Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Forum News and Suggestions => Custom Bats Blog => Topic started by: The 22nd Yard on May 22, 2013, 06:49:00 PM
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Apologies for the recent absence. With exams and a half marathon to prepare for it had to be done!
This is an in depth look at the previous banishment of all Pakistani players from the IPL, as well as digging into the extreme amount of Australian participation...
http://wp.me/p380Xy-8D (http://wp.me/p380Xy-8D)
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I'm enjoying the IPL this year, but you are right there are far too many average Australians in the squads. I would quite like to see more Englishmen in there but can't see how they can work it around the county game at the moment. We can push the start of the test summer back but we could really do with our test guys having some early season games rather than hopping off the plane from India straight into a test match. It's all about availability and cost compared to the Aussies as they are available for the whole tournament unlike our test guys. Ben Laughlin went for 20k and I remember Rikki Clarke saying that he had to put his base price as 200k because otherwise he would lose money once you take in to account agent fees and paying Warwickshire for being away for 6 weeks. Neither of those 2 are marque name signings that will guarantee runs or wickets so its a no brainer that you would take Laughlin for a tenth of the price.
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Do you not think the IPL could be good preparation? A lot of games, almost guaranteed good weather and a least one international standard bowler per game? Eoin Morgan seems to have done alright, I think if Root and Bairstow didn't do well he may get the nod for the Ashes purely on IPL and Champions Trophy form.
I didn't quite realise just how little the English players leave the tournament with, I wondered why Bopara and Prior had such high base prices in this auction.
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I think it's the difference in conditions that's the main problem. If the IPL was being played in New Zealand then the difference wouldn't be too bad but the contrast in conditions between India and England in May is just too much in my view.
I see Watson got himself in and then out without going onto fifty again today, does that remind you of anyone?
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Until the IPL gets it's house in order re: corruption I reckon England and Pakistan's players would do well to steer well clear! I cannot agree with regard to it being decent preparation for an English summer, the quality in the IPL is iffy, the conditions have no relevance to those in England and, as was mentioned the other day most players in the IPL return to their clubs overweight and out of nick. This last statement was part of what set David Warner off on his little melt down the other day but it is a view shared by the ACB......at least according to the journalist targeted by Warner.
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In terms of the quality being iffy, I can agree that some of the unheralded Indians are not of the best quality but is that any different to the county circuit? If guys in India switch on for a county game I doubt they are going to be that impressed watching Gareth Cross, Michael Rippon or Joe Sayers for example.
As for the form and fitness I don't know the ins and outs of it but I can imagine that the likes of Glen 'Big Show' Maxwell and Coulter-Nile could treat it as a 6 week bender seeing how little game time they have got!
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I agree with Fros, George Bailey couldn't buy a run in the Australian State season and breezed to 90 odd against a Leicestershire bowling attack with an average age of about 22 when Hoggard became injured. The base standard is similar, but the IPL has more international stars which could be better preparation.
It's nice to think it may come down to conditions and standard, but sadly we all know it will be corruption and money that decides participation...
Please Fros, don't compare my batting to Shane Watson, anything but that!
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I didn't quite realise just how little the English players leave the tournament with, I wondered why Bopara and Prior had such high base prices in this auction.
From whatever they are paid you have to subtract:
The equivalent loss from their county/ECB central salaries, which are anywhere from 7-20k per month
The 10% that they are mandated to pay their county
a circa 10% agents fee
Income tax at 40%.
So if a player on a top end county salary, let alone an ECB one, was listed at 100'000 for 6 weeks, and assuming they had an accountant good enough to get them away with NI payments as a sole contractor on top, they'd only make in the region of 25'000, as against 15'000 that they would make at home anyway - once expenses come off the top of that, they actually lose money.
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These blog posts never work for me, says it cannot load the URL
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From whatever they are paid you have to subtract:
The equivalent loss from their county/ECB central salaries, which are anywhere from 7-20k per month
The 10% that they are mandated to pay their county
a circa 10% agents fee
Income tax at 40%.
Cheers Manormanic, thats a good summarisation.
I'm guessing as it's the Aussies off season, that's why it makes it financially viable for them. I do feel the English players are missing out as it would be a great experience, there probably isn't a way of getting around that issue by the looks of it. Unless possibly the counties were subsidised by the ECB? Highly doubt that would happen though.
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Cheers Manormanic, thats a good summarisation.
I'm guessing as it's the Aussies off season, that's why it makes it financially viable for them. I do feel the English players are missing out as it would be a great experience, there probably isn't a way of getting around that issue by the looks of it. Unless possibly the counties were subsidised by the ECB? Highly doubt that would happen though.
They already are to a great extent. More money shouldn't be thrown into that pot.
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I'm guessing as it's the Aussies off season, that's why it makes it financially viable for them. I do feel the English players are missing out as it would be a great experience, there probably isn't a way of getting around that issue by the looks of it. Unless possibly the counties were subsidised by the ECB? Highly doubt that would happen though.
A combination of that, different tax laws etc.
How much English players are missing out is debateable though - Morgan apart most don't even get a game when they are there, so they might only be missing out on the cultural experience which has some value, but not much in cricketing terms. Furthermore, the standard of most of the bowling, a few star names apart, is so weak that any batsman going would end up with an inflaterd view of his own self worth.
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I don't think that you can call the quality of the bowling seriously weak, sure there are some poor spells and some lesser bowlers but compare it to what Lancashire served up against Hampshire last night. I watched Wayne White, Stephen Parry and Oliver Newby serve up plenty of filth last night.
Mumbai have Malinga, Johnson, Harbahjan, Ojha, Kulkarni and Pollard.
CSK have A.Morkel, Bravo, Morris, M Sharma, Ashwin and Jadeja.
Sunrisers had Steyn, I sharma, Mishra, K Sharma Sammy and Perrera.
Compare that to what Lancashire put out last night - White, Hogg, Newby, Kerrigan, Parry and Croft.
Ok its not exactly like for like with overseas restrictions but you can't tell me that all three of those Ipl bowling line ups are not stronger.
There are lesser players in all competitions for every Gayle and Dhoni there is a lesser Indian in the IPL. For every James Tayor and Chris Woakes there is a Wayne White or Michael Thornley in the county game.
If the IPL fell outside of the county and international season for England then I don't think we would really moan about the quality of it and we would just enjoy it for what it is. But because it crosses over with our season there is always that conflict and the traditionals amongst us are always going to say that we prefer our guys playing in the championship rather than the IPL.
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For as long as test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport then the English county season will have more relevance to player development than the IPL. As it stands the IPL is on extremely shaky foundations and I would not be surprised if the whole thing came falling down. The corruption and greed is incredible.
If the likes of a James Taylor or an Alex Hales did secure an IPL contract then how much game time would they actually get? How many overs would they face in total? 30? 40? How many of those overs will be bowled by world class operators? 10%? 20%? if your lucky? Compare this to a county season of constant cricket surrounded by top coaches and a professional support network and I can't see any plus points for the IPL other than money.
The IPL has already started to kill off Test cricket in India and the West Indies so why should we want that to happen in the UK?
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I agree, I would much rather see our young English guys playing in the championship over the IPL as I will always prefer test matches over T20 as the pinnacle of the game. If the IPL were played in Feb and March then that would give them the chance to play both if selected, I can't see it happening though as the BCCI will always do what they want.
I suppose it depends what players want to do with their career, James Taylor obviously wants to play test cricket so wont and shouldnt go to the IPL, what do the likes of Luke Wright, Michael Lumb, maybe even Alex Hales want from their career? If they don't think they will be a test match regular is it better for them to play IPL to aid Englands T20 side?
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How has Test cricket in India and the Caribbean been killed off?
Most Tests in the Caribbean are outside the IPL window. So hardly killing Test cricket.
In India people don't go to Tests as most of the bigger cities only host a Test every 2-3 years.
If you lived in Delhi, would you travel all the way to Calcutta? I highly doubt it.
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If the IPL fell outside of the county and international season for England then I don't think we would really moan about the quality of it and we would just enjoy it for what it is. But because it crosses over with our season there is always that conflict and the traditionals amongst us are always going to say that we prefer our guys playing in the championship rather than the IPL.
Okay, take this in context - there are ten IPL teams IIRC, so 110 layers per round of games, of whom 40 are overseas players.
By the time you take the ranks of big hitters (Pollard, Gayle, Warner, Watson) and faded seaside attractions (Gilly and several Indian names) out of that, you have a few decent overseas bowlers, a couple of cheap options, some very interesting Indian batsmen (all of whom I;d love to get on a juicy deck at Lords) and a LOT of second rate filler.
And looking at the attacks you offered, Mumbai have a decent five but the others are reliant upom second and third tier bowlers in the easiest batting conditions....
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How has Test cricket in India and the Caribbean been killed off?
Most Tests in the Caribbean are outside the IPL window. So hardly killing Test cricket.
In India people don't go to Tests as most of the bigger cities only host a Test every 2-3 years.
If you lived in Delhi, would you travel all the way to Calcutta? I highly doubt it.
You seem to have answered your own question!
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Okay, take this in context - there are ten IPL teams IIRC, so 110 layers per round of games, of whom 40 are overseas players.
By the time you take the ranks of big hitters (Pollard, Gayle, Warner, Watson) and faded seaside attractions (Gilly and several Indian names) out of that, you have a few decent overseas bowlers, a couple of cheap options, some very interesting Indian batsmen (all of whom I;d love to get on a juicy deck at Lords) and a LOT of second rate filler.
And looking at the attacks you offered, Mumbai have a decent five but the others are reliant upom second and third tier bowlers in the easiest batting conditions....
That works both ways though as there are plenty of county batsmen that would be all at sea on a turning track in Mumbai. Can you name me a county attack that's better than that CSk lineup especially when you consider it's in indian conditions?
Some of those guys aren't the best in the world but when you go through the lineups of Glamorgan, Gloucester, Leicester, Derby, Worcester, Northants they are full of mediocre cricketers, the odd youngster with potential and a couple of overseas/ kolpak has beens
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That works both ways though as there are plenty of county batsmen that would be all at sea on a turning track in Mumbai. Can you name me a county attack that's better than that CSk lineup especially when you consider it's in indian conditions?
Yorkshire's T20 line up - perm 5/6 from Starc, Brooks, Bresnan, Sidebottom, Plunkett, Rafiq, Rashid etc and that is without having four overseas players per team. And thats kind of the point - you might have four-six names per team but there are far too many p155 poor players for a country/tourney that size.
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Fair enough that's a pretty decent lineup, take out Plunkett and compare like for like and I would wager that most Indians would pick the CSK side though.
I think it depends on who you are benchmarking the lower Indians against though. Comparing them against Brooks, Woakes, Bresnan, who are the level just below England or are you comparing them against Wayne White, Harry Ball and David Griffiths? I agree that they are poor compared to Woakes etc but not when you compare them to the second set
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I think it depends on who you are benchmarking the lower Indians against though. Comparing them against Brooks, Woakes, Bresnan, who are the level just below England or are you comparing them against Wayne White, Harry Ball and David Griffiths? I agree that they are poor compared to Woakes etc but not when you compare them to the second set
Well, if we do the maths, there will be 70 Indian players in each round of matches. So compare the 30 or so bowlers with the top 30 in any other T20 competition (that way taking the overseas out of the equation). I'd say our version and the Australian one are certainly a lot stronger, and probably the South African one as well.