Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Topic started by: yvk3103 on October 07, 2009, 08:47:51 AM
-
Just found a video of Hawk bats being pitched against the Mongoose MMi
http://www.hawkcricket.com/News.cfm (http://www.hawkcricket.com/News.cfm)
Hawk bat hit the ball 78m
Mongoose MMi - 72m
-
That has already been posted somewhere mate.
-
looks very scientific in methodolgy!
surely its difficult to quantify a bats power as each one if different in terms of the wood used to make it, one Hawk bat maybe more powerful than the same model of X-bow perhaps and likewise for the mongoose due to the performance of the wood its made from.
-
Also the Mongoose was 1 new bat provided for the show, whereas the Hawk had been played in and was the players match bat which he used every game. The Mongoose he'd picked up for the first time and never swung it, with the 15% extra batspeed you get it can be difficult to time it the first couple of balls.
-
Also for his first shot he was only 6M off his Hawk and with a few hours of practice I think he could hit well past the 90M mark with the Mongoose!
-
Couple of things I noticed and another one someone else did...
The willow crack on impact sounds the same on both bats, that said it is difficult to hear it well over the music. It doesn't sound like the mongoose has that not knocked in sound.
The other thing that was noticed is the hawk hits a red ball and Mongoose hits a white ball
Finally the shots... The Hawk seems like it is hitting the ball in the middle area about 5-7inches from the toe. The mongoose looks like it is hitting the ball higher up on the shortened blade nearer the handle.
The mongoose performs better, I think, if the ball is hit lower down the shortened blade as there is still a deadish area, regardless of splice, near the upper regions due to willow mass... Also allows more MMOI but I suppose you can't ask the bowler to be nice to you!
-
He is a pussy 78m with his own bat!
-
I agree not the most scientific way of doing a test. Even if everything is the same (ball speed and hardness, knocked-in/played-in bats, wind speed etc) you cannot rule out the human factor. The guy might try to hit the ball with the same power but he cannot be sure of doing so.
The reason why I posted this link was to basically see if it was the right / ethical way of advertising or proving a point (if Hawk wanted to do so).
Tom, can Mongoose not object to this video being put on Hawk website for advertising?
-
I don't think that it is an easy ball to put away, I think that the ball machine should have bee for a drive of some sort.
-
He is a pussy 78m with his own bat!
mate a 78m hit is good enough to clear the ropes on most cricket grounds across the globe (wherever cricket is played).
As long as it clear the rope it is immaterial whether it is a 78m hit or a 90m + hit
-
Just to carry on from Norbair that only mesure from where it lands not from where it ends up, also the ball hit by the Mongoose looks to have a lot more speed.
-
listen to the 2 sounds aswell the mongoose sounds fantastic, and he didnt middle it like he did off his own bat!
-
mate a 78m hit is good enough to clear the ropes on most cricket grounds across the globe (wherever cricket is played).
As long as it clear the rope it is immaterial whether it is a 78m hit or a 90m + hit
mate i am 6' and 17 stone 78m i know will clear most ropes but 100m+ looks a damn site better and also allows you to laugh at the bowler!
-
no so much didn't middle as it seems there wasn't enough blade there for the ball he faced and the shot he played
-
I'm not 17 stone but 78m is just a meer flick off ones legs.
-
I agree not the most scientific way of doing a test. Even if everything is the same (ball speed and hardness, knocked-in/played-in bats, wind speed etc) you cannot rule out the human factor. The guy might try to hit the ball with the same power but he cannot be sure of doing so.
The reason why I posted this link was to basically see if it was the right / ethical way of advertising or proving a point (if Hawk wanted to do so).
Tom, can Mongoose not object to this video being put on Hawk website for advertising?
I don't know, why should we object really. It's just a bit of fun where they slog a few balls and I hope that's what most take it for. Anyone that sees our bat can see straight away there is a power benefit the main skepticism is about the shorter blade.
Hawk are in a different market to us I would say too, so from my point of view there's no need to go around chasing these people. If I were Hawk I'd be delighted to have my bat on TV and I think that's what they're probably showing rather than the Mongoose comparison.
-
I don't know, why should we object really. It's just a bit of fun where they slog a few balls and I hope that's what most take it for. Anyone that sees our bat can see straight away there is a power benefit the main skepticism is about the shorter blade.
Hawk are in a different market to us I would say too, so from my point of view there's no need to go around chasing these people. If I were Hawk I'd be delighted to have my bat on TV and I think that's what they're probably showing rather than the Mongoose comparison.
i agree and disagree.
At the end what is the message that is going across to general public. That is my concern. Hot everyone seeing that video will have read our discussion on this forum or know the facts as you pointed out (hawk bat being played-in and Mongoose being a new off the shelf and the guy having no prior experience of using one).
Tom, I have had some experience with a MNC advertising company in the client servicing function and hence my opinion. At the end what is important in visual advertising is the perceived message (which can be sometimes be very different from what is being shown or communicated). Our brain always processes information in 2 ways - (1) what the advertisement is trying to say (often difficulty for majority of the target audience to understand in the first few exposures) and (2) what we would like to see or understand (basically what i want it to be) - this easiest way to process the information.
-
Pointless test aimed for those younger viewers and simple no brain TV for the hungover.
-
hungover on a saturday - who!!!!
-
Most of my first team hence finishing 3rd after beating the unbeaten winners of the league.
-
to finish 1st you probably need better bats....
Have a word with Nipper!
-
His finest is now in the hands of another very lucky member of the special club.
-
Voldemort or Stavros Flatley
-
i see myself as a stavros to be honest, though i dont mind the comparison to voldemort!
Hopefully playing against Mike next year so he can feel the wrath of a nipper first hand! Very, Very nice bats from the lord of the yard!
-
did you enjoy the kentish weather today ?
-
Hope will not see you through, nor will the Nipper despite its undoubted quality, prepare to be knocked over by a 20 stone lump slinging slowly and poorly, time to re-enforce the stumps I think.....
Weather was great until the timber was safely in the back off the wagon...
-
lunch in the 3 chimneys?
-
Nipper was the most interesting and accomadating chap I've spoken to about bats for a long time, well he seem to be interested ;D ... If it is the bat I think it is you will not get better for a long time, sounded illegal but wasn't, phenomenal cricket bat....
At least I don't owe him a brace of partridge anymore... As for talisman easiest sledge would be "look a willow tree"
-
Sadly no, tea in Co-op made up for that though.
To deflect Norb from his cricket I would turn the TV off.
-
unfortunately for mike i will be reporting him to the league for the use of illegal cricket bats throughout the 2008/9 season - he can try sledging from the boundary but i dont think it will have the desired effect!
You are right, nipper is a very well informed gentlemen - knows his onions for sure!
No visit to the three chimneys - though it looked a decent little pub!
-
the cuppa in co-op sounded like it toped the day off! The three chimneys do some good ,but expensive food! wouldn't the guvnor buy you lunch then shilly?
-
Actually back on topic - what's people view?
Which is better from watching the video / film / motion picture / Persistence of vision
Mongoose or Hawk
-
Hawk, it hit the ball further, but what was the weight of each bat and do we rate a bat on the distance it can club a ball, surely there are more shots in the book, not mine admittedly. Also the increase in bat speed from the Mongoose is surely negated in that shot as you are not bringing the bat down solely.
-
I'd go Hawk in my opinion the mongoose needs a rethink on the design
as I said earlier you have to wait for the right ball or ask the bowler to bowl you a ball you can hit...
The Mongoose's bat speed is based on the what I call the roundabout principal... That is if you spin a roundabout around and stand in the middle [centre] you are not travelling as fast as you would be if you are on the outer edge.
Yep the mongoose bat has a faster swing speed but you to need hit in the areas where that speed will benefit you.... basically near the toe.... either that or you offset the shorten blade in some way, which I won't go into!!!!
-
How much would you say the aerodynamics of a bat affect the swing speed?
-
A lot in the lab, very little in the field. Timing can adjust for weight, balance and many other aspects of a shot, it comes was use so the more time you use a bat the better it gets.
Imperial were claiming to have a bat with an aerodynamic back creating faster bat swing 15 years ago, it didn't work. Yours would be simple as has less face to create resistance.
-
Do you have any proof to show that aerodynamics and therefore bat speed has minimal effects on shots played in the field?
-
No Tom, do you, bearing in mind lies, dammed lies and statistic's...
When cricket is ruled by those with the best marketing we will be living in America.
Norb, help before Tom uploads a print out of the latest drag reports....
-
How much would you say the aerodynamics of a bat affect the swing speed?
is that a genuine question... and do you know the answer... If yes I will answer it?
-
is that a genuine question... and do you know the answer... If yes I will answer it?
Genuine question, I don't think we've even tested it. I would guess at the answer of course being that it is more Aerodynamic but I don't know for sure.
-
No Tom, do you, bearing in mind lies, dammed lies and statistic's...
When cricket is ruled by those with the best marketing we will be living in America.
Norb, help before Tom uploads a print out of the latest drag reports....
No proof at all that bat speed, bat power or willow affects the game on the field. However basic physics would tell me that a bat swinging through quicker would therefore meet the ball at a quicker speed. With all this every action has an equal and opposite reaction stuff I would imagine the ball would come off quicker obviously assuming all other variables were the same.
-
I totally agree but what comes down must go up and for the increase in swing speed there is an equal and opposite decrease in lift speed.
-
OK from my blog.... with some alterations and I hope this make sense
Here are some examples “an extreme profile that penetrates the air more smoothly to reduce negative drag giving a lighter pickup.”
Aerodynamically designed to give greater bat speed and scientifically sculptured for a lighter pick up and superb balance
For pickup funny thing is the spine triangle shape has a higher drag coefficient then a semi circle [classic shape]Negative drag, if there is such a term, implies Lift or Thrust, so if they are saying it reduces negative drag then I can only assume it reduces thrust or lift and therefore the pickup will not be lighter it would be heavier.
The front of blade would have to reach certain speeds for an aerodynamic effect to work [standard race cars trip from mechnical to aerodynamic grip at about 70mph based on downforce] and then it would have to have something like the magnus effect [swing of cricket a ball or why there are dimples on a golf ball] to do anything. This means it would has to have certain air pressure conditions and speed to make it swing faster also to be consistent it would have a to have a constant shape a-la the dimples on golf ball to create a trip in the air flow to produce a pressure difference therefore creating increased swing speed
::::::::::edited::::::::::::::::
Marketing, gimmick or a valid Cricket Bat design option…? I'll let you decide!!
-
No proof at all that bat speed, bat power or willow affects the game on the field. However basic physics would tell me that a bat swinging through quicker would therefore meet the ball at a quicker speed. With all this every action has an equal and opposite reaction stuff I would imagine the ball would come off quicker obviously assuming all other variables were the same.
Ok newtons law of physics are right... For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction... Yep that is right!!!! I'm not going to argue with Newton
Ok that opposite reaction will include energy loss via vibration / twisting / elasiticity of the bat / heat etc etc..... you could swing the bat as hard as you like if it isn't designed / made properly [not saying that mongooses aren't] then your energy losses in other areas are significant enough for you to lose that initial gain of having a faster swing speed.
Ok now i said all that what you really need is, if you sticking with the design [and even if you are thinking of changing], is consistency in your willow and manufacturering processes if you feel you have that then fine.. Could it get better I think so but thats me... I reckon my own bats could be better, in fact I've only seen one or two bats I'd say "that is it... you will not get better then that"
Don't get me wrong I like the concept of mongoose... I would have love to bring something like that to market...
Oh I think that is enough ;D
-
Didnt Denis Lillee's aluminium bat have holes drilled through it to improve bat speed???