Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Forum News and Suggestions => Old Advertisers => Admin Board => It's Just Cricket => Topic started by: farnham_quins_2 on January 19, 2013, 07:51:55 PM
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So I went to visit Paul at IJC today, mainly just to have a look at all the shiny new bats he has in stock. All I wanted to purchase was a couple of grips.
I didnt really know which grips I wanted, was hoping he had some hybrids though. I played about with some of the bats he had in stock (I'll get to those later) and a couple had really quality hybrid grips on. Looked through the box of grips he has in the shop (which he really needs to sort out so its easier to look through) and found a gold one, same as on the Affinity Carbine.
So I bought that and a black thick spiral one, and the hybrid will be going on my net bat once Ive sanded it down and shoe gooed the toe.
Now on to the bats. I was hugely impressed with the Affinity bats. They look amazing.
Lovely stickers, great shape and nice grains on them too. Picking them up, they felt really well balanced and picked up nicely. Think they were 2'10 and 2'11 but they felt a good couple of ounces lighter to hold.
Then Paul told me to use the mallet on the Spectre. The sound off the middle was great, but the ping, sound, everything off the toe was unreal. Sounds like the middle off most bats. It really was something. I know the toe isnt what you want to using to hit the ball, but if you do then you will get so many extra runs compared to other bats.
I was also very impressed with the Hammer range. Bats had really nice shapes, picked up very well too. Only thing is they are a tad expensive, but I think if you did purchase one you probably would get your money's worth. The Platinums were particularly impressive.
The Carbine really is one of the best bats Ive seen, and I would encourage anyone who has any opinion on the Affinity bats to look at them in person.
Also, just want to say how Friendly and helpful Paul was. First time Ive been to his shop and he was more than happy for me to look at his bats even though I wasnt going to be buying one, and to talk about cricket in general.
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Really tempted to get a Spectre :) But just spent money on Ayrtek helmet and H4L bat.
Might get one anyways.
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Also, just want to say how Friendly and helpful Paul was. First time Ive been to his shop and he was more than happy for me to look at his bats even though I wasnt going to be buying one, and to talk about cricket in general.
I'd agree with this - he really is a lovely, long stick of cricketing knowledge (needs fattening up though!)
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So I went to visit Paul at IJC today, mainly just to have a look at all the shiny new bats he has in stock. All I wanted to purchase was a couple of grips.
I didnt really know which grips I wanted, was hoping he had some hybrids though. I played about with some of the bats he had in stock (I'll get to those later) and a couple had really quality hybrid grips on. Looked through the box of grips he has in the shop (which he really needs to sort out so its easier to look through) and found a gold one, same as on the Affinity Carbine.
So I bought that and a black thick spiral one, and the hybrid will be going on my net bat once Ive sanded it down and shoe gooed the toe.
Now on to the bats. I was hugely impressed with the Affinity bats. They look amazing.
Lovely stickers, great shape and nice grains on them too. Picking them up, they felt really well balanced and picked up nicely. Think they were 2'10 and 2'11 but they felt a good couple of ounces lighter to hold.
Then Paul told me to use the mallet on the Spectre. The sound off the middle was great, but the ping, sound, everything off the toe was unreal. Sounds like the middle off most bats. It really was something. I know the toe isnt what you want to using to hit the ball, but if you do then you will get so many extra runs compared to other bats.
I was also very impressed with the Hammer range. Bats had really nice shapes, picked up very well too. Only thing is they are a tad expensive, but I think if you did purchase one you probably would get your money's worth. The Platinums were particularly impressive.
The Carbine really is one of the best bats Ive seen, and I would encourage anyone who has any opinion on the Affinity bats to look at them in person.
Also, just want to say how Friendly and helpful Paul was. First time Ive been to his shop and he was more than happy for me to look at his bats even though I wasnt going to be buying one, and to talk about cricket in general.
Thanks for this thread, Jamie - good to meet you too! Always welcome to browse the bats, whether you're buying or not. Just a shame Millwall weren't able to produce the goods for you this afternoon!
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not against the mighty clarets
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Thanks for this thread, Jamie - good to meet you too! Always welcome to browse the bats, whether you're buying or not. Just a shame Millwall weren't able to produce the goods for you this afternoon!
Haha yeah I know. Was the worst performance Ive seen all season! Seeing all those bats has kept me from getting too down though. How did Wednesday get on?
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not against the mighty clarets
Not a Burnley fan surely? Didnt go today by any chance? We were truly awful. No play offs for us this seaon
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Haha yeah I know. Was the worst performance Ive seen all season! Seeing all those bats has kept me from getting too down though. How did Wednesday get on?
A bore draw - but a useful point, given that none of the others around us managed to win!
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Better than us though. Id take a bore draw over a miserable 2 nil loss on a cold January afternoon
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A bore draw - but a useful point, given that none of the others around us managed to win!
Paul are you the 2nd member of the Sheffield Wednesday supports club down here in the south?? i thought it was just me.
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Paul are you the 2nd member of the Sheffield Wednesday supports club down here in the south?? i thought it was just me.
A little unexpected that, Chris, but really good to see another Owl on here! Will have to hold that thought and continue this conversation when you visit next week!
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So I went to visit Paul at IJC today, mainly just to have a look at all the shiny new bats he has in stock. All I wanted to purchase was a couple of grips.
I didnt really know which grips I wanted, was hoping he had some hybrids though. I played about with some of the bats he had in stock (I'll get to those later) and a couple had really quality hybrid grips on. Looked through the box of grips he has in the shop (which he really needs to sort out so its easier to look through) and found a gold one, same as on the Affinity Carbine.
So I bought that and a black thick spiral one, and the hybrid will be going on my net bat once Ive sanded it down and shoe gooed the toe.
Now on to the bats. I was hugely impressed with the Affinity bats. They look amazing.
Lovely stickers, great shape and nice grains on them too. Picking them up, they felt really well balanced and picked up nicely. Think they were 2'10 and 2'11 but they felt a good couple of ounces lighter to hold.
Then Paul told me to use the mallet on the Spectre. The sound off the middle was great, but the ping, sound, everything off the toe was unreal. Sounds like the middle off most bats. It really was something. I know the toe isnt what you want to using to hit the ball, but if you do then you will get so many extra runs compared to other bats.
I was also very impressed with the Hammer range. Bats had really nice shapes, picked up very well too. Only thing is they are a tad expensive, but I think if you did purchase one you probably would get your money's worth. The Platinums were particularly impressive.
The Carbine really is one of the best bats Ive seen, and I would encourage anyone who has any opinion on the Affinity bats to look at them in person.
Also, just want to say how Friendly and helpful Paul was. First time Ive been to his shop and he was more than happy for me to look at his bats even though I wasnt going to be buying one, and to talk about cricket in general.
just wanted to make a clarification as in your opening statement you said the hammer bats were a tad bit expensive and that you really liked the hammer bats and the affinity bats..
please note the affinity bats are more expensive than the hammer LE bats.. i just found that small line a bit misleading.
not attacking anyone. just when i red it i got the message that the hammer bats are expensive compared, when thats in fact not the sase..just didnt want anyone thinking affinity bats were cheaper than hammer bats..( or any other bat for that matter )
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Jason, I think he was referring to the Platinum bats mainly, which are more expensive than the Affinitys. He also spent more time admiring the Platinums than the others, to be fair! :)
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yeah, no problems at all, just didnt want people thinking the hammer bats were more expensive as he wasnt clear as to which bats he was talking about in his statement..
as i said, no worries, no attacks, just wanted to clear that up...as the core is in the 259 pounds range and is much cheaper.
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just wanted to make a clarification as in your opening statement you said the hammer bats were a tad bit expensive and that you really liked the hammer bats and the affinity bats..
please note the affinity bats are more expensive than the hammer LE bats.. i just found that small line a bit misleading.
not attacking anyone. just when i red it i got the message that the hammer bats are expensive compared, when thats in fact not the sase..just didnt want anyone thinking affinity bats were cheaper than hammer bats..( or any other bat for that matter )
Yeah as Paul said, I was referring to the Platinums as they are the most similar, should have made that clear.
However, they are probably both too expensive in my eyes. Not really good enough to spend 300+ on one bat. If you do want to then I would say you cant go wrong with either!
As I did say originally the Platinums were very impressive!
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anything over 200 quid for a g1+ bat is ridiculous lol
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Bit of a mad thing to say! Your looking about £150 for the making of a good g1 so anything under 200 I'd say is pretty cheap
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anything over 200 quid for a g1+ bat is ridiculous lol
This is nuts - especially when you consider that there is 20% VAT for retailers to pay and the expences of running a shop. You cannot compare buying a bat from Ryan (which will be lovely) to buying a bat from Paul (also lovely). The overheads are different and to some extent the market is different.
Not many people are lucky enough to have a mate who makes bats as well as Ryan.
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Over £200 is the point at which, no matter what bat I have bought, I suffer pangs of guilt over the cost. At under £200 then mentally I feel like I'm getting a bargain!
I've paid way more than £200 for a bat plenty of times and I'm sure I will do again but it's a magic figure in my head above which I feel like I'm doing something naughty! :D
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Over £200 is the point at which, no matter what bat I have bought, I suffer pangs of guilt over the cost. At under £200 then mentally I feel like I'm getting a bargain!
I've paid way more than £200 for a bat plenty of times and I'm sure I will do again but it's a magic figure in my head above which I feel like I'm doing something naughty! :D
This. :D I think I have bought 3 bats so far over 200. The thrill is great, the after-feeling, not so much... :-[ I feel that a bat is worth what you are prepared to pay for it, sometimes you want to pay more, and at other times, less. I guess it is up to the individual as well to be honest!
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I think simmy is not far off the truth though and it took me a long time to realise.
Yes I get a certain discount at a very good bat maker but I try others and lets be honest
Kippax get the pick of there willow which they supply,many and they sell there top bat in the 200 pound category
So why pay any more 200 pound is perfectly responsible for a top class bat.
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How much would it cost to make that bat, just in raw materials? The £200 bat I mean.
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This is nuts - especially when you consider that there is 20% VAT for retailers to pay and the expences of running a shop. You cannot compare buying a bat from Ryan (which will be lovely) to buying a bat from Paul (also lovely). The overheads are different and to some extent the market is different.
Not many people are lucky enough to have a mate who makes bats as well as Ryan.
Thanks for that, Buzz - it's easy to forget these things. Retailers' bats are always going to be more expensive for the reasons you mentioned, and if we have any interest in staying in business, this is the way it will always be. To put it into perspective, I would never sell a G1+ bat for under £200 - so I guess there's a bit if a difference of opinion here!
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How much would it cost to make that bat, just in raw materials? The £200 bat I mean.
I think that's a bit misleading - maybe like asking Picasso how much his raw materials cost.
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The raw materials would be about £90-100. Factor in say 4 hours work at £10 an hour, you'd be looking at a cost of £130-140 per bat
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At cost a bat fully made can range from 100-160I guess that's a round figure a certain CNc machine will be chugging them out for
I have seen trade prices but it all about what the buyer is willing to buy.
Cleft handle and makers time flat 80 quid not including overheads
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The raw materials would be about £90-100. Factor in say 4 hours work at £10 an hour, you'd be looking at a cost of £130-140 per bat
Herein lies the issue - Ryan might charge £10 per hour but there is no way Andrew Kember would charge that much.
If you work at a consulting or leagal firm - you pay one fee for the juniors and a very different number for the Partners. If you put in a similar multiple for the guarenteed performace from a bat made by a "master craftsman" that is what you are paying your money for.
Hence why it is justifiable for Salix, Newbery, Screaming Cat, Laver and others to charge the prices they do.
How fast someone can climb the ladder is a different question.
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Hold on I have many a bat form master bat makers within your list they have not all be all that and certainly not worth there money some have some haven't
There certainly are no guarantees with any batmaker that it will be worth it there no full proof method with bats
And reading the juniors and seniors part they all have that but do not charge different if the apprentice makes it
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I think that's a bit misleading - maybe like asking Picasso how much his raw materials cost.
I was just trying to build up to what the entire bat would cost to make, to then put a reasonable value on it if you were either a batmaker or a retailer.
That cost will be different depending on whether you were:
1. a willow merchant + bat maker from scratch
2. a bat maker from scratch who buys in clefts
3. a bat maker who buys in part mades
4. a finisher
5. a sticker-upper
and so on
The cost of time, as Buzz says, will again be different, depending on what stage of the bat making ladder you're on.
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What I find amazing is that mass produced bats command a higher price than hand made bats from smaller bat makers. This is a reverse of what you'd usually expect in my opinion, custom furniture is more expensive than Ikea's furniture and rightfully so.
The small hand makers have to try and persuade people to try them instead of mass produced and part of the way in which you persuade someone is with price. True hand makers with the incredible skill that is making a good cricket bat should command a decent price. To me it's logical that a small brand making roughly 200-300 bats will be able to focus on their product greater than larger manufacturers that make 1000's and as a result quality will be more consistent. Yes they are aiming at different markets but they're all vying for the same customers, cricketers.
Some of these words make it sound like it's easy to make cricket bats and I know you don't mean to but it's this perception that annoys me. I've struggled for 15 years teaching myself to make bats, it's difficult to balance and fine tune a cricket bat, to work with the willow and make something beautiful and functional. I love bat making. I made £1 an hour last year making bats for people, I lost money. I see fly by nights pop up and think they can custom make and they're propagating the financial disparity that exists between hand made and mass made by cheapening Pod Shaving. Most people on here appreciate that there are small bat makers but I think we're ignoring the luxury these talented individuals are affording people by charging £240 for their work.
Sorry to anyone offended, I don't mean to but I'm passionate about Pod Shaving and I hope people who take it up want to learn the craft and not make loads of money.
I'll get down from the soapbox now.
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Wouldn't it be easier to take a price list from the lords trade show in sept and see what the cost price is for a bat with a rrp of £200+. Add on 20% VAT and the remainder is margin less expenses. As Buzz said, it's not easy for a retailer to stock a G1+ bat for £200 and don't forget you are getting the luxury of trying each bat out on the premises. If you buy direct or online that's not an option.
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Some of these words make it sound like it's easy to make cricket bats and I know you don't mean to but it's this perception that annoys me. I've struggled for 15 years teaching myself to make bats, it's difficult to balance and fine tune a cricket bat, to work with the willow and make something beautiful and functional. I love bat making. I made £1 an hour last year making bats for people, I lost money. I see fly by nights pop up and think they can custom make and they're propagating the financial disparity that exists between hand made and mass made by cheapening Pod Shaving. Most people on here appreciate that there are small bat makers but I think we're ignoring the luxury these talented individuals are affording people by charging £240 for their work.
I'll get down from the soapbox now.
The finished article is a work of art from where it started, and you shouldn't be forced to give it away for nothing!
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Wouldn't it be easier to take a price list from the lords trade show in sept and see what the cost price is for a bat with a rrp of £200+. Add on 20% VAT and the remainder is margin less expenses. As Buzz said, it's not easy for a retailer to stock a G1+ bat for £200 and don't forget you are getting the luxury of trying each bat out on the premises. If you buy direct or online that's not an option.
Hypothetical example, but realistic one:
Trade price = £55
Add VAT at 20% = £66
RRP = £100 (cannot sell at full RRP)
Selling price = £80 (20% discount = competitive)
Gross profit = £14 if not VAT registered (if VAT registered, this drops to £11.67)
Post out for £6 charge to customer, courier cost £9. Now profit = £11
Take away premises rent, rates, electricity, staff, insurance, royalties for playing the radio, and other things = not worth getting out of bed for
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The luxury of being able to visit a retailer and pick up bats is definitely worth paying a little extra for, especially for your less nerdy cricketer who might know they need a bat but might not know what they want. Something that is rarely an issue on here!
My reservation comes from the oft heard plea that we 'must support our local shops, otherwise they will go out of business' Surely it's up to the business to have a model that allows them to be successful? A business model that relies on the goodwill of people prepared to pay extra to ensure a business survives is possibly not the strongest one in the present marketplace! This is why the more intelligent retailers are investing so heavily in social media, marketing and online presence but of course this has a knock on effect of increasing their costs and making their prices higher! It's vicious circle really. I'm not sure what I would do.....
Certainly don't want to see the end of shops but an obvious answer to this predicament doesn't immediately spring to mind. I'm sure far more intelligent people than me are turning their minds to this as we speak!
So, whilst I fully understand that bats bought from a retailer are going to come at a premium I am unsure whether this business model can survive when we look into the future..... :(
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My personal feeling on this is that the amount of shops that will actually stock a decent amount of bats will drop dramatically over the coming years. You'll have a couple but there won't be one in every big ish town etc.
Unless of course suppliers allow the stocking of more 'home based' shops etc. I know that's something I'm looking into as I wouldn't have to pay rents etc yet would have enough room for 5 cricket nets, shop, changing rooms and showers and a mini bar. Hopefully those sorts of places are the way forward as it will lover the cost to the consumer while allowing hte owner to still turn a profit. Of course, you'll never make millions doing it but not everyone is in it for millions.
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Realistically I just cant justify spending £250+ on a bat, when:
A) you can get great hand made/custom made bats for around £150-£180, especially the deals you might see on this forum (blank bat £168 offer for example)
B) £250 is a lot to invest in a product that you cant really test before you buy (unless youve owned one before or had the opportunity to borrow one)
I think one of the benefits of this forum is that there are so many exciting, hand made English batmakers on here. The downside is its hard to pick one, and we all want to try as many as possible! You can either buy a few bats for under £200 from a few brands and test and learn which you prefer, or stick with one brand and spend more money because you have more faith in a brand youve used before.
For example, I bought a Jester from Black Cat for £150, and the quality of it means im more likely to spend more with them in the future.
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For example, I bought a Jester from Black Cat for £150, and the quality of it means im more likely to spend more with them in the future.
I would imagine most of the brands on want this to be the case.. People to try them, love them and then be repeat custom.
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Its an art that some manage better than others. You get some exceptional customer service in this area (I'd have to single out Matt at Hell 4 Leather here) and you get some less than excellent customer service...
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I would imagine most of the brands on want this to be the case.. People to try them, love them and then be repeat custom.
Exactly, I think its the first hurdle of acquiring new customers which is the challenge for the smaller brands. And thats where social media, online presence, good initial customer service are important. Even just replying to pms and posts on here is a very good way of bringing in new customers