Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: Buzz on February 26, 2013, 12:00:26 PM
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What are people's views on having a pin knot in the playing area of a bat.
Personally I am not a fan and think they impact performance especially horizontally along the line of the knot - but I suspect others may have a different view.
Also, I thought a pin knot automatically meant the bat was a G3 on wrights grading, but it appears some firms don't agree.
What are people's experiences with them? This is different from graping which I think can help performance...
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I'm not a fan of pin knots either Buzz and you are raising that ugly issue of grading again.
When someone grades on looks and others grade on "performance" it's hard to get consistency in grading... Would be much better if all bats were graded on performance only.. But then no-one would sell/buy the lower grade bats.
Don't get me started on grading..haha
Pin Knots a no no for me as I believe performance is effected
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What are pin knots...? (excuse my ignorance)
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Ok - I hope Steve wont mind me pinching his picture...
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/Stevemsr/SAM_4669_zps062a255a.jpg?t=1361832599)
in the middle bat in the middle of the blade we see a pin knot.
There is also graping of the grain above and below the knot
I hope that helps, it is something to do with a growth in the willow, I think.
I suspect the willow growers on here will know more!!
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as long as the main hitting area is clean, they dont matter imo.
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Wrights grading is a pin knot on the edge can be grade 1, pin knot in the middle grade 3. Never had a pin knot in the middle. Do they feel harder buzz?
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as long as the main hitting area is clean, they dont matter imo.
But what if they are in the playing area as Buzz asked?
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What is the difference between a pin knot and a butterfly stain, as people seem to "like" or certainly be less worried about a butterfly stain than a pin knot?
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Ah ok, pin knots. I thought they were some kind of pins you insert into the bat...this makes more sense.
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Gary @ Choice mentioned this.
If I recall the pin knot is harder and you will get a different type of performance.
Some players feel they deaden the performance (no spring), but others like them as they will give a longer lasting blade and over time will give good performance.
Players in the 60's and 70's used to like them apparently. But that was probable as they only bad 1 bat per season!
Gary rattled through the explanation quickly, but that was the essence.
Personally, I'd go for a clean face.
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think gary was on about a butterfly stain mate not a pin knott? :)
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JS Wrights say:
“Butterfly Stain”, so called as it resembles the body and wings of a butterfly. It is either attributed to the tree being of a hybrid of English Cricket Bat Willow or some in the industry believe it is the same variety and the marks are caused by slight damage to the tree from pruning. Those as J.S Wright feel the former is more likely as generally the weight of the cleft is heavier which indicates a different species. However clefts with this are very strong and play well, very unlikely to break or split. It is just a matter of if you like to have a bat that looks a bit special.
A more pronounced form of Butterfly Stain is known as Bar Stain. Again the wood is very strong and you can tell the difference from Butterfly Stain by the fact that this has many “Bars” of stain very close together.
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think gary was on about a butterfly stain mate not a pin knott? :)
where they not part of the same conversation?
If not then my mistake.
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http://www.cricketbatwillow.com/blades-grading (http://www.cricketbatwillow.com/blades-grading)
Sorry but to me a grade 1 is purely white willow in the playing area even grains spacing and no blemishes on the playing area.
Not many bats are true grade 1
And the grade on performance well that just misleading and nobody can tell me because it taps up well means it going to play well
If pin notts are good why do some drill them out and full...
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I think pin knots are classed as being very small. I think most makers would tend to grade on looks (because if they graded on performance who would ever buy a G3?).
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How do you grade on performance ???
I think it is impossible to grade
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How do you grade on performance ???
I think it is impossible to grade
Personally, I think it is only possible to grade on looks, as GM do. Thus you will get some bargain lower grade bats.
But back to pin knots - has anyone found they improve performance?
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where they not part of the same conversation?
If not then my mistake.
I think it must of been a very similar conversation I had with Gary. He said it created a "hard" area on the willow and you may feel a slightly different response. It's not to say it won't perform the same but the response may feel different.
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I think it depends on how deep the pin knot is, but that's just what I think. I don't think it has any effect at all if it is not deep, ie only on the surface, but if it is deep, I reckon it can cause that area to be less responsive. I think I read somewhere that they tend to occur when the trees aren't trimmed properly, so it is an entirely different thing to butterfly stains, but don't quote me on that!
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When Paul @ IJC visited Andrew at Salix it was mentioned that if they are on the surface the ball will just 'ping' off them. However if they are deep in the wood it a no-go as they affect performance.
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Hi Buzz, I coincidentally just received a BB Malik profile I purchased with 2 pin knots right in the hitting area. I don't think it has a negative effect on performance at all since this is one of the best performing bats I have had. I've only used it in 2 nets so it hasn't even fully opened up yet as well. I have had other bats with pin knots as well and they also seemed to go very well.
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where they not part of the same conversation?
If not then my mistake.
Me and Gary were discussing graping in the hitting area not pin knots.
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Hi Buzz, I coincidentally just received a BB Malik profile I purchased with 2 pin knots right in the hitting area. I don't think it has a negative effect on performance at all since this is one of the best performing bats I have had. I've only used it in 2 nets so it hasn't even fully opened up yet as well. I have had other bats with pin knots as well and they also seemed to go very well.
I think Buzz is referring to ones that are elongated and run horizontally rather than just on one spot ala similar to a pixel.
I have latter on edge of my Oblivion (which face towards profile shot) and I prefer this as it hardens the wood.
Haven't had one like MSR.