Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: thecord on May 07, 2013, 09:35:40 AM
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Playing at the weekend it quickly became apparent that one of the opposition bowlers was clearly chucking. This became even more obvious in his second spell by which time I was watching from the sidelines and was able to discuss it with my team mates who all agreed. I mentioned it to our skipper who decided it wasn't worth the potential argument no balling him or pointing it out may cause which is fair enough.
The problem is that at my level we rarely have league umpires so this guy may well carry on chucking until he either comes across a league umpire (a good thing) or gets into a tight match situation against bristly opponents and starts getting no balled (not such a good thing).
My question is how bad does a bowlers action need to be before being called into question? How have other people gone about it and what have the reactions been like?
My plan was to point it out to their skipper over a beer after the game but I got caught up in the post match banter and forgot.
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Chucking is a very touchy subject and often argued either way, depending on which team the guy is on.
In this modern age of technology, rather than start an argument with the opposition, why don't you use mobile phones to video it and send it to the league to sort?
It may not be of benefit to you in that game, but it is a fair way to make sure it is dealt with in the long term.
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did you win the game? if nto the follwoign may seem like sour grapes.
what i would do is have an informal chat over the phone with someone from the legue committee and mention that xyz is clearly chucking the ball and would it be possible for them to send a couple of league umpires down to there games and have a look at him.
If they wont then im afraid soemone is going to have to be brave enough to no ball him and hope it doesnt cause a riot!
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did you win the game? if nto the follwoign may seem like sour grapes.
what i would do is have an informal chat over the phone with someone from the legue committee and mention that xyz is clearly chucking the ball and would it be possible for them to send a couple of league umpires down to there games and have a look at him.
If they wont then im afraid soemone is going to have to be brave enough to no ball him and hope it doesnt cause a riot!
Hi yea we did win the game so no sour grapes, I am more concerned for the lad himself than anything else knowing some of the other sides in our league are not as friendly as us.
I think we can have a gentle word with a guy from our league now you mention it as he popped along to one of our games last year to check out a couple of bowlers' actions.
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Phil, there is a lad who plays for bohemians I think it was who chucks it. Our umpire started no balling him, they all got pissy, ending up changing for a new bowler. The new bowler took 4 wickets in 2 overs. We should of stuck with the chucker!!
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Phil, there is a lad who plays for bohemians I think it was who chucks it. Our umpire started no balling him, they all got pissy, ending up changing for a new bowler. The new bowler took 4 wickets in 2 overs. We should of stuck with the chucker!!
Thanks for the tale of caution Rob! Will keep an eye out for that guy when we play them later this year. Was there any comeback from the league on that at all?
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Here we go Nick...
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If somebody is clearly chucking then the approach I take is to talk to the oppo skipper at the end of the over and inform him of the fact. The key word there is FACT, many bowlers have a strong wrist action that flicks the ball out and you need to be certain the arm is being used in a bending/throwing motion. If you are then in most cases a quick word with the skipper and the bowler either straightens up or gets yanked. The important thing is to do it with as little fuss as possible imho. I don't agree with outright no-balling without speaking to the captain first. It causes bad feeling and mis-understandings. The bowler may have not had any problems before and will be in a state of shock. I saw a youngster 2 seasons ago chuck a quicker ball and I spoke to the skipper and he had a word with the bowler, who bowled fine afterwards. It was only later in the season I discovered he had been chucking against most of the teams and we were one of the few to mention it!. Had blatant chuckers before and I've asked the skipper to withdraw them at the end of the over. 99% of the time this has worked fine.
We had one of our lads called Saturday. I thought it was harsh as his action is pretty orthodox, the call was on the margins and the guy bowls military medium. I've faced him in the nets and he looks perfectly normal, even side on he's looked fine until what went down Saturday. What was odd is that the umpire called it from behind the stumps, it didn't come from square leg. I was standing at square leg and some that looked fine got called and others that were more suspect didn't. The ump could've handled it better imho as he could've defused things by speaking to our skipper and the oppo skipper first (who was batting). The poor lad was shattered, his one over went for 16 and could've been handled better. We'll be working hard with him to sort it but I think he'll be fine.
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Here we go Nick...
yep, didn't help the oppo Saturday. I came on and made sure they weren't going anywhere fast lol
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If you have a qualified umpire, then you could theoretically no ball him at the time, though this is really not considered to be the done thing in many circles. Probably ask their skipper to consider removing him from the attack and then report your concerns to the league...
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As someone who has had oppo players question whether I chuck it thanks to wrist action, and having never been called by any umpires, up to and including Pro40 level umpires, it is worth doing it quietly with the skipper.
On another note, how can the umpire at the bowler's end possibly be calling no-ball for chucking? His view is totally out for that.
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depends - the umpire at the bowlers end is well placed for the type of chucking that a lot of spinners do whereby their elbow collapses and then darts over itself. Not for seamers though...
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I always thought the call had to be made from square leg for the reasons above. Not to mention the 15 degrees bending makes it more fraught than 20 years ago to make such a call. As I said, either he was being generous or the calls lacked consistency. Why call some and not others when the guy is bowling with the same action? Spotting a quicker ball chuck is easy, as is somebody chucking every ball, but when somebody bowls the same ball each time it makes you wonder why he was no balled 3 in 9 deliveries. In hindsight we should of had a friendly chat with the ump afterwards to find out what the basis was (and what to fix in his opinion).
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This is the no-ball rule relating to the arm:
2. Fair delivery - the arm
For a delivery to be fair in respect of the arm the ball must not be thrown. See 3 below
Although it is the primary responsibility of the striker’s end umpire to assess the fairness of a delivery in this respect, there is nothing in this Law to debar the bowler’s end umpire from calling and signalling No ball if he considers that the ball has been thrown.
(a) If, in the opinion of either umpire, the ball has been thrown, he shall call and signal No ball and, when the ball is dead, inform the other umpire of the reason for the call.
The bowler’s end umpire shall then,
(i) caution the bowler. This caution shall apply throughout the innings.
(ii) inform the captain of the fielding side of the reason for this action.
(iii) inform the batsmen at the wicket of what has occurred.
(b) If, after such caution, either umpire considers that, in that innings, a further delivery by the same bowler is thrown, the procedure set out in
(a) above shall be repeated, indicating to the bowler that this is a final warning.
This warning shall also apply throughout the innings.
(c) If either umpire considers that, in that innings, a further delivery by the same bowler is thrown, he shall call and signal No ball and when the ball is dead inform the other umpire of the reason for the call.
The bowler’s end umpire shall then,
(i) direct the captain of the fielding side to suspend the bowler forthwith. The over shall, if applicable, be completed by another bowler, who shall neither have bowled the previous over or part thereof nor be allowed to bowl any part of the next over.
The bowler thus suspended shall not bowl again in that innings.
(ii) inform the batsmen at the wicket and, as soon as practicable, the captain of the batting side of the occurrence.
(d) The umpires together shall report the occurrence as soon as possible after the match to the Executive of the fielding side and to any Governing Body responsible for the match, who shall take such action as is considered appropriate against the captain and the bowler concerned.
Sounds as though your umpires didn't know the rules Nick. If he bowled three "throws" that were called then he should have been removed from the attack and suspended from bowling for the rest of the match.
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Was it Dec who got called for Ashorne? He does have a very unusual action, but I never thought it was illegal.
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Was it Dec who got called for Ashorne? He does have a very unusual action, but I never thought it was illegal.
yes it was and I made a point of being at square leg for the friendlies to watch his action. Nobody had an issue from the oppo in both games but I'm not saying it couldn't be improved. I've already worked with him on it during the winter and it's pretty orthodox imho. The ump in question did the whole game without payment and did a good job. He was even handed to both sides so I'm grateful he was there and it makes life easier for both teams. I do think the situation could've been handled differently though and that's my main point.
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yes it was and I made a point of being at square leg for the friendlies to watch his action. Nobody had an issue from the oppo in both games but I'm not saying it couldn't be improved. I've already worked with him on it during the winter and it's pretty orthodox imho. The ump in question did the whole game without payment and did a good job. He was even handed to both sides so I'm grateful he was there and it makes life easier for both teams. I do think the situation could've been handled differently though and that's my main point.
As a batsman who's faced the bowler in question, I would state that his old action (haven't faced him this year so couldn't comment on his new one) is very hard to pick up. Because he doesn't extend his bowling arm, the ball is released from a lot lower trajectory so it's very hard to see it's release from his hand. It's also released from nearer his body rather than above his body, which again affects how well you see it.
While unorthodox, I don't think it's illegal but it is hard to adapt to, especially if you've not seen it before. Hence why he got 5 for twenty odd down our ground a couple of seasons back!
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Thanks for the tale of caution Rob! Will keep an eye out for that guy when we play them later this year. Was there any comeback from the league on that at all?
We didn't report it to the league. They didn't use the lad again. Tim, it was when we changed umpires that we did it as it was a couple of youngs lad umpiring at the time and they didn't want the hassle so one of the older chaps went on and warned him about his action, and then there captain removed him.
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As a batsman who's faced the bowler in question, I would state that his old action (haven't faced him this year so couldn't comment on his new one) is very hard to pick up. Because he doesn't extend his bowling arm, the ball is released from a lot lower trajectory so it's very hard to see it's release from his hand. It's also released from nearer his body rather than above his body, which again affects how well you see it.
While unorthodox, I don't think it's illegal but it is hard to adapt to, especially if you've not seen it before. Hence why he got 5 for twenty odd down our ground a couple of seasons back!
I faced him in the nets over the winter and apart from being very early on the ball (he's pretty gentle tbh) I can honestly say there are dozens of guys who I've faced with far worse actions that don't ever get called. Simmy/Liam/Fros will know about Gul who plays for Headingley. Gul bowls a genuine sharp ball, an offie and a leggie with the same action but they all seem variations of a chuck. Some deliveries more than others.
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We once played against Cameron Gannon the aussie guy who got done for chucking in state cricket when we was the overseas pro as Sonning. He tore through us, but you could always see that there was something wrong with his action, even the Umpires had a murmur, but nothing was brought of it, 4/5 years down the line, he has finally been done for it.
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Only when its blatant. We usually let marginal actions slide. Just not worth it.
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Club cricket does not use the 15 degree's rule, however most people do not know that!