Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: Number4 on February 22, 2013, 06:29:14 AM
-
Australia cruise to victory over a toothless England Lions outfit at Bellerive
Headline as per the Herald Sun...
What's the story guys?.. Where are all these up and coming players English young guns???
Comments???
-
already fast tracked into the full squads...
-
Need to wheel in a few of the SA under 19's who have been destroying us this week, then we'll be all good.
-
You only ever learn from defeat in life!! This will do them good
-
Australia cruise to victory over a toothless England Lions outfit at Bellerive
Headline as per the Herald Sun...
What's the story guys?.. Where are all these up and coming players English young guns???
Comments???
Well a fair few have highlighted that actually England are far from flush with top talent. We are not quite as flush as some seem to think. 'Currently' in a better place than Australia though overall :)
-
Well a fair few have highlighted that actually England are far from flush with top talent. We are not quite as flush as some seem to think. 'Currently' in a better place than Australia though overall :)
Aus A probably don't agree haha :D
-
Oh did I forget to mention the Aussie women now have 6 world cups...
Come on guys give me a break I have to take glory whenever I can get it at the moment :D :D :D
-
I got loads of stick at work when the first Aus vs WI womens game was played. If WI won it was them and Australia in the final. If Aus won it was Aus vs England. I called it right at the start that Aus would lose (shock horror) that game to ensure they played WI in the final.
Now, that's not to say the English would have won. More because the English played badly all tournament (or at least nowhere near their best) so had the potential to improve. WI had over achieved with Dottin so given the choice you'd always take the over achievers who rely on two girls to fire over a team with potenital.
Shock horror Aus dominated a final.
As for the A sides.. who cares about them. It's all about the Test teams :)
-
The recent performances by the Lions are worrying, particularly given we couldn't even beat the state sides and the recent dismissals of Coles and Stokes. Given a lot of these players have been mentioned in dispatches around senior sides and we can't even complain about unfamiliar conditions, it does question England's strength in depths. Still, at least we don't have Moises Henriques coming in at number 7 in a Test - now that does show a real lack of a talent pool.
-
or Mitchell Johnson leading the bowling attack :)
But yes, I am not one of these who thinks it's all rosy in England's Cricketing future. I'm still waiting for Swann/Monty replacements. Where is the next Anderson? Flintoff?. We seem to have no one currently up to test standard for opening or at 3.
Yes Root may become that but then who's going to take over from KP. Bairstow I like but still to be convinced that he's got the talent long term.
As for England Lions. I'd say the problem is that with the systems they have in place to produce talent. For every Root/Taylor/Bairstow you'll get 5 or 6 big heads coming though who have talent but think 'I've cracked it'. it seems coles etc are just some. Sack them off and kick them in the guts, leave them to rot for a few years in county cricket. Petulant over paid children.
-
or Mitchell Johnson leading the bowling attack :)
But yes, I am not one of these who thinks it's all rosy in England's Cricketing future. I'm still waiting for Swann/Monty replacements. Where is the next Anderson? Flintoff?. We seem to have no one currently up to test standard for opening or at 3.
Yes Root may become that but then who's going to take over from KP. Bairstow I like but still to be convinced that he's got the talent long term.
As for England Lions. I'd say the problem is that with the systems they have in place to produce talent. For every Root/Taylor/Bairstow you'll get 5 or 6 big heads coming though who have talent but think 'I've cracked it'. it seems coles etc are just some. Sack them off and kick them in the guts, leave them to rot for a few years in county cricket. Petulant over paid children.
Isn't this basically what happened to Swann?
-
There are still a few older county pro's out there who could follow the example set by Compton and force their way into international colours through sheer weight of runs / wickets. It doesn't always need to be youth for the sake of youth. Not every youngster will take to international cricket like a duck to water as Root has done. Swanny is the obvious example of this,
-
Isn't thin basically what happened to Swann?
yes. And he was sent packing for years to (sort of ) grow up. He was given the kick in the guts so to speak so do the same now.
-
Tymal mills for raw pace, ive faced him and hes fast
-
Only player who has performed consistently is James Taylor. Its worrying considering the amount of talent we are supposed to have :(.
-
Lets be honest there is no real fringe bowlers playing in these games. No Harris, Onions, Tremlett, Panesar.
Overton and Rikki Clarke come on people
-
The current England Lions is about a 3rd/4th XI. Not representative of the team that plays against touring teams in the summer, except for James Taylor.
-
Lets be honest there is no real fringe bowlers playing in these games. No Harris, Onions, Tremlett, Panesar.
Overton and Rikki Clarke come on people
You are correct. It seems to be a youngsters team rather than 'second best xi'. Aus have some youth, but more mid 20's+ players. Still, Taylor is the only one to stand up and be counted though. Meaker is a little disappointing, I thought he'd be quite good. His stats for the Lions recently is pretty poor.
-
I'm not too worried by any of the Lions results. They're there to learn first and foremost and I imagine that they have learnt a lot about Australian conditions and about themselves. My big worry is the discipline amongst this touring party. Coles and Stokes sent home? That's appalling! I wouldn't be surprised if some heads roll amongst the backroom staff after this. Can you imagine Andy Flower allowing this to happen on a full England tour?
As for Coles and Stokes I have no sympathy. Both have impressed me as players over the last couple of seasons but if that is their attitude to playing for England then leave them in County Cricket until they grow up....
-
Both Coles and Stokes have apologised for their actions.
-
Both Coles and Stokes have apologised for their actions.
They couldn't really not do so if they wanted to continue to have any England aspirations.
-
Coles will never make it for the full England side but shame to see Stokes wasting his talent. Not his first indiscretion either, so he really needs to buckle down and have a good 2013 for Durham.
-
Oh please, stop crying lads!!!
We all know that whatever shortfalls you have when the current crop retire will be plugged by lads currently plying their trade on the High Veldt with Afrikaans as their first language who will be examined with a fine tooth and comb by genealogists searching for a speck of British DNA in the lads ancestry.
The ECCB have talent scouts permanently stationed in Cape Town and Johannesburg ready to rape and pillage the Saffer left overs for the glory of the British Empire XI.
Fear not lads, some young Saffer you have never even heard of yet will save you!
-
In all seriousness, the Overton brothers are so overrated as to be laughable.
They both need to lose about 20 kilos each before anyone can take them seriously.
Reece Topley impressed me during the U19 WC - so he is in the wings at least.
The batting looked extremely brittle in Oz during that tournament though. The big shot Bell-Drummond didn't impress me at all.
-
Haha welcome Vic
-
Haha welcome Vic
I love having a joke Foury - as ya know!
That Reece Topley though, sheesh he is going to be good! :(
-
I love having a joke Foury - as ya know!
That Reece Topley though, sheesh he is going to be good! :(
I was quite disappointed in Hales to be honest
-
What do make of Joe Burns Vic?
Looks a class act doesn't he?
-
Vic what are your views on the Pakistan-born (and raised) leg-spinner Fawad who by all accounts is going to be fast-tracked through citizenship qualification in order to make him available to the Australian selectors?
I think it's about time you accepted that all nations in all sports will do whatever they can to get the best possible side out on the field. It's 2013 and it's happening, deal with it :D
-
Vic what are your views on the Pakistan-born (and raised) leg-spinner Fawad who by all accounts is going to be fast-tracked through citizenship qualification in order to make him available to the Australian selectors?
I think it's about time you accepted that all nations in all sports will do whatever they can to get the best possible side out on the field. It's 2013 and it's happening, deal with it :D
Doping is happening in 2013.. .Doesn't mean you should 'deal with it'.
Steroids is happening in 2013... Doesn't mean you should 'deal with it'.
Just because things are happening for financial/being the best reasons doesn't make it right. If someone is born in place A but grows up etc in Place B then I can see why you might want to play for Place B BUT when you are born and bred in Place A but are choosing to play for Place B for financial reasons (which this will be) then that's just plain wrong.
PS. You don't have to waste your time asking about KP, Trott etc. I think they are South African so shouldn't have played for England. (even though as they are now I want them to do well!)
-
Doping is illegal. Players qualifying for nations they aren't born in isn't
Pretty stupid comparison
-
Doping is illegal. Players qualifying for nations they aren't born in isn't
Pretty stupid comparison
yeah agreed.
-
Doping is illegal. Players qualifying for nations they aren't born in isn't
Pretty stupid comparison
Ok so claiming catches when you know they are not out?? Should you just 'deal with it' or look to stamp out cheating?
How about appealing for LBW's when everyone know's it's not out.. Seems to be accepted that it's ok to appeal no matter what when really you should only appeal when you actually think it's out. Rather than just appeal in the hope of applying pressure.
How about 'banter' that goes into the personal abuse zone yet isn't picked up by the umpires.. Should you just 'deal with it' or should it be something that doesn't happen??
Lots of reasons if you really want them but surely you got the point of the opinion without going all technically correct over it.
-
Ok so claiming catches when you know they are not out?? Should you just 'deal with it' or look to stamp out cheating?
How about appealing for LBW's when everyone know's it's not out.. Seems to be accepted that it's ok to appeal no matter what when really you should only appeal when you actually think it's out. Rather than just appeal in the hope of applying pressure.
How about 'banter' that goes into the personal abuse zone yet isn't picked up by the umpires.. Should you just 'deal with it' or should it be something that doesn't happen??
Lots of reasons if you really want them but surely you got the point of the opinion without going all technically correct over it.
I don't see how any one of those points is related to the point I made
I have never said that I disagree with Vic, I just accept that its happening, has always happened and will continue to happen long into the future. England and Lions rugby players have been battered for many years by Pacific Islanders playing for adopted countries
And I am genuinely interested to hear Vics views on the possibility of Fawad Ahmed playing for Australia, maybe as soon as this summers Ashes!
-
Yeah Alba, don't whatever you do get technical again!!
Pakistan and Portugal are the Aussies scouting grounds as we've got the South African rejects locked down and the New Zealanders have jumped on the bandwagon with Van Wyk, Ronchi and Brownlie. Get over it, it's a small world.
-
Unlike Usman Khawaja who has grown up in Oz and has an Aussie accent, Fawad is a different case.
Personally, I am not happy about him being fast tracked into the team...it smacks of the ECCB policy of doing anything to win.
However, as some have pointed out, it is now a small world, so I better get used to it.
-
What do make of Joe Burns Vic?
Looks a class act doesn't he?
Joe Burns is one of the best young talents coming through.
The other one I like is Nic Maddinson, but he seems to be in a bit of a trough right now.
-
Vic what has happened to Tim Paine? Seems to have become the forgotten man. Is he still having injury problems?
I thought he had huge potential a few years back, made some runs V England and kept tidily enough
-
Unlike football, it's not easy to play for your country at the very highest level. I have sympathy for outstanding players who feel the need to change countries. In the current England test team we only have 2 guys born and trained in SA. Both moved because they felt they wouldn't get the chance to play for SA. Nothing wrong with that if they are 100% committed to England, both on and off the pitch (which they are). It's also a good thing for NZ, let's face they need to a bit of bolstering. Likewise if Ireland eventually get test status then a few saffas moving to Dublin isn't a bad thing if it strengthens a weak team, I'd also welcome Rankin and Morgan going back to Ireland. Test cricket is the winner if all the best players are allowed to play. That can't be a bad thing, if everybody knows the rules for qualification. I don't think anybody goes out to poach players, though the practise of Aus fast tracking a visa application seems a bit dubious. At least in England the rules are set and have in fact been tightened, nobody gets a free pass now. I would like to just see all countries play by the same rules.
-
Vic what has happened to Tim Paine? Seems to have become the forgotten man. Is he still having injury problems?
I thought he had huge potential a few years back, made some runs V England and kept tidily enough
Tim Paine is light years ahead of Wade in terms of glove work.
As a batsman, Wade is only slightly better.
Paine's "sliding doors" moment came when he was selected for a meaningless "All Stars T20" game only weeks before the 2010/11 Ashes where Dirk Nannes broke his finger with a brute of a ball.
So badly broken that he missed two years because of it. Has only come back this last summer - but his horse has bolted now that Wade is the incumbent.
Sad victim of CA obsession in meaningless T20 fixtures.
-
You'd think in their current predicament CA would be trying to look after their most talented players. He's not out in the cold yet surely, he can't be that old
I remain to be convinced by Wade, from his innings I've seen he looks capable but his technique is far from water-tight. Whether he goes the way of Matt Prior or Geraint Jones only time will tell
Other than Taylor and Ballance and possibly Clarke the lions have hugely under-performed in this series, hopefully some lessons have been learned
-
the thought of Wade at 6 for aussies still has me in stitches.
-
though his medium pace looked better than some!
-
Hard to see any positives coming out of the Lions tour; let's be honest, they've been smashed out of sight in most of the marches (even the warm ups against Victoria). Taylor has already played for the full test side, so not much to learn from him doing OK, and let's be honest, what does it matter to the England setup whether Rikki Clarke has a good tour or not? Add in the disciplinary issues, and you've got a miserable picture that needs a major autopsy.
-
It's a shame because the Lions tour of the last few years have generally been heralded as a success and have led to players making the step up to full international honours. Sometimes you learn the most in a defeat though, so in that regard it's still been a good learning experience for all involved.
Great experience for Ben Foakes also, who I hear is meant to have a very bright future.
-
Sometime when a team has been repeatedly thrashed, it gives them a wake up call as to what is expected.
The mentally strong will react positively (think the England Rugby Tour of Hell all those years ago - lots of those players became world cup winners).
The weak won't play again.
Brutal, but it will be interesting to see the reaction of the players.
-
Seems like a lot of them saw this tour as a bit of a jolly. Even jimmy Taylor spent most of his time tweeting pictures of himself on sightseeing tours etc.
I'd be thoroughly embarrassed and nowhere near twitter if I was in his shoes.
-
Seems like a lot of them saw this tour as a bit of a jolly. Even jimmy Taylor spent most of his time tweeting pictures of himself on sightseeing tours etc.
I'd be thoroughly embarrassed and nowhere near twitter if I was in his shoes.
Easy to judge sat at home in the UK. Posting pictures on a social-networking site is hardly crime of the century. I doubt sight-seeing on days off was against the wishes of the management. Seeing different parts of the world when your not working is not illegal and happens on full tours so lets nip that criticism in the bud
Boozing is not acceptable and was punished
As Buzz has said getting thrashed is often the motivation for sportsmen to push themselves to greatness - Alan Border, Roy Keane and Lawrence Dallaglio are 3 off the top of my head I can recall attributing dark days to their future successes. Lets hope it has the same sort of effects on 1 or 2 of this Lions squad
-
Easy to judge sat at home in the UK. Posting pictures on a social-networking site is hardly crime of the century. I doubt sight-seeing on days off was against the wishes of the management. Seeing different parts of the world when your not working is not illegal and happens on full tours so lets nip that criticism in the bud
Boozing is not acceptable and was punished
As Buzz has said getting thrashed is often the motivation for sportsmen to push themselves to greatness - Alan Border, Roy Keane and Lawrence Dallaglio are 3 off the top of my head I can recall attributing dark days to their future successes. Lets hope it has the same sort of effects on 1 or 2 of this Lions squad
I'd be in the nets or reviewing video after getting my ass handed to me, especially if i was someone like Taylor who has already played a few games at international level. If i did go on a pre-arranged tour/sightseeing event,i wouldn't be tweeting about it.
-
You might but not everyone can work that way, some mentalities need to forget about things in order to focus on the next game/training session which is fair enough. As for the tweeting who really cares? If people like James Taylor didn't put their day-to-day activities online Twitter users like yourself would have very little to read. These are lads not machines, they need to live a life aswell
-
Fair points. I just get the sense that this entire tour was seen as a jolly
-
Does rather look that way; an odd looking Lions squad too if you ask me. Fair play to Australia though, they sent out their strongest second side and seem to have played very well (though it is probably the only thing they will manage to beat us in this year!)
-
I'd be in the nets or reviewing video after getting my ass handed to me, especially if i was someone like Taylor who has already played a few games at international level. If i did go on a pre-arranged tour/sightseeing event,i wouldn't be tweeting about it.
I'd be doing the same as Vitas. If you get whopped (and not just 'one of the those days whoopped!) then get in those nets and get working on the failings as to continually get whoopped means there are plenty to work on. Plus, these guys are getting paid to play so going out there and getting hammered game in game out, then getting drunk and having paid for jolly's (which if they are team outings they will be!) is not really on. Make the 'jolly's' something ot be earned by winning, not just a given.
Australia seemed to do it right, they put out there second best team and won. Fair play. Hopefully the England set up learn from it or is changed.
-
I agree with the theory but presumably they have been allowed these trips by the management
Perhaps you have to question the coaches as much as the players if they are under-prepared
-
You'd think after what happened to trescothick overseas they would be encouraged to experience what goes on outside of their hotel rooms. Overkill and over training can be just as bad also.
-
a very valid point - the management line should be to encourage players to develop as individuals as well as as cricketers.
-
Also all of these guys are exceptional cricketers as they play at the elite level in this country, it's all about being in the right mindset mentally to execute that talent when you need to. Any top level sport is about what goes on between the ears.