Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Gunn & Moore => Topic started by: CUSTOM-BATS on September 03, 2013, 09:00:48 PM
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GM officially launched their 2014 range today and I was lucky enough to be there. As you would expect, not a radical overhaul, but some interesting new changes:
- 2 new bats: Purist and Six6
- GM F-Tech choice of face curvature
- new ripple grip
- new blue colourway on all luggage; 707 wheelie increased in size to fit a full size bat inside; Original Easi-Load wheelie now has 2 single bat pockets on the outside
- design and protection improvements for several ranges of pads and gloves; discrete colour detail introduced
- stripper like thigh pad set
A few pics to follow
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I'm guessing the six6 is gonna be some kind of t20 hybrid bat. Unsure if extreme like the nemesis though.
Have the bags improved in quality? I've always thought gms bags to be poor,
Looking forward to the pics.
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Note: These pictures were taken with the permission of GM.
Please excuse the quality of the pictures from my blackberry ... here are the two new bats:
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698305818_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698305843_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698305869_o.jpg)
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I might need that Purist
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I was wrong on the six6 lol.
Like the shape, stickers are awful zona ones.
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I'm guessing the six6 is gonna be some kind of t20 hybrid bat. Unsure if extreme like the nemesis though.
Not really - it's not a short blade, if that's what you meant. Both have extended sweet spots, with the Purist having offset edges. Both feel very nice in the hand.
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Also hope the Icon stickers haven't changed. Need to send mine back but will think twice if they have
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Ripple grips - very very nice! I think this will be a huge seller
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698307134_o.jpg)
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Also hope the Icon stickers haven't changed. Need to send mine back but will think twice if they have
All the stickers have changed, but not drastically
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Really like the look of those grips :o. The six6 profile looks nice , but those stickers are just ugly though :-[.
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F-Tech face curvatures - 3 different curvatures available, butnot in all the models:
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698309966_o.jpg)
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Ive seen those grips on Indian made bats from last year
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So that six6 must of weighed 2-7 to be classed as a big bat?
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not really considering there seems to be minimal concaving and it has quite big edges...
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What bat is this in the corner with the Zona like stickers Mr Custom-Bats?
There are 3 icons to the left of your picture, the ones with the white/black grip
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Loved the grips when i first saw the design.
Slightly skeptical about the 3 face curvature options, 2 was confusing enough for customers this season.
I do like the Six6 colours, turqoise on bats is the in thing it seems with the Kook Impulse having turqoise and orange graphics.
Looks good so far, can't wait to see it all. I noticed a retailer quite local to us who isn't even cricket specialist got an invite to today, i'll be having a word with our rep! >:(
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So that six6 must of weighed 2-7 to be classed as a big bat?
Not sure what it weighed, but the guide weight range for the Six6 is 2.8-2.13 for an Original or Original LE
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Are they doing their own helmets again this season after the BSI standards?
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There are still the two existing helmets, Purist Pro and Pro Select.
According to GM, those helmets that already conform to the existing BSI standards will still be allowed.
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I'm trying very hard not to be a GM rep in this thread!! :)
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not really considering there seems to be minimal concaving and it has quite big edges...
Really? Look at the sticker on the back, looks quite curved to me.
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Some of the luggage:
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698316635_o.jpg)
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Huge fan of GM. Like what they've done this year! Is it just the Icon that adopts the new Zona like stickers or the whole range?
Icon and Six6, but the back stickers on the Zona say "Zona"; the back stickers on the other two say "GM"
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The Purist bat is unlike any other GM bat in their range, with the offset edges and spine, so that's a good thing. But the six6, is it not very similar to the Icon and Argon? Need to see a better photo to tell I suppose.
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Really? Look at the sticker on the back, looks quite curved to me.
which sticker on the back? it is virtually impossible to tell, the only shot that shows enough evidence is the profile shot and there dooesnt look to be much...
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The Purist bat is unlike any other GM bat in their range, with the offset edges and spine, so that's a good thing. But the six6, is it not very similar to the Icon and Argon? Need to see a better photo to tell I suppose.
The Six6 is probably closest to the Argon, but has the least concaving (only just) of the range, and the spine just arcs all the way along the back, whereas the Argon is quite flat up at the splice.
Sorry again for the poor quality of the pics - due to me leaving my camera battery on charge at home!! The GM web site should have all the new range, with complete detail in a few days time.
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F-Tech face curvatures - 3 different curvatures available, butnot in all the models:
([url]http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698309966_o.jpg[/url])
I am shocked by this - everyone thought it was confusing enough with two face profiles to choose from, but three? Even if one of the models has three options and the rest has two, it's still a joke. This is the most confusing range I've ever seen.
In my humble opinion, GM have lost the plot! Their branding remains uninspiring too. I predict they will have another bad year...
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The profiles look nice enough. They've really confused me with branding and naming conventions though, why does the 6Six have different stickers and a name totally different to the the usual Icon/Purist. It just looks like a normal bat, am I missing something with it?
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Do you know if the Octane and Argon be continued??
With the Six6 being such a similar shape, can they really sell the Octae, Argon & Six6 at the same time?
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I am shocked by this - everyone thought it was confusing enough with two face profiles to choose from, but three? Even if one of the models has three options and the rest has two, it's still a joke. This is the most confusing range I've ever seen.
In my humble opinion, GM have lost the plot! Their branding remains uninspiring too. I predict they will have another bad year...
I kind of agree. There's no real brand coherance, and the array of stickers/face types just screams "We have no idea what our customers want"
And the Purist could've been so so good, it does look a really nice shape - but nothing Purist about it.
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the only thing i understand is the codes
F7 = traditional face with a 7mm curve from middle to edge, ie the pressing machine has a 7mm curve
F4.5 = slightly flatter face as the face has a 4.5mm curve from middle to edge due to a pressing wheel having the same specs
F2 = means there is a 2mm curve from middle to edge and therefore the face looks flatter
in terms of the actual bats it makes absolutely no difference apart from the edge looking bigger but the middles are the exact same distance from the outside edge.
just a fad about big edges.
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I kind of agree. There's no real brand coherance, and the array of stickers/face types just screams "We have no idea what our customers want"
And the Purist could've been so so good, it does look a really nice shape - but nothing Purist about it.
They could've managed it so much better. Provide the Purist with proper Retro stickering, a la Kook and GN, and then have a common design language across the "modern" range. Humph.
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I like it a lot maybe just because I'm young lol :)
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I like it a lot maybe just because I'm young lol :)
At 19 I'm ancient & can't say I'm particularly fond, must be an age thing...
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the only thing i understand is the codes
F7 = traditional face with a 7mm curve from middle to edge, ie the pressing machine has a 7mm curve
F4.5 = slightly flatter face as the face has a 4.5mm curve from middle to edge due to a pressing wheel having the same specs
F2 = means there is a 2mm curve from middle to edge and therefore the face looks flatter
in terms of the actual bats it makes absolutely no difference apart from the edge looking bigger but the middles are the exact same distance from the outside edge.
just a fad about big edges.
How long untill this becomes customisable?
I'll have an LE Icon, 12 straight grains, 3 heartwood on the outside edge. Edge 38mm. The face? of course...... I'll have have 3.82 mm curve please.
mmmm lovely.
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How long untill this becomes customisable?
I'll have an LE Icon, 12 straight grains, 3 heartwood on the outside edge. Edge 38mm. The face? of course...... I'll have have 3.82 mm curve please.
mmmm lovely.
They have, they became B3
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Are GM bats not made in India ?
I would have surely thought that was the case , and now all these bats with made in ENG stickers ?
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Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure all GM bats are made in England, Nottingham I think. Only the GM bats made for the Indian market are made in India.
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Junter is correct.
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gm bats are made in UK on cnc machines.
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Are GM bats not made in India ?
I would have surely thought that was the case , and now all these bats with made in ENG stickers ?
Gunn and Moore spent a few million pounds investing in the 'DXM' process. Essentially this is one of the most sophisticated cricket focused CNC machines in existence, i've seen it first hand and it is an impressive bit of kit. All bats sold to the UK, SA, AUS/NZ (and maybe a few other areas) regions are made in Nottingham.
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Thanks fellas for the info. The bits about machines and the location kinda have helped me narrow it down.
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GM Bats for Indian market are the ones made in India. Back in the day they would have different names so for e.g. Flare range would be the same in India but not 909, 808 etc. althoug now the naming and more streamlined for all markets, I saw a indian made Argon 909 few weeks back and to be fair only thing different about that bat was no "made in england" sticker. Played well too...
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I'm sure being GM the quality is high however to me this is once again 'same old, same old'. With the old team leaving them they surely had the opportunity to make some changes but they seem to have played safe.
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What GM badly need is a young, vibrant and creative marketing manager to take the brand forward and stop confusing and boring the marketplace. It's a shame that they keep falling behind every year as they are the last of the big brands to manufacture in England and have so much heritage behind their name.
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I am shocked by this - everyone thought it was confusing enough with two face profiles to choose from, but three? Even if one of the models has three options and the rest has two, it's still a joke. This is the most confusing range I've ever seen.
In my humble opinion, GM have lost the plot! Their branding remains uninspiring too. I predict they will have another bad year...
Most interesting comments from you. Tell me, when did you see the full GM 2014 range presentation?
Kind regards
Edward
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Massive Like on your comment there Paul, totally agree. Getting bored of GM's repeat re-branding of the same old bats again and again..
What GM badly need is a young, vibrant and creative marketing manager to take the brand forward and stop confusing and boring the marketplace. It's a shame that they keep falling behind every year as they are the last of the big brands to manufacture in England and have so much heritage behind their name.
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the only thing i understand is the codes
F7 = traditional face with a 7mm curve from middle to edge, ie the pressing machine has a 7mm curve
F4.5 = slightly flatter face as the face has a 4.5mm curve from middle to edge due to a pressing wheel having the same specs
F2 = means there is a 2mm curve from middle to edge and therefore the face looks flatter
in terms of the actual bats it makes absolutely no difference apart from the edge looking bigger but the middles are the exact same distance from the outside edge.
just a fad about big edges.
Ah right. Will bin the research. And the 128 years of know how. And the continuous development with our players.
Kind regards
Edward
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Massive Like on your comment there Paul, totally agree. Getting bored of GM's repeat re-branding of the same old bats again and again..
Each to their own. What repeat branding are you referring to?
Kind regards
Edward
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As a representative of your brand, I would suggest you take these comments on board. It seems that you are offering too many options and thus it becomes confusing to the end customer, the majority of cricket players do not care about a flat face, rounded face or so on - it's only the real cricket bat geeks and professionals that really take an interest in this and then go about selecting their cricket bats due to this. This is coming from two successful retail shops and also market research I did for a brand that I was involved in - too many options confuse customers, why not make each model the same then if a team mate likes a GM that's being used then he can be assured that he's going to get the same bat as his team mate for example.
At the end of the day you are a retail brand, not a custom brand.
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Ah right. Will bin the research. And the 128 years of know how. And the continuous development with our players.
Kind regards
Edward
Im not doubting the research im merely saying that there are different presses used to create different faces which match the code given. Im also saying that if youu get calipers and measure from dead on the centre of the face to top of the spine on an identically sized bat from each range F7 F4.5 qnd F2 they would be the same measure. However if you measured the edges the flatter face (f2) would come out with bigger edges if you measured them in a traditional way using a tape measure. The last time i batted i was trying to use the middle and not the edge hence my comment it makes no difference if you are using the middle as the measurements are the same ...... i hope that made sense!?!?
I'll give you the chance to back up your comment so ............
What is the research that you have come up with to support that there is a need for a flatter face and does it make a difference? If you were saying a flatter face is better why no just do all flat face bats???
Look forward to your reply.
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Most interesting comments from you. Tell me, when did you see the full GM 2014 range presentation?
Kind regards
Edward
All I will say is that I've seen photos of two different "retro" bats that are about to be relaunched on the market. I look forward to seeing them both in person at Windsor in two weeks time - my opinion may change a little then, but a picture paints a thousand words, and I know which one I prefer at the moment...
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All I will say is that I've seen photos of two different "retro" bats that are about to be relaunched on the market. I look forward to seeing them both in person at Windsor in two weeks time - my opinion may change a little then, but a picture paints a thousand words, and I know which one I prefer at the moment...
We look forward to seeing you at Windsor and to hearing your thoughts when you have had an opportunity to actually see the range.
As for your derogatory comments about our staff, let me just say that it is an honour and a pleasure for me to work with the ladies and gents that we employ. I know them well and have absolutely the highest regard for them.
Kind regards
Edward
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As a representative of your brand, I would suggest you take these comments on board. It seems that you are offering too many options and thus it becomes confusing to the end customer, the majority of cricket players do not care about a flat face, rounded face or so on - it's only the real cricket bat geeks and professionals that really take an interest in this and then go about selecting their cricket bats due to this. This is coming from two successful retail shops and also market research I did for a brand that I was involved in - too many options confuse customers, why not make each model the same then if a team mate likes a GM that's being used then he can be assured that he's going to get the same bat as his team mate for example.
At the end of the day you are a retail brand, not a custom brand.
We try and listen to all feedback, good and bad.
Have you seen the range? Do you know what "options", as you say, we are offering?
Kind regards
Edward
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Im not doubting the research im merely saying that there are different presses used to create different faces which match the code given. Im also saying that if youu get calipers and measure from dead on the centre of the face to top of the spine on an identically sized bat from each range F7 F4.5 qnd F2 they would be the same measure. However if you measured the edges the flatter face (f2) would come out with bigger edges if you measured them in a traditional way using a tape measure. The last time i batted i was trying to use the middle and not the edge hence my comment it makes no difference if you are using the middle as the measurements are the same ...... i hope that made sense!?!?
I'll give you the chance to back up your comment so ............
What is the research that you have come up with to support that there is a need for a flatter face and does it make a difference? If you were saying a flatter face is better why no just do all flat face bats???
Look forward to your reply.
Thanks for your comments. A substantial part of our observations is that working with our pro cricketers, 50% opted for F2, 50% opted for F7. F2 is not "better" than F7 or vice versa. We aim to offer a range to provide choices for players.
Kind regards
Edward
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Also Edward, obviously GM opted for a retro range....but why have you not used the same shape as the old purist or the same stickers on the maestro vice a versa?!!!
Gray Nicolls and now kook have done the right thing in my eyes and have done retro stickers and basically the same shape with a tiny modern twist, ie the bubble will have a decent edge
Just really looked forward to seeing the purist if it was the non concaved beast it was back then but it isn't, which has led me to be very disappointed at GM to be honest
Cheers
Tony
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Thanks for your comments. A substantial part of our observations is that working with our pro cricketers, 50% opted for F2, 50% opted for F7. F2 is not "better" than F7 or vice versa. We aim to offer a range to provide choices for players.
Kind regards
Edward
I think you offer a good choice, but maybe people think its going a little to far with messing around with names and numbers. For me I dont really care about the name or range of a bat as long as i can pick it up and it feels right and the willow is good quality.
I dont mind the stickers on GM bats either, the stickers are better than GN for me (apart from Legend) as they arent as loud and brash.
Would have like to have seen an old school GM Diamond or GM Maestro but please dont ever bring back the GM Skipper!!
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Thanks for your comments. A substantial part of our observations is that working with our pro cricketers, 50% opted for F2, 50% opted for F7. F2 is not "better" than F7 or vice versa. We aim to offer a range to provide choices for players.
Kind regards
Edward
Ed - When you have your release day and then dont release anything more than a couple of photos and a terribel 'we make bats' video people are going to offer their opinion based upon what youve released. If you want them to make their opinion based upon facts then give them them some or none at all!
The original Purist didnt have an offset edge either but seems to be a shape I've seen somewhere else recently!!
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I think the main reason for the 'backlash' on here is the (on initial glimpse anyway) half hearted look to the 'retro' offering, which seems to most just to be a newish looking bat shape with newish looking stickers and the name Purist slapped on it. Maybe this isn't the case, time will tell.
The comments about branding are probably more aimed towards the Zona style stickers from last year. compared to the usual Gm stickers which usually mix fashion and tradition pretty well those were fairly ugly.
I quite like that a few of the bats are offered with flat or convex faces, but I think a 3rd option might be a bit over kill, and I'm not a fan of the FX parts added to the names, maybe I'm just a bit too much of a traditionalist for bat names that sound like fighter jets.
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I think you offer a good choice, but maybe people think its going a little to far with messing around with names and numbers. For me I dont really care about the name or range of a bat as long as i can pick it up and it feels right and the willow is good quality.
I dont mind the stickers on GM bats either, the stickers are better than GN for me (apart from Legend) as they arent as loud and brash.
Would have like to have seen an old school GM Diamond or GM Maestro but please dont ever bring back the GM Skipper!!
Thanks, we aim to please, but clearly have a tough audience of officionados on this forum! Curiously, our customers on Monday & Tuesday seem very pleased with what they saw.
Names, numbers. Each to their own, I don't think we should get too hung up on that.
Kind regards
Edward
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The original Purist didnt have an offset edge either but seems to be a shape I've seen somewhere else recently!!
I think the Purist 2 did and looks more like the New Purist:-
Purist 2
(http://www.maceysports.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/m/gm-purist-2009-bat_1.jpg)
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Thanks, we aim to please, but clearly have a tough audience of officionados on this forum! Curiously, our customers on Monday & Tuesday seem very pleased with what they saw.
Names, numbers. Each to their own, I don't think we should get too hung up on that.
Kind regards
Edward
How have sales in 2013 been in the UK Edward? Has the better weather led to a marked increase in the sales of bats?
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Edward are you hear representing gm or yourself on this forum?
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Thanks, we aim to please, but clearly have a tough audience of officionados on this forum! Curiously, our customers on Monday & Tuesday seem very pleased with what they saw.
Names, numbers. Each to their own, I don't think we should get too hung up on that.
Kind regards
Edward
Would these be the same officionados youre hoping will purchase your products and the same ones whose comments both good and bad you should value if you want to start heading in the right direction again!
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I think the Purist 2 did and looks more like the New Purist:-
Purist 2
([url]http://www.maceysports.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/m/gm-purist-2009-bat_1.jpg[/url])
Is it me or does this resemble Trotts shape quite a lot?
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Is it me or does this resemble Trotts shape quite a lot?
A little in the profile but more concaving that Trott's
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Is it me or does this resemble Trotts shape quite a lot?
not sure:-
(http://www.cricketdirect.co.uk/imagecache/e0ec9ded-1cfe-4161-ab4a-a100008a1717_340x340.jpg)
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Ed - When you have your release day and then dont release anything more than a couple of photos and a terribel 'we make bats' video people are going to offer their opinion based upon what youve released. If you want them to make their opinion based upon facts then give them them some or none at all!
The original Purist didnt have an offset edge either but seems to be a shape I've seen somewhere else recently!!
What video do you think is terrible? (note the spelling Mr Fingerz!)
People are entitled to their opinion at any time, we understand that. Our website will be live next week in line with the sequence of Trade Stockrooms that take place. We haven't released any pictures as it happens, but we did not prevent customers who attended on Tuesday from doing so. How very liberal is that.
The GM 2014 range is tremendous. Very considered, nicely executed.
Keep the faith.
Kind regards
Edward
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I think the main reason for the 'backlash' on here is the (on initial glimpse anyway) half hearted look to the 'retro' offering, which seems to most just to be a newish looking bat shape with newish looking stickers and the name Purist slapped on it. Maybe this isn't the case, time will tell.
The comments about branding are probably more aimed towards the Zona style stickers from last year. compared to the usual Gm stickers which usually mix fashion and tradition pretty well those were fairly ugly.
I quite like that a few of the bats are offered with flat or convex faces, but I think a 3rd option might be a bit over kill, and I'm not a fan of the FX parts added to the names, maybe I'm just a bit too much of a traditionalist for bat names that sound like fighter jets.
Am impressed that we have created a backlash without people even seeing the range! That takes some doing.
I can assure you there is nothing half-hearted about the range. It is coherent and considered. Time will indeed tell!
Kind regards
Edward
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How have sales in 2013 been in the UK Edward? Has the better weather led to a marked increase in the sales of bats?
Across the industry, the wet summer of 2012 basically resulted in one season's sales being split across two years. It has been gruesome for all. We knew that when we launched GM 2013 a year ago, but it did not deter us from launching new products.
As at now, retail stocks are pretty low, there is a lot more optimism about for a normalised 2014.
Good question - many thanks
Edward
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Would these be the same officionados youre hoping will purchase your products and the same ones whose comments both good and bad you should value if you want to start heading in the right direction again!
As I said above, we value all comment. The most constructive is often the hardest to listen to.
Nothing wrong with our direction in my view - tell me what you know. Indeed, tell me who you are.
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward are you hear representing gm or yourself on this forum?
I own the Company with my brother Richard. Have never posted anonymously on any Forum as what's the point?
Kind regards
Edward
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Was the purist an easy option to bring back? Did you consider any other classics?
What do you make of pretty much all the big boys following suit and bringing out a retro range?
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Like what i've seen so far, will make an initial judgement at Windsor, a further judgement after we host another GM test track event in our net, and then will make a final judgement about this time next year, ultimately it is my customers who decide what is 'good' not me.
Only slight bug bear is the lack of an invite to the day when some relatively local competition attended, despite them not being cricket specialist :(
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So I remember a few years ago when the GM last had a face lift (when the 3D stickers first came out) most forumites scoffed, but a few years down the line that particular flavour of GM branding is now established as the norm.
As others have mentioned, I'd have loved to see a retro purist, but I'm taking it that's not the direction GM wanted to take - I don't think the purist is attempting to be another scoop/dynadrive/bubble/v12 - looks more like a re-launch to me, as per the various incarnations of the Cannon (one if my all time fave GM bats) none of which were attempting to be throw backs, but evolutions instead.
I'm sure it will be easier assess the range in the flesh. When I saw the new look of another notts based bat maker I thought it was horrible, but soon grew on me once I had the product in my hand.
I'm also sure any comments being interpreted as 'derisory' have not been posted in a malicious manner - maybe a few comments on here have been blunt, but people are entitled to their opinion.
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How you guys can comment in the way they have without actually seeing the products... personally from the small bits I can see, there seems to be a classic GM theme through the kit - with a mixture of "modern" looking pads and "traditional" ones at various levels of protection, so people of all budget can look as close to their hero (sponsored) player as possible within their budget. Which is something I have always liked about GM kit.
The bat stickers aren't terribly clear from the pictures so we can't really comment.
As for the different face options - why not experiment a little and see what is most popular - personally I have an F2 bat and think it is a little flat, but like the size it makes you feel you have - so the F4.5 option makes sense. Given it will be down to personal preference it shouldn't be a big deal - certainly I think it is a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill.
The Icon, Argon and Octane are three awesome profiles - and the comments people have made on here previously back that up. The Purist seems a nice shape which is similar to one that other firms have used successfully, so fingers crossed.
The bags are similar, just with marginally tweaked colours
Personally I think it is a really classic range - certainly not one that merits the kind of criticism dished out.
The only thing we haven't seen is the really show stopper (like the Bubble for example) - but that is hardly a huge deal.
Given how competitive and at the same time restrictive the cricket equipment market is - I think the kit looks good and am amazed by the comments on here.
Now if there was a re-released GM Maestro in old Green and Blue livery - but with a similar shape to the Trott bat - then we would be talking ;) :D
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Ed - Tried to send you a PM but your mailbox is full.
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Was the purist an easy option to bring back? Did you consider any other classics?
What do you make of pretty much all the big boys following suit and bringing out a retro range?
Purist is a new bat. The name is an old favourite but for anyone to think we could just relaunch a similar shape to one that came out in 1996 - we would be crucified on forums such as this if we did that.
Launched the 1885 a couple of years back - green and blue livery, very traditional. Sales about 2% of our total.
Kind regards
Edward
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Surely you get no choice though Buzz - you get whatever hand me downs the stig can spare!
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Purist is a new bat. The name is an old favourite but for anyone to think we could just relaunch a similar shape to one that came out in 1996 - we would be crucified on forums such as this if we did that.
Thats where youre wrong, read the comments from the forum about the other brands which have released retro designs and youll see its all positive.
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Ed - Tried to send you a PM but your mailbox is full.
I don't really do PM's. If you don't wish to air something in public, feel free to email me elowy@unicorngroup.com
Kind regards
Edward
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How you guys can comment in the way they have without actually seeing the products... personally from the small bits I can see, there seems to be a classic GM theme through the kit - with a mixture of "modern" looking pads and "traditional" ones at various levels of protection, so people of all budget can look as close to their hero (sponsored) player as possible within their budget. Which is something I have always liked about GM kit.
The bat stickers aren't terribly clear from the pictures so we can't really comment.
As for the different face options - why not experiment a little and see what is most popular - personally I have an F2 bat and think it is a little flat, but like the size it makes you feel you have - so the F4.5 option makes sense. Given it will be down to personal preference it shouldn't be a big deal - certainly I think it is a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill.
The Icon, Argon and Octane are three awesome profiles - and the comments people have made on here previously back that up. The Purist seems a nice shape which is similar to one that other firms have used successfully, so fingers crossed.
The bags are similar, just with marginally tweaked colours
Personally I think it is a really classic range - certainly not one that merits the kind of criticism dished out.
The only thing we haven't seen is the really show stopper (like the Bubble for example) - but that is hardly a huge deal.
Given how competitive and at the same time restrictive the cricket equipment market is - I think the kit looks good and am amazed by the comments on here.
Now if there was a re-released GM Maestro in old Green and Blue livery - but with a similar shape to the Trott bat - then we would be talking ;) :D
Thanks Buzz - I certainly would recommend people seeing the range before jumping to conclusions. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, we are very interested in the discussion.
Am of overseas now, so replies may be a bit sporadic until mid next week.
Kind regards
Edward
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As for your derogatory comments about our staff, let me just say that it is an honour and a pleasure for me to work with the ladies and gents that we employ. I know them well and have absolutely the highest regard for them.
Didn't actually see Paul make any such comments - and having met the guy, I find the idea quite, erm, humorous. If a little unlikely!
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I have said the range is not really coherent, and the array of stickers/face types/names will be confusing. I appreciate some of this may be cleared up once a catalogue is released. But from what I've seen ordering a Six6 LE F4.5 hardly rolls off the tongue, particularly if the F4.5 or particular grade is only available on certain bats.
Do you think there could be some confusion from customers, as to the benefits and differences of each shape, sticker design and face type?
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I also think it is odd to see manufacturers offering this insane level of detail whilst abandoning long handles, long blades and the like. But that seems to be just my personal bug bear!
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Just to echo Buzz's point, I seem to remember a few grumbles last year. Why did the Halo go after 1 year, they all look similar and what's going on with the Zona etc etc. After a year the most people really like the Argon/Octane and for the most part all the concerns were addressed. As a customer I like choice. Having a midway point between F2 and F7 seems a great way of keeper the traditionalists onside but beefing up those edges. Looking forward to seeing the range in the flesh. That's really the acid test.
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I also think it is odd to see manufacturers offering this insane level of detail whilst abandoning long handles, long blades and the like. But that seems to be just my personal bug bear!
GM offer long handles across the range (except 303) they are made to customer request though.
The retailer is just as guilty here, we stock a tiny selection of long handle/long blades. Most customers wanting these are happy to wait for us to order them in.
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Stickers are just that...stickers. Some will like them and other will not its all a personal taste thing so can't judge a brand by that although some are so bad that it does deter customers. GM's case the stickers are not bad, maybe not to everyone's taste but definitely not bad. Anyone remember the salix stickers for 2013? with the cracked stone/vinyl look. I thought were horrendous but Paul (IJC) assured me they looked better in flesh. To be honest they do look better in flesh so lets extend that same courtesy to GM.
As for retro shapes, I think if its not a Purist it could have been called something else. All the people who are in love with the Purist were the ones who would have gone for the range first and thats where disappointment might come from. I have never had the original scoop, dynadrive, bubble or purist but when they came out I did go buy them all due to all the hype I wanted to see what is it that people loved about them. So if the Purist lovers are going to say "its not the same" then it might impact some of the sort of neutral customers like me from going after that range considering I already like the Epic, Icon and now Argon chosing a Purist over these might be a tough call for me
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Across the industry, the wet summer of 2012 basically resulted in one season's sales being split across two years. It has been gruesome for all. We knew that when we launched GM 2013 a year ago, but it did not deter us from launching new products.
As at now, retail stocks are pretty low, there is a lot more optimism about for a normalised 2014.
Good question - many thanks
Edward
Thanks for answering my question Edward, great to have a big brand like GM happy to interact with customers even when we can be a picky bunch ;)
Hope that 2014 is more buoyant as you suggest
Phil C
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As someone who only ever liked the GM livery on the two classic GMs that I have (the green and yellow mid-nineties colours) I'm a little indifferent as to what I've seen here, or other recent branding. Having said that, I rather liked what I saw of the Zona when I saw it in the flesh, when the pictures really didn't look that good.
On that basis, while I would have liked the Maestro and Purist names to represent a retro, rather than a redux, product, I'll reserve judgement on everything else until I actually see it in a shop.
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Lots of diplomatic responses on this thread. Makes my views seem damning in comparison! Perhaps I should wait until I see the range in the flesh in a fortnight, but my main concerns about GM were about the confusing range, and lack of imagination in the branding. Even the Purist looks fairly generic, and far from the stand-out that it should have been. Bottom line is the photos and other info revealed on here have done enough damage for me, and my concerns have only grown since seeing them. This is not what I was hoping to see from GM in 2014, especially given what Gray-Nics and Kook have done with their new ranges respectively.
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Here are a few clearer pics. The idea on the day was not to take hundreds of pictures or capture every minute detail - that would have been taking advantage of GM's generosity. For the nerds among us, I'm sorry but didn't measure the depth of the embossing on the stickers or the number of ripples in the grips. The few pictures are just to give you a flavour :)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698763498_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698763510_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698763523_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698763538_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698763552_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698763564_o.jpg)
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To GM's credit, one thing I do like about them is their grips. They are always innovative with grips and have turned out some really good ones in recent years. These rippled ones are another great example from what I can tell. If only they applied the same innovation to the branding and other products in the range...
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Might have to stock up on control grips then, really like them.
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We try and listen to all feedback, good and bad.
Have you seen the range? Do you know what "options", as you say, we are offering?
Kind regards
Edward
I have not seen the kit in person no, then again what percentage of your sales were online compared to instore? I have seen what's been released through the pictures on this forum and information from other sources such as CI - I second Tom's point, it's very confusing for the end customer with the names and the amount of options available. This also means the retailers will have to stock 3 different 'F' types of your range in the same weight for one model of bat if they want to offer the full range which I assume not all will be able to do. For me this alienates the general consumer.
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Might have to stock up on control grips then, really like them.
Don't need to - already have plenty in stock! :)
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I dont see why GM can take claim to those grips as they have been in production for quite a while now by Indian companies
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I dont see why GM can take claim to those grips as they have been in production for quite a while now by Indian companies
I don't think they are taking claim to them
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I dont see why GM can take claim to those grips as they have been in production for quite a while now by Indian companies
Really? I didn't know that. I've never seen any grips like this before...
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Ok sorry just thought by looking at them and from the response that they are unique to GM and that they designed them.
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Did anyone notice the ruler straight grains and finish on that Six6 or are we all concerned more about stickers and colours?
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Just read this post and shocked at just how defensive and aggressive Edward's comments about his new GM range. This is no way to build up a brand reputation. You just have to take criticism on board and accept you'll never please everyone just as some people who like Sainsbury's dislike Tesco's and vice versa.
Personally I find the GM stickers as dull as ditch water, a cross between traditional and Asian brand big letters. Sorry just doesn't do it for me and no matter how good the bats are I wouldn't consider one while they look like that. Look at Salix, they have changed their stickers 3 or 4 times over the last few years. They always look classy and aren't afraid to change and be different. GM should be classy and play on their heritage more as they are one of the oldest bat makers, as well as have some funky styles to appeal to all ages. Well that's my opinion anyway.
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I have not seen the kit in person no, then again what percentage of your sales were online compared to instore? I have seen what's been released through the pictures on this forum and information from other sources such as CI - I second Tom's point, it's very confusing for the end customer with the names and the amount of options available. This also means the retailers will have to stock 3 different 'F' types of your range in the same weight for one model of bat if they want to offer the full range which I assume not all will be able to do. For me this alienates the general consumer.
I look forward to your thoughts when you have seen what you are commenting on.
We are business to business, we supply the retail trade around the world. We don't sell on line.
Kind regards
Edward
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Lots of diplomatic responses on this thread. Makes my views seem damning in comparison! Perhaps I should wait until I see the range in the flesh in a fortnight, but my main concerns about GM were about the confusing range, and lack of imagination in the branding. Even the Purist looks fairly generic, and far from the stand-out that it should have been. Bottom line is the photos and other info revealed on here have done enough damage for me, and my concerns have only grown since seeing them. This is not what I was hoping to see from GM in 2014, especially given what Gray-Nics and Kook have done with their new ranges respectively.
As with other posters, I very much look forward to hearing your comments when you have actually seen what you passed judgement on.
Kind regards
Edward
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Did anyone notice the ruler straight grains and finish on that Six6 or are we all concerned more about stickers and colours?
They aren't going to put out anything else though are they!? To me they've lost their mojo
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Just read this post and shocked at just how defensive and aggressive Edward's comments about his new GM range. This is no way to build up a brand reputation. You just have to take criticism on board and accept you'll never please everyone just as some people who like Sainsbury's dislike Tesco's and vice versa.
Personally I find the GM stickers as dull as ditch water, a cross between traditional and Asian brand big letters. Sorry just doesn't do it for me and no matter how good the bats are I wouldn't consider one while they look like that. Look at Salix, they have changed their stickers 3 or 4 times over the last few years. They always look classy and aren't afraid to change and be different. GM should be classy and play on their heritage more as they are one of the oldest bat makers, as well as have some funky styles to appeal to all ages. Well that's my opinion anyway.
Defensive and aggressive! Excellent.
Thanks for your views, sorry we don't come up to scratch for you
Kind regards
Edward
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They aren't going to put out anything else though are they!? To me they've lost their mojo
:o
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Edward, how will all these comments (and those that are likely to follow from the general public in due course) influence the range moving forward? By listening to the views of your customers, can we expect to see sweeping changes for 2015??
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Looks like a 2013/14 factory visit is out the window.
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If we can steer away from all the b1tch1ness for a minute, I wonder if Edward could enlighten us as to the design theory behind the current GM decals because I really don't understand it - for me, the one think GM always had was a classic look to match the brand history, but now they seem to be apeing SS (that is to say, Sareen Sports) in their look. Is this a response to their perception of the modern marketplace?
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:o
Well that's a grown up response. Ed as I've said to you I love GM I just think you've lost your edge. Unfortunately the attitude you've shown to negative comments will certainly not help you in selling your product. I do hope you use the comments constructively and GM moves forward and stops standing still
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I think I could be the only person on this forum that has never used anything from any GM range. Since signing up here I have noticed that there are plenty of GM lovers on this forum and were perhaps even making me think seriously about giving GM a go.
This thread has sent me in reverse though. Not as a result of the range being offered but as a result of the thread itself. The range looks pretty good to me and the variety isn't really that confusing. More and more people on here discuss custom bats or a particular shape / style they like so GM are looking to try and cater for a few more tastes which is great in my opinion.
Something that is leaving a sour taste though is the sheer volume of responses to comments and opinions which aren't direct questions. Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean it is wrong and that all of a sudden they claim to know much more than GM as a company. To even then belittle someone because they have made a spelling error is really poor form. Ending every message with kind regards does not change the nature of the message that has been typed.
I wish GM all the best with their new range and continue to try and improve on all levels of the company.
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Slightly disappointed with some of the tone in this thread, but the forum is probably a drop I the ocean for GM
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Some great looking products there!! I love the new grips they look fab. I wish GM all the best 4 the future. Have to say I think you should sign Steve smith to GM to help push the brand on a bit in Oz!!!
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Looks like a 2013/14 factory visit is out the window.
Always happy to do that. Not sure anyone will want to come however!
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I think Edward should be given the chance to explain (certainly not defend, just discuss!) the thinking behind the new range, rather than answer comment by comment. I'm sure a lot of time and effort went into GM 2014 and it would be nice to hear the logic from the man himself. As bat nerds we all have our own views but GM can't please all people. However, an understanding of what GM is trying to achieve in 2014 would be most welcome.
I'm up for a factory visit ;)
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CBF Admin team will be happy to liaise with Edward when he gets back re: factory visit. I guess those people who think GM is going nowhere, need not apply
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Edward, how will all these comments (and those that are likely to follow from the general public in due course) influence the range moving forward? By listening to the views of your customers, can we expect to see sweeping changes for 2015??
But you haven't actually seen the 2014 range?
Kind regards
Edward
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One of the things I will say though , although this is one of the few places a brand will actually get hype for a new range of cricket bats/equipment , when you say an official launch date , and announce it publicly through media such as twitter and stuff we all assume its a public launch , not to a select few employees and retailers! This kind of kills all the hype a brand gets for a new range on forums such as these when the products are actually released to the public.
That's just my opinion :).
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Well that's a grown up response. Ed as I've said to you I love GM I just think you've lost your edge. Unfortunately the attitude you've shown to negative comments will certainly not help you in selling your product. I do hope you use the comments constructively and GM moves forward and stops standing still
Actually it's a response to a heap of comments by folk who have not actually seen the range. I don't know what you don't approve of about my responses but I am extremely passionate about our staff and our products, and have a reasonable knowledge of what we do. I am not about to just sit back and leave unchallenged comments about products that only two people in this thread have actually seen - and one of them is me!
I have no problem with any comments on any aspect of any of our businesses, but I'll call it as I see it.
Kind regards - although even this seems to cause offence!
Edward
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But you haven't actually seen the 2014 range?
Kind regards
Edward
Ed, you're missing the point again! GM held an event and allowed photos to be taken and published online without following up very soon after with officially images and information. From what is visible it doesn't show your product as being everything you say. The way you have then conducted yourself with the you're wrong and I'm right attitude has certainly not endeared yourself to the masses.
If I think otherwise when I see the range I will happily retract all my comment and apologise.
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I find it staggering that Ed has the balls to come on and face this barrage, many would've signed off ages ago.
Fair Play Ed, how many Internationally recognised companies do we have this sort of access to on the forum?
Shame you got rid of the Epic but its good news for me as hopefully i will find a cut price LE somewhere.
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Slightly disappointed with some of the tone in this thread, but the forum is probably a drop I the ocean for GM
All feedback is very important to us. How have I disappointed?
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I find it staggering that Ed has the balls to come on and face this barrage, many would've signed off ages ago.
Fair Play Ed, how many Internationally recognised companies do we have this sort of access to on the forum?
Shame you got rid of the Epic but its good news for me as hopefully i will find a cut price LE somewhere.
Just standing up for my company and my people Mr Bird! Thanks for your message, much appreciated
Kind regards
Edward
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F-Tech face curvatures - 3 different curvatures available, butnot in all the models:
([url]http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/698309966_o.jpg[/url])
I haven't seen the range, but I've seen this chart, and that's where most of my concerns lie. Not only is it confusing for the end customer, but also for us as a retailer. Essentially, if we wanted to stock GM and do it justice, we'd have to buy in three times as many bats than we would with the others. Many cricket specialist shops like ourselves have to be very picky with our stock, and simply don't have the finances or capacity to stock 10 of each, like the bigger boys do. Based on this, we will look elsewhere. Simple as that...
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I find it staggering that Ed has the balls to come on and face this barrage, many would've signed off ages ago.
Fair Play Ed, how many Internationally recognised companies do we have this sort of access to on the forum?
Shame you got rid of the Epic but its good news for me as hopefully i will find a cut price LE somewhere.
I agree to that but Ed has got to understand that all the negative comments are around the same points but according to the guy we are all wrong and he is right....hang on a minute isn't it our money he wants us to spend on GM products maybe we have a point after all?!
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Ed, you're missing the point again! GM held an event and allowed photos to be taken and published online without following up very soon after with officially images and information. From what is visible it doesn't show your product as being everything you say. The way you have then conducted yourself with the you're wrong and I'm right attitude has certainly not endeared yourself to the masses.
If I think otherwise when I see the range I will happily retract all my comment and apologise.
It was Tuesday. Today is Thursday. Perhaps we should have put an embargo on customers taking pictures. But actually, they are our customers and we are very relaxed with them.
I am sorry if you take exception to how I conduct myself, perhaps forum posters are not used to being challenged.
Kind regards
Edward
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I haven't seen the range, but I've seen this chart, and that's where most of my concerns lie. Not only is it confusing for the end customer, but also for us as a retailer. Essentially, if we wanted to stock GM and do it justice, we'd have to buy in three times as many bats than we would with the others. Many cricket specialist shops like ourselves have to be very picky with our stock, and simply don't have the finances or capacity to stock 10 of each, like the bigger boys do. Based on this, we will look elsewhere. Simple as that...
Paul, with respect, do you stock any single bat in all the weights available?
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I don't see anything wrong with Edward's responses to comments based on absolutely no knowledge of the product.
When and how they make available the product or product pictures and details is their company decision.
Cricket now is all about experimenting and innovating and lets give credit to GM for at least daring / trying to experiment.
There is no product in the world that satisfies all consumers.
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It was Tuesday. Today is Thursday. Perhaps we should have put an embargo on customers taking pictures. But actually, they are our customers and we are very relaxed with them.
I am sorry if you take exception to how I conduct myself, perhaps forum posters are not used to being challenged.
Kind regards
Edward
Challenged ...I have no problem in that at all Ed....do you?!
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I haven't seen the range, but I've seen this chart, and that's where most of my concerns lie. Not only is it confusing for the end customer, but also for us as a retailer. Essentially, if we wanted to stock GM and do it justice, we'd have to buy in three times as many bats than we would with the others. Many cricket specialist shops like ourselves have to be very picky with our stock, and simply don't have the finances or capacity to stock 10 of each, like the bigger boys do. Based on this, we will look elsewhere. Simple as that...
And how ridiculous would it be to offer your customers a greater choice?
Truly, I would suggest that you actually see the range before coming to conclusions.
Kind regards
Edward
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Challenged ...I have no problem in that at all Ed....do you?!
Um, no, that's why I'm taking the time to respond
Kind regards
Edward
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Paul, with respect, do you stock any single bat in all the weights available?
But in fairness to him you could say he tries to stock as big a variety of specific models of bats as possible , but this kind of system makes it harder for him as he now has 3 extra different variables for the bats.
Edit : But in response to Edward , he's going to end up offering his customers less choice than they expect because he will be unable to stock EVERY bat in every different different face style.
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I agree to that but Ed has got to understand that all the negative comments are around the same points but according to the guy we are all wrong and he is right....hang on a minute isn't it our money he wants us to spend on GM products maybe we have a point after all?!
There is a whole world out there that wont know what the old Purist looked like, or what a flat face is. More numbers on a product just means more for the salesman to remember. Your avergage Joe will just walk in and see a blue bat and buy it.
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The range seems decent enough, I'm not sure about the 3 different choices of pressing, as I'm guessing it will be a nightmare for a retailer to try stock all of that to cater for the customers' needs! I personally like a mix, so a 4.5 would probably be ideal for me, and I think the Purist shape is actually quite nice from what I've seen, I just wouldn't really associate it with the Purist I remember Vaughn using! The point about the 1885 not being a good seller is very important to note, which showed that GM needed a different angle from the traditionally shaped Purist! (Remember, the majority of cricket players aren't members of this forum, and like different things!) Big edges and no concaving = too heavy. Big edges and small amount of concaving = too similar to the Argon. Small edges = not a big seller.
Like Edward says, I think we will need to actually have a better look at the range before we can formulate a proper opinion, and I understand him being defensive, just don't know whether these comments are the right way to go about it... Hopefully all these queries will be cleared up by the time the official pictures are launched.
The main thing I think which put me off GM this year was the handle thickness and shape, I hope that this has changed for the 2013/2014 range! (Really liked the Flare and Halo handle shapes!)
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Paul, with respect, do you stock any single bat in all the weights available?
Of course not! And it's good to have a choice, but I think too much choice is a bad thing.
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I look forward to your thoughts when you have seen what you are commenting on.
We are business to business, we supply the retail trade around the world. We don't sell on line.
Kind regards
Edward
Exactly, so how are you sure that with all of the possible combinations that a single bat model can have is being successfully portrayed to the customer?
Well I have seen enough to make my opinion on the 2014 range, it's not exactly that much different from last season, or the season before that really. You realise you potentially have customers that do not view your bats 'in person', so please be aware that these customers will go on what pictures they see online.
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But in fairness to him you could say he tries to stock as big a variety of specific models of bats as possible , but this kind of system makes it harder for him as he now has 3 extra different variables for the bats.
Edit : But in response to Edward , he's going to end up offering his customers less choice than they expect because he will be unable to stock EVERY bat in every different different face style.
I did have a similar thought when I first heard of the 3 face curves ... However, every retailer is in the same position and not just from GM. They can't stock every model of every brand, let alone every weight. GM are not forcing anyone to stock all 3 types, nor all models. Gray Nicolls have huge number of model/grade combinations, many more than GM. Paul won't be stocking all of them and therefore he is offering his customers less choice. So will Paul not be stocking GN or Kook, any maybe sticking to the smaller brands who may offer a couple of models only? I doubt it. he will pick and choose the ones he feels are right for his business and his customers. But he doesn't know who is going to walk through the door tomorrow. If he can offer the choice of maybe an F7 and F2, then have an F4.5 as a special order, I can't see anything wrong with that.
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Um, no, that's why I'm taking the time to respond
Kind regards
Edward
I'm sorry Ed but we are going to have to disagree on this. I feel that generally what stops a company moving forward is arrogance in the belief we are the best. In my opinion this is what has happened, with the arrogance you have shown to many here today for voicing their opinions well I think you can guess where I'm going on that!
Please listen to the comments, they are not aimed at you or GM to cause harm. We are your potential customers and sometimes we are right
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Lets face it the new GM range... On looks alone may not be everyone's cup of tea... But I guarantee the bats produced will be awesome in performance... I'm not a big GM user but have owned a couple and over the last 20 odd years of my cricket and both performed excellently.... I would love to see a real retro bat come out of GM, as would everyone, but it doesn't have to be the exact shape and profile. I think everyone is waiting to see genuine retro stickers Ed that's all... Bring on the modern shapes but give us some retro stickers to relive our youth
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If he can offer the choice of maybe an F7 and F2, then have an F4.5 as a special order, I can't see anything wrong with that.
Do you really think customers will come in, and say "I want an Icon F4.5"? I really believe the majority will look in store, and maybe ask for an Icon if a friend recommended it. People ask for bats by name. They have a "Kahuna", they have an "Icon" or a "Scoop" some may even have a "Mongoose". They then buy the grade which they feel most represents the standard of cricket they play, or what they can afford.
Now when a customer comes in, and asks for an Icon the retailer will reply "Yes, sure - F2, F4.5 or F7?"
99% of customers will reply, "What?" and this is why I think the whole F2, F4.5, F7 is superfluous. And just adds confusion.
Edit: Let me add though - historically that is how I have felt that bats have been bought. There is no reason to say why with education and support from retailers, and education of the customers that the different face types can't become an option without being too confusing.
I'm not a fan of giving customers too much choice on core products, but GM are giving it a go and I guess we'll see how it fares.
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Do you really think customers will come in, and say "I want an Icon F4.5"? I really believe the majority will look in store, and maybe ask for an Icon if a friend recommended it. People ask for bats by name. They have a "Kahuna", they have an "Icon" or a "Scoop" some may even have a "Mongoose". They then buy the grade which they feel most represents the standard of cricket they play, or what they can afford.
Now when a customer comes in, and asks for an Icon the retailer will reply "Yes, sure - F2, F4.5 or F7?"
99% of customers will reply, "What?" and this is why I think the whole F2, F4.5, F7 is superfluous. And just adds confusion.
I agree to some extent here.
GM do provide free of charge point of sale banners etc though, these do a good job of explaining what is what.
As a retailer I feel it is my job to educate myself on areas like this so I can explain things to customers in a way they understand.
We did not stock every bat in every face flatness/roundness option this year and are unlikely to do so this year, we will always order anything in to meet requests though.
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I think customer choice is a differentiator for gm here
having said that, if I was a retailer, I would mostly stock the f4.5 face bats as the in between option.
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Always happy to do that. Not sure anyone will want to come however!
Great stuff, and as I missed out in 2010 I'll put myself forward. :)
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I think customer choice is a differentiator for gm here
I'd love for GM to go the whole hog with a NikeID style bat design PC. You could solve the confusion thing there with careful UX design.
I guess some could see this as halfway house to that, with retailers no doubt having to order more bats in to suit Fx requests. But I think that halfway house is just a little confusing, particularly with face roundness not something people often request in a bat.
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I'd love for GM to go the whole hog with a NikeID style bat design PC. You could solve the confusion thing there with careful UX design.
I guess some could see this as halfway house to that, with retailers no doubt having to order more bats in to suit Fx requests. But I think that halfway house is just a little confusing, particularly with face roundness not something people often request in a bat.
20 years ago people didn't want 40mm edges either Tom. Maybe this is they way of the future
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I don't log into the forum, for four hours and the first thing I see is this thread, and, wow!
Loads of opinions and Edward supporting his company. I think the thing that stands out most for me is that the 100 or so contributors in the topic make up the tiniest proportion of the gm market and I'd be very surprised if there was no market research involved in the range. I'll wait till I see it in person, but I think tom it's not so far from the truth when he says that people will first want a gm bat and second a model. The face style will initially appeal to a smaller subset, and who knows how this may change.
You could look at this as GM taking a brave approach to change the way in which the bats they sell are marketed, along with the idea of pick up index and no weight listed...
I'm looking forward to seeing this stuff properly
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Now that the gear has been launched does anybody know when us mere mortals may see the range in all it's glory online?.....it's this time of year when I plan what I'm going to spend my money on and then where I'm going to hide it from the wife........
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Now that the gear has been launched does anybody know when us mere mortals may see the range in all it's glory online?.....it's this time of year when I plan what I'm going to spend my money on and then where I'm going to hide it from the wife........
GM will launch on their website next week i think i read.
The trade show is 18th and 19th Sept. We will have prices and pictures etc from then, will take me a while to get stuff put on pur website, but will always bring offers to the forum first.
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I'm sorry Ed but we are going to have to disagree on this. I feel that generally what stops a company moving forward is arrogance in the belief we are the best. In my opinion this is what has happened, with the arrogance you have shown to many here today for voicing their opinions well I think you can guess where I'm going on that!
Please listen to the comments, they are not aimed at you or GM to cause harm. We are your potential customers and sometimes we are right
No problem in disagreeing about things and if you perceive me as arrogant in talking about my company and its products, then so be it. However, you seem to start from the mistaken belief that we are not going forward. You are fundamentally wrong in that assertion, our bat sales and share globally have grown substantially over the years through our investment and innovation with DXM processes.
GM is the largest bat manufacturer in the UK, the technology we use is the most advanced of any cricket firm anywhere in the world. We are very proud of these facts, that we have not abrogated our brand values to a stickering operation in India. If our products and actions do not find favour with you, that is disappointing for me, but I respect your right to brand choice absolutely. We are pragmatic in understanding that we will not suit everyone.
Kind regards
Edward
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Wow, just read through this topic and I am astounded in peoples attitudes towards Edward in this thread and the sheer aggressive nature of posts towards someone whom I'm sure has a very busy schedule but has taken time out to support the forum and put forward this new range and the funny thing is majority of people slamming GM will also be those begging for a factory visit which Edward kindly offers the forum. How many big brands would actually take time to visit this forum and share some of the new range? How many MD's of worldwide organisations actually take time to interact with customers and discuss a new product? As Edward has said I'm not sure how you can slam a whole range based on a couple of preview images which has been shared on here. And with regards to GM not moving forward they make subtle changes each year which in my opinion always look good whilst maintaining the GM brand image and quality what is the point of changing something which isn't broken? The Porsche 911 has barely changed over its entire lifespan yet it still remains in production and by all accounts still sells to customers GM remains an established and successful brand which is more than can be said for other companies on the market. I'm sure a lot of research has gone into the range and Edward and his team didn't wake up one morning and decide this was what was going to be put into production. Is the blatant attack on GM simply because they are one of the "big boys" and one of the successful brands and not one of the smaller boutique handmade brands which everyone on here seems so keen to support? If this was one of the smaller brands I dare say the nature of replies and the feedback would be a lot different...
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I'd like to echo Outlaw and others posters - some of the comments towards Edward are completely out of order, and some people should take a good look at themselves and their conduct!
On a more positive note, I'd like to know why their are two different types of stickers re the six6 and purist - are GM doing a bit of live field testing to see what people like?
I've personally loved the last few years of GM stickers, I own both an Epic and Flare and the profiles/branding are spot on. The raised profile of the logo is a nice touch and the stickers always seem well made compared to a lot of others.
One thing I love about GM is they always have at least one non-concaved bat, whereas a lot of brands are concaving the (No Swearing Please) out of their bats purely to get huge edges.
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People posted an initial opinion on the new GM stuff based on what they had seen. Perhaps understandably Edward came on to defend both the products and his company/staff.
While it's good to have Edward (and indeed anyone from any brand) posting on here, I don't think GM should be free from criticism purely because he does, especially as his last post was over a year ago!Perhaps some see the criticims as being a bit aggressive in tone, but I don't think Edwards initial replies (however understandable) really helped the situation. Pulling members of the forum up for spelling etc.
There shouldn't be different standards for different posters regardless of who they are.
A Porsche is not a purchase where people tend just to walk into a shop and wave a few about before picking one with pretty labels, a cricket bat is a relatively small purchase and as such i imagine your average punter (not CB forumer) doesn't give it too much thought before he is on the website/in the shop. So it's a fairly silly comparison, cricket bats haven't changed much over time, but the branding does seem to change fairly speedily.
As for your other point, Kookaburra and Slazenger are hardly smaller brands, yet people have been raving about the new Kook stuff and the Slaz stuff got a mixed reaction.
Anyway, i think it's good to have some strong opinions on here, it's more exciting with some debate 8so long as it's kept civil) than with everyone cooing over the same bats!
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To be fair, Ed seems to have gone to the same PR school as Jason Hammer.
Look forward to the (revolutionary) full GM line up for 2014 once it gets a full release...
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I like the gear, if it's successful, then why tweak it too much. (hence the pads and gloves have been similar for years) Technology and the science of bat making moves on. And GM with the 3 edge options are trying to stick with that. Don't see a problem. Can't see it being a sticking point on buying a bat, but whats it to you, if you want to choose, choose, if not buy a different brand or deal with it.
There are lots of good suggestions for the future throughout this thread, I don't think they are being put across very well in certain cases.
How many big companies care even in the slightest enough to come on here and defend their new technology? None I bet!
I think the new range is nice, the new Six6 branding is a good colour scheme and the pads and gloves will be top notch as normal!
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Really looking forward to seeing the bats in the flesh I am not a fan off the stickers but everyone's taste is different
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Jesus, when people have a point to make they sure get riled up.
Let's just look at a few things here.
For me, GM make the best performing bats (or that suit me), that hasn't changed. Sure the stickers are not to everyone's taste, but neither were the current ones when they were first launched.
To say they're not moving forward is complete BS, what's the DXM process all about then?
Irrelevant of how they look, I think GM have the most consistent QC across all ranges which is why I have all their gear.
Credit to Edward for putting up with this and still replying in a tasteful manner.
Bring on my Purist
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Always happy to do that. Not sure anyone will want to come however!
I'd happily come, been 16 years since I was last there! still remember the teachers red face as a bunch of 9/10 years old pointed out the naked calender. Afraid to say I swiped a purist sticker which I think I still have at mums house.
Ed, any chance of a forum Ask the batmaker with one of your batmakers? Would be great to know more about the start to finish process of GM from a forumite nerd aspect.
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May I come to GM please. I'll be good.
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May I come to GM please. I'll be good.
I fear they may have to do security checks on the way out if you go mate ;)
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Please, I'll be more of a pest for sponsorship haha.
"Don't you know who I am?"
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To those who think Six6 stickers look inferior. Few months ago, Ton (SS) original stickers sold for 50 plus pounds whereas GN e41stickers sold for 30 during the same time on ebay. Maybe we aren't really an accurate representative of the general public.
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For me, GM make the best performing bats (or that suit me), that hasn't changed.
But you haven't actually seen the 2014 range?
Truly, I would suggest that you actually see the range before coming to conclusions.
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For me, GM bats have always been pressed too hard. Even the LE bats that we've stocked have been harder pressed than most Newbery 5 Stars, despite costing over £200 more. I prefer softer pressed bats, and so do most of our customers, so naturally, I don't warm to the brand, especially given the alternatives on the market.
It's not just the stickers, branding, staff etc. that don't impress me. Quite frankly I have been less than impressed with the way my comments have been dealt with by a GM representative on here. Yes, it's great that he's taking the time out to respond, but for me, his responses have no substance, and the fact that he hasn't posted on any other threads for over a year kind of tells the story to me...
If I, or other users on here, have some feedback - however critical it might be - why can't it be seen an being constructive? It's the whole "you're wrong, I'm right" attitude that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth for me.
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FYI - Ed was kind enough to spend some time on here because Arvind and I asked him too, rather than timing his appearance just for the new kit.
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It would have been interesting to hear how GM got there with their new range, the thought behind the range, some of which may nullify some of the arguments and help people understand the range as well as being interesting for forum members.
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Maybe we aren't really an accurate representative of the general public.
I take that as a compliment to be honest.
One thing I would add to the new GM bat line up and the choice of 3 different faces on some models, is that in my experience this season the majority of GM bat owners I spoke to about their bats where totally unaware of what the F2 etc referred to, these weren't bat geeks but those normal club players. So to add another face option in to the mix for next season is an interesting move on GM's part.
Having said that for knowledgeable bat users like ourselves, surely having more choice in a major bat company's range is good. Would I want a bat with a F2 face -not really, one with F4.5, yes I'd look at that model.
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For me, GM bats have always been pressed too hard. Even the LE bats that we've stocked have been harder pressed than most Newbery 5 Stars, despite costing over £200 more. I prefer softer pressed bats, and so do most of our customers, so naturally, I don't warm to the brand, especially given the alternatives on the market.
Paul, that's an interesting observation that I'd suggest is extremely hard to prove without actually seeing and measuring the pressure being applied to different bats. While you may not like the way that GM press their bats, I'd suggest that saying they press them too hard is a risky business.
Equally, given the gist of your comments in this topic, I'm assuming you no longer stock and will not ever stock GM again?
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From my point of view GM led the way in technology and progress in developing DXM and the D30 protection system. Whilst ground breaking achievements are not going to happen every year you would expect the market leader (as they were in my opinion) to move forward in capturing more market share in other ways. This could be in creating a bold and brave look or creating a more radical look to their softs.
Now whilst I cant comment on exactly what everything will look like (GM had an official and public release yet didn't release anything official or to the public!) let me just say from those images published, the Softs do look very very similar, the luggage looks the same just a change of colour and the livery on the bats looks a little bland.
The analogy to Porsche is irrelevant in some ways but very pertinent in others. The 911 is a very iconic image which over the years has been changed minimally now whilst GM have made very little change to their current range they have added the 'iconic'(?) Purist however this doesn't look in anyway similar to the original.
Looking at other brands such as Slazenger and GN their 2014 range introduces some very bold statements some may like (correct typo before being ridiculed!) it some may not but at least they have done it whilst GM have played safe for 2014....AGAIN
Regarding the comments from Ed well don't get me started and for 'he's been kind enough to spend some time on here' stop blowing smoke up his bum. All he's done is disagree but without anything to back it up and insult potential customers.
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(http://socialsafe.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/popcorn-fight.jpg?w=604)
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Paul, that's an interesting observation that I'd suggest is extremely hard to prove without actually seeing and measuring the pressure being applied to different bats. While you may not like the way that GM press their bats, I'd suggest that saying they press them too hard is a risky business.
Equally, given the gist of your comments in this topic, I'm assuming you no longer stock and will not ever stock GM again?
Accurate measurements or not, we knock in on average two bats per day by hand, so we get quite familiar with the pressing of various different models (especially as we don't just knock in bats sold in store). There's a fair amount of experience to back this up, despite the lack of scientific proof. I will let this matter rest for now though, as it's not really relevant to the thread.
As for us stocking GM, even if the new range blew my socks off and got me foaming at the mouth, I simply refuse to deal with a company who reacts the way they have to the comments in this thread. The words of Mr Lowry in my eyes prove that they aren't really listening to the customer, rather, they are just disagreeing with anything critical, and I cannot support a brand that behaves in this way.
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What video do you think is terrible? (note the spelling Mr Fingerz!)...
This type of condescending comment is not really nice coming from an MD looking to promote his brand. Sums up the general air of arrogance some have identified. But I'm sure GM does well enough without having to woo CB forumites...
Thanks, we aim to please, but clearly have a tough audience of officionados on this forum...
And that should be "aficionados". ;)
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I must say that some of the comments made towards GM, the equipment, the company, their marketing ability are bordering on personal insults, if they haven't crossed the line already.
I requested permission from GM to take a few pictures to give a flavour of the changes in the range, and particularly to allow the members of this forum to have a preview before the rest of the world. As far as I know, the GM sales reps were only allowed to see the range the day before we did.
There are ways of getting heard, and sweeping criticisms and personal snipes are unlikely to get heard in my opinion. GM are not looking to promote their brand at all on here, they are not wooing the CBF members.
If you're interested in seeing some changes for GM 2015, a series of constructive comments, with examples, would help to get your words heard.
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I haven't seen any posts that are bordering on personal insults. The whole thing seemed to start with Paul saying he wasn't really a fan of the direction that they seemed to be taking within two posts Edwards had pulled out a sarcastic
Ah right. Will bin the research. And the 128 years of know how. And the continuous development with our players.
That's hardly the response of someone wanting to hear constructive criticism. It's great that they let you take pictures so early in their launch process, but allowing that shouldn't leave them immune to people posting their opinion, whether positive or negative.
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Personally I don't agree with that CUSTOM-BATS
Most people have just expressed an opinion based on what they have seen and the reactions to those honest opinions have been the surprising factor to me.
Only my opinion though and as someone who hasn't bought anything GM for as long as I can remember not one I imagine anyone will take note of :)
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To be honest I don't blame Ed for his comments... I'm sure every person on here who owns a brand or is passionate about something would react the same way if they were told they had "Lost the plot" and were "boring" and their research was a waste of time even though their sponsored pros have tested and given feedback which I would say GM have listened to... And we all know how everyone wants a bat "just like the pros".
I know when GN brought their retro range out there were criticism in regards to stickers in the scoop not being the same... Not everyone was sold on the idea at the time.
In my opinion The Uk version of the Kook Bubble is the only retro done properly so far but hats off to all brands having a crack at it... Some get it right and some don't
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This type of condescending comment is not really nice coming from an MD looking to promote his brand. Sums up the general air of arrogance some have identified. But I'm sure GM does well enough without having to woo CB forumites...
And that should be "aficionados". ;)
Hoist by my own petard!
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This has been a truly interesting thread. A wonderful aspect of the forum is the opportunity to discuss equipment and this is often just based on pictures which we see. Opinions also change once people actually see and use the gear. This was the case with the GN retro range, with people initially being unhappy with the stickers not fitting properly, but when people got their bats stickers were the last of the concerns, especially on the Ltd Ed Dynadrives.
My opinion on the tone of the thread is that people can only comment on what is before them. If comments on the equipment was only going to be taken seriously by those who have seen the equipment, then only Custom Bats and Mr Lowy would have been the only ones to comment.
No one can doubt the technology involved in making GM cricket equipment and the history behind the brand.
Yours sincerely
Sedwyn
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having read the thread, why are all the moderators defending ed? why do they feel the need to?
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having read the thread, why are all the moderators defending ed? why do they feel the need to?
I don't think they are defending him, they just appreciate that he has taken time to contribute to the forum.
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Having read the thread a person who can't even knock up properly is saying too much.
I like gunn and Moore gear the zona looks ok in person and I have seen a few
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having read the thread, why are all the moderators defending ed? why do they feel the need to?
I wouldn't say we are defending Ed, but we do appreciate that he had come on here and is giving his opinion, and are simply trying to ensure there is a reasonable balance. Internet forums are notoriously bad at gang trolling by accident, and as I've already said in this thread, I would've liked to see something slightly different from what GM have produced, but what has been done won't have been done with heads buried in the sand, and the forum, is generally not representative of the cricketing world at large. We sometimes forget that...
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and the forum, is generally not representative of the cricketing world at large. We sometimes forget that...
you mean there are players who don't own 20 bats and open a new pair of inner gloves every hundred runs?
thats a frightening thought! :o
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Mr Lowry please may i ask why you do not release the icc branded "pro pads" to the general public i know it sounds a tad strange but i'm interested ??
I like the range in general
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Mr Lowry please may i ask why you do not release the icc branded "pro pads" to the general public i know it sounds a tad strange but i'm interested ??
I'm definitely interested in this too!
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I suspect it about brand recognition
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Good morning all. Just a note to let you know that the GM website is now live with details of the 2014 range. I have refrained from commenting more in this thread until you good folk can actually see what we are bringing to market.
Kind regards
Edward
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Mr Lowry please may i ask why you do not release the icc branded "pro pads" to the general public i know it sounds a tad strange but i'm interested ??
I like the range in general
Do you mean in terms of the specification of logo size / number?
Kind regards
Edward
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thanks Ed, I really like the use of navy trim!
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In terms of looks I'm a fan if all the new bats! Six6 is growing on me...
New gloves are 100% better then last years especially the Original and Original L.E!
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Having had a look at the complete range online this morning I'd like to say that I feel fully vindicated in my comments before. In an ever increasing market with many boutique brands delivering in providing what people want, GM's designs are lacking in identity. What do I like....ripple grips and the Original LE pads but always liked them.
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Just had a look at the GM website and it's reaffirmed what I thought - they still make superb products and still have the best cricket brand website out there.
I'm gutted they've dropped the Epic though as I really love mine - I've just bought some 909 pads and gloves to go with it ;-)
The 6six looks a great shape, but I agree with the comments about the purist - it bears no resemblance with the original at all bar the name - surely it's better to give it a totally new name? With GN and Kookaburra doing the retro bat thing so well I find it weird that GM haven't just modernised the profile a bit.
For me, GM have always had the best branding/stickers/decals and the best finished bats I've seen, and I can't see this changing anytime soon.
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GM's designs are lacking in identity.
One of the most recognisable/historic brands ever. You're joking right?
In an ever increasing market with many boutique brands delivering in providing what people want
What exactly are the boutique brands delivering that GM aren't, I'd love to know?
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Love the new softs. especially Original LE gloves.
Cant wait for the windsor trade show now.
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All looks good as usual except giving the Icon the horrible Zona stickers, and the disappointing return of the Purist.
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One of the most recognisable/historic brands ever. You're joking right?
What exactly are the boutique brands delivering that GM aren't, I'd love to know?
I lived opposite a guy who worked for Jaguar as a project manager for many years. The brief when he worked on the X type was to design the car but not loose the 'rear view mirror' test. By this it was meant that the driver in front when looking in the rear view mirror should know instantly that its a Jaguar. This was achieved however the design of the car was different to anything they'd done before.
The GM 2014 range has two different sticker sets on bats, a range of gloves where logos, wristbands are different on each pads which designs are the same as 2013 only tweaked with different colour trim and luggage sets which have only changed colours. A range of keeping pads which look ridiculous.
I'd expect a little more from GM.
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Love the new softs range, think they look awesome (minus d30, which has always been a bit loud for me). Bats seem to be no real change, and not a huge fan of the stickers although I'm a huge believer in 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Disappointed by the purist, yet understand the reasons for it! Definitely want a set of softs though! Slightly confused behind the reasoning for not changing the colourings of the 909 and 303 range, as this would probably be the point I would be looking at, and would have liked to see them a little more different?
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I think we should also give a massive amount of credit to the GM website - there is huge detail about the products the impact/sizes/weights/spectrum/middle position/stats about the gear etc on the website - all within 2 clicks.
Given that a huge amount of the GM sales will be through online shops - the fact that all this information is so easily available through their website is really impressive.
For example the explanation of the new face types and middle position and weight:
F-Type http://www.gm-cricket.com/heritage/technology/gm-f-tech.aspx (http://www.gm-cricket.com/heritage/technology/gm-f-tech.aspx)
Bat shapes: http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/mens-bat-shapes.aspx (http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/mens-bat-shapes.aspx)
Comparison of shapes: http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx (http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx)
Willow grading http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/willow-grading.aspx (http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/willow-grading.aspx)
Weights: http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/weight-comparison.aspx (http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/weight-comparison.aspx)
who else shows this much info so easily??
Any retailer can learn this stuff in about 15mins reading and should be able to explain it to their customers in simple language - or just pull out a laptop/iPad and demonstrate from the GM website...
compare that to GM/Puma/Kook/Adidas
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I think we should also give a massive amount of credit to the GM website - there is huge detail about the products the impact/sizes/weights/spectrum/middle position/stats about the gear etc on the website - all within 2 clicks.
Given that a huge amount of the GM sales will be through online shops - the fact that all this information is so easily available through their website is really impressive.
For example the explanation of the new face types and middle position and weight:
F-Type [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/heritage/technology/gm-f-tech.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/heritage/technology/gm-f-tech.aspx[/url])
Bat shapes: [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/mens-bat-shapes.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/mens-bat-shapes.aspx[/url])
Comparison of shapes: [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx[/url])
Willow grading [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/willow-grading.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/willow-grading.aspx[/url])
Weights: [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/weight-comparison.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/weight-comparison.aspx[/url])
who else shows this much info so easily??
Any retailer can learn this stuff in about 15mins reading and should be able to explain it to their customers in simple language - or just pull out a laptop/iPad and demonstrate from the GM website...
compare that to GM/Puma/Kook/Adidas
Thanks Buzz - actually there has been a glitch in the upload overnight so various of the data charts have not been updated to properly reflect the 2014 range. That's being sorted at the moment
Kind regards
Edward
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I think we should also give a massive amount of credit to the GM website - there is huge detail about the products the impact/sizes/weights/spectrum/middle position/stats about the gear etc on the website - all within 2 clicks.
Given that a huge amount of the GM sales will be through online shops - the fact that all this information is so easily available through their website is really impressive.
For example the explanation of the new face types and middle position and weight:
F-Type [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/heritage/technology/gm-f-tech.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/heritage/technology/gm-f-tech.aspx[/url])
Bat shapes: [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/mens-bat-shapes.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/mens-bat-shapes.aspx[/url])
Comparison of shapes: [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx[/url])
Willow grading [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/willow-grading.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/willow-grading.aspx[/url])
Weights: [url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/weight-comparison.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/weight-comparison.aspx[/url])
who else shows this much info so easily??
Any retailer can learn this stuff in about 15mins reading and should be able to explain it to their customers in simple language - or just pull out a laptop/iPad and demonstrate from the GM website...
compare that to GM/Puma/Kook/Adidas
Got to agree there
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I agree with Buzz. Great to have all that info on their site like that - iPad sales techniques for all!
For me it's obviously not that GM don't know what they're doing/talking about just that some of the branding is a little weak and slightly missing the tastes of the cricketing demographic. I feel that the whole brand has a sort of stuffy old school look and feel to it but then I suppose that really comes down to personal preference.
I certainly congratulate them on their hard work in providing as tailor made as possible off the shelf bats.
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Although there's a lot of info there, Buzz, and it's well explained, it's all a bit too much for me. Less is more, especially for the average customer who doesn't care about a lot of that stuff.
Although you wouldn't know it from reading this thread, my take is that GM are targeting more of the "cricketing geek" rather than your average Sunday cricketer. Not necessarily a bad thing, but a little strange given that they are one of the larger brands and the average Sunday cricketer market is bigger...
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In the past I have been occasionally accused of being stuffy and old school (unfairly in my view - just like Lords, which is the most forward thinking ground in the world) so I feel able to comment - I don't believe the branding is in anyway old school.
Some of it very much isn't to my taste - but that is the point of a huge brand - to offer variety to different demographics.
Look at the competition - GN to that really well with the Legend/Scoop style bats vs the more brash bats.
GM have the 1885 - for the really traditional and the Zona at the other end of the scale.
Clearly they have looked at their sales and felt that the more modern styling hits more of their target market and then pushed for that.
GM is not a boutique business - you have to understand the market place - on here we can be to micro in our views and tastes rather than understanding the macro position as well.
Although there's a lot of info there, Buzz, and it's well explained, it's all a bit too much for me. Less is more, especially for the average customer who doesn't care about a lot of that stuff.
Although you wouldn't know it from reading this thread, my take is that GM are targeting more of the "cricketing geek" rather than your average Sunday cricketer. Not necessarily a bad thing, but a little strange given that they are one of the larger brands and the average Sunday cricketer market is bigger...
Paul - I don't agree - In my view they are trying to demonstrate the value you get for buying a branded bat like GM - rather than a smaller/boutique brand option.
The other question I ask you is how often a Sunday cricketer buys a bat and whether having the Sunday cricketer as your target market would be as a sustainable business model.
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In the past I have been occasionally accused of being stuffy and old school (unfairly in my view - just like Lords, which is the most forward thinking ground in the world) so I feel able to comment - I don't believe the branding is in anyway old school.
Some of it very much isn't to my taste - but that is the point of a huge brand - to offer variety to different demographics.
Look at the competition - GN to that really well with the Legend/Scoop style bats vs the more brash bats.
GM have the 1885 - for the really traditional and the Zona at the other end of the scale.
Clearly they have looked at their sales and felt that the more modern styling hits more of their target market and then pushed for that.
GM is not a boutique business - you have to understand the market place - on here we can be to micro in our views and tastes rather than understanding the macro position as well.
I didn't say that the branding of the bats was old school or stuffy, nor that they do not cater to the entire Cricketing demographic, I was referring to the GM brand as a whole.
This for me comes down to my residual opinions formed in the last 10 or so years when they have at points (I feel) fallen behind the competition in their branding of some bats/softs etc. I am not commenting negatively on any of the range (from pictures) I have seen for this year, as actually I think they are starting to look very competitive. But brand association takes time to evolve and my point was that as it stands I still see them as being behind the competition in some areas.
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It's not really our market, Buzz, but I think it should be for GM, as a major brand.
I actually quite like the fact that they are so detailed with the bat info, especially with all the spine height and edge size etc. It's very useful info that not a lot of others convey very well, but the F7, F4.5 and F2 thing is my main issue. Even the GM reps thought the F2 and F7 options last year were confusing enough as it is, but now with the F4.5 added to the mix I think it's beyond confusing, and if the GM reps can't sell it, I'm not convinced we can either...
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This is hardly rocket science:
The GM F-Tech Programme
Cricketers like choice and the Gunn & Moore philosophy is to give cricketers the best possible choice in their bat selection – choice based on scientific research not guesswork.
As a direct result of GM’s continual research and development with our sports science partners, GM F-TECH provides cricketers with a better understanding of bat performance through more choice of bat faces.
Science becomes reality only through GM’s DXM CAD/CAM precision manufacturing processes.
The GM F-Tech Programme comprises:
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F7
GM’s proven bat face design gives the best feel to the batsman and the best power to weight ratio
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F4.5
Brand new! Confidence inspiring Big Bat design, optimised flatter face, improved spin control, great feel (approx 3/4oz more than F7)
---------------------------------------------------------
F2
Flat face, maximised edges for enhanced shot choice, immense power potential (approx 3/4oz more than F4.5)
So you get details around touch (curved in their view gives better feel) and weight.
This should help retailers - rather than saying look at the grains and stickers on this bat, doesn't it pick up well you can sell a bat more like a suit -
what kind of shots do you play
are you a hitter of a touch player
where in the order do you bat
you will have so many different ways to help the customer make an informed decision and choose a bat that works for them - much like the runners need model for selling trainers.
There will always be a large proportion of people who will just buy on the stickers - but this is a different (more forward looking??) way.
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It's not really our market, Buzz, but I think it should be for GM, as a major brand.
I actually quite like the fact that they are so detailed with the bat info, especially with all the spine height and edge size etc. It's very useful info that not a lot of others convey very well, but the F7, F4.5 and F2 thing is my main issue. Even the GM reps thought the F2 and F7 options last year were confusing enough as it is, but now with the F4.5 added to the mix I think it's beyond confusing, and if the GM reps can't sell it, I'm not convinced we can either...
As Buzz says I don't think the idea of offering the variety is wrong though Paul, do you not think?
However I do believe the way they have branded it (And I am not talking about sticker colouring or design, a brand is more than that) isn't particularly strong. I can see the logic behind it F for face, 7 or 4.5 or 2 for the extent of camber on the face.
But logical naming/branding A LA the motor industry has been proven in recent years to be a weaker sales point than an evocative word or "special edition" etc. Simpler is better. The word coming from most PR agencies these days is that numbers and acronyms on the whole should be avoided for products.
But as I say I don't think it's not going to sell nor that it isn't perfectly adequate and as you say Buzz in a lot of ways they are pushing the envelope. Yet as some other people have said, I do feel like they are missing a couple of tricks.
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What's wrong with a bat that only comes in a flat face and another bat that only comes in a round face? This has worked for all the other brands, so I don't see why it couldn't with GM. This is far less confusing and it makes the flatter face option stand out...
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F7
GM’s proven bat face design gives the best feel to the batsman and the best power to weight ratio
F4.5
Brand new! Confidence inspiring Big Bat design, optimised flatter face, improved spin control, great feel (approx 3/4oz more than F7)
F2
Flat face, maximised edges for enhanced shot choice, immense power potential (approx 3/4oz more than F4.5)
This isn't a criticism btw, but what do things like 'improved spin control', 'enhanced shot choice' and 'immense power potential' compared to 'the best power to weight ratio' actually mean?
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What's wrong with a bat that only comes in a flat face and another bat that only comes in a round face? This has worked for all the other brands, so I don't see why it couldn't with GM. This is far less confusing and it makes the flatter face option stand out...
In a word: Choice
I like the Icon shape but a more of a touch player - so I want a lighter bat with better feel
I like the Icon shape but am a massive slogger - so I want a heavier bat which can help with my off centre shots
I really don't think it is confusing at all. (Kulli - does that help you too?)
What we really should be asking about is the pressing and what"+ quantum improvements to the vital pressing operation" actually means in practice.
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I really don't think it is confusing at all. (Kulli - does that help you too?)
Do you think bat buyers will notice that their friend has an F7 DXM, whilst they have an F2 DXM? It isn't prominent on the stickers.
Also the Fx is only offered across certain lines, and ranges. 0 consistency, which doesn't help understanding of a line up for a customer.
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Positives though: Original softs range is stunning. Six6 great colours and shape. The Zona stickers are growing on me, why are they only sometimes used? Sometimes not?
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Most interesting comments, thanks to all.
If I could explain to all about the GM bat range - we have 6 different profiles : Icon, Argon, Zona, Octane, Purist and Six6. That is the same number of profiles as in the last two years. For 2014, we have discontinued Epic and 1885 as their sales do not merit inclusion in the range going forward. Typically each profile gives a different swell position and size. All of that is set out graphically in our Bat Spectrum on the website as Buzz has already said.
Over the last couple of years we have been able to bring to market different face curvatures, "cambers" as has been said above. We felt it sensible to define these faces by the maxiumum drop in millimetres between the highest and lowest points of the face - hence F7 (traditional, 7mm drop), F4.5 (flatter, 4.5 mm drop), F2 (flat, 2mm drop).
The only bat in which we have made the three faces available is Icon. Icon is our most popular, most enduring shape of recent times and by making available one bat in F7, F4.5 & F2 we allow a ready comparison of the different faces.
Argon is available in F2 & F7 as last year.
Octane, Purist and Zona are only available in F2.
Six6 is only available in F4.5.
So, in terms of choice :
Icon - 3 face choices
Argon - 2 face choices
Six6, Octane, Purist & Zona - no choice.
Do we make all bats available in all three face choices? No. Why not? Because not all profiles work with different faces.
Kind regards
Edward
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I lived opposite a guy who worked for Jaguar as a project manager for many years. The brief when he worked on the X type was to design the car but not loose the 'rear view mirror' test. By this it was meant that the driver in front when looking in the rear view mirror should know instantly that its a Jaguar. This was achieved however the design of the car was different to anything they'd done before.
The GM 2014 range has two different sticker sets on bats, a range of gloves where logos, wristbands are different on each pads which designs are the same as 2013 only tweaked with different colour trim and luggage sets which have only changed colours. A range of keeping pads which look ridiculous.
I'd expect a little more from GM.
I absolutely agree with you.
However you will find in the detailing of the Jaguar range that there is inevitably an evolution. Perhaps the brand adopts a new grille, badging, typestyle, instrumentation, driver instrumentation systems etc and as that is done, so it rolls out across the range over time. Not even Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, BMW etc can have precisely the same detailing across their entire range at the same time.
We have our trade customers around the world to consider. They are not looking for instant redundancy on their stock and typically prefer an evolution of brand guidelines rather than a revolution. It is the same for us internally.
In terms of bat branding, different people have different views. Personally, I prefer the larger GM type branding as on Six6, other folk are more wedded to what they perceive as a more traditional GM look as with say Octane or Purist. The range is evolving at a measured, considered pace.
Kind regards
Edward
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Is there a price point for the Original pads please?
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What's wrong with a bat that only comes in a flat face and another bat that only comes in a round face? This has worked for all the other brands, so I don't see why it couldn't with GM. This is far less confusing and it makes the flatter face option stand out...
I have set out the actual range for you in a post above, or as you can see on the website - 1 bat has 3 options, 1 bat has 2 options, 4 bats have no option. Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Edward
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Is there a price point for the Original pads please?
We don't generally quote retails as we are a business to business organisation - there are various of our customers reading this thread so I will leave it to them to say.
Kind regards
Edward
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I absolutely agree with you.
However you will find in the detailing of the Jaguar range that there is inevitably an evolution. Perhaps the brand adopts a new grille, badging, typestyle, instrumentation, driver instrumentation systems etc and as that is done, so it rolls out across the range over time. Not even Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, BMW etc can have precisely the same detailing across their entire range at the same time.
Ed,
These car manufacturers you mention don't have an annual update to products like yourselves, if what you say is true you wouldn't have made even small changes to part of your range.
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We don't generally quote retails as we are a business to business organisation - there are various of our customers reading this thread so I will leave it to them to say.
Kind regards
Edward
Fair enough.
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In a word: Choice
I like the Icon shape but a more of a touch player - so I want a lighter bat with better feel
I like the Icon shape but am a massive slogger - so I want a heavier bat which can help with my off centre shots
I really don't think it is confusing at all. (Kulli - does that help you too?)
What we really should be asking about is the pressing and what"+ quantum improvements to the vital pressing operation" actually means in practice.
Quite right Buzz in terms of the range, we didn't think it was really that difficult to understand either. Quite a lot of the demand comes from the consumer thinking that they have to have a bat with the biggest possible edges but however you dress it up, that will always come at a weight premium.
We introduced F2 a year ago and it has been immensely successful. Some markets around the world have switched pretty much 100% to it. We have some inherent concerns that come from our long view that flat face bats are necessarily a long term trend as we feel that the more traditional F7 type face has a lot to commend it in terms of the fundamental of getting bat to ball.
Hence F4.5 - potentially the best of both worlds of size and weight. Markets feedback, products evolve. That is what we are doing in a structured, considered approach.
In terms of pressing - you should come and see...
Kind regards
Edward
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Ed,
These car manufacturers you mention don't have an annual update to products like yourselves, if what you say is true you wouldn't have made even small changes to part of your range.
If you are saying that I am not telling the truth, then we can successfully add one more issue to the growing pile of disparity between us.
Car manufacturers often have annual updates, the E Class for 2014 will have detail changes compared to it's predecessor. I don't entirely understand your drift here - we - like all brands - are continually evolving, and that evolution will roll out across all our products in a controlled, considered manner. You can see that on our bats and softs in the 2014 range.
Kind regards
Edward
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If you are saying that I am not telling the truth, then we can successfully add one more issue to the growing pile of disparity between us.
Car manufacturers often have annual updates, the E Class for 2014 will have detail changes compared to it's predecessor. I don't entirely understand your drift here - we - like all brands - are continually evolving, and that evolution will roll out across all our products in a controlled, considered manner. You can see that on our bats and softs in the 2014 range.
Kind regards
Edward
I would suggest you ignore him Ed, he's trolling. Think most people have been converted while Paul has some genuine concerns which is fair enough! Just agree to disagree and move on I would :)
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The website really gives excellent information regarding the upcoming range. I especially like the players edition bats and seeing their choices, including the pick up indexes of their bats.
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If you are saying that I am not telling the truth, then we can successfully add one more issue to the growing pile of disparity between us.
Car manufacturers often have annual updates, the E Class for 2014 will have detail changes compared to it's predecessor. I don't entirely understand your drift here - we - like all brands - are continually evolving, and that evolution will roll out across all our products in a controlled, considered manner. You can see that on our bats and softs in the 2014 range.
Kind regards
Edward
My point was made to another post about how I believe GM doesn't have a clear identity hense the analogy to the Jaguar rear view mirror test.
Lets just say I don't get where GM are going if youre happy that's fine.
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I would suggest you ignore him Ed, he's trolling. Think most people have been converted while Paul has some genuine concerns which is fair enough! Just agree to disagree and move on I would :)
Thanks, no problem. Happy to discuss any aspect of our products or our company. This is a public forum so folk can say whatever is on their mind, and clearly they do. What they should also anticipate however is that I will - like them - respond as I see fit.
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward, can i ask a question about the DXM process?
As it's a cad-based way of shaping the bats, would it be possible in a few years time to have an Epic made even though the model has been discontinued?
Thanks, James
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My point was made to another post about how I believe GM doesn't have a clear identity hense the analogy to the Jaguar rear view mirror test.
Lets just say I don't get where GM are going if youre happy that's fine.
No problem - where we are going in terms of brand execution is to increase visibility. As I said at our sales meetings last week:
"Let's be clear. We make bats"
Whilst we would be delighted to please as many folk as possible, we quite understand that people have their own likes and dislikes. By the way, you didn't come back about our "terrible" video? Which one did you mean, what didn't you like?
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward, can i ask a question about the DXM process?
As it's a cad-based way of shaping the bats, would it be possible in a few years time to have an Epic made even though the model has been discontinued?
Thanks, James
Hi James - yes indeed. We can make any of our existing profiles literally at the touch of a button. Sorry about Epic, but most products have a life cycle - Epic was waning so time to move on.
Kind regards
Edward
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Hi James - yes indeed. We can make any of our existing profiles literally at the touch of a button. Sorry about Epic, but most products have a life cycle - Epic was waning so time to move on.
Kind regards
Edward
Does that mean you can make an original shape Purist still??
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Hi James - yes indeed. We can make any of our existing profiles literally at the touch of a button. Sorry about Epic, but most products have a life cycle - Epic was waning so time to move on.
Kind regards
Edward
Ha ha no worries about the Epic, I totally understand why models get dropped. I love the Icon, but prefer the Epic as i like to drive a lot and the middle's obviously lower.
I've got a Flare that's on it's last legs and sent back for a refurb too so maybe I'll have the pair of them re-made!
The reason I asked is that I didn't know if you had to seriously re-program the whole machine or you could just select a model and boom, it's done.
James
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Does that mean you can make an original shape Purist still??
I bet Colesy is foaming at the mouth in anticipation!
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Does that mean you can make an original shape Purist still??
Yes and, er, no!
Let's have a chat about Purist...
We launched this in 1998 - it was a very successful introduction and heralded a new look, a new livery for GM bats. At the time, we were much criticised by a section of customers for changing the look of GM - "what were we doing messing around with our heritage, confusing branding, don't know what you are doing", that kind of thing. However, time moves on, and we needed to move GM on too.
Purist was a beautiful bat. No bow, no concaving, pretty much parallel edges. It endured until 2007 - during it's life cycle, it went through several changes of livery as it happens. By 2007, times had changed, sales were declining. We introduced Purist 2 in 2008 with what were then deemed necessary bow and contoured edges.
Both Purist and Purist 2 pre-dated the introduction of our DXM processes - so the answer to can we make the original Purist is yes, as our craftsmen and women can make any shape, but no it does not exist as a DXM shape.
Which brings us to the discussion of "retro" in this thread and the apparent dismay about Purist 2014 style.
Please don't let anyone run away with the idea that yesterday will power tomorrow. It simply won't. Life has moved on in all walks of life and if we introduced the original Purist shape in next year's range, it would be loved and lauded by a few and derided by the many. Sales would be minimal. Talk to people who actually sell bats and they will tell you that there is a niche for retro, but the mainstay of their sales come from innovation and contemporary market relevance.
As for labelling bats in a similar style to 1998, well as I have said above, the labels we introduced then were considered very nice by some and loathsome, detestable and brand crucifying by others. 1998 was not a defining moment for GM, it was an important point in time but was one of many in our 128 year history. If I had to pick a more relevant change, it would be the Hero bat of 2005 which for the first time took us away from our house colours of blue and green. The reaction to doing that, over all, was much more positive than the introduction of Purist, and freed us from the constraints of just two colours. In my view other brands have just this issue now.
So, there we go - short question, long answer!
Kind regards
Edward
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Maybe a bat next year based on the golden number phi Edward? ;) :D
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Maybe a bat next year based on the golden number phi Edward? ;) :D
I'm going to have to Google that! :(
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So why the decision not to call it Purist 3 or 3.0?
With DXM being CAD based then surely an exact copy of any bat could be made?
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I can see it on shelves now... The GM Phi... Or the GM 1.618 ;) :D
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To EDWARD,
Well I've got to say I'm overwhelmed by the GM range and love the softs, and the flatter face option however I'm still disappointed about the purist but hey like you say you have the 1885 and halo a go which was basically the same shape, so I think we should forgive you!
Do the original LE pads have padded straps? Just I think this is a huge detail when your paying so much for a pair of pads.
Cheers
Tony
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Yes and, er, no!
Let's have a chat about Purist...
We launched this in 1998 - it was a very successful introduction and heralded a new look, a new livery for GM bats. At the time, we were much criticised by a section of customers for changing the look of GM - "what were we doing messing around with our heritage, confusing branding, don't know what you are doing", that kind of thing. However, time moves on, and we needed to move GM on too.
Purist was a beautiful bat. No bow, no concaving, pretty much parallel edges. It endured until 2007 - during it's life cycle, it went through several changes of livery as it happens. By 2007, times had changed, sales were declining. We introduced Purist 2 in 2008 with what were then deemed necessary bow and contoured edges.
Both Purist and Purist 2 pre-dated the introduction of our DXM processes - so the answer to can we make the original Purist is yes, as our craftsmen and women can make any shape, but no it does not exist as a DXM shape.
Which brings us to the discussion of "retro" in this thread and the apparent dismay about Purist 2014 style.
Please don't let anyone run away with the idea that yesterday will power tomorrow. It simply won't. Life has moved on in all walks of life and if we introduced the original Purist shape in next year's range, it would be loved and lauded by a few and derided by the many. Sales would be minimal. Talk to people who actually sell bats and they will tell you that there is a niche for retro, but the mainstay of their sales come from innovation and contemporary market relevance.
As for labelling bats in a similar style to 1998, well as I have said above, the labels we introduced then were considered very nice by some and loathsome, detestable and brand crucifying by others. 1998 was not a defining moment for GM, it was an important point in time but was one of many in our 128 year history. If I had to pick a more relevant change, it would be the Hero bat of 2005 which for the first time took us away from our house colours of blue and green. The reaction to doing that, over all, was much more positive than the introduction of Purist, and freed us from the constraints of just two colours. In my view other brands have just this issue now.
So, there we go - short question, long answer!
Kind regards
Edward
Hi Edward, about this, have your drying techniques changed allowed for a bigger bat that you used to be able to make in 2007? I was having a think about this, and thought that perhaps you could beef up the edges to around the 30mm mark, still have the non-concaved back and the profile of the Purist, and maybe make it a limited run? Of course, this would probably have to be made in Players grade willow, but if you can get the Trott Icon to be that big without concaving, surely the Purist wouldn't be impossible? I know I'm probably just thinking in a fantasy world of mine, probably because a Purist 303 was my very first bat, but I'm just curious if it could be done. I completely understand the reasoning behind the traditionally shaped Purist not being brought back, even Newbery have apparently changed their Mjolnir profile for this year, (for a thicker edged profile) probably because thick edges sell bats.
I think GM have done a great job, maybe a little too much information, but I'm a bit of a cricket bat geek and I like info like this, and if the majority of your customers buy online, then why not give them as much information as you can? I'm warming to the Zona style stickers too, I think it's just the profile that wasn't quite to my liking.
I do have a question about the weight differences for a bigger edge, is this because you press the flat faced bats a little harder? I would have thought that if you pressed them with the same force for the flatter face ones, which would mean the edges wouldn't be as compressed but the middle would be just as compressed, which means that you still get the bat at the same weight, just with a thicker edge. Perhaps it's the profile shaping that's slightly different on the CNC, but surely you would get around a 5mm thicker edge from the F2 face compared to the F7 face. I'm just guessing here though...
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I can see it on shelves now... The GM Phi... Or the GM 1.618 ;) :D
We may have to take the camber of the pressing into account too!
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With DXM being CAD based then surely an exact copy of any bat could be made?
Has Edward not fully explained this already? You seem keen to keep chipping away at any comments Edward makes.
Any GM bat that has been designed with the DXM system can be reproduced again easily. However a bat that hasn't been produced under DXM ie a Purist couldn't be reproduced without a) scanning and coordinating an original Purist bat, or b) producing on CAD from scratch a model of a Purist bat. Neither is something GM is going to do.
Its like saying that because GM have a DXM CAD system surely they could make an exact replica of the Taj Mahal out of willow. Technically it's possible but its not going to happen because it's not viable to do it.
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So why the decision not to call it Purist 3 or 3.0?
With DXM being CAD based then surely an exact copy of any bat could be made?
We chose to call it Purist, not more much I can add to that.
One of the key points about the DXM process is that the bats produced are extremely consistent. Much more so than any other manufacturer anywhere in the World, and more so than GM in our pre-DXM days. So yes, we can create a digital pattern of anything we choose, but the Purist you may happen to have will be slightly different to the one that somebody else has.
Again, on this retro idea, there is not a single player of ours who is asking for a bat the shape of the original Purist. Rightly or wrongly, the game has changed, players have changed and now take increasing confidence in substantial edges. I am 51 - today as it happens - and if I think back to 1998, I was 36. There are very few things today that I would buy today that would have been the same 15 years ago.
Some folk are in love with the concept of retro. What we are about are the enduring brand values of quality, innovation, relevance and excellence of performance that have typified GM since 1885.
Kind regards
Edward
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To EDWARD,
Well I've got to say I'm overwhelmed by the GM range and love the softs, and the flatter face option however I'm still disappointed about the purist but hey like you say you have the 1885 and halo a go which was basically the same shape, so I think we should forgive you!
Do the original LE pads have padded straps? Just I think this is a huge detail when your paying so much for a pair of pads.
Cheers
Tony
Thanks Toenails!
Yup, comfort straps on OLE D3O, OLE & Original.
Kind regards
Edward
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Thanks Toenails!
Yup, comfort straps on OLE D3O, OLE & Original.
Kind regards
Edward
Thanks for the reply Edward!
Hmmm reckon a pair of original LE pads and Gloves would look nice together :)
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Has Edward not fully explained this already? You seem keen to keep chipping away at any comments Edward makes.
Any GM bat that has been designed with the DXM system can be reproduced again easily. However a bat that hasn't been produced under DXM ie a Purist couldn't be reproduced without a) scanning and coordinating an original Purist bat, or b) producing on CAD from scratch a model of a Purist bat. Neither is something GM is going to do.
Its like saying that because GM have a DXM CAD system surely they could make an exact replica of the Taj Mahal out of willow. Technically it's possible but its not going to happen because it's not viable to do it.
Outstanding answer Jimmy! Much better than mine and for that Sir, an Original bat of your choice is yours with my compliments. Email me at elowy@unicorngroup.com
Remember that me and Mr Fingerz go back a long way, well to last week anyway, and we are not really seeing eye to eye!
Kind regards
Edward
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Thanks for the reply Edward!
Hmmm reckon a pair of original LE pads and Gloves would look nice together :)
Good point. One of the reasons why we do not go overboard on personalising any specific item of gloves or pads with garish colour or whizzington whizzola design is so that folk can shop at GM over the years and be confident that this years gloves look good with last years pads.
Some brands forget that.
Kind regards
Edward
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[quote author=Chad link=topic=26573.msg416790#msg416790 date=1378910440
I do have a question about the weight differences for a bigger edge, is this because you press the flat faced bats a little harder? I would have thought that if you pressed them with the same force for the flatter face ones, which would mean the edges wouldn't be as compressed but the middle would be just as compressed, which means that you still get the bat at the same weight, just with a thicker edge. Perhaps it's the profile shaping that's slightly different on the CNC, but surely you would get around a 5mm thicker edge from the F2 face compared to the F7 face. I'm just guessing here though...
[/quote]
I've been pondering the difference face profiles since GM described the F7 face as a lighter weight bat compared to the F2 face options.I had never considered the weight aspect of flat faces before, just that flatter faces means larger edges which means more power to balls hit off centre, which sounds good.
However what GM allude to is that, as you can see on their bat info pages, the spine heights between the different face options seem the same, obviously the edges are bigger on the flat face bat so the bat will be heavier than the curved face option. The F2 has extra wood in the perimeter of the face, which if you are hitting the ball in the centre of the bat isn't doing anything useful apart from adding mass to the bat. In that case the extra mass would be better being added to the back of the bat in extra spine height or less concaving, if you hit balls in the centre of the bat that is!
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Well Happy Birthday 51st in that case!
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Well Happy Birthday 51st in that case!
Thanks many! :)
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Edward, I have a question regarding the Shane Watson Players Edition Zona. To me his Zona has quite a different profile to the 'normal' Zona. Will the players edition thus also be different to the normal Zona? Since it is to his spec I assume it would be.
Thanks
Sedwyn
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Ed, something you mentioned was that the pros are not crying out for that kind of bats any more. Are all bats currently in production to be sold to the public being designed during discussion with your pros? I'm not trolling at all like someone suggested but I think it's a very reasonable question to ask.
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Outstanding answer Jimmy! Much better than mine and for that Sir, an Original bat of your choice is yours with my compliments. Email me at elowy@unicorngroup.com
Remember that me and Mr Fingerz go back a long way, well to last week anyway, and we are not really seeing eye to eye!
Kind regards
Edward
Thanks Edward,
Very generous, you are going to make my son very happy indeed, I've been looking for a new bat for him today, looks like I can stop looking!
James
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I've been pondering the difference face profiles since GM described the F7 face as a lighter weight bat compared to the F2 face options.I had never considered the weight aspect of flat faces before, just that flatter faces means larger edges which means more power to balls hit off centre, which sounds good.
However what GM allude to is that, as you can see on their bat info pages, the spine heights between the different face options seem the same, obviously the edges are bigger on the flat face bat so the bat will be heavier than the curved face option. The F2 has extra wood in the perimeter of the face, which if you are hitting the ball in the centre of the bat isn't doing anything useful apart from adding mass to the bat. In that case the extra mass would be better being added to the back of the bat in extra spine height or less concaving, if you hit balls in the centre of the bat that is!
Unfortunately not Jimmy, as according to GarrettJ last week, it's all just a fad about big edges.
Alternatively, you clearly understand what we are doing. Our research indicates that the flatter the face of the bat, the more torque is induced when bat hits ball. That manifests itself to the player as a less pleasant, less desirable feel in play. Conversely a larger radiused bat such as F7 imparts more spin to the ball on impact, the energy being dissipated less through torque - this gives a better feel to the player.
The reality is of course that few players consistently hit the ball as often as they would like, so a thicker profile across the section of the bat (ie a flatter face) may give them better results. What we call enhanced shot choice in answer to a question above.
I like your analysis, many thanks
Kind regards
Edward
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Outstanding answer Jimmy! Much better than mine and for that Sir, an Original bat of your choice is yours with my compliments. Email me at elowy@unicorngroup.com
Remember that me and Mr Fingerz go back a long way, well to last week anyway, and we are not really seeing eye to eye!
Kind regards
Edward
Jimmyg - my post was made after it had been said the bat could be recreated by hand however GM's process had changed since.
Ed - personally I thought your reply was the perfect answer
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[quote author=Chad link=topic=26573.msg416790#msg416790 date=1378910440
I do have a question about the weight differences for a bigger edge, is this because you press the flat faced bats a little harder? I would have thought that if you pressed them with the same force for the flatter face ones, which would mean the edges wouldn't be as compressed but the middle would be just as compressed, which means that you still get the bat at the same weight, just with a thicker edge. Perhaps it's the profile shaping that's slightly different on the CNC, but surely you would get around a 5mm thicker edge from the F2 face compared to the F7 face. I'm just guessing here though...
I've been pondering the difference face profiles since GM described the F7 face as a lighter weight bat compared to the F2 face options.I had never considered the weight aspect of flat faces before, just that flatter faces means larger edges which means more power to balls hit off centre, which sounds good.
However what GM allude to is that, as you can see on their bat info pages, the spine heights between the different face options seem the same, obviously the edges are bigger on the flat face bat so the bat will be heavier than the curved face option. The F2 has extra wood in the perimeter of the face, which if you are hitting the ball in the centre of the bat isn't doing anything useful apart from adding mass to the bat. In that case the extra mass would be better being added to the back of the bat in extra spine height or less concaving, if you hit balls in the centre of the bat that is!
Thing is though, the perimeter of an F2 would be less compressed than that of an F7, because of the camber, so it would appear to be bigger, so you would get more volume on the F2 if both were shaped identically on the CNC. This is assuming they are both pressed with the same amount of pressure on the middle. This is just my assumption anyways, and I could be very wrong! I'm assuming there are subtle differences in the F2 shaping compared to the F7.
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Ed, something you mentioned was that the pros are not crying out for that kind of bats any more. Are all bats currently in production to be sold to the public being designed during discussion with your pros? I'm not trolling at all like someone suggested but I think it's a very reasonable question to ask.
We design our bats by injecting our own ideas but also by listening to all feedback from all sources. Pros, trade customers, our staff. Even some forums...
Perfectly reasonable question. Could I have an answer to mine please on videos?
Thanks
Edward
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We design our bats by injecting our own ideas but also by listening to all feedback from all sources. Pros, trade customers, our staff. Even some forums...
Perfectly reasonable question. Could I have an answer to mine please on videos?
Thanks
Edward
Certainly there was a 3 second video posted during your product release day of someone at the front of the room (possibly yourself) I will see if I can find it again and post the link
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New kit looks awesome, and I've always been a lover of GM, and since the DXM process I have become even more of a fan.
Ever since I had my first duelist as a nipper.
Hope the new range goes well for GM, I can't see why it won't. Shapes of the bats are all lovely!
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I really like what GM are doing and have done over recent years. I think they are one of the most innovative companies in the market, things like the D30 gloves&pads, the use of a pick up index instead of dead weight, the bat selector and now things like the shape comparison and spectrum comparison.
Yes it may appeal more to bat nerds like us, but it is great to have such information available online, as this is where I make most of my bat purchases. I don't find the information confusing at all, and I believe it is much simpiler than someone like Gray Nic's who have about 8 bats for sale, some off which aren't discernably different.
For those who are not bat nerds, they will just pick up the bat they feel more comfortable with, and not worry too much about all the "techy guff", and continue to act in the way they have done for years.
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Unfortunately not Jimmy, as according to GarrettJ last week, it's all just a fad about big edges.
Alternatively, you clearly understand what we are doing. Our research indicates that the flatter the face of the bat, the more torque is induced when bat hits ball. That manifests itself to the player as a less pleasant, less desirable feel in play. Conversely a larger radiused bat such as F7 imparts more spin to the ball on impact, the energy being dissipated less through torque - this gives a better feel to the player.
The reality is of course that few players consistently hit the ball as often as they would like, so a thicker profile across the section of the bat (ie a flatter face) may give them better results. What we call enhanced shot choice in answer to a question above.
I like your analysis, many thanks
Kind regards
Edward
So, of your a good player, and time the ball well choose an f7 bat?
If your not so good, or merely havea swing(I.e t20) and aren't always gonna find the sweet spot. An f7 bat is for you.
If your somewhere in between or need one bat for both purposes. A six6 f4.5 it is?
As for people commenting on pressing, the shape of the press will be different, so surely there pressed the same across the with of the bat?
Softs look good, and I like the confidence portrayed in joe root(two players bats!).
I'm not a fan of the zona style stickers, and the bags look the same, just a colour change, and as every gm bag I've ever owned has disentegrated in mess than a season, I'm gutted to see they have not changed more.
Just a small question though ed. Have you ever considered a t20 style bat(shorter blade, or gn nemesis style) or is that something gm aren't interested in?
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Unfortunately not Jimmy, as according to GarrettJ last week, it's all just a fad about big edges.
Alternatively, you clearly understand what we are doing. Our research indicates that the flatter the face of the bat, the more torque is induced when bat hits ball. That manifests itself to the player as a less pleasant, less desirable feel in play. Conversely a larger radiused bat such as F7 imparts more spin to the ball on impact, the energy being dissipated less through torque - this gives a better feel to the player.
The reality is of course that few players consistently hit the ball as often as they would like, so a thicker profile across the section of the bat (ie a flatter face) may give them better results. What we call enhanced shot choice in answer to a question above.
I like your analysis, many thanks
Kind regards
Edward
If you want power across the width of blade with the F2 though, you would have to find some way of stopping the bat from twisting so much due to the torque. I've always thought that handle shape (oval) and less concave normally aids this - have there been any tests to see if there is a way to prevent the bat twisting as much? I like that there isn't much concaving at all on most GM bats, so that basically covers one of those points.
Also, I noticed that the handle shapes on the GMs varied quite a lot across the different models. Is this going to remain for 2014? I really liked the shape of the Zona handle, and hope that the Purist has that shape of handle as well!
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New kit looks awesome, and I've always been a lover of GM, and since the DXM process I have become even more of a fan.
Ever since I had my first duelist as a nipper.
Hope the new range goes well for GM, I can't see why it won't. Shapes of the bats are all lovely!
Totally agree mate. Always loved GM gear. Just can't bloody afford it hahaha Had an apex once and it was a demon bat!!
My new mantra.....
Must get a promotion, need a purist. Must get a promotion, need a purist!!
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I can see it on shelves now... The GM Phi... Or the GM 1.618 ;) :D
In my head it would be referred to as a "gymphy" "gumphy" or "gympy"
Seriously in love with those Original pads! Now to wait a year for end of season sales or scour the boards for someone who bought some but prefers others. :(
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Happy birthday Edward.
For me, and it does hurt a little to say this: I'm glad the Purist is not an original Purist. I had a few Purists and a Purist II, both scored me many runs and I loved all of them. Who here was a little disappointed at the Purist II at first glance with bow and concaving? Point is it's an extension of the Purist era and I would like one, still not a fan of flat faces but I would definitely consider a F4.5.
Now on to that can of worms. I like choice. Choice is good. I don't like flat faces, more so aesthetically than in practice but a compromise between my favoured F7 shape and F2 face is the F4.5. I didn't like the idea before I viewed the website but it seems to get a good halfway point for me. I'd be more than happy to use one, which is the point.
I like the new softs, I liked the old ones but a few colours added to the range reminisces of the range with Hero, Purist, Catalyst, Maxi softs etc which is a good thing. Padded straps on the pads are a good edition, I love my Original pads and that would've been the only thing I would've changed.
The website is incredible, people say too much information but take what you want, leave what you don't. It explains the entire range and why it's like that. No questions left.
Except one:
Edward, do GM still put the anti-scuff sheet under the stickers? I would like to replace a battered scuff sheet and retain the stickers without paying £40+ to send it back to Gunn and Moore.
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Outstanding answer Jimmy! Much better than mine and for that Sir, an Original bat of your choice is yours with my compliments.
Wow :o
happy birthday Edward :)
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Also Ed,
An idea I hope you take on board.
Due to walking to nets/home games I use a duffle bag and personally think there are massive areas for improvement.
Cricket kit all in a bag tends to be quite heavy, i'd suggest a duffle designed similar to a rucksack (which a suggested purchase when I made a thread on this)
Thick padded waist bands would make a huge improvement to any duffle, so we could carry the weight on our hips rather than shoulders. Getting to a game with an aching back can't be improving my performances :(
Secondly, some form of cover incase I'm walking to indoor nets in the rain (a bin bag is my current innovation of choice in this scenario)
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Happy Birthday Ed, Haven't had a chance to look at the Official new range yet other than the pics on this thread but I do have a question about bags (not bats). Would GM ever consider releasing a plastic moulded hardshell trunk (Like suitcase/luggage type material) that is narrow & tall with bat pockets? There are many on here who have been looking for the perfect kit bag but never have found something that just wow's us.
Plastic would mean its lighter, considering luggage survives many a journey this would be capable of lasting more than a few seasons. Would not have the same issues as traditional stand up bags that fall over etc. Size is key where it should fit bats but also be reasonable to fit in cars etc.
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Having just joined the forum, we have spent the day reading through the various posts and trying to catch up. Having attended the launch day we were very impressed with the new bats and the whole thought process behind the 3 offerings - F2, F4.5 and F7.
As Edward has mentioned in his posts the 3 faces do offer something different when played with and this allows a batsmen to then use what he feels bests suits his style of play and preference.
As for the GM factory, it really is a statement! From the manner in which the willow is dried in a controlled environment to the way in which each bat is individually finished (sanded and buffed). We're pleased they are continuing with the Argon and Octane models for the 2014 season as they sold well this year and with the new Six.6 and Purist we think it will be another good year for GM.
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Sorry almost forgot...Happy Birthday Edward!
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Thank you one and all for the comments, good and bad. Will endeavour to answer as many as possible, but am now heading out for family evening out.
Kind regards
Edward
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Sorry almost forgot...Happy Birthday Edward!
Thank you all very much indeed
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Happy Birthday Edward. Really like the original LE and original softs. As for the bats, my fav shape is the Octane. For those who have used it, how is the pickup of the bat?
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Firstly, happy birthday Edward :)
As for the bats, my fav shape is the Octane. For those who have used it, how is the pickup of the bat?
I have a hobbit size octane and the pickup is lovely, but as its about 2lb10 fully dressed with 2 and a half grips it would be haha
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Really don't understand why there is 2 types of stickers...
Makes for a disjointed range of bats
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Really don't understand why there is 2 types of stickers...
Makes for a disjointed range of bats
Which type do people prefer?
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Do you mean in terms of the specification of logo size / number?
Kind regards
Edward
Yes the logo I understand the icc laws but why not sell the exact same pad without the stripes down the side although I have seen the new le original very very nice
Oh where my manors happy birthday
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Which type do people prefer?
Hey Edward, been a big fan of GM for years. Really like the stickers with the embossed GM Logo on the purist, octane, argon etc. Not as much of a fan of the zona/six 6 ones but they are still nice. Think last years and this years versions are the best i've seen for quite some time.
My all time favorites were the circa 93-95 with the red original trim and grip.
Any plans to bring back the cannon, maestro, diamond or autograph anytime in the future.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/87259239_zps27f2db38.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/87259239_zps27f2db38.jpg.html)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/78991042_zps93e57377.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/78991042_zps93e57377.jpg.html)
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oh yea, forgot to say happy birthday! ;)
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Get hadlee up cal with the diamond lad
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Which type do people prefer?
Personally I prefer the ones that are on the Argon, epic, 2013 icon etc. and not the Zona, Six6 and 2014 Icon, like the more traditional look
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Get hadlee up cal with the diamond lad
Can't find a picture of him. Loved the shape of the diamond, my mate borrowed mine and was never seen again! :(
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Just for you Dave!
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/101566104_zps258e8cc4.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/101566104_zps258e8cc4.jpg.html)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/101565999_zps324fe5dd.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/101565999_zps324fe5dd.jpg.html)
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I had a diamond the original with the big red original label was a quality bat also used the maestro but Desmond Haynes was my ideal followed by the crazy Clayton Lambert another gm offincianrdo sorry for going off topic a tad
Oh look at that diamond ohhhh
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([url]http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/78991042_zps93e57377.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/78991042_zps93e57377.jpg.html[/url])
Shot.
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Which type do people prefer?
I haven't met anyone who prefers the Zona style ones, but maybe I'm too old to hang around with the cool kids anymore. I presumed they were mainly designed for a bit more exposure in the subcontinent market where giant Logos seem to be the norm, and I guess make the brand more easily identifiable, but maybe it's the case that in 1-2 season I'll see them as the 'standard' GM sticker and be complaining on here when you scrap them for something else.
For now though it reminds me a bit much of the Newbery Tomohawk stickers, which I also haven't got much time for.
Is it only the flatter faced bats that have the 'F' part of the name running down the spine, I have a teammate who bought a beautiful Icon but I though having ICON F2 on the back didn't look a clean as just Icon as previously but I saw a photo of this years Argon (which I think has both 'extreme' face options) and it just said 'Argon'.
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@Kulli
The F part of the name running down the spine seems to be the norm.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/null_zps5f719cbc.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/null_zpsc3bfa803.jpg)
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the zona stickers standout better on tv...
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Only on the F2's though, this is from the 2014 range
(http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/products/imagery/secondary/psi443.jpg)
F7
(http://www.gm-cricket.com/range/adult_bats/argon-f2.aspx)
F2
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Only on the F2's though, this is from the 2014 range
(http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/products/imagery/secondary/psi443.jpg)
F7
(http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/products/imagery/secondary/psi399.jpg)
F2
the zona stickers standout better on tv...
I had presumed that was the reason, I guess it's a big thing, but is a shame to see more brash in your face stickers for that reason alone. Business is Buniness though I guess.
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The Zona and now the Six6 stickers, do stand out more from a distance. GM tweeted a photo from the Harrogate show this morning, its a long shot from a distance and you can clearly see the Zona type stickers, whereas the other type are indistinguishable at that distance.
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Hey Edward, been a big fan of GM for years. Really like the stickers with the embossed GM Logo on the purist, octane, argon etc. Not as much of a fan of the zona/six 6 ones but they are still nice. Think last years and this years versions are the best i've seen for quite some time.
My all time favorites were the circa 93-95 with the red original trim and grip.
Any plans to bring back the cannon, maestro, diamond or autograph anytime in the future.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers
([url]http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/87259239_zps27f2db38.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/87259239_zps27f2db38.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/calvin1mac/78991042_zps93e57377.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/calvin1mac/media/78991042_zps93e57377.jpg.html[/url])
The GM Maestro has come out in the Aussie range.
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I think the catalogue shows off the new stickers even better than the site:
http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/BOC2014.pdf (http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/BOC2014.pdf)
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The Six6 looks very nice in the brochure. like the shape as well, very thruxton i think.
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What a cracking thread to read. Shows all sides of a route to market. With both the positive and negatives . Think ed deserves credit for answering queries and questions.
My personal opinion is that the retro bat ethos at the minute will surely die down soon so the innovative side of things will be very much to the fore. (After powerspot and bubble it will be difficult to recreate the same buzz for retro statement bats). Think the softs look great, especially the original gloves.
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Agreed, opinions and expert info and insight is what makes this place worth reading, whether you agree with it or otherwise.
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I haven't met anyone who prefers the Zona style ones, but maybe I'm too old to hang around with the cool kids anymore. I presumed they were mainly designed for a bit more exposure in the subcontinent market where giant Logos seem to be the norm, and I guess make the brand more easily identifiable, but maybe it's the case that in 1-2 season I'll see them as the 'standard' GM sticker and be complaining on here when you scrap them for something else.
For now though it reminds me a bit much of the Newbery Tomohawk stickers, which I also haven't got much time for.
Is it only the flatter faced bats that have the 'F' part of the name running down the spine, I have a teammate who bought a beautiful Icon but I though having ICON F2 on the back didn't look a clean as just Icon as previously but I saw a photo of this years Argon (which I think has both 'extreme' face options) and it just said 'Argon'.
Hi Kulli
We introduced Zona in 2012 (a) because we can (b) because it is quite a radical shape & (c) to allow us to test feedback to a different, clearer, bolder branding statement.
Sales of Zona have surprised us (in a good way!). Not going to retire on the proceeds, but it has done better than we anticipated and created a lot of interest. Reaction from retailers and distributors around the World was very positive to the branding, and as one of our missions is to be as clear as possible when reproduced in the media, you can see that with Six6 & Icon we are travelling down that road. We have moved on a little from the precise Zona layout so that both front and back main stickers show GM and the bat name. The "F" number is also shown on the front back and sides. The principal sticker on the side, as we go forwards, is GM DXM as that really summarises the USP's that we endeavour to deliver to cricketers.
Thank you for your comments and contributions, much appreciated
Kind regards
Edward
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I think the catalogue shows off the new stickers even better than the site:
[url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/BOC2014.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/BOC2014.pdf[/url])
Thanks Tom, the cover of The Book of Cricket 2014 is a really cracking picture. I hope that when people see that bats in the flesh and handle them, they will realise that this is a very high quality, designed execution.
Kind regards
Edward
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Ed, don't know if you read before but the Aus site is showing that the Maestro is to return but there are no pics. Will the design match the old Maestro or is it all new?
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Really don't understand why there is 2 types of stickers...
Makes for a disjointed range of bats
Yes, I agree that we are open to this comment. As outlined above, branding is evolving and we have to consider our trade customers around the world and ensuring we don't make their investment obsolete.
The range splits quite neatly : Octane, Argon & Purist in classic GM dress, Six6 Icon & Zona in contemporary. Bear in mind that even if we changed all the bats, when you go into a retail store there will inevitably be a mix of presentations.
I have said elsewhere in this thread that my preference is the clearer, bolder branding, but that's a personal thing. I am not saying that one is better than the other, beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder. I look at what else is brought to market by our competitors, some I like, some I think is a complete mess from firms who are scared to move on.
Kind regards
Edward
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Ed, don't know if you read before but the Aus site is showing that the Maestro is to return but there are no pics. Will the design match the old Maestro or is it all new?
Good question, yes I do know about Maestro. This is what is called an SMU (special make up) for specific accounts in Australia. Very nice too, well I would say that wouldn't I, it is in contemporary branding with a particularly vivid lime green theme.
Kind regards
Edward
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Hi Kulli
We introduced Zona in 2012 (a) because we can (b) because it is quite a radical shape & (c) to allow us to test feedback to a different, clearer, bolder branding statement.
Sales of Zona have surprised us (in a good way!). Not going to retire on the proceeds, but it has done better than we anticipated and created a lot of interest. Reaction from retailers and distributors around the World was very positive to the branding, and as one of our missions is to be as clear as possible when reproduced in the media, you can see that with Six6 & Icon we are travelling down that road. We have moved on a little from the precise Zona layout so that both front and back main stickers show GM and the bat name. The "F" number is also shown on the front back and sides. The principal sticker on the side, as we go forwards, is GM DXM as that really summarises the USP's that we endeavour to deliver to cricketers.
Thank you for your comments and contributions, much appreciated
Kind regards
Edward
Thanks for the info, do you believe that is down to the bat itself, or the branding(obviously both play some part), I guess that will show with multiple bats now available with similar branding.
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We all know stickers sell bats but really the most important thing is how the bat performs and I can honestly say I have never seen a bad looking GM and certainly never seen a bad performing one in my almost 30 years of cricket.
The new branding may not be everyone's cup of tea right now but I bet views will change when people get used to the new designs.
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Hey Edward, been a big fan of GM for years. Really like the stickers with the embossed GM Logo on the purist, octane, argon etc. Not as much of a fan of the zona/six 6 ones but they are still nice. Think last years and this years versions are the best i've seen for quite some time.
My all time favorites were the circa 93-95 with the red original trim and grip.
Any plans to bring back the cannon, maestro, diamond or autograph anytime in the future.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers
Hi Calvin, thanks for your post.
Funny old world isn't it! We had a makeover of branding in 1993 to produce the style you are commenting on. It actually came about because our designer of many years decided to stop designing and sail his boat around the World. Good opportunity for us to engage new eyes, review what we are doing and make sure we were moving along with the times.
In the 1993 catalogue, our range consisted of 6 shapes. Diamond, Autograph, Maestro, Cavalier, Striker and Skipper. People seemed to cope with that range back then without finding it confusing - oh, and bear in mind that those shapes came in a variety of finishes / grades (Original, Superstar & Plus). Makes me think our 2014 range is positively straightforward!
Truth is, I never really got on with that look - we brightened up the house green and blue we used, but I never felt that it properly promoted the quality of the underlying bat as well as it could. I feel we have done a better job since.
Kind regards
Edward
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Good question, yes I do know about Maestro. This is what is called an SMU (special make up) for specific accounts in Australia. Very nice too, well I would say that wouldn't I, it is in contemporary branding with a particularly vivid lime green theme.
Kind regards
Edward
When will pics be released? I had a pair of the 1993 Maestro glove....is it that model?
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Thanks for the info, do you believe that is down to the bat itself, or the branding(obviously both play some part), I guess that will show with multiple bats now available with similar branding.
Bit of both - Zona is an awesome bat when you middle it. It isn't rocket science for everyone to understand that if you concentrate the wood in a specific area, if you hit the ball there it will go a long way. If you are at the top f your game, it's the bat for you.
The branding initially divided opinion, certainly on this Forum. However, around the world and through the year, there was quite a sizeable majority of positive feedback about the bolder look.
Kind regards
Edward
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When will pics be released? I had a pair of the 1993 Maestro glove....is it that model?
As it is an Oz only model, I think you will need to do a bit of Googling. There have been some pictures of it on this forum already I recall.
At the risk of blood pressure exploding over the Forum, the Maestro name is preowned as it were, the products are new.
Kind regards
Edward
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Hi Ed,
Why have different model bats for different countries?
I remember as a kid wanting bats I seen on T.V here is Aus but could never find them in the shops here... Didn't realise they weren't available here.... Not just GM but most major brands are the same.... Who makes the decisions on what gets release where?
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Bit of both - Zona is an awesome bat when you middle it. It isn't rocket science for everyone to understand that if you concentrate the wood in a specific area, if you hit the ball there it will go a long way. If you are at the top f your game, it's the bat for you.
The branding initially divided opinion, certainly on this Forum. However, around the world and through the year, there was quite a sizeable majority of positive feedback about the bolder look.
Kind regards
Edward
Yeah, I guess my issue is over the sticker, innovative shapes are always good to see even when they look a bit odd or not to my tastes.
Interesting that you allude to the newer style of stickers being more popular in other markets, I guess that is the dilemma of being a big brand with sales worldwide. Split your designs and risk criticism, or different products for different markets and risk criticism. It's a tough world :D
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Hi Ed,
Why have different model bats for different countries?
I remember as a kid wanting bats I seen on T.V here is Aus but could never find them in the shops here... Didn't realise they weren't available here.... Not just GM but most major brands are the same.... Who makes the decisions on what gets release where?
Because market needs are different. In China, you need to sell phones that can accept two SIM cards. Not a major requirement here, very important there.
Then, within a market, a specific channel may require something unique. We listen to the "need" and then decide (sales team, marketing team, factory) as to whether it is viable to do.
Good questions!
Kind regards
Edward
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Yeah, I guess my issue is over the sticker, innovative shapes are always good to see even when they look a bit odd or not to my tastes.
Interesting that you allude to the newer style of stickers being more popular in other markets, I guess that is the dilemma of being a big brand with sales worldwide. Split your designs and risk criticism, or different products for different markets and risk criticism. It's a tough world :D
Our responsibility is to take decisions for the best interest of the Company overall. We do try and listen to all feedback, as individuals we tend to enjoy trying new things.
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Hi Edward, about this, have your drying techniques changed allowed for a bigger bat that you used to be able to make in 2007? I was having a think about this, and thought that perhaps you could beef up the edges to around the 30mm mark, still have the non-concaved back and the profile of the Purist, and maybe make it a limited run? Of course, this would probably have to be made in Players grade willow, but if you can get the Trott Icon to be that big without concaving, surely the Purist wouldn't be impossible? I know I'm probably just thinking in a fantasy world of mine, probably because a Purist 303 was my very first bat, but I'm just curious if it could be done. I completely understand the reasoning behind the traditionally shaped Purist not being brought back, even Newbery have apparently changed their Mjolnir profile for this year, (for a thicker edged profile) probably because thick edges sell bats.
I think GM have done a great job, maybe a little too much information, but I'm a bit of a cricket bat geek and I like info like this, and if the majority of your customers buy online, then why not give them as much information as you can? I'm warming to the Zona style stickers too, I think it's just the profile that wasn't quite to my liking.
I do have a question about the weight differences for a bigger edge, is this because you press the flat faced bats a little harder? I would have thought that if you pressed them with the same force for the flatter face ones, which would mean the edges wouldn't be as compressed but the middle would be just as compressed, which means that you still get the bat at the same weight, just with a thicker edge. Perhaps it's the profile shaping that's slightly different on the CNC, but surely you would get around a 5mm thicker edge from the F2 face compared to the F7 face. I'm just guessing here though...
Top questions!
In terms of drying, we only put willow into production when it reaches a specific moisture content. As part of the DXM investment we fundamentally changed how we season and condition the timber, which is much more effective, but the moisture content criteria has not changed. This is an important point - a company can dry out a piece of timber more so that it will be lighter (moisture = weight), and then produce a bat that appears to be big and light. However, it will not be durable and is not something that we will do.
Absolute top end willow is getting increasingly difficult to source - this will affect the whole industry in due course. In a way the bat you are talking about is a slightly bigger 1885 so yes it can be done, we would need to run the numbers to see what sort of weights would be produced.
Thanks for your comments about info on the website - across our businesses, we feel that our customers are after more and more information, so we try to provide it. The bat spectrum shows at a glance details about our entire bat range. The height of the bat on the graph shows where the swell is, the rest of the info shows dimensions etc - we are pleased with how this is developing - it has now been updated for 2014 :
http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx (http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx)
Pressing - there seems to be some confusion on this very important point.
We achieve the different face curvatures by machining, not by pressing. When the clefts are then pressed, we use the same pressures on the different faces. The vital point here is that we will only use the correct roller for the specific face curvature - so we have three different sets of tooling for F7, F4.5 & F2. Sadly, many manufacturers only use one roller profile irrespective of the specific shape they are pressing. This leads to incomplete contact between roller and willow, variable pressure applied across the face of the bat, and inconsistency in use as a natural consequence of less than rigorous manufacturing processes.
We don't do that at GM Nottingham.
Kind regards
Edward
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certainly havent read all 20 pages of this and probably won't, as who has the time?
But as a retailer im still trying to explain the two different faces to customers and some of them still arent getting it....adding an extra face ( and a ton of extra products and options on the website ) etc is a nightmare. for the icon you already had 22 different options and now essentially you can get an icon in 33 different variations is mental...from 101 to Original LE and in F2, F4.5 and F7...craziness.
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Does GM have it's own cricket team?
If so could we arrange (next year) a forum factory visit on followed by a CBF vs GM match?
I'd be happy to try arrange accommodation, pitch etc if it was an option.
Also did you see my post about duffles? Would love to hear feedback if it's feasible to create a proper cricket backpack.
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Accurate measurements or not, we knock in on average two bats per day by hand, so we get quite familiar with the pressing of various different models (especially as we don't just knock in bats sold in store). There's a fair amount of experience to back this up, despite the lack of scientific proof. I will let this matter rest for now though, as it's not really relevant to the thread.
As for us stocking GM, even if the new range blew my socks off and got me foaming at the mouth, I simply refuse to deal with a company who reacts the way they have to the comments in this thread. The words of Mr Lowry in my eyes prove that they aren't really listening to the customer, rather, they are just disagreeing with anything critical, and I cannot support a brand that behaves in this way.
Knocking in - always a sensitive issue. We introduced GM Now as a factory fit option many years ago. The reason we did it was because that is how we treated pro player bats so that the player could go straight out and play. We felt that if it was good enough for them, it should be a facility we make available to our customers. We knock in a lot of bats per day, hundreds of thousands of bats over the years. Immodestly we believe that we do the best possible job of knocking in at the factory. Internally we attribute a declining returns rate over the years partially to the fact that we are knocking our bats in ourselves in our own factory.
We know that some retailers are not a fan of this as an in store knocking in service can be a source of revenue for them.
I am sorry that we may lose you as a customer - it may be too late, I hope not, but what exactly have you taken exception to in my postings? If I have inadvertently offended, I apologise absolutely.
Kind regards
Edward
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certainly havent read all 20 pages of this and probably won't, as who has the time?
But as a retailer im still trying to explain the two different faces to customers and some of them still arent getting it....adding an extra face ( and a ton of extra products and options on the website ) etc is a nightmare. for the icon you already had 22 different options and now essentially you can get an icon in 33 different variations is mental...from 101 to Original LE and in F2, F4.5 and F7...craziness.
I have taken the time as have others as we felt it was worthwhile.
Actually the number of SKU's in the GM 2014 bat range is reduced from 2013, sorry if you find it too confusing. 101/202 grades are Kashmir Willow, not really a hot topic in this thread. How do you get to 33 by the way?
Kind regards
Edward
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Does GM have it's own cricket team?
If so could we arrange (next year) a forum factory visit on followed by a CBF vs GM match?
I'd be happy to try arrange accommodation, pitch etc if it was an option.
Also did you see my post about duffles? Would love to hear feedback if it's feasible to create a proper cricket backpack.
No we don't have our own team, but we do have quite a few talented players on the staff. It would be a pleasure to organise a Forum day at the factory, I can't speak for a match.
Yes, I did see your note about duffles - we do our 505 Duffle, have done for a couple of years.
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward,
Would it be okay to email you via your Unicorn email or alternatively empty your inbox as it's full?
Regards
Beach
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i understand it fine, its the customers who struggle with it..
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i understand it fine, its the customers who struggle with it..
So how did you get to 33 Icon options?
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward,
Would it be okay to email you via your Unicorn email or alternatively empty your inbox as it's full?
Regards
Beach
Of course, feel free to email elowy@unicorngroup.com - I just don't do PM's.
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Happy birthday Edward.
For me, and it does hurt a little to say this: I'm glad the Purist is not an original Purist. I had a few Purists and a Purist II, both scored me many runs and I loved all of them. Who here was a little disappointed at the Purist II at first glance with bow and concaving? Point is it's an extension of the Purist era and I would like one, still not a fan of flat faces but I would definitely consider a F4.5.
Now on to that can of worms. I like choice. Choice is good. I don't like flat faces, more so aesthetically than in practice but a compromise between my favoured F7 shape and F2 face is the F4.5. I didn't like the idea before I viewed the website but it seems to get a good halfway point for me. I'd be more than happy to use one, which is the point.
I like the new softs, I liked the old ones but a few colours added to the range reminisces of the range with Hero, Purist, Catalyst, Maxi softs etc which is a good thing. Padded straps on the pads are a good edition, I love my Original pads and that would've been the only thing I would've changed.
The website is incredible, people say too much information but take what you want, leave what you don't. It explains the entire range and why it's like that. No questions left.
Except one:
Edward, do GM still put the anti-scuff sheet under the stickers? I would like to replace a battered scuff sheet and retain the stickers without paying £40+ to send it back to Gunn and Moore.
Hi Colesy, thanks for your comments, glad you like what we're doing. In answer to your question, the GM Now cover is underneath the stickers
Kind regards
Edward
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Sorry if this has been covered, I've tried to read through everything but may have missed it.
Not necessarily aimed at Ed, anyone can help me with this hopefully.
How does the F7 (largest curve) provide the best power to weight ratio compared to the other profiles? (as per the catalogue)
Thanks Edward, I'll send you a quick email.
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Sorry if this has been covered, I've tried to read through everything but may have missed it.
Not necessarily aimed at Ed, anyone can help me with this hopefully.
How does the F7 (largest curve) provide the best power to weight ratio compared to the other profiles? (as per the catalogue)
Thanks Edward, I'll send you a quick email.
Because it's lighter than the equivalent F4.5 or F2
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Okay, food for thought.
Thank you.
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Sorry if this has been covered, I've tried to read through everything but may have missed it.
Not necessarily aimed at Ed, anyone can help me with this hopefully.
How does the F7 (largest curve) provide the best power to weight ratio compared to the other profiles? (as per the catalogue)
Thanks Edward, I'll send you a quick email.
For my sins, I may have read this thread a little much - but from what I can tell - the bat will be lighter - because the curvature in the face is initially shaped into the bat and then the bat is pressed, rather than in other houses where the curved face is pressed into the bat.
Effectively there is less wood therefore the bat should be lighter (depending on moisture content etc in the willow)
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I'm trying to understand GM's process.
I agree Buzz. If the wood has been removed to create the curve then the cleft will be lighter than if the wood had been left there for a flatter profile. Where I'm getting confused is that if you're creating 3 bats in the same profile, one with F2, one with F4.5 and one with F7 all in 2lbs 10 ounces then where does the extra willow get left to compensate for the weight lost through the face profile?
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I'm trying to understand GM's process.
I agree Buzz. If the wood has been removed to create the curve then the cleft will be lighter than if the wood had been left there for a flatter profile. Where I'm getting confused is that if you're creating 3 bats in the same profile, one with F2, one with F4.5 and one with F7 all in 2lbs 10 ounces then where does the extra willow get left to compensate for the weight lost through the face profile?
In the famous bat spectrum, we list the volume of Icon in it's three different guises as :
F2 2,290 cm3
F4.5 2,192 cm3
F7 2,141 cm3
The weight spread from these volumes will of course depend on the clefts of willow used, but for any given density of willow, F7 will be lighter
Kind regards
Edward
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Because it's lighter than the equivalent F4.5 or F2
Hi Ed, I had read the earlier post regarding this and just thought maybe I missunderstood but here is a question:
Aren't the clefts similarly shaped for all f2, f4.5 & f7? I understood it to be only the press/camber/curvature on the roller to be different which would mean they are all the same weight just the curved one have edges that are harder pressed than the middle where as flat face is uniform pressing. Or is it that you actually shave the edges off during the shaping process to start the curved face before it is ever pressed for curved face bats and hence being a few oz's lighter.
EDIT: Just noticed Beachy has the same/similar question to mine. So are the edges being shaved before pressing? rather than being curved due to just the press/roller.
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Hi Ed, I had read the earlier post regarding this and just thought maybe I missunderstood but here is a question:
Aren't the clefts similarly shaped for all f2, f4.5 & f7? I understood it to be only the press/camber/curvature on the roller to be different which would mean they are all the same weight just the curved one have edges that are harder pressed than the middle where as flat face is uniform pressing. Or is it that you actually shave the edges off during the shaping process to start the curved face before it is ever pressed for curved face bats and hence being a few oz's lighter.
EDIT: Just noticed Beachy has the same/similar question to mine. So are the edges being shaved before pressing? rather than being curved due to just the press/roller.
Hi - I have done a more detailed post on this subject earlier. (EDIT Post #312 above) The shapes are not obtained by pressing, they are machined. Pressing to achieve different faces would be dreadful for the durability and consistent performance of the bat
Kind regards
Edward
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In the famous bat spectrum, we list the volume of Icon in it's three different guises as :
F2 2,290 cm3
F4.5 2,192 cm3
F7 2,141 cm3
The weight spread from these volumes will of course depend on the clefts of willow used, but for any given density of willow, F7 will be lighter
Kind regards
Edward
Hi Ed, maybe I am being thick but isn't volume space occupied by the bat in this instance? if you were to compress a substance volume would be lower vs same substance less compressed with same weight and specs before compression, i know in comression you might lose someweight due to moisture, air etc being squeezed out but is it really worth 3-4oz considering that amount of weight in wood is signficant if taken off. I am intrigiued as this is very interesting...
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Hi - I have done a more detailed post on this subject earlier. The shapes are not obtained by pressing, they are machined. Pressing to achieve different faces would be dreadful for the durability and consistent performance of the bat
Kind regards
Edward
Apologies, i must have missed that. Thanks for answering.
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Apologies, i must have missed that. Thanks for answering.
No prob - post 312 above
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Top questions!
In terms of drying, we only put willow into production when it reaches a specific moisture content. As part of the DXM investment we fundamentally changed how we season and condition the timber, which is much more effective, but the moisture content criteria has not changed. This is an important point - a company can dry out a piece of timber more so that it will be lighter (moisture = weight), and then produce a bat that appears to be big and light. However, it will not be durable and is not something that we will do.
Absolute top end willow is getting increasingly difficult to source - this will affect the whole industry in due course. In a way the bat you are talking about is a slightly bigger 1885 so yes it can be done, we would need to run the numbers to see what sort of weights would be produced.
Thanks for your comments about info on the website - across our businesses, we feel that our customers are after more and more information, so we try to provide it. The bat spectrum shows at a glance details about our entire bat range. The height of the bat on the graph shows where the swell is, the rest of the info shows dimensions etc - we are pleased with how this is developing - it has now been updated for 2014 :
[url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.gm-cricket.com/pages/bat-spectrum.aspx[/url])
Pressing - there seems to be some confusion on this very important point.
We achieve the different face curvatures by machining, not by pressing. When the clefts are then pressed, we use the same pressures on the different faces. The vital point here is that we will only use the correct roller for the specific face curvature - so we have three different sets of tooling for F7, F4.5 & F2. Sadly, many manufacturers only use one roller profile irrespective of the specific shape they are pressing. This leads to incomplete contact between roller and willow, variable pressure applied across the face of the bat, and inconsistency in use as a natural consequence of less than rigorous manufacturing processes.
We don't do that at GM Nottingham.
Kind regards
Edward
Thanks for the answer Edward, it was the pressing which was bugging me, but the extra weight all makes sense now. I always thought that the pressing was how most manufacturers got the curvature! I think it's definitely a better way to do it, as it means you get a much more even pressing throughout the width of the blade.
I do wish you guys produced an F4.5 Purist though as I'm not a huge fan of very flat faces, but having said that, I've yet to give a flat faced bat a proper go, so might try that in the nets sometime. :)
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At what point are the bats weighed to establish what weight they'll make? Before profiling and pressing or after.
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Edward, why are GM handles so nice? :D
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Thanks for the answer Edward, it was the pressing which was bugging me, but the extra weight all makes sense now. I always thought that the pressing was how most manufacturers got the curvature! I think it's definitely a better way to do it, as it means you get a much more even pressing throughout the width of the blade.
I do wish you guys produced an F4.5 Purist though as I'm not a huge fan of very flat faces, but having said that, I've yet to give a flat faced bat a proper go, so might try that in the nets sometime. :)
Ah but if we produced a Purist F4.5, there would be howls of anguish & derision about too many bats in the range, confusion, bafflement and bewilderment that we have lost the plot.
Give it time - as I said way back in the thread, my gut feel is that there will be a swing back from F2 over time and the pendulum which rested for 125 years or so over F7 may just swing a little closer to F4.5.
Some profiles lend themselves to working with different faces, some don't. Me? I like your thinking!
Kind regards
Edward
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At what point are the bats weighed to establish what weight they'll make? Before profiling and pressing or after.
The clefts are weighed pre manufacture - the part finished bats are weighed during and post production
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward, why are GM handles so nice? :D
Because we only pick them from Happy Handle Trees!
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Thanks Edward, it's all interesting and very helpful.
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Hi Edward,
I'm not sure if you answered this earlier but, why aren't you 'pro pads' available to purchase to the general public?
Thanks.
P.S - Hope you had a good birthday!
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Because we only pick them from Happy Handle Trees!
I'm going to plant one of those in my garden. Sounds like a truly magical thing
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Hi Edward,
I'm not sure if you answered this earlier but, why aren't you 'pro pads' available to purchase to the general public?
Thanks.
P.S - Hope you had a good birthday!
Thanks for birthday wishes. Pads not for sale because, um, we probably didn't think anyone would want buy them! Would they?
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Thanks for birthday wishes. Pads not for sale because, um, we probably didn't think anyone would want buy them! Would they?
Of course we would! If you released pads exactly like your pros that would go down a treat.....
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Ah but if we produced a Purist F4.5, there would be howls of anguish & derision about too many bats in the range, confusion, bafflement and bewilderment that we have lost the plot.
Give it time - as I said way back in the thread, my gut feel is that there will be a swing back from F2 over time and the pendulum which rested for 125 years or so over F7 may just swing a little closer to F4.5.
Some profiles lend themselves to working with different faces, some don't. Me? I like your thinking!
Kind regards
Edward
Hey, I'm all up for more bats in the range, as long as it means the ones I want aren't excluded! ;) Interesting that some types of face work better than others, I would have thought the Six6 was aimed to be a T20 bat, (Going by name) so would have the flat face, although with the Zona in the range, would be pretty pointless having two T20 bats.
Just quickly glancing at the volumes and weight ranges of bats, I noticed that the Argon F2 has a lower volume than the Purist, Zona and Icon F2, but has a larger weight. I'm assuming that you guys are planning to make the handles thicker, or maybe even use heavier handles/wood for the Argon? I hope it's the handle size, as the thin handle put me off the Argon this year. (Loved the shape)
Of course we would! If you released pads exactly like your pros that would go down a treat.....
Hmmm... Not 100% sure about that. I think that two logos is pretty necessary when advertising off the screen! Of course, maybe I'm wrong, but not everyone notices that there is only one logo on the pads, and some folk like both logos. (Kind of a value for money thing!) I've never been fussed about the pads pros wear, as long as they look alright, function well and fit nicely for me, that's what matters. There could be a market there though, and I could be spouting absolute rubbish!
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Thanks for birthday wishes. Pads not for sale because, um, we probably didn't think anyone would want buy them! Would they?
Kookaburra Pro Edition pads and gloves are some of the things our customers request the most. I can oocasionally get it, but it is very hit and miss.
If you had some in your trade price list, i would stock it. Well, i say stock it, i guarantee it wouldn't hang around in store for long.
There is brand identity to consider though. Unless you know what you are looking for, or get close enough to see, pro pads all look very similar due to the ICC regulations.
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Of course we would! If you released pads exactly like your pros that would go down a treat.....
Pro pads would have less advertising- why would they release that?
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Thanks for birthday wishes. Pads not for sale because, um, we probably didn't think anyone would want buy them! Would they?
I certainly would! Do you sell them direct?
Thanks
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They don't sell anything direct I have tried asking a employee he politely said no
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Kookaburra Pro Edition pads and gloves are some of the things our customers request the most. I can oocasionally get it, but it is very hit and miss.
If you had some in your trade price list, i would stock it. Well, i say stock it, i guarantee it wouldn't hang around in store for long.
There is brand identity to consider though. Unless you know what you are looking for, or get close enough to see, pro pads all look very similar due to the ICC regulations.
Interesting, many thanks for the heads up.
Kind regards
Edward
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They don't sell anything direct I have tried asking a employee he politely said no
GM. Consistently stubborn.
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I have enjoyed reading this thread and think its great that someone from a huge company such as GM is prepared to come on here and be as honest as he has
Personally I think the new range looks great, I don't quite get all the new faces and profiles but if GM introduce it I reckon it will aid how players play. Having bought my first GM bats this year an Epic 909 ( which I absolutely love) and an argon 606 which for £100 is an amazing bat I have found a soft spot for GM. Well done
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Edwards, thanks for all the answers. Here's a blunt question for you. Why should an average club cricketer pick GM above, say, GN or Kookaburra as the company to get their money when they need a new bat?
Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 4
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Edwards, thanks for all the answers. Here's a blunt question for you. Why should an average club cricketer pick GM above, say, GN or Kookaburra as the company to get their money when they need a new bat?
Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 4
Because we make the best cricket bats in the World in our own factory in Nottingham, England.
Come and see how we make GM bats, then ask to go and see around Grays or Kookaburra's "factories".
Kind regards
Edward
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this thread makes for a interesting read and i must say as a big fan of GM i do like the different approach to 2014 kit compared to GN although i wouldn't mind seeing a classic back, as for the new faces i kinda understand it but in truth will make alot more sense when i see all 3 faces in the flesh :D noticed at the beginning of the thread allot of talk about the pressing of the bats but in all honesty i like that, yes they take a little more playing in but it seems to me they last longer and as for someone who sadly cant afford to buy a bat every season its a massive plus having my gm catalyst just give up after nearly 6 seasons of abuse all year round (now have a epic 808 and love it) so don't have a problem with that at all
must say its nice to see such a big company on here explaining and answering question big thumbs up :D
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What is the ICC regulation banning the front Logo and why is this?
Also, when you receive your willow, how are you able to tell if a cleft is storm damaged, and what do GM do with a cleft which is deemed unsuitable for making into a bat?
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What is the ICC regulation banning the front Logo and why is this?
Also, when you receive your willow, how are you able to tell if a cleft is storm damaged, and what do GM do with a cleft which is deemed unsuitable for making into a bat?
Hi MD
The ICC stipulate the amount of branding on pieces of cricket equipment. Why? Because they can. This limits the visible logos to one, a brand can position it where they like, and it must not exceed a certain size.
Storm damage, current you can't tell unless it fails in production. That will change. If a cleft can't make a mans bat, we will convert it to a smaller size. If it doesn't make a boys, anyone up for GM F60 Icon toothpicks?!
Kind regards
Edward
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Having seen the bats in the flesh today, i have to say i really like them. The six6 is lovely the purist is also a cracking bat. I asked the rep the reasoning behind the six6 name and he did tell me. I won't say just yet i'd be interested in hearing what people think it could be for :) also those new ripple grips are amazing!!
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Are they going to do top of the range pads in youths this year? as being a short (No Swearing Please) i only fit youths but getting nailed by quick bowlers with not very good pads on is no fun !
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Are they going to do top of the range pads in youths this year? as being a short (No Swearing Please) i only fit youths but getting nailed by quick bowlers with not very good pads on is no fun !
909 d30 is the highest spec pad in a youth for 2014.
They do small mens in all the higher pads.
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small mens are still to big for us like .. looks like ill be going for m n h then
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Having seen the bats in the flesh today, i have to say i really like them. The six6 is lovely the purist is also a cracking bat. I asked the rep the reasoning behind the six6 name and he did tell me. I won't say just yet i'd be interested in hearing what people think it could be for :) also those new ripple grips are amazing!!
That's really good to hear - sounds like you are in the trade?
Kind regards
Edward
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That's really good to hear - sounds like you are in the trade?
Kind regards
Edward
Yep I am. I manage a shop in chichester. Not sure if I'm allowed to mention the name??!! I felt the range was pretty strong. I can understand people's concerns with the different faces. However it's not like you are offering every bat in every option so for me it's fine. My take on it is that I need to make the decision what I think my core customer will want. I'd be happy to talk through all the other options and if a customer wanted something different we could do a special order accordingly. I love my top end bats as much as the next person but I think at the key price points the different face options won't be a concern fir that particular customer they'll just want something that looks good picks up nicely and performs well and in my opinion you tick those boxes. I'd also like to say that it's a pleasure to see our rep he's a top lad!!
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Thanks for this so far Ed, made for interesting reading. Would like more of this from the individual sponsors, perhaps a batmaker with a QnA session?
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Jonny works at Game, set and Match.
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Jonny works at Game, set and Match.
Slightly off topic, but my only trip there ended up about quadrupling what I planned to spend!
It's been a fair while since then, maybe it's time I payed another visit haha
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Jonny works at Game, set and Match.
Thanks Buzz wasn't sure what the form was for mentioning the shops name!Slightly off topic, but my only trip there ended up about quadrupling what I planned to spend!
It's been a fair while since then, maybe it's time I payed another visit haha
Sounds like you're my perfect customer!
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Guessing the six6 is named after Joe Root as he is going to be endorsing the range? Route 66 or shall I say Root 66.
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Yep I am. I manage a shop in chichester. Not sure if I'm allowed to mention the name??!! I felt the range was pretty strong. I can understand people's concerns with the different faces. However it's not like you are offering every bat in every option so for me it's fine. My take on it is that I need to make the decision what I think my core customer will want. I'd be happy to talk through all the other options and if a customer wanted something different we could do a special order accordingly. I love my top end bats as much as the next person but I think at the key price points the different face options won't be a concern fir that particular customer they'll just want something that looks good picks up nicely and performs well and in my opinion you tick those boxes. I'd also like to say that it's a pleasure to see our rep he's a top lad!!
Many thanks Jonny, have passed your kind comments on to Scotty
Kind regards
Edward
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Saw the range today (I love getting stuck in and hands on with all the gear) and I must say I really like almost all of it.
The only part of the range I personally have not been that keen on over the past couple of years are the D3o batting pads. But my tastes don't represent the tastes of everyone (I hate the Puma robocop pads but it seems that they fly off shelves) and I know a couple of team mates at my club have purchased them from us.
I love the Purist, superb shape, I really don't think it matters too much that it doesn't carry retro stickers.
Ripple grips get a big thumbs up.
It was a pleasure to meet you today Edward, along with the rest of the staff at the event.
From a more personal viewpoint, it would be nice to get a look at the shapes of the new Player Edition bats. Robin ordered 2 Graeme Smith Epics for himself after seeing the shape at last years show. I think he would definitely grab himself a Joe Root Octane or Six6 providing he liked the shape.
Jake
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Saw the range today (I love getting stuck in and hands on with all the gear) and I must say I really like almost all of it.
The only part of the range I personally have not been that keen on over the past couple of years are the D3o batting pads. But my tastes don't represent the tastes of everyone (I hate the Puma robocop pads but it seems that they fly off shelves) and I know a couple of team mates at my club have purchased them from us.
I love the Purist, superb shape, I really don't think it matters too much that it doesn't carry retro stickers.
Ripple grips get a big thumbs up.
It was a pleasure to meet you today Edward, along with the rest of the staff at the event.
From a more personal viewpoint, it would be nice to get a look at the shapes of the new Player Edition bats. Robin ordered 2 Graeme Smith Epics for himself after seeing the shape at last years show. I think he would definitely grab himself a Joe Root Octane or Six6 providing he liked the shape.
Jake
Thanks Jake, appreciate you and your colleagues coming along to Windsor to see the full range, it really was a pleasure to meet you all. If you have been pleased with what you have seen, that's a bonus. If we can do better, you have my full contact details we are always pleased to get considered feedback from our trade customers and from cricketers.
Best wishes
Edward
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Hi Edward,
Pardon my ignorance but why did the GM discontinued Epic series? And what is the closest profile you guys have to Epic in your 2014 models?
thanks.
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Finally managed to read through it all and I have to say, I'm impressed with GM in 2014. I'm not a massive fan of the Zona, Icon etc sticker design, I would have prefered the one style of stickers throughout the range. However, you have to praise them for pushing the boundaries of what they can offer the customer. After unsuccessfully trying a flat face this year, I would be interested to test a F4.5 bat to see the difference. As usual, the softs all look top notch. My only dissapointment is scrapping the Epic, my current match bat and favourite bat shape on the market.
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Finally managed to read through it all and I have to say, I'm impressed with GM in 2014. I'm not a massive fan of the Zona, Icon etc sticker design, I would have prefered the one style of stickers throughout the range. However, you have to praise them for pushing the boundaries of what they can offer the customer. After unsuccessfully trying a flat face this year, I would be interested to test a F4.5 bat to see the difference. As usual, the softs all look top notch. My only dissapointment is scrapping the Epic, my current match bat and favourite bat shape on the market.
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Same here.. Epic was perfect for my game.
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Hi Edward,
Pardon my ignorance but why did the GM discontinued Epic series? And what is the closest profile you guys have to Epic in your 2014 models?
thanks.
I can only imagine it was low, or declining sales.
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Hi Edward,
Pardon my ignorance but why did the GM discontinued Epic series? And what is the closest profile you guys have to Epic in your 2014 models?
thanks.
I think Edward did mention in this thread that the Epic had been replaced because of waning sales, however I don't want to wade through the thread to find it.
If you look at the Bat Spectrum info on the GM website the Six6 slots in where the Epic used to be,certainly middle position wise, below the Zona. Obviously the edges look more contoured on the six6 and the spine doesn't seem as thick all the way to the handle as on the Epic.
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I think Edward did mention in this thread that the Epic had been replaced because of waning sales, however I don't want to wade through the thread to find it.
If you look at the Bat Spectrum info on the GM website the Six6 slots in where the Epic used to be,certainly middle position wise, below the Zona. Obviously the edges look more contoured on the six6 and the spine doesn't seem as thick all the way to the handle as on the Epic.
Hi Wrahil
Yes jimmyG is spot on with his answers.
Kind regards
Edward
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just in case anyone is still not sure why GM changed the stickers, this picture speaks a thousand words...
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/utf-8BMTU3OTIzLmpwZw_zps4c963afd.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/utf-8BMTU3OTIzLmpwZw_zps4c963afd.jpg.html)
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just in case anyone is still not sure why GM changed the stickers, this picture speaks a thousand words...
Thanks Buzz. Great shot - with the willow and the shutter!
Kind regards
Edward
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I'd love to see one of the six6 bats in the flesh and wave it around to get a feel for the bat. They look pretty special, but I have a soft spot for GM.
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I have tried the new grip, amazing, and I don't think its one to harm gloves!
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Saw Read was using the Six6 in his innings today. I have to admit, I've not been a fan of the new style GM stickers, but having seen how much they stuck out during Read's innings I completely understand the decision - the G and M really do pop out.
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I might be one of very few on the forum, but I think the new direction in sticker design GM have taken is fantastic, bold, simple and clear-cut branding. Personally I believe that as long as Edward and the other fine people at Gunn and Moore continue their tradition of creating reliably performing and durable bats, they'd have to stick something pretty offensive on them to stop me from considering them being up there as one of the best... Even then I'd probably peel 'em off and continue to crash balls to the fence! :D
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Are they going to do top of the range pads in youths this year? as being a short (No Swearing Please) i only fit youths but getting nailed by quick bowlers with not very good pads on is no fun !
The difference between youth and small mens on GM pads is 0.5cm
Small Mens 42.5 cm
Youths 42.0 cm
Measurements are from the middle of kneeroll to the top of the instep.
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The difference between youth and small mens on GM pads is 0.5cm
Small Mens 42.5 cm
Youths 42.0 cm
Measurements are from the middle of kneeroll to the top of the instep.
Folk may be interested in the new 808 pad, new compact construction.
Kind regards
Edward
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I've just seen that there are 10 different pads in the range. Clearly, it's not just the bat faces that are confusing with GM!
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just in case anyone is still not sure why GM changed the stickers, this picture speaks a thousand words...
([url]http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/utf-8BMTU3OTIzLmpwZw_zps4c963afd.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/utf-8BMTU3OTIzLmpwZw_zps4c963afd.jpg.html[/url])
Maybe it's the blue?
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I've just seen that there are 10 different pads in the range. Clearly, it's not just the bat faces that are confusing with GM!
Isn't it normally about that many anyway?
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Far too many for us! Newbery have 7, Salix have 5, M&H have 3, Hammer have 2. That's much more like it for me!
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I think there is a little difference in the size of the companies.
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Still, 10 price options for pads is crazy in my eyes. Again, going back to what I said earlier in the thread, if I wanted to stock the brand and do it justice, we should take most, if not all, and even finding room to store decent stock of ten pads is a nightmare! And then, where would all the other pads go??
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I understand, but not many retailers will stock all 10 pads in all the size/dexterity combinations. They'll pick and choose, assuming they wish to stock GM
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Isn't it a shame that they have to pick and choose though? Whereas with the other brands I mentioned, they could actually stock the whole range? Wouldn't it be better to have the complete range more widespread, rather than just a few dotted around all over the place?
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Would like to know what percentage of GM's soft sales are now online? (and therefore made without trying on in a specialist retailer)
Wonder if a shift towards online sales culture effects these decisions in anyway as I see Pauls point. To stock Youths, Small Mens, Mens and OSM in both LH/RH would be a logistical nightmare.
Dont think this is unique to GM though
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In having 10 different models GM are ensuring they are a brand for everyone.
You have a cricketer that can spend £30 and another that can afford £125 - both can wear the GM name with pride! Also lets not forget that each pad tells a different story...has a different look, offers different levels of protection and styling.
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Isn't it a shame that they have to pick and choose though? Whereas with the other brands I mentioned, they could actually stock the whole range? Wouldn't it be better to have the complete range more widespread, rather than just a few dotted around all over the place?
What would be your ideal number of models and sizes?
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I actually think you can cover everyone's budgets with 5 different price points. Do 3 traditional pads and 2 modern style and you're sorted.
I think in GM's case they really could get away with fewer pads than the other major brands as they (wisely) don't have families of pads that match the bats - they are generic, so match them all.
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You make a good point, but I think GM wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have a market for them at the different price points
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Kind of proves that they are only looking at the larger retailers, though, doesn't it? I suspect we are not the only small specialist shop who has these views about their pads...
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Not really. We only stock 505 and above in softs (our choice). I once went to the Slaz factory in India many years ago. They produced 300,000 of the plaster covered horrible looking bats a year, as there was a huge demand for those, but I wouldn't dream of stocking one. So you don't have to stock all 10 models, just pick your price points that work for you. Do you stock all 7 Salix models?
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Salix only do five, and we've only been stocking two of them. Using that ratio for GM, I would be looking at four pads, which is still more than I'd like to stock...
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Sorry Paul, I meant to say Newbery ... but yes, the reason you stock only 2 from Salix is because 5 is too many, so Newbery you might stock 3, and GM 4. Agreed, you can't stock everything from everyone ... I'd love to have a superstore the size of a Tesco Extra just with cricket kit from all the brands in the world :)
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I was 16 when I bought my first bat ... in my local sports store I had the choice between a Duncan Fearnley 5 Star polycoated and a Duncan Fearnley 5 Star natural - that's it!
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Still, 10 price options for pads is crazy in my eyes. Again, going back to what I said earlier in the thread, if I wanted to stock the brand and do it justice, we should take most, if not all, and even finding room to store decent stock of ten pads is a nightmare! And then, where would all the other pads go??
i dont think ive ever seen the full range of any brand in a shop, online i have but never in a shop. my local cricket specialist is'nt a small one either. i think for the specialist like yourself your more likely to sell 606 to the original le which is only 7 sets so similar to other brands and i think you would be doing plenty justice to the brand. i would be suprised to hear if alot of people on here would be buying the 202 and 303. just a opinion
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Still, 10 price options for pads is crazy in my eyes. Again, going back to what I said earlier in the thread, if I wanted to stock the brand and do it justice, we should take most, if not all, and even finding room to store decent stock of ten pads is a nightmare! And then, where would all the other pads go??
In our experience a retailer will stock that range of goods that suits their customer base.
Kind regards
Edward
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Would like to know what percentage of GM's soft sales are now online? (and therefore made without trying on in a specialist retailer)
Wonder if a shift towards online sales culture effects these decisions in anyway as I see Pauls point. To stock Youths, Small Mens, Mens and OSM in both LH/RH would be a logistical nightmare.
Dont think this is unique to GM though
I've said earlier in the thread that we do not sell on line, we only sell business to business. It would be for the retailers on the forum to give an estimate, if they wished, of online vs in store.
Kind regards
Edward
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from the shops ive seen i would agree with that
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Kind of proves that they are only looking at the larger retailers, though, doesn't it? I suspect we are not the only small specialist shop who has these views about their pads...
No, it actually shows that we have a broad customer base around the World. We don't cherry pick just the top end of the market.
Kind regards
Edward
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No, it actually shows that we have a broad customer base around the World. We don't cherry pick just the top end of the market.
Kind regards
Edward
...pure coincidence but something that highlights this, is that we had 2 friends that came in today, 1 of whom bought a pair of GM's top of the range Original LE pads and the other a pair of 606's.
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...pure coincidence but something that highlights this, is that we had 2 friends that came in today, 1 of whom bought a pair of GM's top of the range Original LE pads and the other a pair of 606's.
Great news!
Kind regards
Edward
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I've agreed with much of what you've said in this thread Paul, but have to say on the point of pads I do disagree.
I can see why GM need a wide range of pad ranges, they're stocked by the high st likes of John Lewis/Sports Direct, to large specialist chains such as Decathlon through to the smaller specialists (who will be very much top end) and the bigger cricket specialists such as Owzat who will cater for a broad spectrum of customers.
It helps that their pads are non-range specific, and tie in nicely with any bat. Other competitors have 12+ pads. Salix cater to a much different client, with a more niche appeal, hence a lower need for a wide range of products and pricepoints.
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I've agreed with much of what you've said in this thread Paul, but have to say on the point of pads I do disagree.
I can see why GM need a wide range of pad ranges, they're stocked by the high st likes of John Lewis/Sports Direct, to large specialist chains such as Decathlon through to the smaller specialists (who will be very much top end) and the bigger cricket specialists such as Owzat who will cater for a broad spectrum of customers.
It helps that their pads are non-range specific, and tie in nicely with any bat. Other competitors have 12+ pads. Salix cater to a much different client, with a more niche appeal, hence a lower need for a wide range of products and pricepoints.
Couldn't have said it any better!!!
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Have to say we had a 180 cricketers play on Sunday in our indoor league and there was a large increase in the amount of Gm equipment I saw being used. Over 50% of the youth section were wearing GM pads and gloves of which the sausage finger type were the most popular. In general last year these guys were wearing Puma and Kookaburra, interesting to see the trend towards GM as there were a lot more guys wearing Gm gloves and the sausage finger seems the most popular.
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Can anyone provide a link to the 2014 GM catalogue? I'm sure I've seen one but can no longer find it...
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It all on their website
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Have to say we had a 180 cricketers play on Sunday in our indoor league and there was a large increase in the amount of Gm equipment I saw being used. Over 50% of the youth section were wearing GM pads and gloves of which the sausage finger type were the most popular. In general last year these guys were wearing Puma and Kookaburra, interesting to see the trend towards GM as there were a lot more guys wearing Gm gloves and the sausage finger seems the most popular.
That's really good to hear, many thanks for the update
Kind regards
Edward