Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Gloves => Topic started by: Rowan on December 09, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
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Hey guys, I know we all have mixed feelings toward's James, both good and bad. Today he sent me this photo of his new gloves. The design is quite stock but the technology he was describing to me sounds amazing. Firstly, Poron XRD, with added reinforced kevlar to the fingers, and with the added bonus of cougar pittard's leather palms made to Jame's specifications. I honestly think that these would be some of the most protective gloves on the market. I also love the simplistic design, so what are you're thoughts on these gloves?. (Admin's, im not trying to advertise I just want to see people's views on this product). Do you think that this design is overused?.
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p686/Rowandonohue/lekka_zps55e18be8.jpg)
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Did he mention a price??
(Knowing James I'm expecting £120 per glove or something) ;)
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Gloves do not look any different to a normal stock pair.
I get the impression that the image above has just been photoshopped to shove their logo on there.
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why go to all that effort with the protection and materials if all you are going to do is stick them in a stock glove. apart from some clever wording which may lead a buyer in a certain direction why would you buy these over the same looking glove from another brand which is probably much cheaper?
im all for introducing new materials but make it stand out a little. its not easy to design gloves and make them look different but its better than a stock glove
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Chatted to Stretton Fox George at the recent IJC event, he had some very convincing arguments as to why Poron XRD is a terrible material for use in a batting glove.
The conversation came about about i was discussing the Slazenger gloves that have Poron in them. He agreed that on paper and even in a lab test it looks like a great idea. But in the real world it really, really isn't.
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Chatted to Stretton Fox George at the recent IJC event, he had some very convincing arguments as to why Poron XRD is a terrible material for use in a batting glove.
The conversation came about about i was discussing the Slazenger gloves that have Poron in them. He agreed that on paper and even in a lab test it looks like a great idea. But in the real world it really, really isn't.
Interesting, are you able to expand on why this is?
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Its an old newbery sps 2 glove isnt it. With a bit of photoshop for company. Anything more than 60 quid and you would struggle to beat any brand or sponsor.
Keen to hear about the poron. Was rammed down my throat at nike that poron in a football boot was the future of shock absorbtion.
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That's a really amateur Photoshop job for the logos and even the 3 breathing holes on the thumb. How anyone can use this image to generate sales for a "new product" is pretty special...
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Interesting, are you able to expand on why this is?
I don't have the knowledge and expertise that George does. But i came away from the conversation convinced that it wasn't a good idea for protective equipment. Shock absorption in the soleplates of shoes etc yes, but protecting delicate fingers? No.
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poron is a good material for trainers as it has no memory therefore when crushes it returns to its normal state thereafter. So when in a shoe which is sustaining repeated impact on the same area its highly suitable.
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(Admin's, im not trying to advertise I just want to see people's views on this product)
We know you aren't ;) and it's a badly photoshopped generic glove imho
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As mentioned above by Vitas and Ayrtek, Poron XRD is a Urethane open cell foam, it's been around since the 60's at least and has often been used for the absorption/deceleration of force.
For human use (its hugely used in telephone keypads, laptops etc..) in sport the ideal situation is slowing down and reducing the risk of injury to a smaller object hitting a larger object. If you google Poron XRD it's widely accepted as a leader for such products as kneepads, protective bike pads, equestrian vests, insoles for comfort but not sport as the return is non existant (as it is designed to absorb).
So it means, if you fall on your knees on a larger mass (eg earth) then you will be protected. But if a smaller item hits you (eg ball) the ball will be protected. It's something to be very careful with as although anything will help to a degree, (fag packets in the pocket or an old beer mat for a thigh pad for example !) one has to understand the principle function of a component thus its ideal use. You ideally want to reflect the energy away from the body and not absorb it towards the body.
PS this is just a general thought and not in any way a dig at products.
Cheers !
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Very well explained Dr Foxy :)
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Anytime someone uses "thus" in an explanation then you know it's true.😊
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Would be interested to know how many on this forum actually have used Poron XRD in any of their personal equipment...i have poron xrd in behind my front pad and have also made a set of fielding guards for when i am under the lid. i swear by the stuff. i find it better aids much more than people think. Very good quality product. photo aside, if James has poron XRD in the gloves then i believe it will change the glove industry
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Would be interested to know how many on this forum actually have used Poron XRD in any of their personal equipment...i have poron xrd in behind my front pad and have also made a set of fielding guards for when i am under the lid. i swear by the stuff. i find it better aids much more than people think. Very good quality product. photo aside, if James has poron XRD in the gloves then i believe it will change the glove industry
surely that goes against everything that Mr Fox has said? Im quite happy knowing there isnt any poron in my gloves. on that basis im going to stick with the man in the know!
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surely that goes against everything that Mr Fox has said? Im quite happy knowing there isnt any poron in my gloves. on that basis im going to stick with the man in the know!
I concur.
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Would be interested to know how many on this forum actually have used Poron XRD in any of their personal equipment...i have poron xrd in behind my front pad and have also made a set of fielding guards for when i am under the lid. i swear by the stuff. i find it better aids much more than people think. Very good quality product. photo aside, if James has poron XRD in the gloves then i believe it will change the glove industry
He does have a good record of industry changing products...
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Would be interested to know how many on this forum actually have used Poron XRD in any of their personal equipment...i have poron xrd in behind my front pad and have also made a set of fielding guards for when i am under the lid. i swear by the stuff. i find it better aids much more than people think. Very good quality product. photo aside, if James has poron XRD in the gloves then i believe it will change the glove industry
Slazenger launched a set of Poron XRD softs for 2014 a few months ago. With respect to James, Slazenger are much bigger than him, yet their Poron softs haven't started a revolution.
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im happy with the poron i have which i didnt acquire through James but you guys seem to know whats best!!
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still looks clear to me thought that none of you have used poron in gloves :)
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does anyone really care what is in their gloves as long as they protect your fingers????
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still looks clear to me thought that none of you have used poron in gloves :)
im happy with the poron i have which i didnt acquire through James but you guys seem to know whats best!!
it looks clear to me that you're here to promote Lekka's gear - why would anyone be that passionate about a bloody glove material unless you're fishing?
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I've never used Poron gloves, but like George said, it does sound good on paper! Maybe it's some sort of marketing thing, I'm have barely any knowledge in these kind of areas, (I should really have some knowledge though, having done a materials science class last year) but I would take George's word over a big brand's. Could just be me being biased, (Plan to get some Fox's pretty soon) but I would trust an expert who has produced a product like SFs over the marketing brochures of others. :)
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time for some Stretton Fox Gloves!!!!
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it looks clear to me that you're here to promote Lekka's gear - why would anyone be that passionate about a bloody glove material unless you're fishing?
I am here to promote good gear my friend. if its lekka, gm or kookaburra i couldnt give a hoot! moral of the story is that 95% of the people on this forum have wool over their eyes when it comes to LEKKA. If you can bother to look through James which most cant, the gear is good.
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I am here to promote good gear my friend. if its lekka, gm or kookaburra i couldnt give a hoot! moral of the story is that 95% of the people on this forum have wool over their eyes when it comes to LEKKA. If you can bother to look through James which most cant, the gear is good.
Are you him? Or his brother? Wife perhaps? The explanation by SF (incidentally a man who makes a living out of finding the best material for impact absorption) clearly trumps yours, which is basically a hunch and a personal opinion. I know which I would believe, and James hass history of some extremely odd ideas based on good thinking, without looking at the bigger picture! Not sure I would say he has a history of industry changing products..... unless I missed the sarcasm lol!
Fearless Fly, its always nice to have new members, but wait a while before you get aggressive and make huge claims until people know a bit about you. You'll find that forum members hunt in packs to find people out!
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George, care to go into a bit more technical detail as to why Poron is not a good material for Gloves? Both Chad and I would be interested.
My take on it is that the way it works is to be impacted by the projectile and then distribute the force into the material on the other side of the Poron. The effect of this in gloves would be similar to the issue we talked about at the oval with the Foxy pads. When it's a finger on the other side there is very little to absorb the (now distributed) force, resulting in it having little useful effect.
But I might be barking up entirely the wrong tree.
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Not sure I would say he has a history of industry changing products..... unless I missed the sarcasm lol!
If that's referring to my comment then yes you missed the generous helping of sarcasm!
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If that's referring to my comment then yes you missed the generous helping of sarcasm!
I thought I might have done lol! Thought I'd cover myself either way
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George, care to go into a bit more technical detail as to why Poron is not a good material for Gloves? Both Chad and I would be interested.
My take on it is that the way it works is to be impacted by the projectile and then distribute the force into the material on the other side of the Poron. The effect of this in gloves would be similar to the issue we talked about at the oval with the Foxy pads. When it's a finger on the other side there is very little to absorb the (now distributed) force, resulting in it having little useful effect.
But I might be barking up entirely the wrong tree.
I'd be interested too. My thoughts, for what they're worth: If Poron (i keep missing out the second "o") does distribute force into the material on the other side of it, couldn't you layer a force-absorbing material underneath it? You could, for example, layer it over traditional glove padding material, which might enable that layer of padding to be thinner than on standard gloves and make the glove lighter overall? Or have I missed the point?
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I'd be interested too. My thoughts, for what they're worth: If Poron (i keep missing out the second "o") does distribute force into the material on the other side of it, couldn't you layer a force-absorbing material underneath it? You could, for example, layer it over traditional glove padding material, which might enable that layer of padding to be thinner than on standard gloves and make the glove lighter overall? Or have I missed the point?
The issue is that your fingers have little to zero padding, so what you need the glove to do is create a crumple zone to remove the energy from the impacting ball.
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The issue is that your fingers have little to zero padding, so what you need the glove to do is create a crumple zone to remove the energy from the impacting ball.
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Yep, I think I remember Foxy talking about this at the Oval.
If you could make a crumple zone / padded area out of material similar to padding currently used in gloves and then layer the poron on top of that (on the side furthest from the finger), would that (theoretically) work? One would think that the crumple zone would not need to be as thick as current padding on gloves, meaning that the Poron/crumple zone gloves would be thinner and lighter.
Not sure I'm making much sense. Been a long day.
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isnt the problem with gloves the fact that the palm of your finger is against the rock solid handle, unprotected, so it effectively gets crushed as their is no give? Putting padding on the palm would result in a loss of feel so its a no go unless mr Lekka has something up his sleeve?
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GarrettJ you've hit the nail on the head (or glove on the finger! sorry it had to be said !!)
Thanks very much for the kind words everyone, it's a very tricky subject hence why both independent and big international companies are still working out possible ways to improve products like gloves.
Basically (if basically is possible !) Foams designed to slow down the impact of something hitting it are great, but the energy dump/weight/force is still there and travelling through to whatever medium is connected on the other side. So fingers being connected in gloves are still therefore receiving huge amounts of impact.
Some foams are however designed to rebound/repel which thus can return energy to where it came (a % of anyway).
Both situations can be assisted by various additional materials designed/implemented to remove the initial shock or pinpoint of impact. Remembering that a cricket ball although quite big, is actually a projectile of about 5-9mm hitting you with the weight of the whole ball x speed behind it, obviously this is why it bloomin hurts !
There is a Fox glove in the pipeline, the science behind is completely different to the current Stretton Fox thigh pads and takes a very different approach to "managing" impact. But i cant say more as the solution isn't protected properly yet.
Anyone purchasing gloves I would just recommend the obvious following... get a mallet and hit your hands and see which one hurts the least. Some peoples receptivity to pain and reaction to impacts are very different so some gloves may seem to work better than others. Just find out for yourselves and see which ones work best, they are designed to do one primary function and yet so few people actually really test an impact before buying, then wonder why it hurts when they get hit. Fit is also really important so get em on and have a go !! :)
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I wonder what they chaps at my local cricket shop would think if I went in and started whacking my own hands with a mallet to test out all their gloves, will have to try it and find out!
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Go for it !
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I reckon all protection must be mallet test approved! Especially after seeing in Foxy show of his own protection... More danger of hitting the spectators than hurting himself!
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GarrettJ you've hit the nail on the head (or glove on the finger! sorry it had to be said !!)
Thanks very much for the kind words everyone, it's a very tricky subject hence why both independent and big international companies are still working out possible ways to improve products like gloves.
Basically (if basically is possible !) Foams designed to slow down the impact of something hitting it are great, but the energy dump/weight/force is still there and travelling through to whatever medium is connected on the other side. So fingers being connected in gloves are still therefore receiving huge amounts of impact.
Some foams are however designed to rebound/repel which thus can return energy to where it came (a % of anyway).
Both situations can be assisted by various additional materials designed/implemented to remove the initial shock or pinpoint of impact. Remembering that a cricket ball although quite big, is actually a projectile of about 5-9mm hitting you with the weight of the whole ball x speed behind it, obviously this is why it bloomin hurts !
There is a Fox glove in the pipeline, the science behind is completely different to the current Stretton Fox thigh pads and takes a very different approach to "managing" impact. But i cant say more as the solution isn't protected properly yet.
Anyone purchasing gloves I would just recommend the obvious following... get a mallet and hit your hands and see which one hurts the least. Some peoples receptivity to pain and reaction to impacts are very different so some gloves may seem to work better than others. Just find out for yourselves and see which ones work best, they are designed to do one primary function and yet so few people actually really test an impact before buying, then wonder why it hurts when they get hit. Fit is also really important so get em on and have a go !! :)
I've been hammered a few times on the top hand by some very fast bowlers so know all about getting my fingers crushed :(
Mr Stretton, here is something for you to work on.
I also keep wicket and i find that the thimbles in the end of the gloves are a serious problem, in fact they cause injury. If you dont catch it right and it hits your finger towards the end the thimble bends back and effectively knackers your finger at the bottom of the thimble/the end joint. My fingers look like they are on the wrong hands due to this jarring/bending from the thimble.
I have thought for some time a sort of overlapping shark tooth design protection would be better. The shark tooths would over lap and go all the way down your finger and stop it bending back at the end joint which is vunerable. As its a shark tooth you would be able to bend your fingers freely.
I must admit this isnt 100% my own idea, i was talking to my brother who is a former pro goalkeeper and he said that some brands of goalkeeping gloves have this on the "pointing" and "up yours" fingers as they are vunerable.
Good idea or totally mental (like me)?
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GarrettJ, I think you and your brother have got a great idea for improving keepers gloves. Could well be a worthwhile project to collaborate with SF. Every one I know that has kept wicket ends up mashing fingers, worst is definitely when the ball hits end on the finger tip. The cup usually bends back carving into the back of the finger.
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GarrettJ thats very interesting to read, genuine feedback is always the best !
Sorry to hear about the fingers pointing the wrong way I bet you have a nightmare telling fielders where to go )
There is a very big plan in the pipeline for a lot of equipment that hopefully I will be able to tell you all about next year, Keepers certainly get the short straw and this is something I intend on spending a lot of time on. You've probably seen the video for the "Leg System" on youtube, we've got it up to sledgehammer level protection and its still very close to the legs for running diving, all the usual requirements !
Your points for existing gloves are absolutely valid, the thought on a design I have is very different and i'm not sure if 100% legal (nothing to do with baseball mits, very different). Maybe we'll have to have a "People's Glove !"
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The armadillo type glove design type is used in goalkeepers gloves in football to help prevent over flexion of the fingers.
Having written a dissertation on the cricket glove design way back in 2004 not much has evolved since bar the intro of materials such as Poron and d3o materials but I haven't seen any quantative data that shows the benefits of introducing these materials over just the stock ones that are used.
Our shark tooth design we use in the elite glove was made I avoid exposures finger joints as this was the most common area of feature due to their exposure when gripping the bat. This is why the majority of pros used to use sausage/kapok stuffed gloves as they don't have joints. Designs have moved forward since I wrote my final year project but I know its on the ICC's list of interests to look into!