up. This is his Test record:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9187.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround;view=series
8000 runs at better than 47 in a time spanning uncovered pitches and some of teh greatest bowling attacks in the history of the game is a superb effort, especially when you bear in mind that there was no Zimbabwe or Bangladesh for him to pad his average out against (nor a 90s England side for that matter!) Now, obviously another main candidate is Barry Richards, and it is difficult to compare stats because of South Africa's exclusion from the international game. Of the others, Gavaskar avaergaed nearly four runs better, but as you can see played mainly of featherbed Indian pitches:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9187.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround;view=series
Who else? Because if you look for comparable statistics from a post war opener, there are not many - Smith, Cook, Hayden and Sehwag to be precise. All of whom playedf on Chief Executive pitches against lesser bowling and padded their averages to their proverbial hearts content...
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I doubt you could get to 30 - if I were being serious I'd only be certain of three (Barry Richards, Sunil Gavaskar, Desmond Haynes)...
I would say that Botham would be in more peoples World/England elevens than Boycott (outside of Yorkshire). End of debate really
Imagine 'Boycotts Ashes' - Geoffrey winning the toss and batting for 4 days for 250* from 2000 balls, running out all of his team-mates except the number 11, which was his mother (she made 50 with a stick of Rhubarb)
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No Dravid or Kallis anywhere? although I see there are a lot of big names already there while others are missing....
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No Dravid or Kallis anywhere? although I see there are a lot of big names already there while others are missing....
I had Kallis Tush! And it was out of him and Dravid for my number 3 spot
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Sunil Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Jacques Kallis
Sir Vivian Richards
Graeme Pollock
Steve Waugh (c)
Sir Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Sir Ian Botham
Shane Warne
Michael Holding
Sub fielder - Gary Pratt
There is my team, different to others but I think the attack has everything and my tail starts at 11. In Asian spin-friendly conditions Botham or Sobers would make way for a 2nd spinner, stats suggest Murali but i'm unsure who I would pick
Also - a night out with Warne, Sobers and Botham after (or during) a match would be as much an experience as watching them play
Sobers was supposedly a very very competant spinner.
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I would say that Botham would be in more peoples World/England elevens than Boycott (outside of Yorkshire). End of debate really
I don't think that many - any - informaed commentators have ever picked him for a world XI. Boycott is undoubtedly a controversial choice, and as I said earlier onemade with tounge approaching cheek, but he has a beter case to be there than does his fellow Knight of the Realm...
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Sobers was supposedly a very very competant spinner.
better than just competant, he was a genuine front line option and bowled both conventional SLA and chinamen!
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Sobers was supposedly a very very competant spinner.
Yep both of left arm orthodox and chinamen
Would want another genuine spinner in there though I think, 4 seam up options is too many for those conditions
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Sobers could bowl at a very lively pace too!
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Could one of you explain how you can seriously pick Botham? Maybe for an England side, but a World XI?
I think, like Gilchrist, Botham was one of those players who could take a game away from the opposition.
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I think, like Gilchrist, Botham was one of those players who could take a game away from the opposition.
he could, but did he really do it often enough to be worthy of inclusion in an all time world XI? After all, his record against the best side of his day - the West Indies - was woeful and as either a genuine all rounder or a third seamer there are so many more compelling candidates.
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as either a genuine all rounder or a third seamer there are so many more compelling candidates.
His stats sit comfortably alongside any of them. Imran has slightly better figures but I've left him out to concentrate on his political career
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His stats sit comfortably alongside any of them. Imran has slightly better figures but I've left him out to concentrate on his political career
do they really? Okay, I'm not even going to dignify the idea of Botham as a front line seamer because its patently ridiculous. If he gets in, its as a bowler who could bat six/seven, and I'll only therefore compare him like for like.
Botham's test stats were 5200 runs at 33 and 384 wickets at 28
Sobers managed 8000 at 57 and took 235 at 34
Imran 3800 at 38 and 362 at 22
Kallis 13000 at 57 and 282 at 32 (with power to add)
Miller 3000 at 37 and 170 at 23
I could go on but you get the point, surely? Even if we select Sobers purely as a batsman and sixth bowler, there are others comfortably ahead of Sir Beefy...
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do they really? Okay, I'm not even going to dignify the idea of Botham as a front line seamer because its patently ridiculous. If he gets in, its as a bowler who could bat six/seven, and I'll only therefore compare him like for like.
Botham's test stats were 5200 runs at 33 and 384 wickets at 28
Sobers managed 8000 at 57 and took 235 at 34
Imran 3800 at 38 and 362 at 22
Kallis 13000 at 57 and 282 at 32 (with power to add)
Miller 3000 at 37 and 170 at 23
I could go on but you get the point, surely? Even if we select Sobers purely as a batsman and sixth bowler, there are others comfortably ahead of Sir Beefy...
I hate to nullify your research but I've already selected Sobers and Kallis. And this is a post-war team so I've put Miller in the same bracket as Bradman - both are ineligible. Imran I've already covered
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Miller didn't debut until after the war did he?
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Miller didn't debut until after the war did he?
Just, 1946
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I hate to nullify your research but I've already selected Sobers and Kallis. And this is a post-war team so I've put Miller in the same bracket as Bradman - both are ineligible. Imran I've already covered
Oh, I'm aware that you'd gone down the route of picking Botham at nine, I was just trying to give you an out on that. You barely need another seamer in that side (so either pick a batsman or a bowler who is better than the others you've got) and in any event it is incredibly rare to influence a match with the bat from nine!
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in any event it is incredibly rare to influence a match with the bat from nine!
I think this team would only be batting once in the majority of its Test matches so he would have a few chances to pile on quick runs
Miller didn't debut until after the war did he?
Perhaps Miller would have a good case then, I thought he played either side of the war
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Perhaps Miller would have a good case then, I thought he played either side of the war
Nah, he was just breaking into state cricket before the war
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my best eleven
Adam Gilchrist
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards (c)
Ricky Ponting
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Garry Sobers
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath
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My post war XI
1. Gordon Grenidge
2. Barry Richards
3. Sir Viv Richards
4. Brian Lara
5. Steve Waugh (c)
6. Sir Garfield Sobers
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Wasim Akram
9. Shane Warne
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Joel Garner
Subs
12.Jacques Kallis
13.Malcolm Marshall
14.Inzamam-ul-Haq
15.Muttiah Muralitharan
Would love to see Sir Viv and Inzamam batting together and see what sir Viv's reaction would be when big inzi ran him out.
inzi scored close to 11739 runs in one day matches, he probably could have scored an extra 1000 runs had he not been run out 40 times.
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Here you go, for what its worth...
1. Greenidge
2. Barry Richards
3. Lara
4. Viv Richards
5. Tendulkar
6. Sobers
7. Gilchrist
8. Wasim Akram
9. Warne
10. Marshall
11. Lillee
12th. Kallis
Gone for the openers as we know they batted well together - which you can't level at most other composite XI's selected from different countries.
I'm sure there's no explanation needed for the middle order.
Sobers over Kallis because he could bowl spin and medium pace
Gilchrist, Warne, Marshall and Lillee no great surprises - Akram over McGrath for something different - left arm and a much better bat (not that he'd be needed!).
Close calls for me; Sangakkara over Gilchrist - decided against as he batting average dropped significantly as a keeper and Ponting at his absolute best - just couldn't get him in over Lara or SRT...
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my best eleven
Adam Gilchrist
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards (c)
Ricky Ponting
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Garry Sobers
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath
Where are your openers?
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think he's hoping for a one day game....
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Where are your openers?
He wont' need openers with that line up.
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Sachin would spit the dummy 'cos he's not batting at 4...
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Sachin would spit the dummy 'cos he's not batting at 4...
he can spit as much as he wants but there are better batsmen ahead of him (although in this case he's opening :) ). tbh, i wouldnt even have him in my 11 but thats personal choice.
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he can spit as much as he wants but there are better batsmen ahead of him (although in this case he's opening :) ). tbh, i wouldnt even have him in my 11 but thats personal choice.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's overrated...
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Glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's overrated...
Oh I think he's up there with the top batsmen in cricket, just not sure he's in the top 6 batsmen.
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agree and agree - I put him in my XI mostly cos I felt I had too!
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Course you'd need openers! thats a bit like saying we'll gamble on starting our innings at 150-0 or 12-2.
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1 - Boycott
2 - Richards
3 - Ponting
4 - Sir Viv
5 - Lara
6 - Sobers
7 - De Villiars
8 - Freddie Flintoff (my idol sorry)
9 - Warne
10 - Marshall
11 - Trueman
My only 'hard' choice for me was as Wicket Keeper. I'm not overly knowledgable of past keepers so I'm afraid I was limited to only really knowing about Healey, Stewart, G.Jones, Prior, ABdV and Gilly. I choose AB over gilly because I think AB is/will be a far better batsmen than Gilly and he's awesome. Freddie is in their purely because he's the reason I even started liking Cricket so anyone that is the sole reason for even looking at the game deserves to get in your team.
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First three bat all day, wear everyone down.. then unleash Sir Viv, Lara, Sobers, AB and Freddie on them :)
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Oh I think he's up there with the top batsmen in cricket, just not sure he's in the top 6 batsmen.
Who's in your top six if the batsman who holds the records for most runs and hundreds in Tests and ODIs, and most international runs. First man to score a Double hundred in ODI's averages 54 in nearly 200 test matches, and 44 in 463 Odi matches. Made his first test hundred at 17 years old and has carried the weight of a billion people for years with very little complaining.
Overrated!!!! Seriously!!!!
What else would he need to do to be rated?
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So if you don't need openers, why have you picked them lol? Surely there are betrter batsmen!
Mine:
Gavaskar
Richards
Kallis
Tendulkar
S Waugh (c)
Sobers
IVA
Gilchrist
Warne
Akram
Walsh
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I'd have to go
1 B Richards
2 G Greenidge
3 J Kallis
4 B Lara
5 V Richards
6 G Sobers
7 A Gilchrist
8 S Warne
9 W Akram
10 M Muralitharan
11 M Holding
Tough between Dravid and Kallis, but I went for big Jacques as he can bowl. Bowling wise, that's every base covered for any pitch. Right/Left arm pace/swing/spin all included. Plus an exciting batting line up!
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Who's in your top six if the batsman who holds the records for most runs and hundreds in Tests and ODIs, and most international runs. First man to score a Double hundred in ODI's averages 54 in nearly 200 test matches, and 44 in 463 Odi matches. Made his first test hundred at 17 years old and has carried the weight of a billion people for years with very little complaining.
Overrated!!!! Seriously!!!!
What else would he need to do to be rated?
Did I at any point say he wasn't up there? No
I do however think that as we all talk about Indian wickets being easy to score bigger runs on, some very weak teams to score runs against etc that maybe (and I have no interest in looking up his record against Bang etc) some of these runs when coupled with the demise of bowling over teh last 10 to 15 years and the advent of helmets, bats etc has maybe inflated his stats a little. I'd venture he's still up there but for me he's not 'the greatest batsmen ever as some proclaim him to be'. He's a modern great of that there is no doubt, however when (for me) put up against Richards, Ponting (in his prime), Sir Viv, Lara, Sobers, Kallis (given he bowls too which has meant he's had more injuries and as we know being an all rounder is harder on the mind/body so probably costs him a few runs over the years), I'd say he's just behind.
If we did a 'last 15/20 years select xi' he'd easily slot in at number 4 without a doubt. Plus, it's all personal opinion remember as there is no right or wrong answer :)
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So if you don't need openers, why have you picked them lol? Surely there are betrter batsmen!
Mine:
Gavaskar
Richards
Kallis
Tendulkar
S Waugh (c)
Sobers
IVA
Gilchrist
Warne
Akram
Walsh
I picked them as I like the idea in Test cricket of Boycott batting all week long, holding an end up etc. Richards I've read about and my dad raved about so he's up there with the best skill wise.. Just happens that as he's in my top 6 batsmen and opened he's the opener. Otherwise i'd have probably just stuck Ponting opening as anyone really in the top 4 or 5 should be able to open.
I'd expect if you asked KP to open in test cricket he wouldn't suddenly be crap. I suspect they'd be little to no difference. Probably the same for trott, kallis, Amla etc etc
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I'd disagree, I'd say there is a huge difference between having a dasher at the top and some-one with a tight technique! But as you've said its a personal choice, and I personally don't like the balance!
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http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting)
It's worth looking at his stats tho, I think they are relevant....
he was pretty good in most conditions outside of India also, played against the best bowlers also. (McGrath, Warne, Donald, Pollock, Ambrose, Walsh, Murali)
As you said pro that's your choice.
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mine would be
1. Gavaskar
2. Greenidge
3. Lara
4. Richards
5. Kallis
6. Sobers
7.Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Akram
10. Marshall
11. Muralitharan
it's always tough choice would have loved to have squeezed in Steve Waugh , also the game changing ability of Sir Ian and also leaving out the likes of Barry Richards, Allan Donald, Dravid, Tendulkar, Holding and McGrath. These can all wait in the wings in my 2's incase of injury or loss of form.
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[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting[/url])
It's worth looking at his stats tho, I think they are relevant....
he was pretty good in most conditions outside of India also, played against the best bowlers also. (McGrath, Warne, Donald, Pollock, Ambrose, Walsh, Murali)
As you said pro that's your choice.
Would be difficult to argue that 16 tests against Bangladesh and Zim in a career spanning 200, is going to pad out the average too much! Also interesting that his average in England is better than in India, and hw average in Aus is only .17 below. Class act, although I see why you wouldn't want to pick him.... you can only score against what is put in front of you.
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KP would be an awful opener. You need to be able to leave well and have patience in Test cricket to open the batting. Two characteristics he doesn't have
A ridiculous claim
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I'd disagree
This is what I enjoy about forums and also talking to other people.
@The_Bird - The guy is a legend, I'd never say otherwise. I just don't think he's one of the 6 best batsmen since making a debut after 1945. He is class though, again there is no doubt on that.
ps - I love the depth of those stats!! This is what play cricket should be able to produce :)
again @Alba - How do you know KP can't leave. He has played the odd innings where he's batted in a 'opener' type mannor. Yes it's not his style etc BUT I'm sure as a world class talent he could if needed/asked/if he wanted too open the batting.
I have no idea what he'd get if he opened in test cricket for a few years (so given enough time to adjust to opening), I just think that he (although I only used him as a name) could do a job if required. (again, he'd hae to want too as we know with any player, if their heart isn't in it then they'll not do well). Sloggerwag did it and he's not exactly a good leaver, and in my opinion (as that's all it is, an opinion) KP has more talent than Shewag.
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Sehwag wasnt particularly successful outside of Asia so I don't think that's a good comparison
Trott yes quite possibly could do the job but KP? Not in a million years would England ask him to open in a Test match
In my opinion it's a specialist job. Limited overs cricket is slightly different
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Sehwag wasnt particularly successful outside of Asia so I don't think that's a good comparison
Trott yes quite possibly could do the job but KP? Not in a million years would England ask him to open in a Test match
In my opinion it's a specialist job. Limited overs cricket is slightly different
That's why I respect that you wouldn't have KP opening in this one particular instance (neither would I by the way BUT that doesn't mean I don't think he could do it if he really wanted to). It's an unanswerable question though as he'll never get a run as an opener because it's not where he wants to bat.
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Where are your openers?
lara, gilchrist and tendulkar have opened in the past. But these are the best players
in my opinion even though i have a few too many batsman with a high strike rate.
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In ODI's yes, but I can't remember them being too successful in tests
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Greenidge
Jayasuriya
Lara
Tendulkar
Sir richards
Gilchrist
Imran khan*
S Warne
Wasim akram
M Marshall
G Mcgrath
12. R Ponting
13. Murali
14. D lillee
15. A Kumble
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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You got a pretty good team, but surely Kallis fits in somewhere?
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when i posted it, even i was thinking about the same :-p
then i think i ll show the gates to lillee.....and let kallis in...:-p
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Greenidge
Gavaskar
Lara
Sachin
Viv Richards
Gilchrist
Gary Sobers
Shane Warne
Wasim Akram
Malcom Marshal
Dennis Lille
Some team this ;)
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1. Gavaskar
2. Hayden
3. Tendulkar
4. Dravid
5. Lara
6. V. Richards
7. Gilchrist
8. Sobers
9. Warne
10.Lillee
11. McGrath
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1. Gavaskar
2. Jayasuriya
3. Brian Lara
4. Tendulkar
5. Sir viv
6. Sobers
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Akram
10. Glenn McGrath
11. Lillee
With Glenn maxwell on the side line as a super sub ;) :-[
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Really difficult this one.
I've got Greenidge, Sir Viv, Shane Warne and probably Malcolm Marshall in there, but after that there are too many to choose from.
1. Greenidge
2. Barry Richards
3. Lara
4. Sir Viv
5. Tendulkar
6. Sobers
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Hadlee
10. Walsh
11. Lillee
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This is really difficult but I will have a go!
Langer
Gavaskar
Tendulkar
Lara
Richards
Gilchrist (wk)
Sobers
Warne (capt)
Marshall
Wasim
McGrath
Feel this side covers all bases. 5 bowlers, all different in style. Batsmen that can adapt to any situation.
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Langer??? I think you are being harsh on many legends....
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sorry to bring up an old topic
firstly with regards to Tendulkar being 'overrated'. At his peak he averaged 60 in Test cricket. Tendulkar's batting skill easily surpasses Lara, Ponting, Kallis. Lara was flashy but was a peaks and droughts batsman.
Tendulkar's peak was around 1998-2002. His average was over 60 in that period. Until his recent decline Tendulkar averaged more in Australia, England and South Africa than he did in home matches against these sides. So he's either pretty great, or the legendary Australian side was 'overrated'.
Now on to my side:
1. S. Gavaskar(the most complete opener in Test history)
2. B. Richards(Gavaskar's only rival)
3. I.V.A Richards(epic player)
4. S. Tendulkar(greatest modern batsman by a country mile).
5. B. Lara(Prince of Trinidad)
6. J. Kallis(second best all rounder ever)
7. G. Sobers(greatest cricketer of all time)
8. M. Boucher(fantastic keeper)
9. W. Akram(the greatest left armer to ever play the game)
10. G. McGrath(most successful seam bowler in Test history
11. M. Muralidaran(greatest spinner of all time)
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Nice selection although I think I disagree with Boucher as keeper. Difficult choice between Warne and Muralidaran....
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In my terms warne is a better spinnner who has proved his worth all round the world...he turned the ball everywhere....muralitharan was more of sub continent tiger....but stilll a legend...
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I have used the ICC ranking of best ever to choose my post war team.
It should be mentioned that on the rankings 900 points is usually the measure of greatness - Tendulkar never got to 900 points. His highest being 898 against Zimbabwe.
Andy Flower is my keeper by the way - look at the stats - no one else is close to him.
Hutton
May (or Barry Richards, I haven't decided)
Ponting
Richards
Sobers
Kallis
Flower
Imran Khan
McGrath
Lock
Ambrose
http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/ (http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/)
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May was not really an opener....
and who is Iran Khan? :)
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May was not really an opener....
and who is Iran Khan? :)
sorry amended typo...
but if I don't pick May, i have to pick Hayden using my rankings calculations and why would I want to do that??!!
oooh but I could pick Barry Richards...
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I have used the ICC ranking of best ever to choose my post war team.
It should be mentioned that on the rankings 900 points is usually the measure of greatness - Tendulkar never got to 900 points. His highest being 898 against Zimbabwe.
Andy Flower is my keeper by the way - look at the stats - no one else is close to him.
Hutton
May
Ponting
Richards
Sobers
Kallis
Flower
Imran Khan
McGrath
Lock
Ambrose
[url]http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/[/url] ([url]http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/alltime/test/[/url])
I can't help but agree with this. I'm a huge Flower advocate, streets ahead of Gilchrist in my opinion. Gilly came in when Aus were more often than not shedloads-5, Andy Flower batted at 5 in a side that often found itself 50-3 or something silly like that. He was the one genuinely world class player in his side, and faced strong bowling attacks (as opposed to being able to face his own bowling line-up, he'd have butchered it!), and a sharp keeper to boot, and all the pressure fell on him. Different class. Maybe not the best wicketkeeper alone, but then again neither is Gilly (for the record, it is probably Godfrey Evans)...
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Here is my XI
1. Barry Richards
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Garfield Sobers
7. Andy Flower
8. Shane Warne
9. Malcolm Marshall
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Muttiah Muralitharan
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Nice selection although I think I disagree with Boucher as keeper. Difficult choice between Warne and Muralidaran....
I chose Boucher as he's not wasted with the bat 8.
Playing Gilchrist there would be worthless, as a peak Gilchrist in top 6 material.
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Andy Flower was a average keeper. Little better than a part timer.
As for his batting, he was great on slow pitches like Zimbabwe and India. But it's common knowledge that he was very poor when playing on fast pitches.
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Andy Flower was a average keeper. Little better than a part timer.
As for his batting, he was great on slow pitches like Zimbabwe and India. But it's common knowledge that he was very poor when playing on fast pitches.
Not something that I would consider "common knowledge" in fact I have never heard it before.
His stats are here
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55427.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55427.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting)
It is difficult that he didn't play a test in Aus and only one in SA - however, given the team he was in, I believe his records stand for themselves.
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Not something that I would consider "common knowledge" in fact I have never heard it before.
His stats are here
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55427.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55427.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting[/url])
It is difficult that he didn't play a test in Aus and only one in SA - however, given the team he was in, I believe his records stand for themselves.
Couldn't agree more. He can only play against the teams he's put up against. Outstanding performer!
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Not something that I would consider "common knowledge" in fact I have never heard it before.
His stats are here
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55427.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/55427.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting[/url])
It is difficult that he didn't play a test in Aus and only one in SA - however, given the team he was in, I believe his records stand for themselves.
Well I'm from Africa and know about Flower's short comings.
He also played a full season for South Australia, averaged in the 20s. They pummelling him with short pitched bowling.