Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Chad on September 16, 2013, 05:36:47 PM
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Hi guys, since it's the end of season, (For the guys in the Northern Hemisphere anyways!) quite a few of us have most likely experimented with different bats which have different types of pressing. Now my question is, do you think the different face profiles make a difference, if so, vote and comment with a little explanation as to why. (Looks, confidence, feel, etc etc.) If you don't think it does, vote for your preference anyways!
Flat faced:
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/20130916_181328.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/20130916_181328.jpg.html)
In between:
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/20130916_181258.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/20130916_181258.jpg.html)
Rounded face (Traditional):
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/20130916_182926.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/20130916_182926.jpg.html)
Apologies admin if a similar topic has been made, but I felt that with the season over and quite a few folk experimenting on new things, it would be interesting to hear their opinions.
Personally, I prefer a mix, my L&W Reserve has an 'in between' face profiling, which looks good and performs fine for me.
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I fear that I couldn't give a toodles. I think it may be down to not knowing much about bats past the questions, does this one feel alright? and have I made runs with it?
These are the main mitigating factors surrounding the bats I use/own. There's not enough of a batsman or scientist in me that knows whether a flat face is a factor in the answers to the above questions.
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I fear that I couldn't give a toodles. I think it may be down to not knowing much about bats past the questions, does this one feel alright? and have I made runs with it?
These are the main mitigating factors surrounding the bats I use/own. There's not enough of a batsman or scientist in me that knows whether a flat face is a factor in the answers to the above questions.
Fair enough, I will tend to prefer something that has worked best for me too, which is the L&W and happens to have a mixed face profiling. I think most people have a preference down to looks, and I find that flat faced bats just look a little square, but I don't mind them too much.
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I've only used "normal" faces in a match, but my Octane seems to go very well in the nets.
I'm also waiting for a Ricochet with a flat face so will see if I get on with a flat face better or it doesn't make a difference to me at all.
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This something I put lot of thought lately.
Last season was my first ever season and I only used flat faced bats in matches and nets during the season, but I bought a round face Thruxton last week and had a net session with it .
Only Difference I experience was I didn't top edged any of leg glances/ flicks during that session (again it could be just a coincidence rather than the face of the bat) . Really timed some of the leg side flicks /glances that day .Which has been a big problem for me during the whole season.
Apart from that I didn't feel any difference on other shots.
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One thing I've thought , surely a press designed to round edges is going to compress the edges more than the middle , making edges more brittle and more prone to cracking? Someone can probably prove me wrong somehow but it's just something that I can't see how it doesn't happen?
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One thing I've thought , surely a press designed to round edges is going to compress the edges more than the middle , making edges more brittle and more prone to cracking? Someone can probably prove me wrong somehow but it's just something that I can't see how it doesn't happen?
In that case, you shouldn't knock/round your edges! ;) It compresses the fibres of the willow, so they are harder and can withstand the force of a cricket ball. Also the way a ball will make contact with the edge will mean that the ball will glide off the face more, so the edge doesn't absorb as much impact. Whether it makes them more brittle or not is something I'm not sure of, all I know is that batmakers recommend rounding off edges, and they wouldn't tell you to do that unless it helped preserve the edges. One thing which I find does make an edge more brittle is actually heartwood.
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Yes but a wooden hammer doesn't exactly give off a huge amount of pressure compared to a mechanical machine designed to squish something :D.
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Yes but a wooden hammer doesn't exactly give off a huge amount of pressure compared to a mechanical machine designed to squish something :D.
I dare you to put your finger under a wooden mallet if you are using it properly... If you aren't denting the willow when you first hit the bat, you aren't hitting it hard enough, and I guarantee that will squish your finger...
Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk 4
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I dare you to put your finger under a wooden mallet if you are using it properly... If you aren't denting the willow when you first hit the bat, you aren't hitting it hard enough, and I guarantee that will squish your finger...
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Not saying it won't squish your finger , I'm sure most of us have done it with a hammer before :( , just assume you won't get the same amount of pressure from a mallet as you would a press! Putting your finger between a press and a bat though looks a bit more painful to me!
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One thing I've thought , surely a press designed to round edges is going to compress the edges more than the middle , making edges more brittle and more prone to cracking? Someone can probably prove me wrong somehow but it's just something that I can't see how it doesn't happen?
The face is cut in not pressed.
The press is then the shape of the face so it compresses the entire thing evenly across face.
gm has 3 different presses for there 3 different faces, Edward Lowry confirmed it in the "gm2014 launch" thread
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The face is cut in not pressed.
The press is then the shape of the face so it compresses the entire thing evenly across face.
gm has 3 different presses for there 3 different faces, Edward Lowry confirmed it in the "gm2014 launch" thread
Not in all cases, GM do this and this was the first time I had heard of it being done that way. Many other companies press their bats without shaping the faces to suit the camber of press I believe.
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Is that so? It must be very hard to cut the clefts edges to the same shape as the press for the smaller companies that press themselves? I've always assumed the curve was pressed into the edges , but I could be wrong then! Are you sure that isn't just G&M?
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Nick Nixon shapes bats, before pressing
Nixon Cricket - From Willow Tree to Cricket Bat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCY0mu6H6c#)
Machine doesn't look to complicated/expensive for a "small" manufacturer to have.
Edit: skip to 2.40 for those not wanting to watch the entire process
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Yeah , I did think back to that video when you mentioned that but I think Nixon and G&M are the only two I have ever heard mention that? I could be completely wrong but I've never seen/heard of anyone else manually curving the edges on a bat.
If we could get some answers from some forum sponsors who own their own presses it could be interesting ;).
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Salix
Salix cricket bat making video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRc4QoRJDDo#)
Doesn't mention it, but the blade is clearly shapped before entering the press.
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Salix do use a flat face roller now that has some curve on it and it is about 3 tonnes per square inch of pressure put on as it goes through. but the trick is the preperation to get the performance. anyone who knows salix will tell you..... they are pretty good at it ;-)
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I have heard of companies cutting the bow into a bat rather than it occurring naturally from pressing
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to the best of my knowledge ( i dont own a press although im on the look out for one) every manufacturer will shape the face of the bat to mirror the profile of the roller on the press. it may not be exactly right but it will be pretty close. check out the gray nicolls video and you see it going through flat and coming out with a curved face ( pretty early on - 30-40 secs in) CF has 2 rollers but 3 face profiles. i believe the mixed profile is a combination of both the flat and the curved roller. as charlies press is hydraulic then it maybe easier to control the pressure and make it work? maybe he presses round profile first and then flattens the curve with the flat roller. im not totally sure
if you were to take a flat faced bat and try to press it will a curved roller you would end of with rock solid edges and no pressing on the middle. i would guess the edges would split if you tried to press a curve in a flat profile unless the pressures were very low.
bow on the blades are either shaped or pressed in but i cant imagine anyone would press a flat cleft with a curved roller
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Yeah , I did think back to that video when you mentioned that but I think Nixon and G&M are the only two I have ever heard mention that? I could be completely wrong but I've never seen/heard of anyone else manually curving the edges on a bat.
If we could get some answers from some forum sponsors who own their own presses it could be interesting ;).
As a very, very small maker, I also have a machine set up to create a convex on the cleft in order to fit perfectly to the profile of my press :)
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I have interchangeable nylon rollers on my press. I have a rounded, inbetween, and perfectly flat. Personally I like the inbetween profile :)
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I've just been to b3. they cutter the profile into the bat before pressing.
they also cut the bow in, and confirmed gm do too.
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Yeah , you'd assume with their CNC work that they would! I'd of thought most other people press the bow in. I was wrong with the other thing though :D.
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The black widow video that was floating around previously shows them shaping the bow rather than pressing it in.
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I've just been to b3. they cutter the profile into the bat before pressing.
they also cut the bow in, and confirmed gm do too.
I'm not sure that they cut in the bow as this weakens the face, they do however cut in the profile
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I'm not sure that they cut in the bow as this weakens the face, they do however cut in the profile
how does it weaken the face? GM have been doing it for years. its cut before its pressed. is clearly shown in part 2 of the bat making process vids on youtube
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how does it weaken the face? GM have been doing it for years. its cut before its pressed i believe
As it was decribed to me and I dont mean to sound patronising...
Image the bat being like millions of fibre's running vertically down the bat, if you cut into that to create a bow you will cut through the fibre thus weakening the face. The fibres can be teased into a bow shape during pressing but not too much.
To get the massive bow in an Indian bat these are cut in.
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I'm not sure that they cut in the bow as this weakens the face, they do however cut in the profile
When I wrote my reply I was stood in b3, being told they cut the bow in by streaky, the guy that designed and made gm bats for many years before moving to b3.
He also said when I was having my latest bat made, if I wanted exaggerated bow, I would lose edge size and spine height as its cut in. Not pressed.
I have no reason to think he's me telling porkies,
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I've got to know Streaky quite well over the past 12 months or so. I've just dropped him a line to confirm and he replied...
'We were talking about face profile – so we cut the face to the same dimension as the press roller. Bow is completely different – all pressed in!'
It was Streaky who was telling me about the weakening of the blade by cutting the bow in.
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I've recently been using a flat face (but I don't know exactly how flat) with minimal bow and seem to be timing my shots better. Of course, this could be due to better balance of the blade, better pressing, the weight of the bat suiting me more etc. etc.
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I've got to know Streaky quite well over the past 12 months or so. I've just dropped him a line to confirm and he replied...
'We were talking about face profile – so we cut the face to the same dimension as the press roller. Bow is completely different – all pressed in!'
It was Streaky who was telling me about the weakening of the blade by cutting the bow in.
GM video clearly shows the bow is cut in and then pressed. streaky himself showing it off! unless hes changed his mind and B3 now do it differently
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It's seems I was wrong about the bow and b3 cutting it in.
Was stood next to streaky when I asked and then replied. But he now says he thought I was talking about something else.
I better go back to college and re do English, as I seem to have lost the grasp of asking a question. Oh well, Atleast we now know.
Profile cut in, bow is not.
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Hi - for what its worth when I was at Salix earlier in the year Andrew K showed me how they cut the bow in to the bat before pressing - I think he said they were one of the few firms that did it.