Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: thecord on January 02, 2013, 12:51:37 PM
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Just wondering how clubs set up their winter nets?
Our club is pretty much a free for all. People rock up somewhere vaguely around start time, some bowl, some bat and there really isn't much in the way of organisation. I have my own ideas about how best to organise them this year but how does your club go about making sure everyone gets the maximum possible from winter nets?
Appreciate any feedback.
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We use the doodle system. People book a slot for coming so we have 6 people. Bowlers can then also agree to turn up but they wont have a bat.
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when you find a good answer let me know :)
Every club net I've ever been too just turns into a 'first team net' 'second team net' 'youth net' (mainly because first teamers don't like to be associated with anyone of 'lesser' ability).. THen it's the same 2 or 3 'stars' (or perceived stars) who bat first and usually for the longest.. Everyone else just bowls, then gets their 5 to 10 mins when bowls are bored or people are too busy trying to knock the batsmens head off because suddenly they can bounce people!
Of course, I would also say I've only been to 5 different clubs nets and none are what I'd call 'highly organised' clubs.
zero technical training, zero bowler training etc.. It's basically for the 'good' ones to slag off anyone else, the crap ones to get blasted in the head by the 'quicks' and then for people to have a slog.
It's the main reason why tbh, until I'm convinced by a clubs net I just don't value them other than a social gathering. If I go I usually just rock up and bowl. Even then I just bowl pies to the 'stars' and then bowl properly to the others to give them better training (always just bowl line and length too, nothing (intentionally) short.
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We use the doodle system. People book a slot for coming so we have 6 people. Bowlers can then also agree to turn up but they wont have a bat.
I don't know many people who would turn up and not bat, even the bowlers like to have a slog :)
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True then they need to register first to get on the "batting list"
If they dont then they can turn up to bowl.
I regularly come down just to have a bowl at as many people as I can. The more overs under you belt the better!
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Everyone else just bowls, then gets their 5 to 10 mins when bowls are bored or people are too busy trying to knock the batsmens head off because suddenly they can bounce people!
It's obviously quite a common thing then. I love it when guys at our club who bowl 60-70 suddenly think they're Dale Steyn and try bouncing you, yet when they play on a slow low wicket on Saturday they can't hit a length for toffee!
I always try and approach nets with a match frame of mind.
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We use the doodle system. People book a slot for coming so we have 6 people. Bowlers can then also agree to turn up but they wont have a bat.
How many people do you generally get turning up for that Ciaran?
I can see the benfit but as Adie says I would be worried that we may only end up with 6 turning up each week!
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Oh I think it's good that the bowlers bowl and batters bat but (from my very limited experience), you never get everyone to nets anyway and hte ones that do go (barring the odd one or two) want to bat (and actually have a decent bat, not just 5 mins at the end when no one is actually bothering to bowl properly anymore etc).
Like I said, I have no answers I'm afraid. I know in theory what I'd like to see but to achieve that means you probably need more time, equipment and committment from your players than any 'normal' club actually ever has.
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It's obviously quite a common thing then. I love it when guys at our club who bowl 60-70 suddenly think they're Dale Steyn and try bouncing you, yet when they play on a slow low wicket on Saturday they can't hit a length for toffee!
I always try and approach nets with a match frame of mind.
Our nets are the least bouncy I have ever played on which actually works out quite well for early season puddings and means the only danger is the beamers!
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How many people do you generally get turning up for that Ciaran?
I can see the benfit but as Adie says I would be worried that we may only end up with 6 turning up each week!
We get 6 per lane each week minimum. That works out as a 10 minutes bat per batsman. Its not an amazing amount of time but more than enough to get going. For me 5 - 6 is the perfect number per lane anyway.
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Oh I think it's good that the bowlers bowl and batters bat but (from my very limited experience), you never get everyone to nets anyway and hte ones that do go (barring the odd one or two) want to bat (and actually have a decent bat, not just 5 mins at the end when no one is actually bothering to bowl properly anymore etc).
Like I said, I have no answers I'm afraid. I know in theory what I'd like to see but to achieve that means you probably need more time, equipment and committment from your players than any 'normal' club actually ever has.
What would be your ideal set up then Adie?
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We get 6 per lane each week minimum. That works out as a 10 minutes bat per batsman. Its not an amazing amount of time but more than enough to get going. For me 5 - 6 is the perfect number per lane anyway.
Ah ok so you book 6 batsmen per lane in advance for each net? Thought you meant 6 for the whole session! We have three lanes so would have been an issue!
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Yep 6 per lane, Bowlers then rotate lanes if needed.
Im only a member of a small club so nets revolve around 7 key players really. So its usually 1 lane booked for 6. As a bowler I love just bowling for the full time and also works out best for the real batsmen to face proper bowling not just other batsmen throwing it down there!
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Nets on a mass scale aren't great practice to be honest.
Bowlers bowling one ball at a time can't be very helpful to them and batsman facing an array of different bowlers and actions is an absolute nightmare
My old club tried to implement a slow/spin, fast/medium and a bowling machine net a few years back. Each batsman faced 2 overs (full overs from 2 separate bowlers) in each net followed by a bucket of balls v the bowling machine.
It worked well while we had a coach overseeing it, when he wasn't it soon descended into a free-for-all.
Obviously it depends on your numbers
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Our nets are the least bouncy I have ever played on which actually works out quite well for early season puddings and means the only danger is the beamers!
That sounds pretty realistic. Some of the concrete floors inside the sports halls we've netted in have been like trampolines - not ideal prep for a late April wicket ;)
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Nets on a mass scale aren't great practice to be honest.
Bowlers bowling one ball at a time can't be very helpful to them and batsman facing an array of different bowlers and actions is an absolute nightmare
My old club tried to implement a slow/spin, fast/medium and a bowling machine net a few years back. Each batsman faced 2 overs (full overs from 2 separate bowlers in each net) followed by a bucket of balls v the bowling machine.
It worked well while we had a coach overseeing it, when he wasn't it soon descended into a few-for-all.
Obviously it depends on your numbers
Thanks for that Alba. This is the kind of thing I had been thinking of trying to introduce. We have loosely attempted it in the past but as you say we have no official coach so it doesn't tend to work out. Until this year I have always bowled in nets as despit being a keeper I can still send down some reasonable stuff but lately the body has objected to this so I am thinking of just doing the organisation and batting when time allows.
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I personally would like it to be a 2 to 3 hour session. You have 5 lanes in the indoor place in chelt so I'd have 3 lanes set up with a machine, and then the last 2 nets for bowlers.
Batsmen then rotate through the 3 machine nets which work on specific shots (for arguements sake lets take the basic, full on off stump, good line and length and then back of a length). The bowlers work on lines and lengths with a zone marked onto the floor for them to hit. you could have different zones for different people if you want by just using different colour chalk or something.
Once people have cycled through (you can do 10/15 mins on each machine station) batting wise, the bowling nets then have batsmen inserted as training and the bowlers are then given a target (Say, bowl 6 balls all back of a length on off stump, or bowl full and at middle etc etc (simply learning control)). The batsmen gets to face 'live' bowling and the bowler is still just training up balls/control.
You can then either keep cycling people through the machines (maybe changing the shots etc) and take one lane out and do some keeping training with your keepers. Maybe remove a machine lane in the last hour and do some spin, have your spinners in there and batsmen can train against that.
If a batsmen just starts slogging then if people stopped saying 'good shot' 'wow' etc and went 'hey dave, you will never play that in a game even if you nailed the next 1000 in a row, why bother!', people will get the message eventually and play 'properly'.
You can do other sessions where the bowler is given a scenario to bowl too and the batsmen is given something and told a field etc.. bit of match stuff.. you can do a bit of indoor sixs type stuff and practice dropping and running in pairs etc etc.
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Sounds fantatstic but as you said before I doubt that there is even a top Premier League club in the country who manages a regular set up as good as that. There are some good ideas contained within though that may work. Just thinking how much that would all cost is giving me a headache :(
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The coaches role is key in this and is why it didn't work out long term for us. If you have a senior player that is happy to oversee that is great but he will spend the majority of his time clock watching and making sure the more simple members of the squad are where they are meant to be, and subsequently might not join in much
Another problem is that not every sports hall/smaller club has a bowling machine
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The coaches role is key in this and is why it didn't work out long term for us. If you have a senior player that is happy to oversee that is great but he will spend the majority of his time clock watching and making sure the more simple members of the squad are where they are meant to be, and subsequently might not join in much
Another problem is that not every sports hall/smaller club has a bowling machine
Well if I take the role then there is only me to blame ;)
Our venue has a bowling machine now and we are trying to save up the funds to purchase our own so hopefully should work ok
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Very true! You should be able to direct operations from the bowling machine!
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However, I realise that I have always taken sport a little more seriously than most 'normal' people and that outside commitments mean others can't give hours a week just to train so what little time they have they want to mess about, have a slog, chat or generally just be there for time away from home etc.
To me I can't understand why people don't want to be the best they can be, doesn't matter how good or bad that is, or what level you play at (I'm not a believer in 'level' business tbh).
I also suspect if you have too 'serious' a net session you will find a few regulars attend,but a fair few will just not bother because it's too 'serious' and probably too much like hard work. So it's finding a balance, you need them to be constructive BUT not put people off.. Which to me unfortunately at the amateur level means nets are basically a turn up and slog session rather than anything decent.
Well If I go off what it would cost me to put that on.. (assume people brought their own drink, balls etc.)
£39 an hour for the hall (so that'd 39x3=£117)
Most clubs have a machine at least so if we say an 'average' club only really needs say 3 lanes.. Hire another machine for a few hours (which is around £20 an hour or something - For the club Im thinking about 2 of us have our own machines so the club would need to hire one machine 3x20=£60
So a total cost of £177 per session. However, yes that is a lot for one session BUT my theory would be that if people knew you ran quality training sessions mroe people are likely to attend from your club AND the chances are you'd attract other players to your club. Charge each player £5 say per session.. Even if you only got say 20 people per session it's only costing your club £77. I reckon with sessions like that you'd attract more players than 20 anyway. I think one of hte clubs I netted with last year ((No Swearing Please) nets) lost loads because barring those 3 or 4 'stars' who just dominated things everyoen else just said 'sod that' and didnt' bother going.
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Having a two to three hour session with two nets of bowlers generally provides you with a number of major problems. With two nets, and 1.5 hours, bowlers (even with 6 per net) are generally tired at the end of 1.5 hours. If you run them for 3 hours, people will get bored.
The difficulty is that you can only ever have 3 or 4 batsmen at a time in nets (and most places don't get 3 or 4 nets) and if you have a bowling net with 6 or more people bowling, your bowlers bowl six, then get cold, then bowl six and pull something. Indoor nets just aren't set up with the space to operate properly.
I'd use somewhere like the Oval, book the entire hall, then have a machine net, a bowling net and the remainder of the space as fielding practice. When bowlers are not in their 3 over bowling spell, they are fielding, as are the batsmen. That way, you can keep all the people who turn up involved and doing something. Matches are a bit different because you do support the guys in the middle, or are on your toes when fielding. Nets just don't have that so keeping people going can be pretty tricky.
£5 per session is a pretty normal price at adult sub rates, with a discount if you pay for the lot in one hit. I'm not syaing it wouldn't work, but at ECB Premier level you are more likely to get attendees than at Surrey division four with that kind of set-up.
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@tim - I wouldn't ever expect that training session by the way. It's just what I'd love to be involved in. I feel it would lead to the improvement of so many players, very quickly too.
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I'm all for bettering yourself but to suggest that most clubs can afford to subsidize sessions by £77 per week is unrealistic. Most clubs beneath prem level wouldn't want to subsidize by a penny and rightly so.
My current club net indoors from Jan/Feb once a week, right through to April. The money lost on these sessions in that time could go towards hiring a coach or overseas pro for the season
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Ours is a nightmare, 2 hours with 4 lanes and about 50-60 people turning up! You get about 10 minutes batting if you're lucky and no coaching. This season is going to be a nightmare as our usual place is being renovated and we'll have 3 lanes for an hour for non 1/2XI players. Hence I'm forking out for some 121 coaching and focusing more on my fitness than last season.
We also have to fork out for winter nets at £5 session which last season worked out at £65 for me, which given I only scored 67 runs kind of speaks for itself!
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I think every club has a small group of players who would net every day of the week if given the chance, unfortunatly as stated above the cost implications for those keen individuals go up as the participation levels go down.
Our nets start off really busy with a room full of buzzing cricketers and its great but towards the end of the winter net stage, before we start to go out side this wanes alot. Starting nets too early has been a problem for us in the past.
I've always been the type to practice with the intensity that i would have in a match situation and that is difficult when some of the bowling you face hits the lighting, the netting and the odd one lands perfectly, grips and makes you look very silly. Therefore having a bowling machine is very handy.
some batsman at our club need to be netting all the time or get out of nick whereas some can just pick a bat up and look a million dollars, strange...
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batsmen are all different. I gain confidence from good net sessions, whereas my friend hates them! He believes if he has played well the week before if he touches a bat in between it could mean he gets out of form so just won't bother. I hate that because i don't feel like he's putting any effort in to improve because although you will improve by playing matches you won't improve as much as someone training a few times a week. Otherwise pro's wouldnt' train!
I agree most clubs cant take a loss on nets, I'd expect more that 20 people to come to that mentioned session though. Probably more like 40 once word gets round it's worth actually attending!
I will be attending 3 or 4 different clubs 'pre-season' nets this year so it'll be interesting to see what they are like. I suspect as none there will know me I'll get a load of balls aimed at the stumps which I'll deal with and then suddenly I'll just get my head knocked off. I would put money on it
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So basically I think we are saying that winter nets are never going to be perfect. For every player that wants to net with the intensity of a match there is another who wants to have a chat with his mates and throw down the odd pie/bouncer. Glad it is not just my club that faces this issue!
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can't remember who it was but they had the most realistic idea tbh.. 3 lanes.. one batting against hte machine, one bowling net and then a net where the bowlers bowl and the batsmen face (give the bowler a plan to bowl too to train them control).
That's probably the only realistic way mere mortals can train at really. Like I said, I don't think any clubs clubs nets will achieve anything other than just get people together for a natter and a slog.
anyway, gym time.. see you all in 90 mins :) Got 5 stone to lose :(
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We did the 1st team/2nd team split based on ability but guys who were gifted in one particular area use to swap nets. Batting order was pretty much turn up first and you bat first, encourages people to be prompt. Most of the coaching involved a bit of passing on knowledge or encouragement. Nothing beats proper coaching but having somebody with some experience giving you some insight and advice doesn't hurt.
We also did a bowling machine session on a weekend. Working on specific batsman weaknesses and getting guys reactions up. Like to think they did them some good. Too many guys just set it for the drive and look pretty. Our sessions weren't pretty at all. Use to start on the weak area at a nice slow pace, get the basics sorted and slowly ramp it up. Amazing what a bit of repetition did for some guys weak areas.
I reckon 1 hour is a bit short, 2 hours can feel a bit tough. Depends how many you have netting. I work on 1 batting, 1 getting gear on, leaving a minimum of 3 bowlers, ideally 4 if it's just an hour. I'd probably push that to 6 or 7 for 90 mins/2 hours as guys start to fade, get drinks, have a rest.
A couple of things we did every now and again was to get the camcorder out and video batsman. Funny how they start batting properly in the nets isn't it :). The other thing was a 3*3 bowling grid. Somebody would score the bowlers on where they pitched the ball ie. short/good/full length or wide off/stumps/down leg. The idea being to hit the good to full lengths on or outside off and get a high % accuracy score. It's a real wakeup call for some so-called bowlers when they discover there accuracy is below 30%!
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I like the bowler accuracy idea.
How do bowlers respond to being asked to bowl at a target like this rather than at a batsman Nick?
Any bowlers have an opinion on that?
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I like the bowler accuracy idea.
How do bowlers respond to being asked to bowl at a target like this rather than at a batsman Nick?
Any bowlers have an opinion on that?
Depends what you mean by "At a batsman" ;)
In reality, as a bowler, you should be using nets to bowl line and length and to make sure your stock and change balls all come out fluidly. Until you are doing this, you really shouldn't be bowling anything else. When you are hitting the spot 6 out of 6, then you start to try your new things, but again, not to the detriment of your normal result.
The problem is that when you are bowling yourself into line and length, and the batsmen is creaming you on your bad balls, too many people resort to using the silly stuff because of the net conditions, where continuing to bowl what you should would serve you better.
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I think one of the worst things that I find at nets is bowlers that think they can bat(without sounding harsh) and constantly end up batting every session for ages.
At ours though we set up 3 nets and for 2 we have a mixture of 1st and 2nd XI players, then the other one a 3rd and 4th XI net(excluding a few who fancy a challenge) and then people will choose when to bat
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Depends what you mean by "At a batsman" ;)
In reality, as a bowler, you should be using nets to bowl line and length and to make sure your stock and change balls all come out fluidly. Until you are doing this, you really shouldn't be bowling anything else. When you are hitting the spot 6 out of 6, then you start to try your new things, but again, not to the detriment of your normal result.
The problem is that when you are bowling yourself into line and length, and the batsmen is creaming you on your bad balls, too many people resort to using the silly stuff because of the net conditions, where continuing to bowl what you should would serve you better.
Haha, not too many "batsmen" where I play!
What I mean is will bowlers object to being asked to bowl at a target on the ground repeatedly rather than trying to get a guy out?
And also if the aim is to hit the target is there actually any need for a batsman to be there?
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Haha, not too many "batsmen" where I play!
What I mean is will bowlers object to being asked to bowl at a target on the ground repeatedly rather than trying to get a guy out?
And also if the aim is to hit the target is there actually any need for a batsman to be there?
Answering question 2, no, answering question 1, it's what you should be doing. Answering the missing question, if you are bowling at a marked target area, there should be a batsman there practising leaving, defending, or whatnot, against good line and length!
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A couple of things we did every now and again was to get the camcorder out and video batsman. Funny how they start batting properly in the nets isn't it :). The other thing was a 3*3 bowling grid. Somebody would score the bowlers on where they pitched the ball ie. short/good/full length or wide off/stumps/down leg. The idea being to hit the good to full lengths on or outside off and get a high % accuracy score. It's a real wakeup call for some so-called bowlers when they discover there accuracy is below 30%!
I get this idea and the merit behind it although i do not necessarily agree with the exact method...a few years ago someone tried doing this to me and it completely (No Swearing Please) up my game...i think a little bit of self awareness and areas where you can bowl and bowl well are important...
I usually mark an imaginary spot on the track and aim to hit that over and over again, it obviously needs to be a spot where its not easy for batsmen...i think line of the ball can be marked down but the length should be detemined by bowlers...me being 6'3 tall have different length than another guy who is 5'9... but the basic idea of hitting the same spot over and over again is very important for accuracy...
and as tim said you need a batsman at the other end, just bowling at stumps is very different to bowling at a batsman, similarly bowling at a batsman is also very different to bowling in a match....
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I like the bowler accuracy idea.
How do bowlers respond to being asked to bowl at a target like this rather than at a batsman Nick?
Any bowlers have an opinion on that?
I don't bowl at a batsman, I bowl at the stumps. I'm trying to bowl in good areas every ball. The only time I bowl at a batsman is when he has a specific weakness I can exploit or my good areas need revising ie. tall guy with long reach might need to bowl more back of a length to avoid being driven.
The important thing is to develop good habits. Too many idiots try to knock your head off and then bowl a badly disguised slower ball, then go around the wicket, then do something else, etc ,etc. (Honestly, I'll slap the next bowler who goes round the wicket to me after being hit for 4). The upshot being they haven't bowled a single ball on the stumps. To me this is a the biggest change in the last 30 odd years in club cricket. The number of guys bowling a consistent length and line has fallen away. I never needed a helmet in the 80's because I would be more worried about getting bowled or caught in slips as bowlers nagged away on a length. Last season I got 30 odd in a game and only received 2 balls in 10-12 overs hitting the stumps, the second one yorking me. The rest I hooked, cut, drove or simply left.
My bowling % accuracy in the top 4 left squares ie. full/good length on or outside off was nearly 90%, that's 1 rank ball in every 9 or 10. I'm not a brilliant bowler, decent yes. However you'd be surprised how many star bowlers can't bowl a consistent length.
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i think line of the ball can be marked down but the length should be detemined by bowlers...me being 6'3 tall have different length than another guy who is 5'9... but the basic idea of hitting the same spot over and over again is very important for accuracy...
If a moveable target is used and the length changed according to bowler that would be ok though yes?
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I love my bowlers thinking so much ;)
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I get that Nick. On grass, I bowl as a standard, a ball that pitches just short and seams away. I get a lot of playing and missing. Occasionally I'll bowl a slower one that swings in, but does the same off the pitch. It's usually a good shout for LBW. I can also pull one back in off the seam, which looks like the one going the other way and usually hits the top of the stumps.
This normally means I am bowling roughly off/just outside off. I rate a good game as one where I don't go for many runs, and wickets are a bonus. If I am being miserly, the wickets are usually falling at the other end. All about pressure...
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If a moveable target is used and the length changed according to bowler that would be ok though yes?
If you do this, you are bowling in overs, not in standard net practice.
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Your pretty much right Tim. It's about your personal performance rather than the batsman. 95% of batsman get themselves out, honestly how many unplayable balls do you bowl in a season? I bowled 1 that pitched outside leg and spun hitting off, the other 50 odd wickets were from rubbish batting. Batsman have a low boredom threshold and get twitchy if 6 balls on a length are bowled at them. Bowling a disciplined line and length is more important than bowling magic balls in club cricket.
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I love my bowlers thinking so much ;)
Redders, when I moved South and left Headingley they had to find somebody else to tell the bowlers to "bowl at the bloody stumps". You'll be sick to death of it by the end of the season lol
Putting it simply - bowl at the stumps and bowled/lbw/caught are all in play. Bowl halfway down the deck or wide and only caught comes into play. Therefore setting accuracy targets that involve hitting the stumps is common sense in terms of practise. Likewise, bowling one-side of the wicket and putting your fielders there isn't such a bad idea either.
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All these reasons are why I rate a darn good training session with the machine (all different sessions from working on specific weaknesses to getting someone to bowl good lines and lengths and mix a few in there etc) over 'nets' anytime. Hell, I refuse to even waste my time with indoor cricket purely because a net session is better for me that playing that load of tosh. Only guys I've found playing indoor are the so called 'stars' of the clubs. Problem is, when you look up the stats they are not there to back them up. makes me laugh :)
I haven't played that long BUT my father was pretty darn good (hell he's still better than I am, bowls so bloody accurately and swings/seams it).. anyway, he came to most of my games in 2011 and his observations were
1) The bowling is crap, no consistency. Yes they are as quick etc, but they gift 4 balls and runs by spraying it about.
2) Batsmen seem to just want to slog it all teh time and worry so much about S/R's
3) Sledging is worse today than it's ever been (he said it's always been there but it's more 'personal and aggressive' now.
That to me tells me that the overall quality of club cricket is lower than ever and barring the overseas and baring in mind I play a respectable standard I'd say it's pretty darn accurate. Nearly all batsmen slog and get themselves out, I've not seen one bowler who actually is just nagging.. they might nag for 5 balls an over but they will give you something, oh and the sledging is pathetic, banter between yourselves is fine but why people feel the need to attack me personally I don't know. Sod off and play your own game fellas.
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That's interesting. Our local indoor league is nothing like that. Very social, mainly younger guys playing for a laugh. Our lot even went to the pub between their semi final and final match!
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That's interesting. Our local indoor league is nothing like that. Very social, mainly younger guys playing for a laugh. Our lot even went to the pub between their semi final and final match!
Well I suspect they are all perfectly nice guys in their own right, not knocking them personally. Just that the league I have seen down here all the players seemed to think they were awesome. Umm, you pay to play cricket mate, you ain't awesome.
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All these reasons are why I rate a darn good training session with the machine (all different sessions from working on specific weaknesses to getting someone to bowl good lines and lengths and mix a few in there etc) over 'nets' anytime. Hell, I refuse to even waste my time with indoor cricket purely because a net session is better for me that playing that load of tosh. Only guys I've found playing indoor are the so called 'stars' of the clubs. Problem is, when you look up the stats they are not there to back them up. makes me laugh :)
Agree - facing a bowling machine is far better for a batsman in terms of developing your skills. Unless you have 2 or 3 bowlers right on the money, most nets sessions are a waste of time. Some of the sessions we had at Headingley were pretty intense as we had a fast bouncey surface and some guys who could get it through. I'm sure it help toughen some of the lads up. The point is the intensity required is often lacking and it becomes a gentle trundle.
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Completely agree with you Nick, intensity and specificity/realism are very important
The last club net sessions I went to I had two guys bowling lobs at me who don't get a bowl for our 3rds followed by our 1st team opening bowler bowling inswinging yorkers (think waqar but 20mph slower). End result was stumps everywhere and me batting for 25 minutes and feeling considerably worse than when I went in!
Have since had 2 sessions v bowling machine and both times have come away feeling genuinely better and learned about my technique
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I make of point of standing yards out of my ground if its just lobbers or trundlers. The net session becomes a bit more useful if you are batting from 15 yards. Also gets up the noses of the trundlers :-)
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At work there is a guy who plays for a different team in Worcester. He's a lvl 2 coach blah blah blah. Anyway, he does a youth team for his club and last year I made a point of going around a few clubs to watch how they ran said 'coaching' sessions. I was not impressed tbh.
All I mainly saw was a smaller version of an adults net tbh, with some guy saying 'move your front foot' 'watch the ball' etc etc. Not really anything there I'd personally class as coaching. Bowling wise all I saw was some guy saying 'good ball little jimmy' 'well done james' etc.. Again, nothing in the way of any coaching.
What I argued with him about was: If so much time and effort is now pumped into youth cricket why aren't they actually doing what I'd class as 'proper' coaching. So actually working on individual shots with kids, learning the basic shots and drilling them into them etc. Yes keep it fun by doing the games for fielding etc but for batting and bowling (core of the game at club level really) teach them the basic shots well. The good ones will pick it up quickly and can expand.. The 'less talented' ones still become reasonable players because they can play the basic shots. Same with bowling, your good bowler will develop variations etc etc.. you 'less talented' bowler will have just had line and length drilled into them so you can at least know they won't bowl random crap.
He of course said they can't spend any time really doing individual stuff and if they do it's with the 'best' kids. I really really hated that. Before anyone asks I'm going to give the youth team some help this year, my monday nights will be spent in a lane with my machine with the little brats!
@uknsaunders - I do that to the quicks anyway! I'm pretty much always about 30cm's out my crease, knocks the bowlers off their lines and makes more things into drives.. plus if you want to 'dig it in' you have to go really short and I just laugh and watch it go over my head (in games). In the nets I just say 'stop wasting my time with that rubbish'
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I make of point of standing yards out of my ground if its just lobbers or trundlers. The net session becomes a bit more useful if you are batting from 15 yards. Also gets up the noses of the trundlers :-)
Haha great idea! I normally just go into Afridi mode and try to dispatch every ball for an imaginary 6
To be fair to the lobbers I mentioned I get on with them both well and they know that they are not great. At least they turn up to nets trying to improve which is more than I can say for a few at my club!
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I come from a club with very little money, so we often share one coach between about 50 odd players. We usually do a team warm up followed by some fielding related drills. Then the remaining amount of time would be spent on a general net session. I think where we are lucky is the expertise our couch provides. Usually he would work with the colts in one or two nets, using a bowling machine and throw downs. He would work on all different things and really push you. I hate people who claim to be a "coach" and I use that term loosley, saying stuff like "you're falling over, that's why you keep getting out" etc etc but never knowing how to correct it. What good is "great ball" to a kid? They don't really know what that means. Our coach would think nothing of stopping a net and working one to one with a player on a certain aspect of their technique. This helped me the most, even of I did miss out on my much loved batting practice.
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It's interesting, seems 2 distinct topics developing.
1. How to improve the intensity of net sessions
2. How to improve individual players technical skills
Then we have the general moans about attitudes to nets. Would be very interesting with the ideas discussed here to develop a 10 week netting plan, based on the requirements above.
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Yes, I would be interested to hear a 10 week netting plan as well. I'm no coach so can't really comment on that. I only go off what I think would improve me (selfish I know sorry :) )
Would it be best to do a 'club net sessions' plan (say for 15 people avg turning up with say 2 nets) and then one for individuals??
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We try to plan our net program so that we build up towards the final stage of our pre-season training - a couple of weeks outside including a friendly match or two! Typically we start off with the batters and bowlers working separately for a couple of weeks on areas they have decided they want to improve on from the previous season or the areas they know they need to work on to get going. Each week though we 'come together' to practice fielding as a squad. After this we then tend to run scenario nets - opening batters against opening bowlers etc which we film to review during the week, then have a bowling machine running and some fielding / technical drills in the spare space. In between the sessions the lads tend to review some of the video footage so they have a purpose to the following session and a goal to achieve!
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Where do people get the time for that? Are all your players under 25?
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And a review during the week - what level of cricket are you talking about here? :o
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ECB Premier League cricket
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ECB Premier League cricket
Which is a slightly different matter!
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Think the principles are still the same though? Start off with a plan in mind, ease your way back in and gradually build up the intensity towards the season? As for the review - it doesnt need to take that long, for some lads they will spend an hour or so looking at their video footage, others just five minutes - whereas other players its as simple as having a beer after and reflecting on how well you hit the ball and how you could strike it better next week? I guess its the old Plan, Do, Review?! There isnt anything new under the sun - just different ways of re-inventing the wheel
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Fair play to you if you have time for all that, sounds a very professional set-up
I play 2 tiers below an ECB Prem and it's difficult enough (for various reasons) to get a couple in my side to turn up to nets consistently and play 20 league games a season. If they were asked to meet up midweek to review their performance they'd think I was having a laugh!
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out of sheer interest. If a club ran 'proper' sessions over the winter (say from November onwards) and say asked for the yearly membership fee upfront if you want to make use of the nets.. Would something like that attract YOU to the club?? Would it attract you to send your child to them etc etc (assume the 'coaching' is decent for the sake of this post).
So each net session lasts for 2 hours, 5 lanes and 3 Bowling machines available.
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Our nets start at the beginning of November. The colts have a level 2 coach and we have two nets. It gets a reasonable turn out and helps engender club spirit in the off season.
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out of sheer interest. If a club ran 'proper' sessions over the winter (say from November onwards) and say asked for the yearly membership fee upfront if you want to make use of the nets.. Would something like that attract YOU to the club?? Would it attract you to send your child to them etc etc (assume the 'coaching' is decent for the sake of this post).
So each net session lasts for 2 hours, 5 lanes and 3 Bowling machines available.
We already have a system at my club where you pay membership fee and match fees up front for an overall saving. I would like some time with a coach though, I know what I need to work on just not quite sure how to best go about it
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The main reason I ask is basically all the clubs in this area don't actually seem to run anything over the winter and nearer the season they appear to just be normal nets. So my thinking is in a year or so I'll be in a position to help my club out financially and rather than give them money I'd like to say set up decent nets. Main aim to improve everyone at the club with a secondary aim of pushing the club as 'the best club to go to improve' and one where youths parents want them to be as it's best for them etc.
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I don't have children yet but in the past I have seen two county youth players leave my previous club at their parents say-so to get some exposure to better coaching, which is understandable
One of these kids is now playing a division above me (and has had runs and wickets) at the age of 14 and I will be very surprised if he doesn't represent the full County side in the future. He has undoubtedly benefited from proper coaching
The other is now 20 and has had a couple of net sessions with us but not played serious cricket for 2 seasons, after quite obviously falling out of love with the game. The last division he played properly in was below the league of the club he left to get better. He is living proof that being pushed hard by parents when young does not always benefit everyone
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no, doesn't work for everyone. I've said before though that I'm not a believer in 'lvl's'. I reckon even up in the ECB prem teams you will have 1 or 2 in each team who actually wouldn't look 'awesome' one or two divisions below etc. All teams have passengers, it's only in the bad times though you work out who the passengers are.
Yes 'pushy parents' are not always the best but I'm thinking it might be a way to improve the general standard of everyone AND help promote more people to join the club etc. Means you should be able to put out more youth teams, more adult teams.. means more people using the bar, paying subs etc etc.
That's the idea anyway. Still only a plan in my head though currently.
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Parents will always want the best for their kids I'm sure, whether they want the coaching or not!
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I'm not that interested in youths though tbh, I'd like to find out the best ways to attract adults in the 20 to 30 yr old bracket. These are the guys who will actually do the business now etc.
Ways to attract them is the priority. What do people look for? What would make you move clubs etc?
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From my experience creating a solid youth set up is far more beneficial in the long term stability of a cricket club. As its mainly a non profit sport an effective youth set up with coaching can pay for itself and give the club a steady stream of playing members for years to come. Attracting settled or unsettled players can be an absolute pain as they either want money or a better role at the club to what they currently have. Also youngsters playing with each other for 3-4 years before they enter men's cricket instantly generates a team spirit in most case anyway.
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I moved clubs after 10 seasons quite simply because I could see a much brighter future on and off the field elswhere. It helped that the club I moved to was my hometown club and historically a bigger club too.
Having structured net sessions will do you no harm atall. All you need then is a good eye for talent and a good sales pitch to get some potential new players to attend ;)
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Hmmm this thread has gone off at all sorts of different tangents I wasn't expecting! Glad it provoked some debate and thanks to those that offered advice :)
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3) Sledging is worse today than it's ever been (he said it's always been there but it's more 'personal and aggressive' now.
oh and the sledging is pathetic, banter between yourselves is fine but why people feel the need to attack me personally I don't know. Sod off and play your own game fellas.
I prefer mind games over direct attacks when I'm sat behind the stumps. 'Has he changed his backlift lads?' - helps to get the batsman thinking about anything but hitting the next ball.
If I receive the personal attacks when batting I normally ignore it, total blank, however if I do respond it's usually along the lines of "you're mistaking me for someone who gives a _____ mate"
Our winter nets start next week, being a batsman it will be nice to face some of our better bowlers for a challenge. But overall I feel I get more benefit out of the bowling machine in the shop, there are plenty of pie checkers at my club, myself included.
Our biggest problem is numbers, we have a general club net on sundays, which is all but a waste of time for the first team in terms of improvement/a challenge. It's a good social meet though and I'm not one for being elitist at all. Being on the committee, we've set a goal to get our 2nd team up the leagues to make the jump from 2's to 1's easier when we need to take a player. They are never going to understand the standard required if none of us are netting with them, which is why i try to always attend. i would say only about half of the first team squad go to these regularly though. And as I said, numbers can be an issue, we lost money on these last year.
We also have 1st team nets on Wednesday evenings. It's a loose term as we usually invite some of the more promising youngsters too, to get a good look at them. The numbers for these are smaller obviously, but higher in terms of a percentage of the people invited.
We generally just have a 'fast' net and a 'slow/spin' net. The 2 batsmen then swap halfway through. Myself, robin and a couple of other senior players try to offer some advice, especially with the kids.
I think most of us regard them as a social meet more than anything, numbers are decent to start with, then drop off a little before basically everyone turns out for the final couple of sessions, trying to get a game in a friendly before the season starts. The problem is retaining interest in the middle period when everyone's got to know each other again but the season isn't quite looming enough to make people think they HAVE to net.
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Completely agree with the mind games Jake, last season me and a couple of lads at slip were commenting on the batsmens gap between bat and pad. 'Oooo big gap there lads' etc etc, and a couple of batsmen got out between bat and pad bowled. I'm not sure if it was the mind games that were working mind :)
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Best thing to say mind games wise is... "Do you breath in or out as the bowler is about to deliver?"
Certainly worked on me once last year, was in the back of my mind as bowler was running in...stumps everywhere
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Best thing to say mind games wise is... "Do you breath in or out as the bowler is about to deliver?"
Certainly worked on me once last year, was in the back of my mind as bowler was running in...stumps everywhere
Best response, 'It's like shooting... I don't...'
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A lot of it depend on the level and committment of your team mates. You can mix and match on the day planning wise, or you can plan to quite a good detail. I would suggest that early on everyone works on their core skills eg batters bat, bowlers bowl, but they should be encouraged to develop a second string, so batters should be able to roll their arms over in a game if required, also how often does a extra 30-40 runs from 9 10 and 11 make a difference in the overall result.
In a two net scenario:
I would have an established batter in one net, with fast bowlers and seam bowlers in that net with a bowler batting in the other against part timers and spinners. Have each player working on two specific skills and be responsible for monitoring that through the net. Important they can assess it post net.
Then just rotate the batters and do the same thing, I reckon 7 mins per net and swap. Key is to keep it sharp and focussed. Too often guys bat too long and loose the intensity.
Am open to helping guys out. HAve played up to first class in NZ and been a pro for clubs in the UK and been in charge of junior coaching at schools and clubs so pretty well versed with net issues. Key is to mix it up try things every now and then to keep it interesting.
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just out of interest. I am currently watching the recording of todays SA vs NZ test.. McCullum does the right foot thing like the OP does. I'd not seen it before and hadn't noticed McCullum doing it till today either. Pointless post I know but thought I'd share. :)
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just out of interest. I am currently watching the recording of todays SA vs NZ test.. McCullum does the right foot thing like the OP does. I'd not seen it before and hadn't noticed McCullum doing it till today either. Pointless post I know but thought I'd share. :)
[/quote
OP?
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Think he meant to post in the thread made by steyn82
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Cheers Spanky, confused me there!
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rubbish.. sorry guys.. yes, it's supposed to be in a different thread. sorry :)
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Digging this up now that nets have started. Ran into an unexpected issue having had a bowling machine at our nets for the first time. All the batters loved it but bowlers complained they didn't get to bowl as much as we were one lane down with the machine in. Anyone else had this? How did you deal with it?
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Digging this up now that nets have started. Ran into an unexpected issue having had a bowling machine at our nets for the first time. All the batters loved it but bowlers complained they didn't get to bowl as much as we were one lane down with the machine in. Anyone else had this? How did you deal with it?
get them bowling to targets and a keeper, much better practice early season than to batters who are trying to slog away the cobwebs anyway.
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Thanks Kulli, personally I agree with that but then I'm not a bowler. Will give that arty and see what the bowlers union have to say on the matter ;)
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Thanks Kulli, personally I agree with that but then I'm not a bowler. Will give that arty and see what the bowlers union have to say on the matter ;)
If that fails get a lifesized cutout of a batsman for them!
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:D