Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: brokenbat on January 11, 2014, 11:59:29 PM
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I know this forum has had many conversations on triggers, but I just had a rather simple question.
The only time I even thought of a trigger, was when facing very quick (by my humble standards) bowling, on a quick surface. I found out that back and across DID give me a bit more time, and DID help a little bit. But then, I found out that if I just take my stance further back in the crease, I don't really need to be doing the back and across, because I'm already fairly deep in the crease (with my mindset being to "look for the full ball" and go forward if full, or to stay back for anything short).
Do the experts here think this is wise? I basically said to myself - if one benefit of a back and across move is to give one more time to play the quicks, then why don't I just stand a bit deeper than normal to give me that extra time, without having the need for a trigger (I normally stand quite still and if anything, have a teeny tiny step forward with my front foot - I didn't even know I did this; saw it on video). Like the most of us here, I don't have the time Rob Key had to learn a new trigger move (1000 hours or something), so this seems like the most logical adjustment for me to make.
Would love to hear what you guys think.
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I used to have a trigger movement. ???
I'd take middle and leg and step onto middle/off however I became a LBW candidate and lost my wicket due to moving ball or turn.
I'd advise against it, it can expose your technique.. Trott's trigger movement was analysed by aussies and attacked it in england.
If it benefits your game, keep it. If you find yourself getting out due to it then i guess you should try and drop it.
Hope it helps.
Lewis
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I would actually love to find a way to avoid doing it. I normally DON'T have one, and for me, I think odds are I will NOT be able to execute it correctly. BUT, for faster bowlers, I do struggle, and often pick the short ball a bit too late.
A typical moment would be to find myself on the front-foot, and then say "oh sh*t" as the ball ends up being short - leading to an awkward shuffle back and an awkward defence. So, given the need for extra time to play the quicks, and the preference to NOT have a trigger (its not natural for me), I figured a compromise solution is to play my normal way (head still, etc etc, leaning forward), but to stand much deeper in the crease. This way, if I am caught unaware by the short ball, I have more time, and I'm already deep in the crease.
I don't know the coaches here, but would love to hear their thoughts on this. I read Buzz's suggestion to watch the seam of the ball as the bowler runs in, and will try it as well.
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Sorry!!!
Misread your original message
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It helps to be still as much as possible and to keep your batting simple.
THe movement helps some batsmen, but the way i see it is that your balance can be shaky at times especially if you have a high backlift as well.
Best thing is to be still so that the only thing you are focused on is watching the ball.
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yes thats my view. but what do you guys think about my proposed solution?
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yes thats my view. but what do you guys think about my proposed solution?
I would actually love to find a way to avoid doing it. I normally DON'T have one, and for me, I think odds are I will NOT be able to execute it correctly. BUT, for faster bowlers, I do struggle, and often pick the short ball a bit too late.
A typical moment would be to find myself on the front-foot, and then say "oh sh*t" as the ball ends up being short - leading to an awkward shuffle back and an awkward defence. So, given the need for extra time to play the quicks, and the preference to NOT have a trigger (its not natural for me), I figured a compromise solution is to play my normal way (head still, etc etc, leaning forward), but to stand much deeper in the crease. This way, if I am caught unaware by the short ball, I have more time, and I'm already deep in the crease.
I don't know the coaches here, but would love to hear their thoughts on this. I read Buzz's suggestion to watch the seam of the ball as the bowler runs in, and will try it as well.
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if you are having trouble with the short ball then you may want to have a slightly higher back lift before the delivery. that way your bat is already at a better position to hit a pull shot.
I never stay deep in the crease because it limits your back foot play. To play the cut and the pull shot effectively i need to move my back foot back in order
to get the strength to smash a loose ball if i get one or even nudge a rising delivery towards the onside.
But if you are deep in the crease, then you can get hit wicket. unless you are a very strong front foot player and rarely play back foot shots.
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I use a back and across trigger but you need to be still at point of deliver. You also need to have your front shoulder lower than your back shoulder otherwise all your weight is going backwards. The idea is to keep the same upper body dynamic as you would if you were not triggering
I was taught to trigger over a winter with one on one sessions with Desmond Haynes and Gus Logie, they referred to it as an unweighting of the feet. Think of it that way.
It's tough to get right and if you get it wrong then you are better off standing still.
Trots trigger was weird, forward press wasn't it ..... That is the worst trigger possible, even against spin
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if only we all got coached by those guys!
what Garrettj says.
It's tough to get right and if you get it wrong then you are better off standing still.
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I recently added a trigger movement upon the recommendation of my coach. We were working to fix an issue I had with backing away to anything even remotely quick (which at my level is about 60mph+!), and I now stand about a foot away from my usual guard (leg stump) and trigger in to leg stump while the bowler is running in. I am consequently backing away much less and seem to have improved my balance. Haven't batted in a match with this trigger yet, but the form has improved in the nets, so if anyone else has the same problem, I definitely recommend this trigger!
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I recently added a trigger movement upon the recommendation of my coach. We were working to fix an issue I had with backing away to anything even remotely quick (which at my level is about 60mph+!), and I now stand about a foot away from my usual guard (leg stump) and trigger in to leg stump while the bowler is running in. I am consequently backing away much less and seem to have improved my balance. Haven't batted in a match with this trigger yet, but the form has improved in the nets, so if anyone else has the same problem, I definitely recommend this trigger!
I find this works until a good bowler spots it, and spears it in at your pads. It's hard to stop your momentum carrying you off towards the covers when ou are making such a significant movement from leg to off.
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That's when it goes wrong, when your momentum is going backwards or across or both when the ball is being delivered. Timing is everything with the trigger
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I find that if I practice and have a hit in the week I tend to stay pretty still at the crease (left hander, quite open stance) because , in my opinion, your eyes track the ball more consistently due to repetition. I found when I struggled to net I lost all sense of batting and felt fidgety at the crease like I needed a trigger to be positive.
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Up to the middle of last season (2013, UK) I had a back and across. 2013 up to this point I couldn't buy a run, decided to go right back to basics and stood still and made runs.
Now netting over the winter at Vitas, I'm standing still, more upright and balanced (most of the time) and find I'm seeing the ball a lot better. Given that I'm not strong off my pads to leg at all, the trigger made absolutely no sense.
I'm happy to trust my eyes and reflexes from a still, solid base than moving across. Different for everyone though...
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I have a trigger movement of starting from leg stumps with back foot near the crease, as the bowler running near the umpire, i just step across and backwards with my back foot half way in the crease and on middle stump, i guess its just personal preferences, i m a movement kind of person so i cant be still hence the reason why i got that trigger movement..
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Thanks guys. I've seen Haynes talk about his back and across. Just doesn't work for me as I struggle to keep my weight forward, and am late on the full ball.
I think I will try my no-trigger "solution" in the nets today (standing a bit further back in the crease to give myself some time) first, as I deem that to be less drastic a change. Fingers crossed!
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Just did 3-4 hours and did some experimenting. I tend to stand still rather than trigger and can cope upto about 85 ish on the machine (yes I got someone to randomise the deliveries). I then moved to using the back and across and I found the back foot play was better BUT the spearing yorka was an issue. My impression was if you get 85+ bowlers and play mostly back foot like pros then it's the best method. If you play Steve smith clubbie style :) then standing still is probably better. At the end of he day trial and error and find what works for you.
Oh and be realistic on the speeds you are actually ever likely to face! No point worrying or training for 80+ if most will be 65-70 for instance
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i find the press is easier.. just press forward a tad then if the bowler bangs it in push off using your front foot..
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Just did 3-4 hours and did some experimenting. I tend to stand still rather than trigger and can cope upto about 85 ish on the machine (yes I got someone to randomise the deliveries). I then moved to using the back and across and I found the back foot play was better BUT the spearing yorka was an issue. My impression was if you get 85+ bowlers and play mostly back foot like pros then it's the best method. If you play Steve smith clubbie style :) then standing still is probably better. At the end of he day trial and error and find what works for you.
Oh and be realistic on the speeds you are actually ever likely to face! No point worrying or training for 80+ if most will be 65-70 for instance
Adie. Get some video up of you facing 85. Hats off that is serious pace. 70 has always been fast enough for me on the machine.
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Stand still until release keep head still hit the bloody ball.
At that speed if your finding it comfortable your playing at the wrong level.
I was practicing the short ball last year at 82 mph for a laugh it had the last laugh it broke my albion lid around the temple..
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Stand still until release keep head still hit the bloody ball.
At that speed if your finding it comfortable your playing at the wrong level.
I was practicing the short ball last year at 82 mph for a laugh it had the last laugh it broke my albion lid around the temple..
Didn't say it was easy! Tbh I get out to medium (No Swearing Please) as I get bored and get carried away trying to smash it. Proper bowlers make it interesting :) plus it's more fun keeping them out as it annoys them. Ore due to the effort required to bowl.
I was fully strettoned up too! Just in case as it's too bloody easy to get it wrong
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I think a trigger helps in certain situations ie. Back and across to quickies for a little extra time or a slight forward press for the spinners. However you need to be still at delivery and if you can stay still without triggering then do so.
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There is a good bit somewhere by Duncan fletcher and trescothick about using a trigger to spin bowling. It's a very good read.
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so you guys think in my case (playing high pace) - its either standing still at the crease (my current, comfortable method, that fails a bit against serious pace), or doing the back and across? my proposed "no trigger" solution of standing still, but a bit deeper to buy myself time is no good?
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What kind of pace are you really facing when you play against opposition? Are you really seeing 80mph?
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What kind of pace are you really facing when you play against opposition? Are you really seeing 80mph?
Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
Exactly this, you have to realistically know what speed you'll face as the trigger really only helps (IMO for what it's worth) against true 'pace' (pace in a pros world).
I stand deep in my crease as I find it gives me more time to react to the ball. A length ball becomes back of and so hitable. If the bowler is medium plod then you can always go forward but at the amateur level it's amazing how many 'pace' bowlers drop it too short as they have a bit of a thing for it.
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its all relative to one's skills, right? if i normally play 60mph, and then see someone bowling 70mph, well that 70mph guy is my mitchel johnson.
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its all relative to one's skills, right? if i normally play 60mph, and then see someone bowling 70mph, well that 70mph guy is my mitchel johnson.
I don't think so - I think there is a balance of natural reaction times involved too. My belief is that the difference between 65-70 isn't much, but the difference between 70 and 75 is more marked for an average club player.
This is similar to quest for 90 mph bowlers as the difference for a test player between 85 mph bowling and 90+ is significant.
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I can see where Buzz is coming from, personally I feel quite comfortable with anything up to around 70/75, after that the difference is pace is certainly more noticeable I would say
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had the bowling machine at 88 in the past and don't even have time for a trigger aha
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There is a good bit somewhere by Duncan fletcher and trescothick about using a trigger to spin bowling. It's a very good read.
Yes to do with Buses!
If you know the Bus is coming, you don't want to be late for it. You might as well be early or something to that effect. What Fletcher was on about, and I am to a certain extent, is certain movements help in certain situations. Getting early onto the front foot isn't a stupid idea, as long as the movement doesn't cause timing or balance issues. ie. the forward press. Likewise if somebody bowls 80% of your deliveries half way down the deck then clearly a back and across movement would be an advantage, so long as you can still move forward for the sucker punch ball. In these cases I wouldn't call them a trigger, more a response to what you are playing against and a method to combat it. They are temporary adjustments for a situation and against the average trundle would be discarded. The problem about adding a trigger is you lose the flexibility to do something like that. Imagine if you have a forward trigger but you are facing somebody you should really be going back to, the feet would be all over the shop lol
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had the bowling machine at 88 in the past and don't even have time for a trigger aha
And this is the problem ..... A total misunderstanding of the trigger.
You should be able to trigger to someone bowling 500mph as it should be done BEFORE release. Bowling machines aren't great for those that trigger as the timing can result in it being a little to early.
English people aren't famous for playing spin .... maybe the forward press is the problem?
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yeah flexibility seems to be key. Michael Clarke changed his triggers after being bounced out by Broad in the first Ashes test. It is mentioned here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchcUUxvkHo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VchcUUxvkHo)
I didn't even think Clarke had a trigger, but I watched the replays, and sure enough, he switched from a subtle press forward, to a back and across move the first few balls he faced from Clarke in the second innings (Gabba).
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And this is the problem ..... A total misunderstanding of the trigger.
You should be able to trigger to someone bowling 500mph as it should be done BEFORE release. Bowling machines aren't great for those that trigger as the timing can result in it being a little to early.
English people aren't famous for playing spin .... maybe the forward press is the problem?
not really interested in the whole trigger discussion, I don't fuss over it
was just being light hearted. 88 was too quick for me to do anything
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I now stand about a foot away from my usual guard (leg stump) and trigger in to leg stump while the bowler is running in. I am consequently backing away much less and seem to have improved my balance. Haven't batted in a match with this trigger yet, but the form has improved in the nets, so if anyone else has the same problem, I definitely recommend this trigger!
Crumbs! Who is your coach? Mike Yardy or Kim Barnett, by the sounds...
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some good stuff here
http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-batting-with-mark-ramprakash (http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-batting-with-mark-ramprakash)
http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-trigger-movements-with-marcus-trescothick (http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-trigger-movements-with-marcus-trescothick)
http://www.alloutcricket.com/blogs/sundries/aoc-book-club-the-plan-by-steve-james (http://www.alloutcricket.com/blogs/sundries/aoc-book-club-the-plan-by-steve-james)
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Something that requires fine tuning, I think. I'm not sure many of us practice enough for achieve this.
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I was coached the back and across trigger from 10 years old by Peter Robinson the ex somerset player and coach. Just practiced and practiced and then it became second nature. Back then it wasn't called a trigger, just coached as the best way to bat and score runs.
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I found this to be interesting: Mike Hussey In The Nets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITZCppwBLOg#)
Hussey in the nets (side view - there are other youtube clips of him with other angles). He doesn't have a trigger, just leans nice and forward, and goes back when forced to. Might be what I try to do more/better of, since its so close to my current style, and also because I realize I simply do not have the time to learn a pre-delivery routine.
Here is another clip of his, describing his footwork:
Michael Hussey Masterclass The Cricket Show 2012 13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL6wlCF7S-o#ws)
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In the first video he clearly has a front foot trigger.
Great clip by the way.
Not watched the second video yet.
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hmmm, didn't think that was a "trigger" per se. seemed like he just gets in a forward leaning position, well before the ball is released. In any case, it seemed quite a subtle move.
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If you watch he stands and then when he picks his bat up his front foot triggers forward and then he moves again to play the shot.
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I was coached the back and across trigger from 10 years old by Peter Robinson the ex somerset player and coach. Just practiced and practiced and then it became second nature. Back then it wasn't called a trigger, just coached as the best way to bat and score runs.
"When I started in the 80s, ‘back and across’ was the ‘in’ thing, to get into line with a lot of the quick bowling that was around at the time. But that can lead to other problems, sometimes people’s head goes across too far with their feet – already their upper body is falling to the off side, and it can lead to them playing across straight balls. So I’m very careful not to talk about ‘back and across’ too much."
Mark Ramprakash.
Read more at http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-batting-with-mark-ramprakash#EH4ObKr7XeKkB5te.99 (http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-batting-with-mark-ramprakash#EH4ObKr7XeKkB5te.99)
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Still being coached today by majority of county coaches that i have seen. trigger or no trigger, the main thing is to find something that works for you and that helps you score runs. That is after all the aim of batting.
Who did/do you play for Bats ?
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"When I started in the 80s, ‘back and across’ was the ‘in’ thing, to get into line with a lot of the quick bowling that was around at the time. But that can lead to other problems, sometimes people’s head goes across too far with their feet – already their upper body is falling to the off side, and it can lead to them playing across straight balls. So I’m very careful not to talk about ‘back and across’ too much."
Mark Ramprakash.
Read more at [url]http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-batting-with-mark-ramprakash#EH4ObKr7XeKkB5te.99[/url] ([url]http://www.alloutcricket.com/player/coaching/aoc-coaching-batting-with-mark-ramprakash#EH4ObKr7XeKkB5te.99[/url])
maybe the reason why he was not up to test cricket???
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Still being coached today by majority of county coaches that i have seen.
Nope.
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what nope you have seen the coaches I have seen and they are not coaching it ?
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Robert Key apparently spent thousands of hours learning his trigger. So unless someone has that kind of time, I think just keep it simple. This is what I find great about the hussey clip. He keeps it simple. Here's another angle of Hussey in the nets: Australian Team Net Session: Michael Hussey, Adelaide Oval, 21 Jan 2012, Adelaide, Australia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMIg3pYk3ec#ws)