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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: The_Bird on September 27, 2013, 06:07:14 PM
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http://www.somersetcountycc.co.uk/2013/09/jos-buttler-to-leave-somerset/ (http://www.somersetcountycc.co.uk/2013/09/jos-buttler-to-leave-somerset/)
Lancashire or Nottinghamshire?
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Lancs let their keeper go recently didn't they. That suggests buttler may have a space to step straight into? Although I could see Read stepping aside for the one day keeping at notts
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I feel sure he'll go to Lancashire.
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Read still far too good a player to stop playing limited overs cricket. In my opinion he's the best keeper in England and is a very good batsman. He can improvise in limited overs and still averages highly in county cricket. He should have played far more for England. So for me Buttler would be better off else where or he'll be in the same situation he is in now at Somerset.
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I feel sure he'll go to Lancashire.
100% Lancs and they've even made space for him + of course back in div 1 next season
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100% Lancs and they've even made space for him + of course back in div 1 next season
'Somerset have confirmed that Jos Buttler is leaving the club and Sky sources understand he will be announced as a Lancashire player next week.'
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Somerset to Lancashire, that's a hefty drive haha!
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Somerset are really peed off about it, to the extent that when bedwetter had a bowl yesterday, Tresco put the gloves on.
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Somerset are really peed off about it, to the extent that when bedwetter had a bowl yesterday, Tresco put the gloves on.
Somerset only have themselves to blame. They've reaped what they've sown here. Good luck to Buttler - a special cricketer.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/24302121 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/24302121)
Confirmed today, superb signing for Lancashire.
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That's a superb signing! Buttler is a game changing player and I rate him as a future international in all formats!
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That's a superb signing! Buttler is a game changing player and I rate him as a future international in all formats!
Agreed - think that is why Somerset have let him go as they will not see much of him going forward...
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Agreed - think that is why Somerset have let him go as they will not see much of him going forward...
Decent theory that. They knew that they couldn't keep both Buttler and Kieswetter happy so they let go of the one who will be away the most on England duties. Although they end up with the weaker(and older) player they will atleast have their 1st choice W/K the whole season by allowing Buttler to go.
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Decent theory that. They knew that they couldn't keep both Buttler and Kieswetter happy so they let go of the one who will be away the most on England duties. Although they end up with the weaker(and older) player they will atleast have their 1st choice W/K the whole season by allowing Buttler to go.
Kieswetter is definitely not the weaker of the 2. Hes 10 times the player jos is. There's a damn good reason why he didnt play more for somerset this season. Just not good enough. Coming off 1 in 5 is not good enough!
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Kieswetter is definitely not the weaker of the 2. Hes 10 times the player jos is.
Totally agree Nick. I think Kieswetter, although not quite as inventive as Jos is far more consistent and a much better keeper imho. PLus he's only 2 years older. Jos will be missing for over half the season at least. Great business by Somerset.
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I think it is a great signing for Lancs and Jos.
For lancs it gives an inventive one day player. we have always been missing that extra bit in the one day format to get us that bloody trophy.
For jos it gives him a chance to get game time in the longer format to hone his skills for both keeping and staying in to bat.
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Totally agree Nick. I think Kieswetter, although not quite as inventive as Jos is far more consistent and a much better keeper imho. PLus he's only 2 years older. Jos will be missing for over half the season at least. Great business by Somerset.
Agreed, Kieswetter has rarely failed this season in the shorter form, giving Somerset a great start along with Trego. Is also a much better FC batsman. I wish Jos well, and would have liked to keep him, but in a trade off between the 2, as a Someret fan, I'm much happier to keep Kieswetter
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Kieswetter is definitely not the weaker of the 2. Hes 10 times the player jos is. There's a damn good reason why he didnt play more for somerset this season. Just not good enough. Coming off 1 in 5 is not good enough!
Buttler is always put in down the order and has to hit from the start virtually every game. That's why he doesn't score as regularly as Bedwetter. If you gave them both the same opportunities then you would see that Buttler is by far the better batsman and also the better keeper. Bedwetter struggles to catch a cold while Buttler took 25 catches for England this summer. Only a die-hard Somerset fan could possibly say that Kieswetter is better...
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I do rate Bedwetter and think he's a decent keeper / batsman! But Buttler does tend to come into bat when there is already pressure on. I am the same, and do think that Buttler is as good, if not better than Bedwetter.
Plus I am 90% sure that Buttler will get better and better as he goes!
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Kieswetter is the better keeper undoubtedly. There's good reason why he's kept all season, Butler hasn't held the club to ransom, and has left amicably, therefore why would Somerset not just pick the best keeper. And I disagree about the pressure.... how can you say that opening the innings is not pressure. I bet if you looked at their stats, Kieswetter scored more runs, at a higher average, and an equal strike rate. Butler's good, but not that good, and as your point says, pretty much wasted at Somerset where the top 5 are so good in One day cricket! Good luck to him, and hopefully he gets the opportunity to bat in the top 5, and meet his undoubted talent, but it was never going to be at Somerset!
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I'm no expert on wicket keeping as I guess is no one else on here but I would take Andy Flowers judgement as being good enough being a very fine wicket keeper batsman himself. He and the England selectors rate Buttler better than anyone else in the country in one day cricket. I take his judgement over anyone at Somerset.
Great signing for Lancs. Sad day for Somerset.
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I'm no expert on wicket keeping as I guess is no one else on here but I would take Andy Flowers judgement as being good enough being a very fine wicket keeper batsman himself. He and the England selectors rate Buttler better than anyone else in the country in one day cricket. I take his judgement over anyone at Somerset.
Great signing for Lancs. Sad day for Somerset.
I don't think the keeping bit is the issue for England Kieron and I'm sure Andy flower rates kieswetters glove work just as highly. It's the fact that Jos can come in at 6 and take the game away that means he gets the nod over Craig, who normally bats in the top 3 = competition from pietersen/root/trott/carbery et all.
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perhaps peter moores was an influence having been a gloveman himself
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The main difference to me seems to be Buttler's ability to score singles as well as the big shots.
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its a shame that Somerset couldn't keep as he will undoubtedly become one of the best one day batsmen England has ever had.
from Somerset's point of view they know that kieswetter will be around all season and give them a very reliable keep who will be there for a while and i think will probably end up being captain at some point at lest in one day cricket
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I never rated Cross. I was at the Lancs vs. Leics game when Alex Davies batted and kept well. A great young prospect. With Lancs building their squad, mainly from home grown talent, Mike Watkinson suggested (yes, name dropping) at that game that they were looking at bringing in some talent and wow - what a signing. His keeping and batting will improve by being first choice and playing four day (proper!) cricket.
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I genuinely don't believe that Butler is better than Kieswetter, or Davies, but he does have the same advantage as Bairstow in being a lower order player! Davies and Kieswetter are talents for sure, but the competition for places in the top 3 is huge. THey won't get close, over Trott and Cook, and yes England need some-one inventive down the order to play the finishing role! That isn't either player's game, and Butler fits the mould better. However, in a team that contains Trescothick, Kieswetter, AN Overseas, Trego, and Hidreth, he isn't going to be needed as often, therefore has less of an impact in that team. He needed to go, and I'm happy for him. Would have been good to keep them both but his stock was dwindling, not getting a bat every week, and people were starting to call him out on being a one trick pony, which isn't overly fair..... his knock against Gloucestershire when he was 40 off 50 before accelerating to get 60* off 59 was special.
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Buttler is a guy with incredible potential but as of today someone who has done relatively little beyond some eye catchingly muscular late order innings in the hit and giggle stuff. You can sort of see why Zummerzet were reluctant to give him priority over Bedwetter, who had done pretty well for them in first class cricket over the last four years and who looks the better long form batsman and keeper of the two at this stage - and, given that neither is of anything like a vintage, possibly going forward. As such, this was probably inevitable - and the move to Lancashire with either be the making or breaking of the lad.
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Buttler is a guy with incredible potential but as of today someone who has done relatively little beyond some eye catchingly muscular late order innings in the hit and giggle stuff. You can sort of see why Zummerzet were reluctant to give him priority over Bedwetter, who had done pretty well for them in first class cricket over the last four years and who looks the better long form batsman and keeper of the two at this stage - and, given that neither is of anything like a vintage, possibly going forward. As such, this was probably inevitable - and the move to Lancashire with either be the making or breaking of the lad.
Agree 100% apart from the bit about neither being particularly good or 'vintage'. Kieswetter is in the top 5 of keepers in the country IMBO, alongside Prior, Read, Foster, Davies.
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From what I hear Nosworthy rates Kieswetter very highly, and is looking to build the team around him going forward. If that is the case then letting Buttler go was almost inevitable...
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Agree 100% apart from the bit about neither being particularly good or 'vintage'. Kieswetter is in the top 5 of keepers in the country IMBO, alongside Prior, Read, Foster, Davies.
"vintage" as in wine or whisky - I was referring to their ages!!!! ;)
Though I'll pick you up on that, as I don't think Bedwetter is anywhere near the top five keepers in the country - as well as the four you mention he would also be behind Mark Wallace, Michael Bates and Andy Hodd, at a similar level to guys like Wheater, Jones, Mustard etc.
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Yeah I knew you would, while those guys are undoubtedly better keepers, I should have said keeper batsmen, but then that rather drops Foster, and then my argument loses all credibility! We do seem to be blessed with useful keeper batsmen in this country, although I would quibble that Mustard is up there anymore.
This is what the forum's been missing lately, some decent debate!
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Yeah, keeper/batsmen is a more realistic category nowadays - after all, how many "pure" keepers are there out there in the Shires anymore? Foster is probably still the best (though in fairness he's a decent enough number six or seven in county cricket) and Read a close second (though again a more than competant batsman). In terms of guys who are less talented with teh willow, the example of Bates at Hampshire is indicative of the overall trend - the kid is an exceptional keeper but his batting is more of the number 8/9 ilk and lo, he was sidelined when Adam Wheater - a lesser keeper but much more competant batsman - was brought in from Essex. You see it with Bairstow, Buttler and Davies - and did with Prior - players who were batsmen first and for whom keeping was something they learnt on the job - and will see it again with the likes of Ben Foakes, Ben Brown etc.
Indeed, this appears to be mirrored in club cricket - a generation of guys approaching 50 are leaving the game who were specialist wicketkeepers, often the kind who batted in the tail, and are being replaced by batsmen who happen to wear gloves in the field.
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But then on the flip side, you are also seeing 11 excellent fielders on a team now, and I know its a very specialist role, but if you have the basic ABC's and ability to learn, then it shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to train a good standard keeper! Read and Foster IMO are freaks however, would be interesting to see whether they'd get a look in now that England are looking for a lower order batsman keeper!
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No, they're not - when I first started watching county cricket in the late 80s, most county sides had a keeper of that standard or at least close to it - Colin Metson at Glamorgan, Jack Russell, Jack Richards, Bruce French, Warren Hegg etc.
As for whether Read and Foster might get a look in - big fat no there. I think England like Buttler for what he ofers as a "finisher" and especially with teh way that jibes with the selection of other batsmen available to them, who are predominantly top order players. If that demographic shifted over time, they'd quickly go back to a top order keeper bat...
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No, they're not - when I first started watching county cricket in the late 80s, most county sides had a keeper of that standard or at least close to it - Colin Metson at Glamorgan, Jack Russell, Jack Richards, Bruce French, Warren Hegg etc.
As for whether Read and Foster might get a look in - big fat no there. I think England like Buttler for what he ofers as a "finisher" and especially with teh way that jibes with the selection of other batsmen available to them, who are predominantly top order players. If that demographic shifted over time, they'd quickly go back to a top order keeper bat...
No they're not what?
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But then on the flip side, you are also seeing 11 excellent fielders on a team now, and I know its a very specialist role, but if you have the basic ABC's and ability to learn, then it shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to train a good standard keeper! Read and Foster IMO are freaks however, would be interesting to see whether they'd get a look in now that England are looking for a lower order batsman keeper!
Not sure too many bowlers would agree with you on this one. Nothing worse than seeing a missed chance a quality keeper would have got when there's a decent fielder behind the sticks. Also a quality keeper saves at least 10-20 runs and innings and creates chances by being able to stand up the medium pacers.
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No they're not what?
freaks! :)
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Ah, gotcha! :)
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Not sure too many bowlers would agree with you on this one. Nothing worse than seeing a missed chance a quality keeper would have got when there's a decent fielder behind the sticks. Also a quality keeper saves at least 10-20 runs and innings and creates chances by being able to stand up the medium pacers.
I don't even know what point I'm trying to argue any more lol!