Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Hammer Cricket on December 19, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
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Forgive me mate, I was looking at the couple behind the platinum and assumed they were all the same price! Sorry, the one at the front looks nice, but just expensive considering when you look around the gems you find posted on here for a lot less. Don't want to turn this into a Hammer knocking thread, just thought I would comment Paul
hey guys. i see a bit of a trend here..there have been a few people saying how expensive hammer bats are...i think thats a bit of a generalization about the brand as a whole..yes the platinums are expensive...but by no means far above and beyond any other brand...i thought i would build up a bit of a list to make my point so as to not sound like im pulling any information out my behind..i just wanted to put things in perspective for people..
platinum…379 right?
cenkos..( whilst it includes a boat load of cool stuff, i know )….1000
GN legend…499
F40…475
GM player edition..474
GN legend in aus…456
slazenger masterclass…….427
puma platinum white in aus….409
GN e41 1200sr ……409
rogue players in aus….406
kookaburra players…..379
Hammer platinum ....379
puma players…369
spartan MC ……368
mongoose super premium…..350
slazenger V12…….317
bradbury players…..289
salix pod players……289
all prices are pounds by the way
so yes. my platinum bat is up there but as you can see by no means more expensive than anyone else..this is the best bat i could bring to market and thats the reason for the price..
for those of you who dont know the prices of my other bats..please check itsjustcricket.co.uk....not all my bats are 379 pounds...and am working on a G2, G3 and G4 offerings for next year as well..so stay tuned...hopefully all will be made in england as well..
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Perhaps the admin could stick the above post in a new thread, as I am sure it will generate a lot of conversation?
Welcome to the forum mate, brace yourself ;)
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done, the homer drool thread is for drooling at willow.
jason, this is for you...
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Hello Mr Hammer,
I like the write up about the above bats. Which I personally consider them all to be very expensive for what they are. I do not doubt that your bats will be nice sticks, But based on your pricing range for the Platinum it would be above my budget.
I see the likes of SAF, H4L, Redback and other smaller brands on here to offer good bats for half the price of yours. I wish you well in the UK market though.
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Can always count on you Buzz to be on the ball
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We all buy bats for different prices
I have had free ones and I have had very expensive ones,
As somebody once said it a buyers market
Good luck mr hammer I like your reviews and I see passion in what your doing
I have 2 kids as well and I like your point and it is valid
Good luck matey I like the shape you created looks very nice
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Hello Mr Hammer,
I like the write up about the above bats. Which I personally consider them all to be very expensive for what they are. I do not doubt that your bats will be nice sticks, But based on your pricing range for the Platinum it would be above my budget.
I see the likes of SAF, H4L, Redback and other smaller brands on here to offer good bats for half the price of yours. I wish you well in the UK market though.
thats ok mr Roco and thanks for your input...i know my bats are all expensive across the range..that is at 260, 319 and 379...and yes you can get similar bats at cheaper prices but ive gone for a no compromise strategy...the best of the best of everything...yes i could of got cheaper stickers made in india , or bats made in pakistan...or cheaper grips, or cheaper bat covers....but according to my sales this year, apparently people ( like me ) are willing to pay a premium for a product they know to be worth the money..and thats the market im going for...im not trying to be the cheapest bat on the market or sell a bat to every person on the planet. look at companies like apple as an example. maybe when i bring out some lower grade / cheaper bats you may just treat yourself and buy one...if not thats ok...and im ok with that...
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Jason, welcome to the forum!
Conor
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Hello Mr Hammer,
I like the write up about the above bats. Which I personally consider them all to be very expensive for what they are. I do not doubt that your bats will be nice sticks, But based on your pricing range for the Platinum it would be above my budget.
I see the likes of SAF, H4L, Redback and other smaller brands on here to offer good bats for half the price of yours. I wish you well in the UK market though.
also i would love to comment and say mean things about those other brands and speculate about things...but im turning over a new leaf...i know nothing about those brands and how they manufacture bats..so if they can bring products to market cheaper than me..thats ok and well done to them.
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Welcome to the forum Mr Mellet, hope you enjoy your stay here!
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thanks
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Welcome to the forum Jason, having seen your bats at Paul's last week I was really impressed with them, some really good looking sticks there.
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I have read what Paul posted ... you wrote like a boss SUPER LIKE
welcome to the forum Mr. Hammer :)
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thats ok mr Roco and thanks for your input...i know my bats are all expensive across the range..that is at 260, 319 and 379...and yes you can get similar bats at cheaper prices but ive gone for a no compromise strategy...the best of the best of everything...yes i could of got cheaper stickers made in india , or bats made in pakistan...or cheaper grips, or cheaper bat covers....but according to my sales this year, apparently people ( like me ) are willing to pay a premium for a product they know to be worth the money..and thats the market im going for...im not trying to be the cheapest bat on the market or sell a bat to every person on the planet. look at companies like apple as an example. maybe when i bring out some lower grade / cheaper bats you may just treat yourself and buy one...if not thats ok...and im ok with that...
I am trying not to bite on your condensending remark about buying a lower grade bat. the finances of purchasing one of your sticks is not an issue. I just think your prices are high for a brand that is unknown compared to GN, Kook, GM etc etc.
Like I said I wish you luck in getting some good sales via Paul at IJC
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thats ok mr Roco and thanks for your input...i know my bats are all expensive across the range..that is at 260, 319 and 379...and yes you can get similar bats at cheaper prices but ive gone for a no compromise strategy...the best of the best of everything...yes i could of got cheaper stickers made in india , or bats made in pakistan...or cheaper grips, or cheaper bat covers....but according to my sales this year, apparently people ( like me ) are willing to pay a premium for a product they know to be worth the money..and thats the market im going for...im not trying to be the cheapest bat on the market or sell a bat to every person on the planet. look at companies like apple as an example. maybe when i bring out some lower grade / cheaper bats you may just treat yourself and buy one...if not thats ok...and im ok with that...
Those companies that Roco Da Pixie mentioned don't make their bats in Asia either though..... :D Just in case you were suggesting otherwise! :D Which I'm sure you weren't! ;)
I honestly think you'll struggle with the Platinum at £379 whilst you're still establishing yourself. Away from here your average cricketer is a conservative (with a little 'c') bloke and it's going to be hard to get them to part with that kind of money when they can have the pick of most other established brands bats on the shelves of their local store. The lower grade bats may well prove to be a better way to start things off...in the UK at least. I like the look of them though....Marcus has done a great job on the branding.
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I am with Roco on that one. Yes Apple can charge those prices, but they have been going since the 80's and are well established in the market - with that comes a loyal fanbase that will buy into the company/products/ethos etc.
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The thing I think will hold back a lot of forum members from buying a hammer bat is that it is an unknown quantity
You do not disclose who makes your bats and for a customer that is shelling out £300+ this might be a big turn off, certainly is for me
Youve already said your primary market is elsewhere, where I'm sure this won't be as big an issue. Good luck to you
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Instinct came in at the top end of the pricing spectrum, look where they are now
Instinct's woes were not caused by their pricing...
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I just remembered reading something else Tim actually mate...I shall amend my post.
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Jason serves us North Americans well. If I were looking for a high end bat, I would consider his brand based on my past dealings with him.
Would like to hear Cover_Drive weigh in here as he has dealt with Jason as well in the past.
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Hi Jason and i hope you enjoy your stay on the forum. I think its great that youve joined the forum as rumours have mingled with facts and apart from paul of course very few people know the real deal of hammer bats. not that im demanding you to do it of course but i think that you would be a lot more accessable to the forum at least if you became a forum sponsor that might up your rep a bit ;) but other than that good luck and i hope you success in the near future :D
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If remember right Instinct were questioned as pricing at top end until bats were in use and bats reviewed.
I personally didn't like the post yesterday bit too aggressive.
Get people to challenge you yes.
Sorry I have missed what started this off which might be why you were so aggressive.
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I was at IJC when the hammer bats arrived, bit of mixed bag and a lot around 2'11 from what I remember. That Platinum really stood out though, nice bat. Decals are good also.
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I am trying not to bite on your condensending remark about buying a lower grade bat. the finances of purchasing one of your sticks is not an issue. I just think your prices are high for a brand that is unknown compared to GN, Kook, GM etc etc.
Like I said I wish you luck in getting some good sales via Paul at IJC
no worries...wasnt trying to be disrespectful...i get my bats are not for everybody...apologies if any toes were stood on..
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If remember right Instinct were questioned as pricing at top end until bats were in use and bats reviewed.
That's very true. I had one of the first five he sent out and to be fair it is still my go to bat above all others (although with the way the Hades is playing in, that may change).
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please remember first and foremost that there is life outside of forums...i know some may think i will struggle to sell bats at such a high price...i have done a quick calculation in my website and ive sold 27 bats this year under the hammer name at the 379 pound price point....havent discounted a single one of them...
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Looking back to the nub of the point of this thread I find it strange to compare what is a small brand to those of some reputation and many years of established status.
It would be rude to ask to see Hammer's business plan and as such gain an insight as to their pricing, but when I see prices of £368.21 and £613.09 I wince.
For less than £200 I can get a bespoke bat, made to measure, a cup of tea, and lots of love and respect from Warsop Stebbing. How can a small
If the intention is to compare on price then the small brand loses each time to those established behemoths. How can a small brand compete with the brand values and strength of GN, Slazenger et all.
As an entrepreneur, I know it is vital to price your product or service correctly.
If my favorite bat maker, Warsop all of a sudden started charging my GN money I would ask why.
For a small brand to charge the same as the market leaders they need to give significantly more value to the consumer to justify the price.
GN and the big firms have significant overhead which does not compare with the smaller brands. Warsop are based on a farm!
Sorry, but Hammer bats could be the monkeys hanging things, but as a small brand they should seriously reconsider their price point.
Just a thought.
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such things as the bespoke bat shapes, the marketing cost of decal design etc factor into the end cost of the product....as a business these would look to be recouped.
As Jason says if he's sold 27 bats already at £379 he's clearly doing something right as we don't sell that in a season at £279.99 :(
If people think the price is too expensive then don't buy one, bit like our lids we aren't forcing people to spend £250 on a helmet where there are options out there for less....but if they want to I'm not going to turn them away :D
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such things as the bespoke bat shapes, the marketing cost of decal design etc factor into the end cost of the product....as a business these would look to be recouped.
As Jason says if he's sold 27 bats already at £379 he's clearly doing something right as we don't sell that in a season at £279.99 :(
If people think the price is too expensive then don't buy one, bit like our lids we aren't forcing people to spend £250 on a helmet where there are options out there for less....but if they want to I'm not going to turn them away :D
well said mate....you have some pricey Lids..and you are no GM or GN....but if you want something special and unique some people will pay the premium..
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As long as they sell keep at it! Money is money. I cant afford them though!
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Once again, it is important to bear in mind the market that Hammer is targetted at. It is aimed at the North American market where there are no resident brands or batmakers. Equally, I am sure that Jason has done his research and knows what he needs to do to target the cricket equipment buying public in the US. Comparing what he is doing to the UK market isn't really a good comparison, and price arbitrage between the US and the UK isn't a good idea, so prices will remain constant across both.
Being stocked in IJC will help to open up the UK market, especially in the London area, and will save UK punters wishing to purchase Hammer, the shipping costs, which can only be a good thing for those who do.
While the price of the bats is not to my liking, I similarly wouldn't buy a Willostix top end bat, Screaming Cat or Barringtons AJK range, most of which are around the same price or more expensive currently, as I don't want to spend that much on a cricket bat... I'd almost guarantee that most sales of Hammer bats won't go to Forum members either.
While we forum members might like to think of ourselves as the connossieurs of the cricket world, we have a bad habit of being snobs, and the general public, who don't reside on forums like shiny stickers and pretty bats. Because of this, they don't ask every brand who makes their bats, because, they just don't care.
With this in mind, I'd respectfully ask all CBF members to remember that, when we try and give advice to a brand, we don't necessarily know what we are talking about, especially when that brand has made a very clear decision about its marketing and marketplace...
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just to confirm that I wasn't giving advice, but commenting as an informed consumer and someone who has experience of the trails of life as an SME.
Maybe I should have added a footnote to that effect. Sorry for any confusion.
Once again, it is important to bear in mind the market that Hammer is targetted at. It is aimed at the North American market where there are no resident brands or batmakers. Equally, I am sure that Jason has done his research and knows what he needs to do to target the cricket equipment buying public in the US. Comparing what he is doing to the UK market isn't really a good comparison, and price arbitrage between the US and the UK isn't a good idea, so prices will remain constant across both.
Being stocked in IJC will help to open up the UK market, especially in the London area, and will save UK punters wishing to purchase Hammer, the shipping costs, which can only be a good thing for those who do.
While the price of the bats is not to my liking, I similarly wouldn't buy a Willostix top end bat, Screaming Cat or Barringtons AJK range, most of which are around the same price or more expensive currently, as I don't want to spend that much on a cricket bat... I'd almost guarantee that most sales of Hammer bats won't go to Forum members either.
While we forum members might like to think of ourselves as the connossieurs of the cricket world, we have a bad habit of being snobs, and the general public, who don't reside on forums like shiny stickers and pretty bats. Because of this, they don't ask every brand who makes their bats, because, they just don't care.
With this in mind, I'd respectfully ask all CBF members to remember that, when we try and give advice to a brand, we don't necessarily know what we are talking about, especially when that brand has made a very clear decision about its marketing and marketplace...
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all very good advice and comments...its all appreciated...whilst my cricket store online is targeted very much at the USA / CAN market it will probably shock most people to know that probably 50% of my hammer bat sales if not more are into the AUS market..the majority of my 379 bats go to aus as well...probably an even percentage go to weird places like saudi arabia, denmark, thailand, malaysia and yes, even the UK...i have 1 guy in the UK ive sold about 10 $500 + bats to. ( from all brands ).my hammer brand is targeted worldwide not just the US, in fact most US buyers are very picky and buy primarily on price point, not quality...they will buy whatever or from whoever is the cheapest...( that doesnt work well for my model ):)
itsjustcricket.co.uk has become my UK arm and is focussed primarily on the UK market for hammer cricket..( not to say he doesnt focus on other brands as well )
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Jason , Would it not be possible that the U.K made bats to be sent directly to IJC rather than back and forth to cut back on transit and associated charges and thereby bring down the price a bit for the U.K market ?. Does it simply not work that way ?.
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I honestly think you'll struggle with the Platinum at £379 whilst you're still establishing yourself. Away from here your average cricketer is a conservative (with a little 'c') bloke and it's going to be hard to get them to part with that kind of money when they can have the pick of most other established brands bats on the shelves of their local store.
The problem is, if we decide to spend that money on a Laver, a Newbery or a H4L we know who is making the bat...and they are still all cheaper...
Its all well and good trying to establish a premium brand but you need to give the customer some incentive along the way...
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Here is a little comparison, You can pay a lot of money for top end puma or get a top end RPC for a lot less!!! made by same isn't it?
Now will I buy a Hammer bat? no, atleast not right now because i can't afford it but in future maybe yes...
reason: well if i pay money for a top end GN or Kooka or Puma they might be made in India or UK I don't know, there is no gurantee that it will look and perfrom like a top end bat (top end bats from big brands look like crap nowadays), so if Jason promised me a bat that would look like top of the line and perform like top of the line and made where ever i liked (UK or NZ) then it becomes easier for me to decide where I am going to spend that money...
again am i going to spend that money now? maybe not at this time....
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Btw welcome Jason...
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I don't mean to sound like a tool again. Me and Jason have no hard feelings after I dropped him an email.
But don't other brands have to pay for the luxury or posting about there bats/softs/equipment on here?
Obviously unless of course Jason has put in for sponsoring the forum, then I stand corrected
Welcome to the forum Jason
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Jason
What is your USP? Why should people buy bats at your prices when they can get the same quality for less elsewhere? I hope this comes across as a genuine question, it is in no way a sly dig.
Regards
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Once again, it is important to bear in mind the market that Hammer is targetted at. It is aimed at the North American market where there are no resident brands or batmakers. Equally, I am sure that Jason has done his research and knows what he needs to do to target the cricket equipment buying public in the US. Comparing what he is doing to the UK market isn't really a good comparison, and price arbitrage between the US and the UK isn't a good idea, so prices will remain constant across both.
Being stocked in IJC will help to open up the UK market, especially in the London area, and will save UK punters wishing to purchase Hammer, the shipping costs, which can only be a good thing for those who do.
While the price of the bats is not to my liking, I similarly wouldn't buy a Willostix top end bat, Screaming Cat or Barringtons AJK range, most of which are around the same price or more expensive currently, as I don't want to spend that much on a cricket bat... I'd almost guarantee that most sales of Hammer bats won't go to Forum members either.
While we forum members might like to think of ourselves as the connossieurs of the cricket world, we have a bad habit of being snobs, and the general public, who don't reside on forums like shiny stickers and pretty bats. Because of this, they don't ask every brand who makes their bats, because, they just don't care.
With this in mind, I'd respectfully ask all CBF members to remember that, when we try and give advice to a brand, we don't necessarily know what we are talking about, especially when that brand has made a very clear decision about its marketing and marketplace...
Awesome post, Tim, and thank you for taking the time to write it. You are absolutely spot on there. Once again, thanks.
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Ok... Now lets all go out, get a biiiggg stick and flog a dead horse
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Well come jason are you getting a page ???? Good rates ;)
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While we forum members might like to think of ourselves as the connossieurs of the cricket world, we have a bad habit of being snobs, and the general public, who don't reside on forums like shiny stickers and pretty bats. Because of this, they don't ask every brand who makes their bats, because, they just don't care.
With this in mind, I'd respectfully ask all CBF members to remember that, when we try and give advice to a brand, we don't necessarily know what we are talking about, especially when that brand has made a very clear decision about its marketing and marketplace...
I completely agree.
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hey guys. i see a bit of a trend here..there have been a few people saying how expensive hammer bats are...i think thats a bit of a generalization about the brand as a whole..yes the platinums are expensive...but by no means far above and beyond any other brand...i thought i would build up a bit of a list to make my point so as to not sound like im pulling any information out my behind..i just wanted to put things in perspective for people..
platinum…379 right?
cenkos..( whilst it includes a boat load of cool stuff, i know )….1000
GN legend…499
F40…475
GM player edition..474
GN legend in aus…456
slazenger masterclass…….427
puma platinum white in aus….409
GN e41 1200sr ……409
rogue players in aus….406
kookaburra players…..379
Hammer platinum ....379
puma players…369
spartan MC ……368
mongoose super premium…..350
slazenger V12…….317
bradbury players…..289
salix pod players……289
all prices are pounds by the way
so yes. my platinum bat is up there but as you can see by no means more expensive than anyone else..this is the best bat i could bring to market and thats the reason for the price..
for those of you who dont know the prices of my other bats..please check itsjustcricket.co.uk....not all my bats are 379 pounds...and am working on a G2, G3 and G4 offerings for next year as well..so stay tuned...hopefully all will be made in england as well..
Jason, you forgot to mention the M&H Master, as well as the Amplus and Distinction MkI bats - all of which are priced higher than the Platinums at £400+ and also made by, arguably, one of the smaller brands...
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Jason, you forgot to mention the M&H Master, as well as the Amplus and Distinction MkI bats - all of which are priced higher than the Platinums at £400+ and also made by, arguably, one of the smaller brands...
Millichamp carries some weight tho ;)
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Jason
What is your USP? Why should people buy bats at your prices when they can get the same quality for less elsewhere? I hope this comes across as a genuine question, it is in no way a sly dig.
Regards
*I take the point you aren't having a dig, but many people saying this sort of comment are having a dig, so please regard what is to follow as being addressed to them*
I think the point you are missing is that only a very small percentage of the bat buying public are aware of the things forum members are aware of (or think they are aware of)
Does Kookaburra stickering up someone elses bats mean they don't have a USP? In the opinion of most people who are going to buy a bat, i would say no it doesn't, this would apply even if the buyer was made aware of this outsourcing.
So why should it be any different for Jason and Hammer? Is it because he is new, or relatively small by comparison? Does this make him and his company fair game?
Having become a relatively good friend of Paul's over recent months, i think a lot of the flak he is copping as a result of all this is very unjust.
I have not always been Jasons biggest fan for various reasons, and i don't always agree with some of the things he does. But i do believe he is very committed to providing a quality product, he's been as honest as possible with people who have questioned him, and to be honest i think his reaction to some of your comments is totally understandable.
Don't judge the product based on what you perceive it to be. Just because its made by 'x' and bats from the brand 'x' makes are available at cheaper prices means very little.
We get Hunts to make the bats that we give to local players we sponsor with our own brand (we may soon get Hunts to make all of our own brand bats) and not one of them is like a Hunts in any way, aside from the distinctive shoulders. They are pressed differently, the shapes are different, etc.
If you've got a 'recipe' for a bat, ie you want a certain shape and you specify the quality of wood and pressing etc and then get 'x' to make it for you, i don't see how anyone can compare this to 'x' own brand.
There will always be people who want a premium product, i highly doubt knowing the provenance of the bat they are about to buy would sway their decision. They wouldn't turn down a hammer just because its made by 'x' and an 'x' made bat is on the shelf next to it at a cheaper price. Stickers, image and most importantly, EXCLUSIVITY are very important to many people.
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Why did you choose to stock Hammer, out of interest Paul?
There's lots of fantastic young English cricket batmakers here, manufacturing, shaping and branding. What was it about the Texan brand which drew you in and made you want to import those, over supporting a British maker?
(This isn't a loaded question, I'm just after understanding a little more about what makes this brand stand out)
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Why did you choose to stock Hammer, out of interest Paul?
There's lots of fantastic young English cricket batmakers here, manufacturing, shaping and branding. What was it about the Texan brand which drew you in and made you want to import those, over supporting a British maker?
(This isn't a loaded question, I'm just after understanding a little more about what makes this brand stand out)
They have awesome momentum, the timing's great, and I love everything about the bats, and Marcus and Jason are two of the most savvy, honest and professional businessmen I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. I trust them and the product 100%, which is a lot more than I can say for many other brands out there. Hope that answers your question satisfactorily, Tom?
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Is there any reviews of the bats anywhere? :)
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Have you tried to do business with Matt from H4L? Or Andy from Saf?
They have a lot more weight in the UK market than Hammer do Paul, ok you're in the business and that's cool, but maybe look closer to home sometimes? I'm not knocking you pal, I think you're a top guy, but it would be interesting to hear why you didn't have a chat with these lads first. If you have, then I apologise and will eat my words, so to speak.
And secondly, what is it that makes you untrusting to these other brands you mention? No names of course, but business ethics, plan etc
I will just say I'm trying to be constructive mate and ask questions because I'm interested that's all
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I actually think it was a good move, albeit riskier than other options, to stock Hammer. But for different business reasons than stated above.
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I actually think it was a good move, albeit riskier than other options, to stock Hammer. But for different business reasons than stated above.
such as ?
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Have you tried to do business with Matt from H4L? Or Andy from Saf?
They have a lot more weight in the UK market than Hammer do Paul, ok you're in the business and that's cool, but maybe look closer to home sometimes? I'm not knocking you pal, I think you're a top guy, but it would be interesting to hear why you didn't have a chat with these lads first. If you have, then I apologise and will eat my words, so to speak.
And secondly, what is it that makes you untrusting to these other brands you mention? No names of course, but business ethics, plan etc
I will just say I'm trying to be constructive mate and ask questions because I'm interested that's all
Is there any reviews of the bats anywhere? :)
Yes, on our YouTube channel, and Jason's too - plenty of videos to see! :)
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Have you tried to do business with Matt from H4L? Or Andy from Saf?
They have a lot more weight in the UK market than Hammer do Paul, ok you're in the business and that's cool, but maybe look closer to home sometimes? I'm not knocking you pal, I think you're a top guy, but it would be interesting to hear why you didn't have a chat with these lads first. If you have, then I apologise and will eat my words, so to speak.
And secondly, what is it that makes you untrusting to these other brands you mention? No names of course, but business ethics, plan etc
I will just say I'm trying to be constructive mate and ask questions because I'm interested that's all
I'll PM you about this later, mate
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I actually think it was a good move, albeit riskier than other options, to stock Hammer. But for different business reasons than stated above.
I agree with Tom on this, I think it's a great idea to stock Hammer. Yes it's a risk, but they're good quality premium priced sticks. I see no reason why Paul should look at a UK brand over Hammer, I'm sure he has done the business analysis needed before making this decision. I wish both Jason and Paul the bet of luck in this venture, but I must admit it is getting a little tiresome with what appears to be constant nitpicking of Paul's business decisions and Jason's products.
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I agree with Tom on this, I think it's a great idea to stock Hammer. Yes it's a risk, but they're good quality premium priced sticks. I see no reason why Paul should look at a UK brand over Hammer, I'm sure he has done the business analysis needed before making this decision. I wish both Jason and Paul the bet of luck in this venture, but I must admit it is getting a little tiresome with what appears to be constant nitpicking of Paul's business decisions and Jason's products.
Thanks, Charlie, I agree - it is getting a little tiresome! This is that last thing I'll say about it tonight (because there is one other reason): I wanted to vary up our stock a little and stand out from the crowd. It's a competitive market in this country so you have to do what you can to be different from the others...
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I'm going to refer everyone to my earlier comment. Why should a retailer not stock produce from whom they wish?
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I wanted to vary up our stock a little and stand out from the crowd. It's a competitive market in this country so you have to do what you can to be different from the others...
That is a very good reason indeed and with Vantage in stock too you are well on your way with this one. Good luck with it
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Variety is the spice of life,
And Paul I think you have been chatting to Jason too much. There's been a few "Awesome's" in your posts ;) your becoming americanised!
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Have you tried to do business with Matt from H4L? Or Andy from Saf?
They have a lot more weight in the UK market than Hammer do Paul, ok you're in the business and that's cool, but maybe look closer to home sometimes? I'm not knocking you pal, I think you're a top guy, but it would be interesting to hear why you didn't have a chat with these lads first. If you have, then I apologise and will eat my words, so to speak.
And secondly, what is it that makes you untrusting to these other brands you mention? No names of course, but business ethics, plan etc
I will just say I'm trying to be constructive mate and ask questions because I'm interested that's all
Paul's already supportng the smaller brands by stocking vantage
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English batmakers make a quality product, but product doesn't sell itself. Needs quality marketing, and for me thatt is what sets apart Hammer at the moment. Their online marketing is ahead of any cricket brand around. 6000 FB fans through targetted advertising, millions of YT views and a growing Twitter following. The risk is associating yourself with Jason and the competition of his own site, but the access to quality traffic and individuals outweighs that. It's no co-incidence that one of the most view posts on CI is a Hammer post and it's no co-incidence that we've had 8 pages of posts about him on here. The brand already has a following and inspires debate, whilst retaining quality. Huge potential to leverage off that through A/B tested and search optimized landing pages. With a brand without that marketing you'd have to do it all yourself, with people who already know about your store (so bringing little extra revenue). Hammer will bring people to IJC.
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IJC can sell whatever they want to whomever they want. Its a free market, if they think people are going to buy the bats then why not? it's their risk (as it is with any brand they take on)
But it is a bit off though to ask us all to 'support our local cricket shop' and give a myriad of (correct) reasons to do so but then choose a Texan brand over a UK batmaker! Does not the British batmaking industry deserve the same sort of support from you that you ask for from us? Obviously you stock other overseas brands but you could have quite easily stocked another UK brand in place of Hammer. It's one brand with no reputation (as yet) being replaced by another with some! If you catch my drift!
Nothing against Hammer, I picked one up a while ago at a net a few of us had it seemed like a nice thing.....
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welcome to the forum Jason.
For sure this has been the hottest topic :)
As they say Bad publicity - there is no such thing like that
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I wasn't knocking Paul in the slightest, it's the first time I've ever properly asked him questions. I wasn't criticising him or his business nouse, just asking a question that's all.
If you read my posts, all I've said is that I think Hammer are pricey, not that Paul is making a bad choice or Jason has it wrong, I was trying to be constructive.
Apologies if it came across any other way
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Does forum publicity actually = pounds and pence sales?
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Does forum publicity actually = pounds and pence sales?
What it definitely equals is google search hits...
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What it definitely equals is google search hits...
and probably Twitter followers
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So not pounds and pence sales then - which ultimately is what you are trying to run a brand for - sales and profit.
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I think forum publicity does result in sales. Why else would 30 brands continue to pay £15 a month?
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If only we had the figures eh Tom? Many of the micro-brands that suddenly arrived on the forum this year never post or contribute much to the forum.
why are they herre - are they getting any tangible sales from the forum. Have they forgotten about their 315 a month?
I'm going to name them in a minute and get into trouble!
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It's a bold move if you're not confident about your bats - to attract people here means they'll read up on other bats and increase their knowledge of the industry and who makes what.
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I'm happy to be proven wrong, but 180 quid a year is only the net profit on say 3-4 bats for most micro-brands, but some feature so little on here, you wonder if they get the returns from being on here -
Aedos, Aldred, D+P, Fat Bats, Nixon and Shark for instance average 1 post a week, in some cases much less - is this really selling them loads of bats?
I admire Hammer's spunk but does lots of negative/positive argy-bargy on here actually result in the sale of say, 20 bats?
Would any of the more 'active' sponsors on here such as H4L, BlankBats or MSR care to say how many bats they can confidently claim to sell from the forum a year?
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I'm happy to be proven wrong, but 180 quid a year is only the net profit on say 3-4 bats for most micro-brands, but some feature so little on here, you wonder if they get the returns from being on here -
Aedos, Aldred, D+P, Fat Bats, Nixon and Shark for instance average 1 post a week, in some cases much less - is this really selling them loads of bats?
I admire Hammer's spunk but does lots of negative/positive argy-bargy on here actually result in the sale of say, 20 bats?
Would any of the more 'active' sponsors on here such as H4L, BlankBats or MSR care to say how many bats they can confidently claim to sell from the forum a year?
I think it's easy for the smaller brands to feel as if they have to come on here - it's like a trade show - may not result in direct sales, though you need to be (or feel pressured to be) 'at the races' to stay in peoples minds.
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So are we saying that Hammer is entering a very competitive market - and the negative publicity is a good thing?
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IJC can sell whatever they want to whomever they want. Its a free market, if they think people are going to buy the bats then why not? it's their risk (as it is with any brand they take on)
But it is a bit off though to ask us all to 'support our local cricket shop' and give a myriad of (correct) reasons to do so but then choose a Texan brand over a UK batmaker! Does not the British batmaking industry deserve the same sort of support from you that you ask for from us? Obviously you stock other overseas brands but you could have quite easily stocked another UK brand in place of Hammer. It's one brand with no reputation (as yet) being replaced by another with some! If you catch my drift!
Nothing against Hammer, I picked one up a while ago at a net a few of us had it seemed like a nice thing.....
I feel that, with the amount we push Salix and Willostix (especially on YouTube), we are doing our bit for the proper English brands already. And as I said, I like to have variety...
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English batmakers make a quality product, but product doesn't sell itself. Needs quality marketing, and for me thatt is what sets apart Hammer at the moment. Their online marketing is ahead of any cricket brand around. 6000 FB fans through targetted advertising, millions of YT views and a growing Twitter following. The risk is associating yourself with Jason and the competition of his own site, but the access to quality traffic and individuals outweighs that. It's no co-incidence that one of the most view posts on CI is a Hammer post and it's no co-incidence that we've had 8 pages of posts about him on here. The brand already has a following and inspires debate, whilst retaining quality. Huge potential to leverage off that through A/B tested and search optimized landing pages. With a brand without that marketing you'd have to do it all yourself, with people who already know about your store (so bringing little extra revenue). Hammer will bring people to IJC.
All good points, Tom, cheers - also, remember Jason has a very similar marketing approach to us, especially on Facebook, YouTube etc. He also has a similar work ethic. I'm surprised you are the only one to have picked up on things like this, to be honest. If I were an outsider looking in I would think it's a pretty sound and sensible business partnership that actually makes a lot of sense...
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So here's a question for you fattus, why did MSR join CBF and CIF? Question only to be answered by the big pud, please...
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So here's a question for you fattus, why did MSR join CBF and CIF? Question only to be answered by the big pud, please...
To turn around a negative brand image.
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So are we saying that Hammer is entering a very competitive market - and the negative publicity is a good thing?
I think the thing a few people may not understand is this (slightly polarized view nonetheless!)...If you 'know' (or think you know) Cricket bats, willow, sources, brands...would you choose a Jason hammer over a brand you could get for a lesser price? And if you're less informed than all us industry insiders (tongue firmly in cheek!), what's to make you choose this unknown brand (at £380) over the GN/Kook/GM stalwarts?
All that said, I can't think of a better personality to take this challenge on than Jason...so good luck to him, and to Paul who could be blazing a bit of a trail with his support of the smaller brands in his shop. Will be sure to pop in next time to see it with my own hands...
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To turn around a negative brand image.
There are many ways to do that... Why use a forum?
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So here's a question for you fattus, why did MSR join CBF and CIF? Question only to be answered by the big pud, please...
To turn around a negative brand image.
Yup...To connect with their buying public. They would be starved of a key communication route if they were not allowed to post here. Plus for MSR it's been a bit of a ebay-fee-free means to have a bit of a (albeit limited) shopfront.
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Jason, wanna send me a bat? your cheapest lowest model so I can review (not that i am an expert) and I promise to send it back... lets see how good it is? I promise to post an honest review up here and comparison would be against...
H4L, RPC, Scat, KG!! I can get more bats to compare it to if you like....
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I think you overestimate the sales the forum generates. There are other reasons for participating...
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There are many ways to do that... Why use a forum?
It was a brand image perpetuated by yhe forum, a google search of msr directed you to threads on here.
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Thanks, Charlie, I agree - it is getting a little tiresome! This is that last thing I'll say about it tonight (because there is one other reason): I wanted to vary up our stock a little and stand out from the crowd. It's a competitive market in this country so you have to do what you can to be different from the others...
Spot on Paul. I think you are doing just that and standing out from others with the brands you are stocking and actively promoting.
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Seriously who cares how much they cost. If you buy one good luck and if you don't then so what.
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Seriously who cares how much they cost. If you buy one good luck and if you don't then so what.
my thoughts exactly!
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Seriously who cares how much they cost. If you buy one good luck and if you don't then so what.
yeah you tell 'em 8)
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But it's the mindless discussion about insignificant cricket bat minutiae that keeps this place going! The fact a new competitor wants to come in at a premium price point is more than worthy of a bit of chatter!?
Crumbs if we take the 'who cares' approach we'd all probably get some work done!
Right then...Who's got the best sticker adhesive on their bats? Is there more than one sticker adhesive overlord supplying the whole of the UK market?.... ;)
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I think the Hammers are good looking bats, and at the very least I'd expect them to generate a bit of extra footfall at IJC which could potentially increase sales of other brands there. I would imagine that if Paul stocks the Boom Boom Arrogance this might be in a similar category in respect of footfall etc. Commercially it is a good move in my opinion.
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Price for the most part is irrelevant with items we view as more of a symbol than a straight forward purchase.
I personally have sold a bat for well in excess of £1000 and was the person happy? Rather than courier the bat to NYC he paid for it to have the seat next to him on a first class flight from London to New York. Thats how much he valued something personal to him. Rare but it does happen.
When people buy something like a bat it often represents more... and if they feel happy, then the price is not really a hinderance as some bats have been sold at the upper tier and viewed as a bargain as it's what you are buying into. If you can buy something that not only works as a bat but makes you "feel" special then it can be worth it to some.
You are all proof of this no matter where on the scale you sit. ;)
Thats why there is choice, but for every 3 of you searching for the bargain there will be one looking for something to compliment their character and that can often come at a cost... to them it's worth it.
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In short - price is what a consumer is willing to pay.
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It is - and value is what someone else would be willing to pay!
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Its simple, if people dont want to spend £350+ on a hammer bat, then dont