Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: Nickauger on March 17, 2013, 11:46:56 AM
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What are people's thoughts on facing express pace? Who triggers, who stands stock still, who pre-empts, who starts their backlift during the bowlers delivery stride, who has other ways of playing it?
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I try to stand as still as possible however I have a backlift as they're about to start their stride
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Also, what do people class as express pace. I'm talking 80+
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The guys I faced who could have been that fast, no speed guns in the Army back then, where rapid.
I literally concentrated on keeping it out and not getting hit. However, if you're going to wear one then relax. It hurts less.
When one was slightly fuller I could get more forward and scored, but it was a case of surviving and keeping myself and wicket intact.
We played against an Army quick last year, I'm getting on, so I just got into line and kept it out.
Top tips, get into line early, short back lift, good bat speed, and you'll be fine.
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Also, what do people class as express pace. I'm talking 80+
80+ and your getting 'quick'. 85+ is express (at club level, probably add 10mph to the pro circuits) so you don't find very many express around the club circuits. anything under 80 isn't really that quick but at the end of the day it's down to your personal confidence. Some people will think 70 is quick, some wiill not.
The only thing I change is my backlift. I lower it for genuine pace and just use timing more than anything, don't bother 'hitting' it, just let the ball do the work as it has the pace.
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I would be very surprised if you face 85+ consistently in any league. Certainly no bowlers in the WEPL (below prem 1 anyway) that bowl that quickly that consistently. I personally only reckon I've face 85+ once and that was scary lol. Otherwise, I reckon even the quickest in Prem 2 (probably the Shapwick lads) were only 78-80.
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I would be very surprised if you face 85+ consistently in any league. Certainly no bowlers in the WEPL (below prem 1 anyway) that bowl that quickly that consistently. I personally only reckon I've face 85+ once and that was scary lol. Otherwise, I reckon even the quickest in Prem 2 (probably the Shapwick lads) were only 78-80.
Didn't say I did. Just saying that to me 'express' at club level is 85 (ish) and 'quick is 80 (ish). Anything less is not slow but a batsmen should be able to easily deal with a 70/75 ish bowler (ie block the good, punish the crap) etc. Still going to get the odd jaffer of course no matter what the speed/quality of bowling and you always have batsmen error to also get you out :)
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I've never faced anything as quick as the Army lads in club cricket.
That's Kent and Middlesex league to clarify.
Maybe that crop of Army guys where proper express, but 80 is about tops. Maybe 1 ball may explode past you, but nothing as quick as you allude too at that level.
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I reckon you probably did Eddie, I was more talking about club leagues. Army/Navy/RAF/Combined Services is closer to representative level, with essentially a crop of however many people there are in the army and play cricket to choose from. I would also imagine that there are no limits to 'overseas' players so may be a few quick windians etc.
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It's the overseas bowlers who are generally the quick one's. Most normal players are not quick and are just normal 'quicks'. Only the odd one per year is a genuine quick, if that.
Still easy to get out to any speed of bowler though!
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In my younger days when I played A grade in our competition when facing the quicks I didn't "think" about anything.. I switched off and concentrated on the ball... I guess I let instincts take over... Worked for me.. Don't know if it was the right way but like I said it worked.
I guess when you are training and netting regularly against quicks instincts and muscle memory take over.
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I guess when you are training and netting regularly against quicks instincts and muscle memory take over.
That's the key with anything I believe. If you train regularly against pace (not saying everything must be trained at lightening speed but just regular exposure to proper pace) will mean you naturally just play it when it comes along as No:4 indicated.
So add on 50 or 60 balls at 80 on the machine into your routine at the end or start or whatever and at least you'll get used to facing such speeds.
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Express pace is 90mph plus in my book.
85 is quick. 80 fast medium etc.
Fastedie. Who did you face in the army then ? In my experience the services standard of cricket is well below premier league std. I have played with and against some of the better players from the combined services teams and to be honest standard is not great.
Interested to hear who was 90mph ?
As far as playing pace I always like to get in line with a back and across trigger. My plan was alway to try and dominate the quick as I figured if the are express pace it's going to go off the bat so you might as well try and get on top early and knock them off thier line and length or out if the attack all together.
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Try not to be afraid, as you're then half way to getting out already!
I suppose you should just try to stay as still as you can and react to the ball on its merit?
In nets, I found myself backing away before I even knew what bowlers were bowling and I have now tried to make the effort to stay still and watch the ball 100%.
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I reckon you probably did Eddie, I was more talking about club leagues. Army/Navy/RAF/Combined Services is closer to representative level, with essentially a crop of however many people there are in the army and play cricket to choose from. I would also imagine that there are no limits to 'overseas' players so may be a few quick windians etc.
The bloke NOT to face was a Guardsman Called "Redders". 5ft 10 max and bowled like the wind. I've never been scared, but the first ball he ever bowled to me went past my nose before I had moved. Everyone else seemed pedestrian (which of course they where not).
If ever you play at the Guards ground at Burton Ct he is in a picture in around 1992. When I saw that a couple of years back I shuddered.
After that knock I sat down, had a fag and a cold beer whilst me Corps team mates laughed themselves incontinent at what I had just faced.
The Armed forces can get the cream of the crop, they are also fit, well Navy and RAF aside (I'm biased of course).
The league players I've come across don't have the intensity I enjoyed in the Army side. Maybe it's a different 'space'.
No, genuine pace is over 80. But actually it's 'how' it's delivered that makes it proper nasty.
I've faced guys who are in the 70's and it seemed gentle, but faste(r)eddie bowls at that pace, or approaching, and he is nasty at Lords.
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I agree, knowing where to pitch it always helps! Though if the bowler doesn't know where it's going, neither does the batsman ;)
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I class express pace as someone who bowls it fast enough that if they pitch one and it moves off straight then I am not fast enough to react to the movement.
Sadly that means express bowling is about 65mph for me nowadays :-(
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What are people's thoughts on facing express pace? Who triggers, who stands stock still, who pre-empts, who starts their backlift during the bowlers delivery stride, who has other ways of playing it?
to make things simpler, why don't we ask the question, how do you play bowling that is beating you for pace? (that way it could be 65 or 85!)
Personally I am interstate in all techniques, not just a trigger movement.
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Last year in euro cup finals I faced first two overs of this guy on a cement based artificial pitch.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/377434.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/377434.html)
He plays now for the Poland national team and Yorkshire third .. and also won some zee fastest bowler award in India.. He bowls consistently above 140 km/ hr but I found him bit wayward.. The one ball though I missed and it got hit on my thigh and went black for couple of motnths..
From my experience.. The time becomes so less that instinct takes over.. Staying still certainly helps.
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When I used to play at that kind of level it depended on the bowler's height - short and quick I'd get back and accross and look to work the ball leg side, tall and quick I'd stay still on leg and give myself the best chance of keeping an eye on the ball all the way down. On the few occasions last year when we faced someone qquick in the CS (a couple of lads from the High Commissions were rapid pro level bowlers), to be honest, I fudged it...
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A side thought to that - it also depends on how well the bowler conceals the ball from you. My nephew, until he got injured last year, bowled at close to 90mph but was mostly playable because he ran in in a straight line and bowled more or less gun barrell straight, whereas I have faced guys who bowl high 70s who give you the hurry up because you don't get to line them up before delivery.
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Fasteddie
Redders has never been quick your talking mid 60 mate I have kept to readers and played with him for years.
Quickest bowler in the army was David wade who if your remember got contracted to Gloucestershire was late 70/ early 80 top on his day.
Quickest bowler in the forces is Cessford who is quicker than wade and now taken on by Worcestershire
The truth is not many league bowlers bowl in the 80 because county's would look that natural talent not a given at that speed.
Agree it also how they bowl I hate skiddy shoulder bowlers harder to read for me.
I tend to shorten my back lift but I do that anyway on decent wickets
I know wade speed I kept to him and he used to get mad bounce and after swing I was so far back
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Quickest I have faced include (and the pace is what they have been officially recorded at but not saying they bowled that quick when I faced them)
Andre Van Troost - 95m mph (read Flintoffs book and see what he says about him)
Mark Turner - 90 mph
Andy Iffel - 85 mph
Andy Caddick - 85 mph
Dave Beal - 85 mph
Ben Gannon - 80 mph
Matt Cleal - 80 mph (only one to hit me on the head and now he is my brother in law !!)
Van Roost was the scariest by a mile, quick, unorthodox action, arms and legs everywhere and nasty !!
The wicket you play on makes a huge difference as well. Most of these bowler I have faced on slow club tracks and coped fairly well but I would not want to face them too much on a county track !!
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Didn't van troost once hit the sightscreen on the full off a bouncer keiron
I twice played against jermaime lawson the banned West Indian chucker he was rapid after I top edged a 6.
Funny the 2nd game it was cold so he didn't bother instead had the wily legend that is Peter sleep bowling
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not sure about that Dave but i guess its possible at Taunton. He would probably hit it on the full as well as he did not mind bowling the odd beamer as well !! scary.
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Steve MSR has faced some quick's in his time as well. Take a look on cricket archive, he played with and against some of the best.
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I have seen who the best you have played against keiron
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Fasteddie
Redders has never been quick your talking mid 60 mate I have kept to readers and played with him for years.
Quickest bowler in the army was David wade who if your remember got contracted to Gloucestershire was late 70/ early 80 top on his day.
Quickest bowler in the forces is Cessford who is quicker than wade and now taken on by Worcestershire
The truth is not many league bowlers bowl in the 80 because county's would look that natural talent not a given at that speed.
Agree it also how they bowl I hate skiddy shoulder bowlers harder to read for me.
I tend to shorten my back lift but I do that anyway on decent wickets
I know wade speed I kept to him and he used to get mad bounce and after swing I was so far back
I know graham cessford! Used to play for Chester le street cricket club who were in the national club finals day on sky. They used to pay for his flight over to the north east each week haha! He is rapid though....said he bowled one of the best balls in his life to one of our lads, all 3 stumps where out the ground haha! :o
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There is quick, then there is scary. The only times ive been bricking it is to Mo Akram, and when i was alot younger john maynard (wish i could remember more of the game apart from the couple of deliveries i did not see)
Was not the first person to say " i will pad up" when our overseas turned up the first time to nets, but it didnt seem that quick as you knew it wasnt going to be short. Ive posted this clip before of him when he was fit to play.
full and sort of straight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGHfWNtEyZM#)
I think that someone who bowls quick is more difficult to face if you and even the bowler is unsure of where it is going. I dont fancy playing any quicks now days, or to be honest, ever!
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That's a great ball, the reaction of the non striker sums it up, you can just imagine he's thinking 2's and fours only, leave that end to the rest.
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You know when your facing super quick stuff you just here the fizz of the seam and the thud of the keepers hands
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Fasteddie
Redders has never been quick your talking mid 60 mate I have kept to readers and played with him for years.
I'm talking 1993/4. That's when I faced him.
The other chap was Patterson (I think), another Guardsman. He was tall and ginger. Steve Cornhill was first change. He was steady back then and had my number, got me out every time I faced him.
We are much older now. I'm 41, pushing 42. I'd imagine they are the same.
I assume you are much younger than I.
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You know when your facing super quick stuff you just here the fizz of the seam and the thud of the keepers hands
I'm also having a convo with square leg while wofting a bat as a token gesture :)
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You know when your facing super quick stuff you just here the fizz of the seam and the thud of the keepers hands
Before the bats come down and the Next ball all you hear is a crash as the off stump goes cartwheeling off behind you haha.
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It thrilling thought I find playing against a real quick bowler I love it concentrates the mind and nothing like just leaning on one through cover
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It thrilling thought I find playing against a real quick bowler I love it concentrates the mind and nothing like just leaning on one through cover
Or Snicking through the slips for four and thinking oooohhh crap, I bet this next ones going to have some juice in it haha.
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I try and get behind the ball so make some movements just before the bowler bowls it
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Have absolutely no trigger and never wear a chest guard.
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Fastest I faced was Chris Cairns in the nets. Didn't see the ball and it somehow was straight enough to hit my bat. To be fair, I didn't really move. Could only have been about 80mph.
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Only faced 80-90mph against a bowling machine and never in a game (thank goodness!!)
Only ever faced bowling in the 70s (mph, not the decade!!) to which i am thankful.
Will leave the really quick stuff to you guys ;)
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Would say that express pace is 90+. Anything below that is still manageable and you feel like you have some time to still adjust should something nasty come your way. There is a massive difference in pace when facing between 140kph and 145kph.
Faced some quickish guys like Simon Jones, Zondeki, Ntini, Franklin Rose etc who were clocking it at 90+ at the time and I found that a trigger came in handy just to get the feet moving against these guys. Remember at that pace you have about 0.4-0.5s to react. That's to pick up line and length, get the head and feet into position and finally bring hands into play to get the ball where you want it to go.
As long as you trigger early enough so your head is still at delivery you should be fine.
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Only faced 80-90mph against a bowling machine and never in a game (thank goodness!!)
Only ever faced bowling in the 70s (mph, not the decade!!) to which i am thankful.
Will leave the really quick stuff to you guys ;)
Same here Pete, I reckon 70's is as fast as I've faced. I'd have absolutely no chance against real quicks as I just don't think I'd be able to react quickly enough. I've no idea how the pro's do it (I know talent and practice help) as I sometimes struggle to get down to fuller length balls at the slower pace that I face.
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My way of facing heat is to get off strike whenever you can ;).
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Best place to be when it gets a bit hot! Laughing at the other guy facing it! ;)
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Faced Neil Saker in a club 6 a side a few years ago. Faced 3 balls, 2 outside edges for 4 that reached the boundary before I knew I'd hit them and the next cleaned me up. Middle stump went cartwheeling halfway to the boundary!
I usually face around the 60-65 mph mark comfortably, so someone pinging it down that quick off 3 paces left me proper bricking it!
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I tend to try and get a bit lower in my stance as they let go of the ball. I find it helps me get in line and pick up length a bit better. I'm a lefty so the ball is always coming at you or across you so I guess it's a form of trigger.
I read somewhere that Sachin triggers dependant on where he thinks he'll score. I completely buy into this. If you have a big quick banging it in on a bouncy track then trigger deep into your crease and watch for the full ball. If they are sharp but the pitch is slow then back and across and get in line. I notice Amla triggers straight at the bowler regardless of pace so I think he doesn't struggle to pick anything up!
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I read somewhere that Sachin triggers dependant on where he thinks he'll score
please please will you dig up where you read this - I am really interested in the mindset for this
thanks!
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my current techniques has massive flaws anything above 80+ other than half volleys i struggle with.
however ive not tried it yet with my new trigger
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Quickest bowlr I thankfully avoided facing as David Kettlborough, the Castleford RL player, ho turnd out for Osbaldick in the York SL. He hit our pro on th gloves ith a bouncer and it carried over the keeper for six!
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The guys I faced who could have been that fast, no speed guns in the Army back then, where rapid.
I literally concentrated on keeping it out and not getting hit. However, if you're going to wear one then relax. It hurts less.
When one was slightly fuller I could get more forward and scored, but it was a case of surviving and keeping myself and wicket intact.
We played against an Army quick last year, I'm getting on, so I just got into line and kept it out.
Top tips, get into line early, short back lift, good bat speed, and you'll be fine.
Fasteddie who do you play for when you play against the army???
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After a bit of homework - I think I faced this guy on a bouncy one at the Bank sportsclub.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/37111.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/37111.html)
He was the quickest guy I remember facing. I played a forward defensive shot to him and it raced most of the way to the boundary. It put a seam mark dent in my bat!! My next ball was a bouncer which went for a one bounce four byes after clearing me and the keepers head. Not as quick as the likes of Andre Von Troost though...
Cricinfo says...(I am disputing the pace bit, I faced him before his injury issues, in 2004)
With a run-up reminiscent of Bob Willis or even Dennis Lillee - albeit without the pace of either - Gillespie shone in New Zealand domestic cricket as a specialist bowler at the death.
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After a bit of homework - I think I faced this guy on a bouncy one at the Bank sportsclub.
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/37111.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/37111.html[/url])
He was the quickest guy I remember facing. I played a forward defensive shot to him and it raced most of the way to the boundary. It put a seam mark dent in my bat!! My next ball was a bouncer which went for a one bounce four byes after clearing me and the keepers head. Not as quick as the likes of Andre Von Troost though...
Cricinfo says...(I am disputing the pace bit, I faced him before his injury issues, in 2004)
With a run-up reminiscent of Bob Willis or even Dennis Lillee - albeit without the pace of either - Gillespie shone in New Zealand domestic cricket as a specialist bowler at the death.
It puts things into perspective when cricinfo class him only fast medium.
The fastest I've faced was a kid at my school who was measured at low 80's (and he was a couple of years below me). His action was too flawed for him to go above county u-17. Great fun to have in your team at that age though, seeing the oppo bricking it before the end of the 1st over.
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It would have been funny before the first ball was even bowled! (assuming he's on your team!)
The sight of the wicket keeper, slips and gully standing back a long, long way - the opening batsmen must of thought they were joking until they realised that they were staying back! :o
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i opened up against some of the west indies pace attack in 2007 and 2008 I was told to get back and across and just lean on anything pitched up, no need to hit it, just time it. Anything short, get out of the way if i wasnt in the right position to pull.
It was scary, it was fun and i was sh1tting myself all at the same time.
I survived ....... just
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It puts things into perspective when cricinfo class him only fast medium.
The fastest I've faced was a kid at my school who was measured at low 80's (and he was a couple of years below me). His action was too flawed for him to go above county u-17. Great fun to have in your team at that age though, seeing the oppo bricking it before the end of the 1st over.
This for me is the biggest problem with the old school thinking of coaching. Malinga or Murali would have never been half as good if they were english, it would have been coached out of them!