Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: 97notout on February 13, 2013, 09:12:55 PM
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Front page column of todays Cricket paper is an article by Tom Reynolds stating that Steve Harmisson has rubbished Dale Steyns status as the worlds best test bowler insisting Jimmy Anderson is peerless in the modern game.
He goes on to state that he believes Steyn is more of a one trick pony than the England seamer and is adamant that the South African cannot stand comparison with Anderson across all surfaces.
It concludes that "Both of them are fantastic bowlers and are streeets ahead of anyone else in world cricket but my pick would be Jimmy"
"Not because he's English - I just think on a flatter wicket Jimmy can get the ball to do more things than Steyn. It will be a worthy thing for Jimmy to be Englands all-time top wicket taker"
Now I know that people will have different opinions and no one will ever win the debate but what do we reckon?
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I can sort of see Harmy's point, but I would still pick Steyn over Anderson most of the time. His extra pace being the key for me. Having said that, Steyn with Jimmy's swing or Jimmy with Steyn's pace would be the perfect bowler.
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Interestingly Steyn averages 32 in England and 28 in Australia on more 'sporting' wickets compared to 17 in Bangladesh, 19 in India, 18 in the West Indies and 24 in Pakistan.
Steyn still has 4/5 years of his prime to come really whereas Jimmy in in the middle of his Prime at the moment.
Both are class bowlers
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I like Steyn's extra pace and aggression, but Anderson's control, variation and ability to set a batsman up edges it for me. They're both absolute top class though, I wouldn't kick either one down to the 2nd's at my club ;)
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Hmmm....they are different bowlers,Stein is in a purple patch atm.
Both are genuine world class.Anderson has mastered the art of inswing to go with his outswing,Stein can swing it out with mire pace.
Not sure ..the wicket against PAK looked to be prepared for their quicks and to counter ajmal.
On the 1st test wicket that bowling was unplayable early on
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I think I agree with you guys. Both are different bowlers but if you mixed the two.. my god you'd have a bowler!!!!
I think you'd be happy with either bowler.
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we are lucky to be able to watch steyn.
he is the only truly great quick playing at the moment. He is a genuine strike bowler and his strike rate is one of the best of all time. while playing on a load of shirt front tracks.
Anderson is a wonderful bowler. but not in the same class.
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Steyn every day of the week.
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Jimmy is a great bowler and in swinging conditions, almost unplayable.
But the difference in my view, is that Steyn is a superb bowler in nearly every condition.
I'm with others on here - Steyn would be my first pick!!!! He's totally World class!
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Steyn for sure. Clearly the best in the world right now.
Not that Anderson isn't very good, but I think Steyn is a class above.
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Dale Steyn, he is simply world best fast bowler and sits along greats like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Glenn McGrath et cetra.
Moreover, compared to James Anderson he is more consistent in his past records.
Having said that its treat to watch both of them in full flow especially when 'good' fast bowlers are scarce.
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I can't see Anderson being picked before Steyn in any side. Harmy wide of the mark again......... ;)
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Would defiantly have Steyn over Anderson every time, both are great but just looking at Steyn's records 35 more wickets in 14 less test matches and a much better average and strike rate.
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Tougher call than I would have at first thought, but I would on balance go for Steyn; I recognise that Jimmikins has a bit more variety in his ability to swing the ball, Steyn not really having an inswinger worthy of the name, but Steyn bowls at a greater pace and has a really amazxing ability to maintain, even increase, his pace through a long day which Anderson lacks. As regards the ability of Anderson to vary things on a flat deck (or a very slow one) - yes, he has some variety, though he is no Matthew Hoggard in that regard, just someone who has learned a few old pro's tricks. Steyn does not as yet need them - a flat deck at 90+ is still 90+...
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Steyn, I think his a better bowler
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Definitely Steyn he's lethal!
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I think we're agreed they're the top two in the world at the moment.
I'd pick Steyn for everywhere bar England and New Zealand, where I think Anderson would be more dangerous.
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Steyn ...every day most definitely, attacking , fast genuine wicket taking bowler.
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I'd like to see this SA attack in India and the sub continent, see how they would get on without a top spinner.
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Deluded Englishman Harmison talking rubbish again.
Harmison should remember he will all ways be a laughing stock for bowling deliveries to 2nd slip.
Anderson isn't anyway near Steyn.
Steyn is by miles the best bowler in the world
Anderson averages 30. Hardly world class. He had a couple of decent years.
Steyn's career has been fantastic.
Steyn is an all time great.
Anderson isn't.
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I'd like to see this SA attack in India and the sub continent, see how they would get on without a top spinner.
We have drawn 3 consecutive series in India without a 'top spinner'
West Indies of the 80s didn't need a top class spinner.
Why should the Proteas be any different?
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I'd like to see this SA attack in India and the sub continent, see how they would get on without a top spinner.
I'd dread to think what the Proteas would do to India at the moment, it would be an absolute blood bath. A top 6 who can't play the short ball and average bowlers who cannot bowl consistently. One sided would be an understatement
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Deluded Englishman Harmison talking rubbish again.
Harmison should remember he will all ways be a laughing stock for bowling deliveries to 2nd slip.
Anderson isn't anyway near Steyn.
Steyn is by miles the best bowler in the world
Anderson averages 30. Hardly world class. He had a couple of decent years.
Steyn's career has been fantastic.
Steyn is an all time great.
Anderson isn't.
Nice balanced post this ^ :D
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Steyn for me, his pace gives him the edge over Anderson. In swinging conditions you would obviously go with Anderson though.
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most of us(english supporters) acknowledge Steyn is top class at the moment and the Proteus have an awesome pace attack but Harmison is far from deluded,he got to number 1 in the world(briefly yes) but that status don't come from the sweet shop.He was genuinely quick and on his day unplayable,when it was'nt his day it could go all over the shop.Anderson is world class and,same as Steyn,has done it on batter friendly pitches unlike the old days....
Some of us remember Devon Malcolm destroying a frightened South Africa team with 9 for a few years ago.
The only delusion there was SA thinking you can hit the ball at square leg :)
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Gotta admit, I've never quite understood the biased, one-eyed opinions; Harmison's not some amateur or hack who doesn't know the game, he's forgotten far more than most of us will ever know.
You're far more likely to be listened to if you offer a balanced opinion. Nothing wrong with favouring your local guy, but let us know why; after all, you know his capabilities far more than those from different nations, but be prepared to listen to and accept differing opinions, such as Anderson's qualities as an undoubted top-class swing bowler who's also done it across different continents. Otherwise we descend to the level of football fans ( ;)) - totally tribal and one-eyed and ranty shouty...
It's a great thread which deserves a reasoned debate ;)
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Gotta admit, I've never quite understood the biased, one-eyed opinions; Harmison's not some amateur or hack who doesn't know the game, he's forgotten far more than most of us will ever know.
You're far more likely to be listened to if you offer a balanced opinion. Nothing wrong with favouring your local guy, but let us know why; after all, you know his capabilities far more than those from different nations, but be prepared to listen to and accept differing opinions, such as Anderson's qualities as an undoubted top-class swing bowler who's also done it across different continents. Otherwise we descend to the level of football fans ( ;)) - totally tribal and one-eyed and ranty shouty...
It's a great thread which deserves a reasoned debate ;)
Care to explain where Anderson has shown he's capable of being a world class swing in all continents?
Anderson averages nearly 36 in Australia. Nothing world class there.
Averages nearly 37 in NZ, certainly not world class
Averages nearly 38 in SA, yep you guess it not very world class
Averages nearly 40 in the Carribean, certainly not world class.
Averages 40 in SL. Not world class.
So apart from in England, Anderson averages 27 and India average of a shade below 30, Anderson is the furthest from being world class.
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The real comparison would be Anderson vs Johnson.
Can be destructive on their day, but not a great as Steyn.
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Calm down Gerry its clear you feel Steyn is far superiour
Andersons early career stats lets him down when it comes to his average
over the last few years his bowling has developed massively and he's has become more consistent and moved closer to being on Steyn's level
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Care to explain where Anderson has shown he's capable of being a world class swing in all continents?
Anderson averages nearly 36 in Australia. Nothing world class there.
Averages nearly 37 in NZ, certainly not world class
Averages nearly 38 in SA, yep you guess it not very world class
Averages nearly 40 in the Carribean, certainly not world class.
Averages 40 in SL. Not world class.
So apart from in England, Anderson averages 27 and India average of a shade below 30, Anderson is the furthest from being world class.
Gerry, see where you've gone with that, and I wasn't entirely clear - yes, Anderson is a top class swing bowler, but he's performed generally well in all conditions (not least in India, last series, etc).
As one of your compatriots pointed out to me in a different post some time ago, stats ain't everything, it's the game situation at the time. Anderson has won - or significantly impacted - on many tests that England have won.
I'm not saying he's better than Steyn, or that he's world class - I think he's probably number 2 in a list of current test pace bowlers and that Steyn is number 1. But, in swing conditions in England and New Zealand I'd pick him over Steyn. Give me Steyn everywhere else and I'm happy. In short, I'm not disagreeing with you, just not appreciating the ranty, biased tones and certainly not the sarcasm.
But, hey, thanks for going on cricinfo and doing your research, how's all that free time working out for you? ;)
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Gerry, see where you've gone with that, and I wasn't entirely clear - yes, Anderson is a top class swing bowler, but he's performed generally well in all conditions (not least in India, last series, etc).
As one of your compatriots pointed out to me in a different post some time ago, stats ain't everything, it's the game situation at the time. Anderson has won - or significantly impacted - on many tests that England have won.
I'm not saying he's better than Steyn, or that he's world class - I think he's probably number 2 in a list of current test pace bowlers and that Steyn is number 1. But, in swing conditions in England and New Zealand I'd pick him over Steyn. Give me Steyn everywhere else and I'm happy. In short, I'm not disagreeing with you, just not appreciating the ranty, biased tones and certainly not the sarcasm.
But, hey, thanks for going on cricinfo and doing your research, how's all that free time working out for you? ;)
Nothing to do with spare time.
South African cricketers don't get the correct respect.
Whether it be Steyn, Kallis or Smith.
There's always a downplaying of the great achievements Proteas players have achieved.
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Calm down Gerry its clear you feel Steyn is far superiour
Andersons early career stats lets him down when it comes to his average
over the last few years his bowling has developed massively and he's has become more consistent and moved closer to being on Steyn's level
I've on looking at the stats from 2010 onwards, this was when Anderson reached 'Steyn's level'
In 33 Tests Anderson has taken 140 wickets @ 25.67. With 5 5WHs and 1 10WH.
Steyn played 30 Tests taking 152 wickets @ 21.22. With 10 5WHs and 2 10WHs.
It's closer for Anderson, but Steyn's improvement is increasing all the time.
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Nothing to do with spare time.
South African cricketers don't get the correct respect.
Whether it be Steyn, Kallis or Smith.
There's always a downplaying of the great achievements Proteas players have achieved.
In the past yes, when the Apartheid and the Cronje incidents overshadowed some brilliant cricketers. Not anymore tho, Kallis is widely regarded as the best all rounder to ever play the game bar Sobers, he is comfortably sitting in that 'Legend' club now. Smith's 100 tests as Captain can only be respected and proof that stability at the top level of any sport is the key to success. Steyn will eclipse Mcgraths 563 wickets in my opinion and be heralded as the best that's ever lived. Watching him maul NZ and Pakistan is like watching Messi at times, Just unplayable.
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not sure about the lack of respect
I've got bags of time for Kallis and Steyn, love to watch them, Kallis the greatest ever in my opinion
Admire Smith for his grit and determination and a great leader
You proved me right though, Anderson has got closer to Steyn, never will be as good, but has bridged the gap slightly
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Gerry, I can see where you're coming from and can understand your frustration. In another thread, I listed Kallis as the most under-rated player in cricket. Smith isn't pretty to watch but he's a top, top quality batsman and one of the best captains in Test history. I'm a Warwickshire fan and remember fondly watching Allan Donald for the Bears...
I agree that Steyn is the undoubted number one bowler in the world and that he will eclipse McGrath's test total. We are agreeing - I think - on all points.
Anderson will never be as good as Steyn, but he does deserve to be recognised - at present - as one of the world's best.
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Anderson has a slightly better economy. Does this mean that Anderson is putting on more pressure at one end?
Both great bowlers and bring a lot to the table. I would have Jimmy, just because of the Lancs connection (not that he will play a game for them in the next few years).
But there has to be a reason why Steyn is number one, and that is wickets.
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South African cricketers don't get the correct respect.
Whether it be Steyn, Kallis or Smith.
What a crock of ****. You'd be hard pressed to find people who DON'T have respect for the SA cricketers. Kallis is the greatest player I've seen IMHO, and watching Steyn and Amla at Taunton last summer was pure joy. I've always though Smith as an ugly player but as a leader of men, tactical awareness and ability to score runs he's up there with the best to have played the game.
I think you may have the following problem…
(http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=30990&d=1354281807)
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Steyn and agree with 100 per cent of what buzz said earlier..
Your right to a degree Garry but this is England and we will the next football world cup.
Most on here i suspect admire talent no matter where there from.
Brad Hodge is my favourite player would he get a game for South Africa
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Hmmm Geraldo, I'm going to agree with the others on here -
Smith
Amla
Kallis
none of them amazing to watch - but fantastic cricketers whom I respect greatly and wish we had in our side.
Paul Harris on the other hand - you can have him!
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Mr Fattus if you don't mind me disagreeing with you, but Amla is wonderful to watch.
As is AB de Villiars...
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Steyn all day long! More pace and more late swing. Harmy is talking rubbish once again. Has he forgotten the last time Steyn toured India and was more destructive than Jimmy.
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Steyn for me!
Being a UK based forum I can imagine the love for Anders but this is how I saw it.
Anderson used to be the STB - Swing track bully! lol
He was a gun when the ball was swinging - he had tough times when the conditions didnt suit him- whether it was Australia (he chucked some serious pies on previous tours lol) or the flat Subcontinent.
Having said that last 2-3 years has become a force to be reckoned with. He is calm when things arent going his way and focuses on bowling good lengths and using scrambled seam wisely rather than getting frustrated. He is bowling much better to the lefties as well. Even Graeme Smith has bullied him around. Things are much different now.
Also, Steyn has always been consistent top performer. Can be intimidating even if its not swinging as much. Being a Genuine Fast bowler he goes around the stumps and starts focusing on the body and the batsmen are jumping all over.
To summarise, Steyn has always been top and Jimmy has been the same in the last 2-3 years. So any doubts on who is better?
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I don't think anyone on here really disagrees that Steyn is the better bowler. Certainly, everyone going to see the test series last summer wanted to see Steyn bowl! There aren't many proper quicks in the game at the moment, and he adds excitement.
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I don't think anyone on here really disagrees that Steyn is the better bowler. Certainly, everyone going to see the test series last summer wanted to see Steyn bowl! There aren't many proper quicks in the game at the moment, and he adds excitement.
Morkel too...love seeing a good quick making batsmen jump about. Hence why i love watching the likes of tait, best and johnson!
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Nothing to do with spare time.
South African cricketers don't get the correct respect.
Whether it be Steyn, Kallis or Smith.
There's always a downplaying of the great achievements Proteas players have achieved.
I think you're wrong fella. I don't know anyone who went to the Test series last year (Eng vs SA) who actually wasn't just going to watch Amla, Kallis, AB, Steyn and Morkal. Those guys are pretty much as good as it gets. Amla is a machine, Kallis is a legend and any team would have him. AB will become a bigger legend than Gilchrist if he continues and Steyn as others have said could become the best bowler ever. Morkal is his partner in crime.
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I think you're wrong fella. I don't know anyone who went to the Test series last year (Eng vs SA) who actually wasn't just going to watch Amla, Kallis, AB, Steyn and Morkal. Those guys are pretty much as good as it gets. Amla is a machine, Kallis is a legend and any team would have him. AB will become a bigger legend than Gilchrist if he continues and Steyn as others have said could become the best bowler ever. Morkal is his partner in crime.
I'm a big fan of Morne Morkel but I feel he's never fulfilled his huge potential
He's to hot and cold.
With Marchant de Lange returning to full fitness, he bowls 150-155kph but most importantly pitches up more, Morne could lose his place in thr side.
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I would to point out when I say that Proteas players achievements get downplayed I'd the comparisons with players of the same bracket
Kallis for example is called boring, yet Dravid is deemed technically sound. How does that work? Dravid is a boring as they come.
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Never heard him referred to as boring :s
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Is it because these comments are coming from SA commentators? I've frequently heard Kallis referred to as technically sound ???
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Kallis for example is called boring, yet Dravid is deemed technically sound. How does that work? Dravid is a boring as they come.
Both are great players. Both got good techniques and both have had to play the rescuer role tons of times for their respective teams. Apart from the short patch at the end of his career when he lacked form Dravid wasnt boring either.
However Players like Katich, G.Smith, Chanderpaul can be boring to watch- Even Captain Cook despite all the runs he gets lacks that extra grace. Again, personal opinion, so will differ with everyone else.
Who do y'all find boring?
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I would to point out when I say that Proteas players achievements get downplayed I'd the comparisons with players of the same bracket
Kallis for example is called boring, yet Dravid is deemed technically sound. How does that work? Dravid is a boring as they come.
If anything Dravid was more boring than Kallis, Dravid went years without finding gaps but was still a great player.