Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Willow and Willow Trees.... => Topic started by: patriotscreen on December 11, 2013, 11:49:49 AM
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So it has just occured to me, why do suppliers not sell clefts online at places like eBay, Gumtree etc...
I'm sure there must be a market for it, so is there any particular reason why this doesn't happen?
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I imagine there is no profitability in it, no demand and it would be a logistical nightmare to single out such small orders when you are getting orders of upto 5000 clefts at a time from your normal customers.
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That being said though, there are plenty of small independent batmakers such as myself who cannot order in large quantities.
I should imagine that there is some money to be made, obviously not as high a margin as the larger manufacturers but I don't think it'd run on a loss. Buying clefts from more established companies is fine for now, but I would love the opportunity to get hold of clefts for the same rates that my supplier is getting them for. That would allow me to be able to purchase clefts more regularly which can only be a good thing!
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These suppliers are quite old school, they would have to completely restructure their business to cope with this change. This may be the way of the future, however for now it's probably not worth it for the odd 10 clefts to be sold - when they usually deal with at least pallets of clefts which are sold B2B and not B2C.
I guess it depends on how much you're willing to spend on the clefts and how much of a demand there was - as you would probably have to pay a similar(or probably increased) amount as where you're currently getting them from etc due to VAT and other additional costs(website, staff, handling).
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Could work if someone simply bought some clefts in a bit of bulk looking to make some small profits I'd be very tempted to do it if I has my own bandsaw :)!
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As grade one and better is alledgedly getting rarer, you would only be able to buy the lowest of the low grades through this route.
I think there is the market to sell them through eBay, but you would have to allow for postage and packaging, PayPal and eBay fees. If you think how much it would cost to package up individual clefts and post them, you would probably find it cheaper to go through your local batmaker.
As Sam said, it is more likely that an individual buying in bulk and selling them on would make more sense to do it this way.
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Could work if someone simply bought some clefts in a bit of bulk looking to make some small profits I'd be very tempted to do it if I has my own bandsaw :)!
Of course, however there are so many flaws in it. Most notably the prices would rocket up to become a viable business, remember that the odd company that sell raw clefts make very little on these as it's not their man source of income and therefore as no work has gone in to them, it's a little earner for them. Lets be honest, who would want to purchase a G1 cleft for about £100?
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What are you going to do with a raw cleft?
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What are you going to do with a raw cleft?
I'd have thought if someone was going to do it as a side job for themselves to make a bit of extra cash they would simply buy some bulk(ish) pressed clefts and probably have a bandsaw to do a bit themselves and make it slightly profitable. I assume the more steps you could do yourself the more profitable it would be!
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Wouldn't be talking about making megabucks from doing this, but maybe a larger company which would still be able to do this as a side project, making some profit but more importantly benefitting independent batmakers who are keeping the traditional methods of making bats alive.
The only tools I use are hand tools, don't even own a bandsaw. So I can't buy clefts that are unhandled for now, so being able to buy handled pressed clefts at an affordable price is a must.
I make bats for the enjoyment of seeing something in its raw form turned into a lovely looking bat. I don't make alot of profit, thus making money is not important for me. So long as I can afford to make enough to buy in more stock I am happy. I do not make bats for a living, I have a day job. I suppose in the ever changing modern world these kind of things will eventually phase out though and everything will be machine made. Whether or not that is a good thing I don't know. Major manufacturers definately have the monopoly on small independent firms that's for sure!
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I'd have thought if someone was going to do it as a side job for themselves to make a bit of extra cash they would simply buy some bulk(ish) pressed clefts and probably have a bandsaw to do a bit themselves and make it slightly profitable. I assume the more steps you could do yourself the more profitable it would be!
Well, I guess that H4L, BB and Red Ink have been offering G3 handled pressed clefts at 55-75 quid, there is room to make a small profit there. I was thinking that is how you could sell them on. I forgot you'd need to press the cleft, so unless you have a press, then it's be pointless and those who have a press will have a regular stream of clefts already.
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Well, I guess that H4L, BB and Red Ink have been offering G3 handled pressed clefts at 55-75 quid, there is room to make a small profit there. I was thinking that is how you could sell them on. I forgot you'd need to press the cleft, so unless you have a press, then it's be pointless and those who have a press will have a regular stream of clefts already.
Little bit confused by what you mean? You could buy pressed clefts in bulk and get a little bit less profit.
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Little bit confused by what you mean? You could buy pressed clefts in bulk and get a little bit less profit.
To buy a cleft from the supplier, you would then have to press and handle the cleft, then shave it.
Three sponsors on here have offered pressed and handled clefts. These could be shaped and sold on, making a profit.
If you bought the raw cleft, you would need to have access to a pressing machine, which would not be available to everyone.
Large companies could possibly do this a bit cheaper, although it would probably be negligible amount of savings.
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To buy a cleft from the supplier, you would then have to press and handle the cleft, then shave it.
Three sponsors on here have offered pressed and handled clefts. These could be shaped and sold on, making a profit.
If you bought the raw cleft, you would need to have access to a pressing machine, which would not be available to everyone.
Large companies could possibly do this a bit cheaper, although it would probably be negligible amount of savings.
It is possible to buy pressed (and even handled) clefts in bulk at a still cheaper price :).
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It is possible to buy pressed (and even handled) clefts in bulk at a still cheaper price :).
At a cheaper price than what?
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At a cheaper price than what?
At a cheaper price than we buy them singly I guess.
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It is possible to buy pressed (and even handled) clefts in bulk at a still cheaper price :).
I am sure it might be, but a large supplier is not going to have the time or inclination to sell a few of these on eBay to feed a few wannabe batmakers.
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Than a cheaper price than you would buying them singly I guess.
Yes, and I think if you spoke to some of the sponsors on here, you would find a discount in bulk purchases too.
The smaller companies are more likely to be interested in selling these than the big 6.
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big 6.
Assume you mean the likes of kookaburra,GM,GN etc...?
If so, I didn't quite mean that big :D.
You'd get the cheapest pricing going to the companies that cut the trees themselves you'd have thought.
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Assume you mean the likes of kookaburu,GM,GN etc...?
If so, I didn't quite mean that big :D.
Yes. Them.
I think when Patriot said supplier, I presume he means people like Wrights. These would sell them on eBay, and by the time you pay for packing, eBay and PayPal fees and someone to admin all this, any savings would probably be negligible.
The buyer would also need a press to prep the wood.
If you are wanting clefts pressed,it would be better from a small company who would give you the time of day rather than the multi-national ones. Obviously ask around, and different companies will give different deals.
I think to do this, you would be able to get a small profit, however,it would be a lot of time and effort for a batmaker when he could be making bats instead for a much bigger profit.
In short, it could work for an individual.
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Assume you mean the likes of kookaburra,GM,GN etc...?
If so, I didn't quite mean that big :D.
You'd get the cheapest pricing going to the companies that cut the trees themselves you'd have thought.
You would but it's getting on their books that can be the issue. Most have a minimum order well above anything the small Batmaker will be able to get, they also may not have availability. There are a few supplier who will deal with the little guy. You then need to be able to press and handle. Don't forget unless your doing this yourself your paying for someone's time and someone's knowledge which costs!
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You would but it's getting on their books that can be the issue. Most have a minimum order well above anything the small Batmaker will be able to get, they also may not have availability. There are a few supplier who will deal with the little guy. You then need to be able to press and handle. Don't forget unless your doing this yourself your paying for someone's time and someone's knowledge which costs!
I'm sure you've asked around for bulk pricing at a few places John to find out the approximate prices for your small brand :).
An example I would give is kippax. I won't announce their prices publically as I'm not sure that's what they'd want and I don't want to appear to be advertising for them, but their minimum order quantity is not that high (well, it's quite a few depending on how much you've got into batmaking and how much cash you're willing to put into it) and still gives you a fairly decent discount on what you would expect to pay from most people buying singly (the price list I have from them may be slightly out of date though, not too sure). Probably not big enough to make a large enough profit for a business to run and consider it a big money maker, but enough for someone (who had some decent funds to start with) to buy some clefts and simply sell them on at the price the majority of us currently pay.
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I'm sure you've asked around for bulk pricing at a few places John to find out the approximate prices.
An example I would give is kippax. I won't announce their prices publically as I'm not sure that's what they'd want and I don't want to appear to be advertising for them, but their minimum order quantity is not that high (well, it's quite a few depending on how much you've got into batmaking and how much cash you're willing to put into it) and still gives you a fairly decent discount on what you would expect to pay from most people buying singly (the price list I have from them may be slightly out of date though, not too sure). Probably not big enough to make a large enough profit for a business to run and consider it a big money maker, but enough for someone (who had some decent funds to start with) to buy some clefts and simply sell them on at the price the majority of us currently pay.
£10 a blade, pressed handled and shaped if you buy a tree (up to 3 a year or something). 10 year wait for these, I think.
That'd be as good as you'll get in small quantities.
There is still all the fees and admin and actually how many would buy blind off eBay because as soon as you start,there'll be 100s doing it withG1 willow (or maybe Kashmir).
Bit like all the blank bats on there now.
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I'm sure you've asked around for bulk pricing at a few places John to find out the approximate prices.
An example I would give is kippax. I won't announce their prices publically as I'm not sure that's what they'd want but their minimum order quantity is not that high (well, it's quite a few depending on how much you've got into batmaking and how much cash you're willing to put into it) and still gives you a fairly decent discount on what you would expect to pay from most people buying singly. Probably not big enough to make a large enough profit for a business to run and consider it a big money maker, but enough for someone (who had some decent funds to start with) to buy some clefts and simply sell them on at the price the majority of us currently pay.
I'm aware of all the suppliers costs etc I was just pointing out some of the issues you may have as a smaller bat maker. There are 3-4 avenues for raw clefts in the Uk as well as smaller brands who like myself will supply part mades. Whilst I understand the need to keep costs down etc handling clefts isn't easy or cheap to do. A decent bandsaw will set you back a fair amount as well as time and effort to get both handle and splice cutting jigs right. For someone looking to make a few bats here and there it's better to stick with the part mades and then progress. It's where I started, nothing wrong with it at all.
A smaller bat maker will be able to do this but as said before it's probably not worth it for a willow supplier to do it or the big boys.
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£10 a blade, pressed handled and shaped if you buy a tree (up to 3 a year or something). 10 year wait for these, I think.
That'd be as good as you'll get in small quantities.
That's their tree buying offer, they also sell in slightly larger but still relatively cheaper quantities.
A smaller bat maker will be able to do this but as said before it's probably not worth it for a willow supplier to do it or the big boys.
That's what I've been saying about it only being worth it for the smaller bat makers the whole time though John :D! Are we both arguing the same point here by mistake ????
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That's their tree buying offer, they also sell in slightly larger but still relatively cheaper quantities.
That's what I've been saying about it only being worth it for the smaller bat makers the whole time though John :D! Are we both arguing the same point here by mistake ????
Yeah, I'm not arguing against you, just putting it across from a small makers point of view that's all.
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Having spent time upgrading my set-up to include a bandsaw etc and sorting out all my splicing jigs, I would have to say that it really isn't that cost effective to buy in pressed clefts just to handle and sell them on as part-mades. It would be more cost effective if you had a press and bought the raw clefts in. However, you would have to offset that against learning to use the damn thing and the sheer cost of it (You'd be looking at about 2k to buy a ready made press!) Come to think of it, that isn't cost-effective either!
If you intend on just doing it as a hobby rather than running as a business, sticking to part mades is a lot easier. I'm not saying don't progress and get a bandsaw, but sorting out all the jigs so that eveything is straight and true is a pain in the rear if you are just doing the odd one here and there for mates!