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General Cricket => Cricket Training, Fitness and Injuries => Topic started by: brokenbat on February 24, 2014, 08:29:16 PM

Title: how to net?
Post by: brokenbat on February 24, 2014, 08:29:16 PM
Perhaps the dumbest of dumb questions, but what is the best way to construct net sessions to allow for maximum development of one's game. Lets assume I know what I 'should' do, for all the shots in the book. Should my training then simply be a combination of:
1. 'Match intensity' practice vs one or two bowlers at a time.
and
2. Bowling machine practice, where one simply goes through each shot a few times?

Its the second one I wasn't sure of. Do I just go through each shot, at a reasonable speed? Or is there an order I should practice the shots (for example, end the session on drives, so I don't start playing across the line)?

I was thinking of playing 'real' bowling twice a week, and machine drills once or twice a week as well.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on February 24, 2014, 08:35:13 PM
Mixture of the lot :) nice and helpful I know :)

Split the time to the stsrt of the season into phases and this current phase is the best time to be learning new shots and grooving. As the season approaches you add in the more 'intense' stuff, like match situation and all that jazz.. As for speed, train on 55-60 mph so that you have time to concentrate on ensuring you are doing the right things etc.

Not that I'm an expert and I'm sure people know more than I but it seems to work for me.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: Steveo1000 on February 24, 2014, 09:00:56 PM
My advice, don't over complicate it. Especially pre season indoor nets.
Just allow players to bat and bowl. Unless there are very good coaches available then there is little chance that players will dramatically improve.
The reality for 90% of clubs and players is that nets is a social event where players find the game they had last year, then go for a beer.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on February 24, 2014, 09:04:16 PM
My advice, don't over complicate it. Especially pre season indoor nets.
Just allow players to bat and bowl. Unless there are very good coaches available then there is little chance that players will dramatically improve.
The reality for 90% of clubs and players is that nets is a social event where players find the game they had last year, then go for a beer.

Given most clubs (inc big ones) don't have good coaches then how do you expect people to improve just by having a hit and giggle social ?
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ppccopener on February 24, 2014, 09:19:33 PM
Big call this 90 per cent of clubs use nets as a social
Im looking to improve a little bit every winter net session and during practice thru the season
Im 47 and have been playing since 14.
I dont let anyone get me out at nets and dont slog
I think it was stuart law who said once you are past 30 you need to train and practice twice as hard as everyone else just to keep up
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: FvanN on February 24, 2014, 09:20:39 PM
Given most clubs (inc big ones) don't have good coaches then how do you expect people to improve just by having a hit and giggle social ?

I think it comes down to application.

For myself I'm trying to learn how to bowl an out swinging delivery to a right hander and while batting I have been working on stance, getting more in line and not swinging at everything.  Just the 4 things really.

I have found that there are different guys at our club who can offer advice in each area. I just seem to struggle putting it into action :)
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: Steveo1000 on February 24, 2014, 09:30:15 PM
Given most clubs (inc big ones) don't have good coaches then how do you expect people to improve just by having a hit and giggle social ?
Without good coaches how do they improve?
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: potzy248 on February 24, 2014, 09:31:30 PM
When I bat in the nets I use game situations and look to play balls into gaps, score where fielders aren't etc. I also like to keep score e.g. I hit a shot to cover and say 1 for that or cream a pull shot and say 4 etc. I actually get really angry when i get out after keeping score.

When I'm coaching its all about game situations. Giving the players a scenario like first 10 overs 2 slips and a gully no cover etc. Or middle overs spinners are on field spread etc etc. I also like to take away areas they can score such as mid off and mid on. they have to manipulate the ball into midwicket and cover for a single. Another good tip for kids is saying they can only score in a very small area in the nets, even if the ball is pitched in a seemingly impossible angle they still have to try and work it to the area. if they can't do it in 3 balls they get a punishment. Making Nets interesting is one of the hardest things to do, especially with young players who just want to hit everything out of the back of the net.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: Steveo1000 on February 24, 2014, 09:37:13 PM
When I bat in the nets I use game situations and look to play balls into gaps, score where fielders aren't etc. I also like to keep score e.g. I hit a shot to cover and say 1 for that or cream a pull shot and say 4 etc. I actually get really angry when i get out after keeping score.

When I'm coaching its all about game situations. Giving the players a scenario like first 10 overs 2 slips and a gully no cover etc. Or middle overs spinners are on field spread etc etc. I also like to take away areas they can score such as mid off and mid on. they have to manipulate the ball into midwicket and cover for a single. Another good tip for kids is saying they can only score in a very small area in the nets, even if the ball is pitched in a seemingly impossible angle they still have to try and work it to the area. if they can't do it in 3 balls they get a punishment. Making Nets interesting is one of the hardest things to do, especially with young players who just want to hit everything out of the back of the net.
Instead of getting them to try and work a ball into a small area despite where it pitches, why not coach them to just whack it really hard based on where it has pitched? That is the modern game.
Over coaching of kids drives me insane. Let them play, let them whack it and refine it a bit later. What punishment to you administer?
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on February 24, 2014, 10:08:54 PM
Without good coaches how do they improve?

You don't need coaches to improve though. You can improve without paying someone/listening to the one coach teaches all.

Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ppccopener on February 24, 2014, 10:19:16 PM
Exactly..you can improve yourself just by sticking to the basics,depends what standard you are but there is usually a player you could speak to in most clubs who could offer a tip or two
I presume the comment in this thread about ' a punishment' for kids not doing something right is a mis- print
Kids coaching should be focused on enjoyment and fun
I'm referring mainly to club cricket obviously
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: Steveo1000 on February 24, 2014, 10:34:36 PM
You don't need coaches to improve though. You can improve without paying someone/listening to the one coach teaches all.
I agree. If you don't have qualified and dedicated coaches then you rely on advice and tips from senior players.
I guess what was trying to explain (perhaps not very well) in my original post is this. If you do not have a structured coaching system in place then you don't have coaches who can put a structure in place. In that event, don't try and over complicate it and take responsibility for your own improvement. Talk to senior players and have some personal goals.
In my experience, if an overly structured approach is applied by unqualified coaches to a 60/90 min pre season indoor net it doesn't achieve  great deal.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: potzy248 on February 25, 2014, 02:00:00 AM
Instead of getting them to try and work a ball into a small area despite where it pitches, why not coach them to just whack it really hard based on where it has pitched? That is the modern game.
Over coaching of kids drives me insane. Let them play, let them whack it and refine it a bit later. What punishment to you administer?

Totally agree with you. Its actually a bit of fun when we do this. I mainly use the behind the leg side as an area. The boys use their feet and wrists to get the ball there, or try little deft paddles etc, not meaning to make it sound regimental or difficult.

Punishments are usually just getting the player to stand at the back of the net while the rest of the team throw inferior made cricket balls at them…. Just joking
Usually sitting out while another batsman takes there place or running a quick 5 runs between the wickets. Nothing major.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: cesare_in on February 25, 2014, 08:13:53 AM
Big call this 90 per cent of clubs use nets as a social
Im looking to improve a little bit every winter net session and during practice thru the season
Im 47 and have been playing since 14.
I dont let anyone get me out at nets and dont slog
I think it was stuart law who said once you are past 30 you need to train and practice twice as hard as everyone else just to keep up
Good suggestion that!
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: joeljonno on February 25, 2014, 01:04:08 PM
Given most clubs (inc big ones) don't have good coaches then how do you expect people to improve just by having a hit and giggle social ?

The problem is that you cannot train batsmen and bowlers at the same time in a big group.  Most club-provided cricket nets are to give the chance to get the players back into a bit of rhythm and touch.

If a player is wanting to improve, the bowlers should look to bowl good areas and batsmen to focus on playing correct shots to those deliveries. It will not benefit a bowler to bowl short balls to improve the batsman if he is not that type of bowler.

To improve, surely it is the responsibility of the individual player to organise their own structured practices, either batting with a bowling machine or bowling into an empty net (target bowling).



Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: fasteddie on February 25, 2014, 01:13:57 PM
Big call this 90 per cent of clubs use nets as a social
Im looking to improve a little bit every winter net session and during practice thru the season
Im 47 and have been playing since 14.
I dont let anyone get me out at nets and dont slog
I think it was stuart law who said once you are past 30 you need to train and practice twice as hard as everyone else just to keep up

Very well put.

That does mean that you and I (at our age) should be forced to net every single day! It's a great excuse when walking out of the door and the wife loses her cool.

I agree about the 'not out and no slogging rule'. It's good discipline. I'm trying to get my 18yr old to adopt that but he still persists in reverse sweeping and switch hitting to all parts.
We also ask the bowlers to bowl as it where our home ground and not try and kill the batters, again hard to stop my youngster trying to kill me, but we can but try.

I've listened to the audiobook call 'Bounce' by Matthew Said. He claims 'purposeful practice' is the key. Many, many, many hours of it. I'd recommend that book.

See you in the nets!
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on February 25, 2014, 01:53:56 PM
The problem is that you cannot train batsmen and bowlers at the same time in a big group.  Most club-provided cricket nets are to give the chance to get the players back into a bit of rhythm and touch.

If a player is wanting to improve, the bowlers should look to bowl good areas and batsmen to focus on playing correct shots to those deliveries. It will not benefit a bowler to bowl short balls to improve the batsman if he is not that type of bowler.

To improve, surely it is the responsibility of the individual player to organise their own structured practices, either batting with a bowling machine or bowling into an empty net (target bowling).

not sure why you've quoted me fella as you are basically agreeing with me ???

1) It's rare to find a decent bowler who is prepared to actually bowl lines and lengths and not get sucked into bouncers indoors
2) It's rare to find batsmen playing authentic shots to balls, defending the good ones and not openly slogging the part timers who come along to nets
3) It's rare to find a batsmen actually training something AND getting enough quality in that area to make it worth while
4) the odd 10/15 mins batting really isn't going to help much if we are honest is it
5) bowlers rarely target bowl in the nets.. they get sucked in to bouncers

So yeah, I completely agree that training a group of bowlers and batsmen won't work at the club level as everyone is out ot prove how good they are rather than actually train. so batsmen start slogging (or turn into batsmen who just hit through the line), bowlers start bouncing as they don't like being hit etc (I don't blame them tbh). What gets me is when they know you are playing properly and still find it amusing in your 15 mins to give you more bouncers than decent balls..zzz yeah that's worth training mate.. you cant' do that outside (well, not without getting smacked!) and it's no training for me either as no idiot bowls there..zzz

bowlers should stick to learnign control, learn how to block an end up (plug away on a length in the corridor) etc.. once they master that, start doing target training.. so get them to bowl everything full, everything back of a length.. yorkas etc. bouncers are pointless though for most club cricketers.. not only aren't they fast enough but the wickets aren't really good enough to make it effective.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: tim2000s on February 25, 2014, 02:59:32 PM

5) bowlers rarely target bowl in the nets.. they get sucked in to bouncers


I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Most of the proper bowlers, and that's a key comment, PROPER, tend to bowl good line and length in nets to try and make the batsman struggle. I think that is exactly what they should be doing, and generally it doesn't involve the shorter ball. You are trying to hit the stumps or take the edge.

It's generally the part time bowlers who do the stupid stuff, in my experience...
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: jamielsn15 on February 25, 2014, 04:23:33 PM

I've listened to the audiobook call 'Bounce' by Matthew Said. He claims 'purposeful practice' is the key. Many, many, many hours of it. I'd recommend that book.

See you in the nets!

'Bounce' is a superb book.  I studied Sports Psychology at Uni (way back when, I'm in my late thirties now), the most inaccurate term is 'practice makes perfect.' If you think about it, its the most ridiculous statement.

More accurate is 'practice makes permanent.' It could be perfect, it could more likely be not.  However you practice/net, will groove technique, but if you're doing it wrong, it won't be perfect.

Similarly, as you quote Syed, what's the point in practice if its not purposeful?  How many times do you visit a gym, to see people sat on bikes or on cross trainers checking their phones?  Its a social experience, as nets can be for players - but is it making them fitter/better?  Not likely.

Therefore everything you do should be purposeful to you.  It may not be perfect, as clubs may not be lucky enough to have qualified coaches on hand at every net, but you should be able to self-analyse and test yourself, be that through disciplined play (remaining not out/not slogging, etc.) or working to groove a technique, especially with a bowling machine.

We had out first club nets on Friday.  Three or four players came out after slogging a few, getting bowled, yet hitting 3-4 good shots in 10 minutes and all said "good net that, great to be back straight into form" ?!?!  You were probably out caught for 4 or bowled for 8!

I would suggest that regular purposeful practice is the key for those not lucky enough to have access to one-on-one sessions or a bowling machine...
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: jamielsn15 on February 25, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Most of the proper bowlers, and that's a key comment, PROPER, tend to bowl good line and length in nets to try and make the batsman struggle. I think that is exactly what they should be doing, and generally it doesn't involve the shorter ball. You are trying to hit the stumps or take the edge.

It's generally the part time bowlers who do the stupid stuff, in my experience...

How's this for a special kind of stupid?  The club has invested in side arms for nets.  No one has experience of using them, yet they are flinging them down full pelt at batsmen, coming out as beamers, etc.  And batsman are going into net against them without helmets...!  For what its worth I refused to bat against anyone using it.

I'm assuming Darwin's natural selection theory will prevail...
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: Stuey on February 25, 2014, 08:07:55 PM
To train effectively you need a focus or goal to work towards, otherwise you might as well go home.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: ppccopener on February 25, 2014, 08:59:17 PM
Side arms are quite difficult to control
We only let 2 blokes use them otherwise its full bungers as you have experienced!!
When it is on target the ball does come onto you much quicker than you might imagine
 :)
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: tate035 on February 26, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
Side arms are quite difficult to control
We only let 2 blokes use them otherwise its full bungers as you have experienced!!
When it is on target the ball does come onto you much quicker than you might imagine
 :)

Sidearms are like most things. The more you practice the better you get. I have used the junior one and last year invested in the senior one. I can't bowl at the speed my son needs me to bowl at naturally so the sidearm is great.
My son is at a county academy and the coaches there all use sidearms. One or two of them can get genuine swing when using them.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: GarrettJ on February 26, 2014, 11:44:00 AM
one way to use a sidearm is to do it gently but do it off 15 yards.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: TangoWhiskey on February 26, 2014, 12:53:21 PM
Here's my net routine:

Get there 15 minutes early.
Warm up with a Cigarette.
Put pads on before anyone else turns up, this ensures I get to bat first every week.
Swing my nuts off as hard as I can at almost every delivery.
Take a mental note as to who has tried to bump me throughout my batting.
Attempt a paddle scoop when chasing 16 off the last 6 deliveries.
Take pads off.
Find the hardest ball left.
Target the earlier bumpers by bowling as fast and short as I physically can at them, usually injuring myself in the process.
Try a bit of off spin.
Try a leggy.
Straight back to off spin.
Warm down with a cigarette.

Quite a lot to fit in to an hour on a Wednesday evening actually now I think of it.
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: fasteddie on February 26, 2014, 01:42:06 PM
Here's my net routine:

Get there 15 minutes early.
Warm up with a Cigarette.
Put pads on before anyone else turns up, this ensures I get to bat first every week.
Swing my nuts off as hard as I can at almost every delivery.
Take a mental note as to who has tried to bump me throughout my batting.
Attempt a paddle scoop when chasing 16 off the last 6 deliveries.
Take pads off.
Find the hardest ball left.
Target the earlier bumpers by bowling as fast and short as I physically can at them, usually injuring myself in the process.
Try a bit of off spin.
Try a leggy.
Straight back to off spin.
Warm down with a cigarette.

Quite a lot to fit in to an hour on a Wednesday evening actually now I think of it.

No beer?
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: trypewriter on February 26, 2014, 01:57:56 PM
I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Most of the proper bowlers, and that's a key comment, PROPER, tend to bowl good line and length in nets to try and make the batsman struggle. I think that is exactly what they should be doing, and generally it doesn't involve the shorter ball. You are trying to hit the stumps or take the edge.

It's generally the part time bowlers who do the stupid stuff, in my experience...

...mixed in with that nasty inswinger that follows the batsman...  ;)
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: yogi206 on February 26, 2014, 01:59:54 PM
Here's my net routine:

Get there 15 minutes early.
Warm up with a Cigarette.
Put pads on before anyone else turns up, this ensures I get to bat first every week.
Swing my nuts off as hard as I can at almost every delivery.
Take a mental note as to who has tried to bump me throughout my batting.
Attempt a paddle scoop when chasing 16 off the last 6 deliveries.
Take pads off.
Find the hardest ball left.
Target the earlier bumpers by bowling as fast and short as I physically can at them, usually injuring myself in the process.
Try a bit of off spin.
Try a leggy.
Straight back to off spin.
Warm down with a cigarette.

Quite a lot to fit in to an hour on a Wednesday evening actually now I think of it.

excellent
Title: Re: how to net?
Post by: TangoWhiskey on February 26, 2014, 02:10:09 PM
No beer?

They don't serve beer at the nets, so technically it's on the drive home after I've finished.