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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: The_Bird on December 25, 2013, 10:47:21 AM
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Kallis to retire after the second test vs India.
A true great and the best all rounder to've ever played the game.
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Still playing limited overs cricket according to cricinfo.
Guys achievements as an all rounder are outstanding. Huge loss to test cricket
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My Christmas just dropped a couple of notches on the happy scale. :( he truly was/is the best all rounder ever. Off to have a little cry
.. Thanks for the memories King Kallis. ..
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Still playing limited overs cricket according to cricinfo.
Guys achievements as an all rounder are outstanding. Huge loss to test cricket
It appears his swan song will be the 2015 World Cup. I think he has earnt the right to go out on the grandest stage.
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Most definitely, hard to compare across eras but he's head and shoulders above any other allrounder in his generation for me
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He bowled a heavy ball and a class act with the bat. Made south africas side balance for years.
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A truly great player and a lovely bloke.
Will be sorely missed.
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Also on a side note, surely shiv chanderpaul will be up there with the greats.
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One of the truest all rounders out there as could get in side for his batting or bowling let alone he could do both
2nd only to sobers as an all rounder
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Hats off to a great all rounder he would have got into any great team whatever team whatever era. We may never see his like again for a long time.
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Definitely one of the greatest all round cricketers of all time and one of my favorites. Perhaps second only to Sobers. SA will have a massive hole to fill after this series. I had hoped he would play both forms till 2015.
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kallis is and has been a quality performer and has earned his place in the pantheon of great players. but he is far from the last of the true greats.
Clarke, Cook, Steyn, Dhoni, Kohli, Sangakarra, Chanderpaul and others will all go down when they retire as greats of the game!
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A very sad day for South African, and world cricket.
Kallis has been the backbone of the Proteas side for nearly 15 years.
It will be strange not seeing JH Kallis on the scorecard anymore.
I thought King Kallis would've played on to break Tendulkar's 51 centuries, but alas time has run out for the great man.
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kallis is and has been a quality performer and has earned his place in the pantheon of great players. but he is far from the last of the true greats.
Clarke, Cook, Steyn, Dhoni, Kohli, Sangakarra, Chanderpaul and others will all go down when they retire as greats of the game!
Kallis, along with Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid, Ponting are the best players of the modern era.
Cook's far from ever being a great player.
As for Dhoni, sloggers aren't great players.
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Kallis, along with Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid, Ponting are the best players of the modern era.
Cook's far from ever being a great player.
As for Dhoni, sloggers aren't great players.
Will Clarke ever be put in the same bracket as Bradman, Ponting, Border, Waugh... I really don't think he will.
I worry that the players of the future will be in the David Warner mould... I truly hope not. I miss Mike Atherton!
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Kallis, along with Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid, Ponting are the best players of the modern era.
Cook's far from ever being a great player.
As for Dhoni, sloggers aren't great players.
Have to agree with Gerry SA. Shining, cook and Clarke aren't a patch on the likes of kalli, Lara and ponting. Shiv and kumar are the last two up there for me. The rest are tainted with t20 slogging so are just not as good
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Cook will break all English batting records and will be an English great however people like Kallis are on another level altogether.
Nobodys mentioned his slip fielding yet and thats pretty special.
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cook, Clarke and de villiars will all become greats of the game. if you can't see that, you need to look again.
Dhoni is astonishing in what he has achieved, in overseeing the transition of a new generation on Indian players winning everything available as a captain. he is far more than a slogger.
I could go on, but I suspect you won't change your view until they have retired.
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Pujara mark my words
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cook, Clarke and de villiars will all become greats of the game. if you can't see that, you need to look again.
Dhoni is astonishing in what he has achieved, in overseeing the transition of a new generation on Indian players winning everything available as a captain. he is far more than a slogger.
I could go on, but I suspect you won't change your view until they have retired.
Amla, Clarke and ABDV will go on to be greats.
Cook, with a middling average in the 40s won't.
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If we consider the limited over formats, i think MS would be an all time great considering what he has achieved both as a player and a captain. His test record is not bad at all, but I think he can definitely do better - he has not had the same impact on the long format as yet (speaking strictly on his achievements so far as a player only).
Pujara certainly has the talent to go very far, also Virat Kohli.
Among the current guys, Clarke, Amla, De villiers, and Cook as well (though alot would depend on how he bounces on from here) could become greats of the game. Chanderpaul and Sanga are greats already in my opinion. What about Graeme Smith - he has a pretty impressive record as well in tests for an opener.
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I suppose the criteria to be considered a great has to include all formats and they have to be judged on a long career.
Kallis, Sangakarra have performed in any situation from T20 in Indian to the toughest test match for over 15 plus years at the top.
Cook, Clarke, Amla, Abdv need to be judged after 15 years or so at the top of their sport.
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Oh ??? I thought he would go on for a couple of more series.
Was hoping he would get to 50 Test centuries.. Alas
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For me he is more suited to test cricket rather than limited overs. I would've thought it makes more sense to retire from limited overs and carry on in tests.
Strange phase for world cricket, who will be next.
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Pujara mark my words
The new Dravid
I think Faf Du Plesis is another who has the temperament to succeed at the highest level.
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was just reading an article about him the cricketer magazine.
he is a player i have liked a huge amount, certainly be a vital part of helping south africa have a balanced side for many years
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Cook, with a middling average in the 40s won't.
100 tests by the age of 29, the first Englishman to score 1000 international runs in his first year, the youngest ever player to 1000,2000,3000,4000 & 5000 test runs, 25 test centuries and could easily pass the record of 51 test centuries held at present due to age and the number of test played per year let alone break all records in English test history. Plus his slip fielding.
Definatly not enough to be a great of the gam >:(
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100 tests by the age of 29, the first Englishman to score 1000 international runs in his first year, the youngest ever player to 1000,2000,3000,4000 & 5000 test runs, 25 test centuries and could easily pass the record of 51 test centuries held at present due to age and the number of test played per year let alone break all records in English test history. Plus his slip fielding.
Definatly not enough to be a great of the gam >:(
England play more Tests per year than any other country.
Cook's playing more Tests in his peak than Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis etc.
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The idea of "greats of the game" is such a funny one, and people's perceptions of individual players is equally funny given how it is affected by so many extraneous factors.
I would have started today thinking Kallis was less than quite a great, but on reflecting recognise that he was and is a great player - until you think about how many runs he has scored, wickets he has taken etc you don't quite pick up the scale of his achievements and may, as I have often done myself, have dismissed him as a fat blocker with one eye on his average.
The concern that I would have here is that we seem to often mistake longevity for greatness.
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The players who I think could become 'greats' are ABdV, Styen, Pujara and Kohli. Players who are v v v good but for me not greets are smith, Clarke, Cook, KP etc etc
At the end of the day it's personal on Player preference , based on nationality and how they go about their cricket. Entering into hall of fame that is 'greatness' will also be subjective. There is no reason slogger thug warmer can't make it for instance, however would the way he plays etc bar him from such accolades etc.. Probably
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Depends on what you want to see
KP changed a few things and although not a classic world great he will be remembered by so many.
A true great is not just stat and figures it may be a way a change
Gilchrist for instance is a true great in my eyes he changed the shape of cricket in a way.
But i guess if your stats based purely then the names are mentioned get so many votes..
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In fact i'm going to say Hayden over Lara..
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Depends on what you want to see
KP changed a few things and although not a classic world great he will be remembered by so many.
A true great is not just stat and figures it may be a way a change
Gilchrist for instance is a true great in my eyes he changed the shape of cricket in a way.
But i guess if your stats based purely then the names are mentioned get so many votes..
I think it's a mix of everything. Stats, mannor of playing, how they go about playing, off field as well as on etc
Stats only tell half the facts after all
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In fact i'm going to say Hayden over Lara..
That's provocative.
Never in a month of Tuesdays.
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It sure is Both changed so many things.
Many will say it easier to play in a good side over playing in a poor side but i do not buy into it.
Hayden was a monster through out his career bar a indifferent start.
Lara was quality too no doubt and at times was pure dismissive at times.
Not many would put them in same bracket i bet..
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What a quality player Kallis is (was). Could be called 'world class' at all three disciplines. The stats don't lie
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Hayden was a flat track bully.
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The new Dravid
I think Faf Du Plesis is another who has the temperament to succeed at the highest level.
strange one is faf as i watched him a lot at lancs and everyone who i watch with agreed that he may be a decent odi player for SA but nothing more. Although he was also one of the best fielders at county level ive seen but after his recent performances at test level i dont disagree with you
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What a load of nonsense this thread is? The last of the great players? What? Why?
Players in the future will be better not worse.
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Hayden was a flat track bully.
Flat track bully did he play on flat tracks all his life then..
He played on the same pitches Ponting and everybody else in world cricket did and had a fair level of success.
What next look at Lara innings vs England the 2 big ones look at our attack.
Swings and round abouts but Hayden could bat in any condition
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What a load of nonsense this thread is? The last of the great players? What? Why?
Players in the future will be better not worse.
There are no true "greats"still playing.
Future ones may reach that pinnacle,but there is no one there currently.
It does not say that there will never be another.
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That's provocative.
Never in a month of Tuesdays.
Hayden vs Lara
Id always pick Lara, but highest ever ICC ranking points?
Hayden 935
Lara 911
Now, I know it is never the be all and end all, but it is a good yard stick.
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Kallis to retire after the second test vs India.
A true great and the best all rounder to've ever played the game.
A very good batsman, but not a great all rounder, certainly not in the class of Ian Botham or Gary Sobers. To me, an all rounder is someone who was worth his place in the team as both a batsman and a bowler. Only 5 5 wicket hauls in 165 tests was not someone worth his place in the team as a bowler. He was a batsman who bowled a bit.
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Nearly 300 wickets...? He was a fourth seamer for 15 years and was without a shadow of doubt a world class all rounder.
Batting average: 55.12
Bowling average: 32.43
To be a better all rounder than Kallis you would've had to average over 60 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. I'm not sure that is even possible in 50 tests let alone 165 tests.
I think you might've had too much sherry.
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Botham averaged 33 with the bat. Would he get in just as a batsman ?
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Big fat no from me Botham was destructive but he would not have a career as a batsman alone.
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A very good batsman, but not a great all rounder, certainly not in the class of Ian Botham or Gary Sobers. To me, an all rounder is someone who was worth his place in the team as both a batsman and a bowler. Only 5 5 wicket hauls in 165 tests was not someone worth his place in the team as a bowler. He was a batsman who bowled a bit.
You have got to be joking ???
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I tend to agree Dave. Was an unbelievable bowler at his peak and very good number 6 or 7 bat.
The thing with Botham is that he could win a game, and did win games, on his own with bat or ball or both.
How many tests did Kallis win with the ball ? A few I would have thought and loads with the bat.
When you look at flintoffs record it shows how average a player he was in the context of these guys.
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A very good batsman, but not a great all rounder, certainly not in the class of Ian Botham or Gary Sobers. To me, an all rounder is someone who was worth his place in the team as both a batsman and a bowler. Only 5 5 wicket hauls in 165 tests was not someone worth his place in the team as a bowler. He was a batsman who bowled a bit.
He's taken 272 wickets in his career and many of them have been in vital, tight spells.
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Guys - this topic is all over ther place at the moment!
Little sub-topics and arguments going on, plus cock measuring about who is better than who. Let's please save the arguments over who is better than who for another topic!
This topic is in celebration for Kallis, who was a qualiy cricketer!!
His International record is very impressive!
TESTS: Batting: 165 matches. 13174 runs. 55.12 Average! High Score 224. Centuries 44
Bowling: 292 wickets. 32.53 Average. 2.82 Econ. Best 6/54
His ODI and T20 stats are equally as impressive!
The guy deserves some respect! There are better bowlers and better batsmen....but I rate him as one of the best all-rounders to grace the game!
With a record like that, he would make any team!
So let's just say well done JK! And thanks for some fabtastic cricket! :D
And my sympathy to SA as I genuinely feel sorry for any team who needs to replace a player like that! They are huge boots to fill!
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Might as well close this topic then
Lol
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A very good batsman, but not a great all rounder, certainly not in the class of Ian Botham or Gary Sobers. To me, an all rounder is someone who was worth his place in the team as both a batsman and a bowler. Only 5 5 wicket hauls in 165 tests was not someone worth his place in the team as a bowler. He was a batsman who bowled a bit.
have to disagree. Kallis' figures stand up with the greatest all rounders of all time, i.e. Sobers. You have to consider, if stating whether all rounders would get in on batting or bowling alone, what they would achieve focussing on one skill, rather than being an elite sportsman in two disciplines. Taking kallis, botham and sobers, i am convinced they would all be test class batsmen and bowlers if required to focus on one skill only.
i cannot believe his ability is questioned based on his stats and longevity in the modern game. Phenomenal player
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A very good batsman, but not a great all rounder, certainly not in the class of Ian Botham or Gary Sobers. To me, an all rounder is someone who was worth his place in the team as both a batsman and a bowler. Only 5 5 wicket hauls in 165 tests was not someone worth his place in the team as a bowler. He was a batsman who bowled a bit.
Kallis got to number 6 on the ranking as a bowler. I think that'd warrant being classed as good enough to be a bowler alone.
PS, he reached number 1 in the batting as well.
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In my opinion Kallis deserves all the plaudits his stats deserve. South Africa have lost a truly magnificent all rounder, he would have graced any team with his prescence.
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Botham averaged 33 with the bat. Would he get in just as a batsman ?
In the 80s mind you
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He's taken 272 wickets in his career and many of them have been in vital, tight spells.
272 wickets in 165 test; less that 2 per test. Hardly world class.
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Absolutely fantastic player. Although he spent most of his years playing as a batsman who bowls I imagine if he was in a weaker team then chances are he would have bowled more than he was required to! His batting warranted a position in the top order so that was his main role. I think any team in the world would love to have a number 3 like Kallis who could more than hold his own as a seamer!
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272 wickets in 165 test; less that 2 per test. Hardly world class.
You're taking his wickets completely out of context though and offering analysis as if he were just a bowler!
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Jacques Kallis bowling has been used in a holding role in basically his entire Test career.
When you have Donald, Pollock, Ntini etc all there's not much chance of getting the big 5 wicket hauls.
In any other side, Kallis was good enough to open the bowling or be 1st change.
Need I remind you, Kallis was 90mph in his younger days.
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Kallis would not only get into, but be a major component in any side that I have witnessed in my lifetime (which is only 25 years mind)
A true great, fingers crossed Ben Stokes turns out to be even half the player JK is/was.
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Kallis' would not only get into, but be a major component in any side that I have witnessed in my lifetime (which is only 25 years mind)
A true great, fingers crossed Ben Stokes turns out to be even half the player JK is/was.
Lets just hope England manage him better than they did with Bopara, Wright and, to a lesser extent, Adil Rashid
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Having been born and raised in SA (although British by nationality) I always have half an eye on the SA team. Although I must confess to knowing little about the fringe, or up and coming players? I wonder how they will replace the great man?
Quinton de Kock in to take over the gloves and everyone else shoves up a batting spot?
An all rounder like Mclaren to come in at 7 to take the bowling burden left by Kallis with everyone else shoving up a batting spot?
Or is there an exciting batting talent ready to be given a go in the top 6 somewhere?
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Having been born and raised in SA (although British by nationality) I always have half an eye on the SA team. Although I must confess to knowing little about the fringe, or up and coming players? I wonder how they will replace the great man?
Quinton de Kock in to take over the gloves and everyone else shoves up a batting spot?
An all rounder like Mclaren to come in at 7 to take the bowling burden left by Kallis with everyone else shoving up a batting spot?
Or is there an exciting batting talent ready to be given a go in the top 6 somewhere?
Quinton de Kock's keeping isn't up to Test standard as of now. Plus ABDV wants to keep.
For the Australia series, Faf du Plessis will move up to 4 permanently.
We've got a few places up for grabs. Alviro Petersen, JP Duminy, Robin Peterson aren't exactly making cases to be retained.
Ryan McLaren does have a central contract, and his improvement has been fantastic over the last 18 months.
I'd like to see McLaren given a run at 7.
Elgar or de Kock replacing Alviro Petersen.
And within 12 months, David Miller in for JP Duminy.
And Marchant de Lange, once he's back to full fitness, back into the Test fold.
Rilee Roussow is the one young batsman who I'm looking to see force his way into the international fold.
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A very poor turn out by the saffers for one of the greats and there greatest
Perhaps they view Kallis like many others
Stunning stats but the selfish issue never goes away
Whatever the case he deserves better than a handful of spectators
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Yeah pity about the turnout, but a great century from a great player, and still going strong -what a way to sign off!!
Maybe he should reconsider that decision to retire, still looks solid as ever.
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Kallis is like a Rolls Royce...all class, reliability and precision.
I love the guy.
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Is Kallis turning up for IPL this season?