Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: Vulcan Cricket on March 01, 2013, 04:05:04 PM
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Ddo you think machine made bats down grade the skills of hand made bats ???
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no, they are just different.
A hand made bat can get more out of the individual cleft than a mass produced bat, but a machine made bat is frequently a more uniform shape.
It all depends on the person making the bat or programming the machine, both a very special skills in my book
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Using a machine to do the real donkey work and leaving a big enough cleft for a true craftsmen to finish is reasonable.
However, it depends on how much is left for the bat maker.
There is little or no point in having a skilled craftsmen doing the donkey work.
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No
As someone who operates cnc machines everyday you can adjust it bit by bit and get most out of a cleft just depends how fast and uniform you want to be
As buzz said both skills just different ways of skinning a cat
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I like both to be honest my match bat is a hybrid Cnc human finished and reshaped bat so I can see both merits.
I think the market is there for us nerds and than the general market who do not care
No hand in hand they work together I think after all a press is mechanical so like it a Cnc will only do what you tell it too like a press and different pressing techniques
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I think it does downgrade the skill of a master batmaker.
Yes, programming that CNC machine to make the best bats is a real skill but it's not batmaking it's computer programming! So we should take solace in the fact that although we can't make cricket bats anymore we can program a computer to do it for us??? :D
Like I said on another thread, machine made bats are 'produced', handmade ones are crafted. Does it matter to the majority of the bat buying public? Not one bit.....that's why it's diminishing the skills of the real batmakers! If no one cares whether it's handmade or not then I can see a time coming when no one bothers to handmake at all. Then the skills are lost and the 'craft' dies for good.
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But which bats are better is the question one that can't be answered
I care not of where it come from just how it feels in the hands.
My hands can't tell who made a bat and never lie about bats
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I forgot!
Have you done a 'Pepsi challenge'?
I'll bet many wouldn't know the difference.
It's probably only a very small % who know the difference.
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But which bats are better is the question one that can't be answered
I care not of where it come from just how it feels in the hands.
My hands can't tell who made a bat and never lie about bats
That's the whole point Dave! If we can't tell the difference then the skill of handmaking a bat is diminished because there is no need or demand for it to be done anymore!
That is not something I want to see happen.
I think anyone paying over £200 for a bat made by a machine is being ripped off. At least with a proper handmade bat the costing of it is quantifiable. Merely saying that the CNC machine 'cost a lot of money' which we need to recoup isn't good enough. The whole idea of a CNC is to be able to produce more bats quickly and more cheaply so why does that equate to the price going up and not down?
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The truth is if a machine csn work out density and what not and produce the same bat time after time in dimensions and what not I think it hard to beat.
Remember Luke your luckier than most you live within a short distance of a great batmaker and know a bit about it.
I have had custom made in front of me and also machine custom.
The proof in the pudding is the next machine custom because if it can get to the level the first one has there on to a winner....
It doesn't matter though who makes bats I guess it the old adage of consumer and collectors
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The truth is if a machine csn work out density and what not and produce the same bat time after time in dimensions and what not I think it hard to beat.
Remember Luke your luckier than most you live within a short distance of a great batmaker and know a bit about it.
I have had custom made in front of me and also machine custom.
The proof in the pudding is the next machine custom because if it can get to the level the first one has there on to a winner....
It doesn't matter though who makes bats I guess it the old adage of consumer and collectors
It's not about which method is better for me, both have their advantages and disadvantages, I do feel that a batmaker has an advantage over a computer programmer when it comes to making a bat though, especially if you are there with that batmaker! It's about keeping the traditional skills alive, and i think that's important! Honestly, I think it's sad that more people don't feel the same way....
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I have never had a machine bat made in front of me but agree a maker making it there and then is special there no doubt about that mate.
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It's about keeping the traditional skills alive, and i think that's important! Honestly, I think it's sad that more people don't feel the same way....
Very true - if your bat needs repairing or a re-furb try taking it to a cnc machine...
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Very true - if your bat needs repairing or a re-furb try taking it to a cnc machine...
That's where the maker and the machine work hand in hand.
A bat does not just come rolling of the machine finished.
It is a specialised art one we shouldn't lose
90 per cent possibly higher wouldn't know if a bat was handmade or machine made I guess that does devalue hand made bats
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I don't think that it really downgrades the skills of a podshaver. If I want a shape exactly to a specific dimension, and it happens to be of a shape of a bat made by a machine, then I will go for that bat, assuming it feels good in the hands. If I want something a little more specific, with a specific swell position and pickup and amount of concaving, then I would go to a podshaver.
The great thing about having a podshaver make your bat is that they understand the wood, how each cleft is different, and can adjust the wood taken off at specific areas. They also take into consideration your handle preference, how to best shape that to achieve the balance you want, and also select which cleft they feel would work best for what you want.
The thing is, a machine doesn't know the properties of the willow, etc etc. The person behind the cleft selection may, so will be able to choose the right cleft for that specific shape. However, they all look the same and feel slightly different, and they should, as we may like the same shape, but like different feels.
All in all, what I'm trying to say is that both do produce a good product in the end, you can get some duds from a machine or podshaver. For me, I feel that a podshaver offers adjustments based of feel and pickup, and generally does it right. You always give a bat to a podshaver to adjust the weight of, you never really put it back into a machine as it is a hassle to readjust the CNC to do the re-adjustment, but also because a podshaver has the skill and knowledge to know exactly where to take the wood off to achieve that rebalance, and can test the pick up him/herself throughout the process.
I think that we need both, as batmakers cannot make enough bats to supply all the players in the world. (Unless there are HUGE numbers of podshavers that I don't know about) The demand for handmade bats has dropped significantly from what I have heard, and that is mostly because all the players are sponsored by companies that have their bats machine made. This does not downgrade the skills of a batmaker, but I think that the effect it has is that most people don't really care much about who makes their bats, and don't really know the whole process. They just know it is used by so and so, who seems to get on well with it and "I like how they bat, so I will get that."
In the end, if it works, do you really need to know where it has come from? 8)
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The best machine made cricket bats will in the future come from suppliers who have people that love the raw material, understand how it and the user interact and will create bat shapes accordingly. They will simply have replaced the drawknife and travisher for a cnc. Will the craft have died? I don't think so. Will it have changed beyond recognition? Yes.
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I don't think that it really downgrades the skills of a podshaver. If I want a shape exactly to a specific dimension, and it happens to be of a shape of a bat made by a machine, then I will go for that bat, assuming it feels good in the hands. If I want something a little more specific, with a specific swell position and pickup and amount of concaving, then I would go to a podshaver.
The great thing about having a podshaver make your bat is that they understand the wood, how each cleft is different, and can adjust the wood taken off at specific areas. They also take into consideration your handle preference, how to best shape that to achieve the balance you want, and also select which cleft they feel would work best for what you want.
The thing is, a machine doesn't know the properties of the willow, etc etc. The person behind the cleft selection may, so will be able to choose the right cleft for that specific shape. However, they all look the same and feel slightly different, and they should, as we may like the same shape, but like different feels.
All in all, what I'm trying to say is that both do produce a good product in the end, you can get some duds from a machine or podshaver. For me, I feel that a podshaver offers adjustments based of feel and pickup, and generally does it right. You always give a bat to a podshaver to adjust the weight of, you never really put it back into a machine as it is a hassle to readjust the CNC to do the re-adjustment, but also because a podshaver has the skill and knowledge to know exactly where to take the wood off to achieve that rebalance, and can test the pick up him/herself throughout the process.
I think that we need both, as batmakers cannot make enough bats to supply all the players in the world. (Unless there are HUGE numbers of podshavers that I don't know about) The demand for handmade bats has dropped significantly from what I have heard, and that is mostly because all the players are sponsored by companies that have their bats machine made. This does not downgrade the skills of a batmaker, but I think that the effect it has is that most people don't really care much about who makes their bats, and don't really know the whole process. They just know it is used by so and so, who seems to get on well with it and "I like how they bat, so I will get that."
In the end, if it works, do you really need to know where it has come from? 8)
Post of the day can't add anything to that
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Just read the whole thread and its definitely a tricky one but I personally think that if you had someone who knew the physics of the bat making process i.e. where to remove meat from in order to get better pick up, weight etc etc. Who knew how to use a CNC machine then people could have a bat from a cleft in minutes. That could also be taken off the machine for almost any modification to be made. You could machine a smaller amount take it off try it in a net, then put it back on remove some more material, fine tuning on a CNC is easy. Then once the customer was happy with the result all that would be needed would be to finish it. Of course at the end of the day you still need the know how on how to shape a bat to make a bat usable, so its not losing the art of podshaving. Another option as stated before is to remove a fair chunk of meat before it reaches the hands of the podshaver.