Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: uknsaunders on March 13, 2014, 12:59:28 PM
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Less measuring, more a way of viewing it using a cut up bat grip:-
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-joOCyiv1tRQ/UyGo2YYZALI/AAAAAAAAZks/P7wKN7nCs8g/w1020-h577-no/IMAG0071.jpg)
I would say that's moderate concaving.
Might be useful for future sales threads.
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So this is what happens when you 'work from home' everyday!
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lol - I am allowed a lunch hour Fros, even though I don't normally take it.
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See I'd say that is little concaving.
What do we also do when the concaving is different along the blade?
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I measured it at the peak of the spine. I guess you could adjust it up and down taking pics of each position.
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That's 5 percent concaving based on the Lekka scale.
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I guess it's not all snaded in a perfect radius, but could you not then measure the distance from the grip to the bat in the middle of each side?
This place is soon going to explode, with each description of a bat having a seemingly meaningless set of numbers and codes that only hardened posters will understand!
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I'm only just recovering from the pick up thread!
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I did have a think afterwards. Piece of string might be a solution to creating an actual number. Measure it tight as above and then running along the back of the bat. Closer it is to a 1:1 ratio the less it is concaved. You could even conceive an metric similar to pickup - BCI (Bat Concave Index) lol
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See, I would say that's Light concaving!
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See, I would say that's Light concaving!
i agree. doesnt look a lot of concaving at all. Maybe we need a Steak style scale to cover minor overlapping
not concaved
minor concaving
minor to mid concaving
mid concaving
mid to high concaving
high/heavy concaving.
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See, I would say that's Light concaving!
That's interesting. Yet the "special CA" featured in IJC's video, you regarded as "reasonably concaved"?
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Be interesting to see a few other bats.
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i agree. doesnt look a lot of concaving at all. Maybe we need a Steak style scale to cover minor overlapping
not concaved
minor concaving
minor to mid concaving
mid concaving
mid to high concaving
high/heavy concaving.
I would also agree. Not much concaving there.
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That's interesting. Yet the "special CA" featured in IJC's video, you regarded as "reasonably concaved"?
Based on a measure with against no straight lines...! Perceptions differ with no datum and going back and taking a look, I'd still say it was more concaved than this!
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So this is what happens when you 'work from home' everyday!
Agreed! Our outfield will hopefully be getting a cut every single day this summer!
Also, nick! Are you going for a record amount of topics started in a week ;)
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Agreed! Our outfield will hopefully be getting a cut every single day this summer!
Also, nick! Are you going for a record amount of topics started in a week ;)
lol - seems that way but it comes in fits and starts on CBF. This week I seem to have so much to share :D
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Just tried some pics with a rope...
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/Concaving/DSC_0029_zps368adff1.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/Concaving/DSC_0029_zps368adff1.jpg.html)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/Concaving/DSC_0032_zpsdb95a54b.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/Concaving/DSC_0032_zpsdb95a54b.jpg.html)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/Concaving/DSC_0030_zps12fe7192.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/Concaving/DSC_0030_zps12fe7192.jpg.html)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BioE-lcIAAErmdu.jpg)
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You seem to have forgotten the rubber and/rope garrett
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Kal that first one strikes me as extreme concaving - anyone got anything more concaved than that?
John, sell me that bat, I'm stupid enough to by it for the beauty of it's bum shot! You don't consider that to be overtly concaved do you?
I think Puma are the kings of this by the way.
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Kal that first one strikes me as extreme concaving - anyone got anything more concaved than that?
I think my ricochet might have come close, i did sell it last week though!
Will see if i've got an old picture anywhere, but there won't be any rubber or rope i'm afraid
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Get the pics up and share the concaving shame!
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Pumas of old were seriously concaved. But the new ranges are seemingly not as bad.
Ton in the past were heavily concaved.
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Get the pics up and share the concaving shame!
Not the best angle to show it but you should get the idea!
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/9D0EDA27-002C-4F77-BFB4-B34D27C3852A_zps3fok6uad.jpg) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/9D0EDA27-002C-4F77-BFB4-B34D27C3852A_zps3fok6uad.jpg.html)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/B9255823-7BB8-4003-8BD2-47E9E3EE9C8F_zpseo8se2qu.png) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/B9255823-7BB8-4003-8BD2-47E9E3EE9C8F_zpseo8se2qu.png.html)
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Kal that first one strikes me as extreme concaving - anyone got anything more concaved than that?
I believe it is...it's the GN Oblivion Players
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Not the best angle to show it but you should get the idea!
([url]http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/9D0EDA27-002C-4F77-BFB4-B34D27C3852A_zps3fok6uad.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/9D0EDA27-002C-4F77-BFB4-B34D27C3852A_zps3fok6uad.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/B9255823-7BB8-4003-8BD2-47E9E3EE9C8F_zpseo8se2qu.png[/url]) ([url]http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/B9255823-7BB8-4003-8BD2-47E9E3EE9C8F_zpseo8se2qu.png.html[/url])
My guess would be minor-mid concaving
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That bat has very little spine to concave from!!
Its the kookaburra pancake.....
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Kal that first one strikes me as extreme concaving - anyone got anything more concaved than that?
John, sell me that bat, I'm stupid enough to by it for the beauty of it's bum shot! You don't consider that to be overtly concaved do you?
I think Puma are the kings of this by the way.
its not overly concaved, 35mm edges and 65mm spine. £185 + postage you can have it.
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Somebody showed me a bat Saturday with the scooping going below the edge. Looked like the edges and the spine were the same height. Think I also saw one similar at vitas.
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Concaving my findings.
Extreme.
Puma at 2.9
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/20140313_212124_zpsh40mmynv.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/20140313_212124_zpsh40mmynv.jpg.html)
Shark at 2.12
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/20140313_211911_zpsors2yrnc.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/20140313_211911_zpsors2yrnc.jpg.html)
Used to keep weight down?
But
Malik at 3lb is still concaved?
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/20140313_211700_zpstqfbx5by.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/20140313_211700_zpstqfbx5by.jpg.html)
Six6 at 3lb not that concaved
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/20140313_211746_zpsjwaq8kwm.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/20140313_211746_zpsjwaq8kwm.jpg.html)
B3 at 3.2 slightly concaved. which is a shock as I'm sure I asked for it to be non??
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/20140313_212001_zpsrlgdqszb.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/20140313_212001_zpsrlgdqszb.jpg.html)
Purist at 2.15 Not a bit of concaving!
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/20140313_211829_zpsknep7v2k.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/20140313_211829_zpsknep7v2k.jpg.html)
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It might be my eyes, but the Purist looks more concaved than the B3 to me.
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Spine just looks lower. Not much spine on the six6. Some shocking concaving going on there!
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Why is concaving such a big deal?
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Why is concaving such a big deal?
Use the search function...
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B&S LE 2.10
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/Concaving/20140313_192801_zps628vlseg.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/Concaving/20140313_192801_zps628vlseg.jpg.html)
Puma Iridium 4000 2.11
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/Concaving/20140313_192635_zpssaznqjaq.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/Concaving/20140313_192635_zpssaznqjaq.jpg.html)
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Not the best angle to show it but you should get the idea!
([url]http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/9D0EDA27-002C-4F77-BFB4-B34D27C3852A_zps3fok6uad.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/9D0EDA27-002C-4F77-BFB4-B34D27C3852A_zps3fok6uad.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/B9255823-7BB8-4003-8BD2-47E9E3EE9C8F_zpseo8se2qu.png[/url]) ([url]http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/B9255823-7BB8-4003-8BD2-47E9E3EE9C8F_zpseo8se2qu.png.html[/url])
Ahh, my old Kookaburra Ricochet. The whole reason I sold it was for the ridiculous amount of concaving.
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Somebody showed me a bat Saturday with the scooping going below the edge. Looked like the edges and the spine were the same height. Think I also saw one similar at vitas.
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Blueroom did a few bats like that 2-3 years ago, where the bottom of the scoop was well below the edge.
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Blueroom did a few bats like that 2-3 years ago, where the bottom of the scoop was well below the edge.
I think there were some interesting Kook Recoils in recent times with scooping like that...
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Use the search function...
It was a fair question and a slightly more polite response would have been appropriate I think.
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Why is concaving such a big deal?
The deal with this is that I know what concaving does and what the point of concaving is.
my point is surely you should know what kind of a player you are and whether concaving will help you or not.
I don't understand why people on here get so worked up with concaving.
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I believe the overall issue against, is when the edge is higher than where the concaving I.e the concaving is done to Make a 2.8 bat have 45mm edges, but the spine is only 55mm and the meat between drops to 35mm.
It's a big deal for some(have a look at a few threads regarding custom bats where the ops are adamant they want no concaving, and I don't think they don't understand why)
For others(including me) it's not such a big deal. Some of my bats have it, some don't.
Weight/pick up/rebound are more important factors.
Concaving can apparently help with the pick up off a bat.
But
It also apparently shrinks the sweetspot(beleivable on some bats but not all)
But at the end of the day, you buy a bat to suit your game, and give you confidence. You shouldn't buy a bat to impress a forum.
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http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=26106.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=26106.0)
Shame the blog isn't there anymore, it was a brilliant piece, but I have the text below:-
Came across this amazing blog and extremely well written so thought Id share it with members here :D
Thought I’d get one done as I will more then likely be out of the blogging loop for a while. Please note this is assuming that the cleft start weights are the same, which they generally are if you making a bat to target weight.
We eat with our eyes
Do you buy cricket bats with your eyes, is the first thing you say when you see a bat, “Look at the size of those edges” and do you hear “40mm edges, oh and it only weights 2lb 8oz” in reply from its proud owner, phenomenal, well is it!
Stuck now, where do I go for the next bit, smoke and mirrors, myths or concaving. Hold on I have a plan….
Smoke and mirrors, myths and traditional vs concaving
See what I did there
TRADITIONAL VS CONCAVING
I won’t say this is the age old question as it is fairly new to the world of cricket in the scheme of things but a question often asked nowadays. Concaving gives you a big edge and traditional doesnt, eating with your eyes again. So what the difference, a quick diagram below.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdzKlqZ2uYCAAq_IVPn_qhrxCplTVbilVgPLVHmTCxwc5LzKda)
I suppose you are wondering what that is? Well you should just be able to make out the two styles of cricket bats. What I’ve done is draw some lines joining the two at various heights to show you where the traditional bat would have the same size edges as the concaved bat and where the concaved bat would have the same size edge as the traditional bat. You have to imagine that you are shaving either of them along the edge so the edges match in size.
Ok on the bottom you have the amount of willow behind the face based on its edge size, so for example the concaved bat has a larger width for the orange section then the traditional bat. Then you look at the traditional bat you’ll see the middle the red bit is larger then the concaved bat, the pink bit.
Now if you read that and understood what I trying to say you have probably guessed the next bit. If I concave a bat I get a better edge. Cue another picture
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/mgxtBdC4uXY58yxez2arQhCp_sl6kXv2qmA09XjtFpv3=w571-h207-p-no)
On the traditional bat the orange to green bit shows where it lags behind the concaved bat, oh and I stuck a dirty great box around it Not much hey in the scheme things, you are suppose to be using the middle afterall
So when does the traditional bat start making a name for itself! Cue another one of my special diagrams.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8nxXmy-K7Og/UyLiasdYK0I/AAAAAAAAZm0/2joHs2Pi2Ks/w240-h87-no/edge+box.jpg)
You wont think I was a qualified Mechanical Engineer with these wonderous technical drawings Oh dear concaving isnt fairing well, we’ve got more willow over a large surface area on the traditional bat and as we know Force = mass x acceleration
Below is a close up view, seems the middle – middle [red and pink bits] is over a larger area on the traditional bat as well
http://www.safbats.co.uk/BAT-BLOG/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Diff1_Bat_edges1.jpg (http://www.safbats.co.uk/BAT-BLOG/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Diff1_Bat_edges1.jpg)
LARGE EDGE = GOOD BAT, MYTH
So what do you reckon of the that 40mm edged bat now, it is food for thought isnt it! Don’t assume that a traditional profile isn’t good because the edge size is small, it will pack some punch.
SMOKE AND MIRRORS
Ok flat faced bats, a flat bat instead of curve gives the impression of a larger edge!
http://www.safbats.co.uk/BAT-BLOG/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/pressrollerr1.jpgPressing (http://www.safbats.co.uk/BAT-BLOG/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/pressrollerr1.jpgPressing) differences
I know the flat one is a bit extreme but you get the idea, if you edge a ball it will compress to something similar to the curved faced bat plus you have to knock the edge in, that square edge will to a certain extent sooner rather then later resemble the curved face bat and at least the curve face was pressed to be like that so it shouldn’t of cracked up in the process, smoke and mirrors to give you a big edge?
Also as we know you could shave the edge down a bit from 4.25 inches to something less, Please note this is also done intentionally on some bats not just smoke a mirrors. Then the unscrupulous over dried willow technique, lets make a normal cleft light by taking the moisture out of it.
I think I’ll stop there… on a final please note, this is intended to make you aware of the potential differences between bats and give you a respect for each shape. There are always merits to shapes if you understand the what and why about them. I make both types, traditional and concaved but as with all my bats I understand them they aren’t one dimensional. If I had to make a bat that was ring fenced I’d give it all up.
Thanks All
Andy
Bat Maker / Podshaver originally from Devon
http://www.safbats.co.uk/BAT-BLOG/cricket-bat/cricket-bats-edges-concaving-myths-smoke-and-mirrors (http://www.safbats.co.uk/BAT-BLOG/cricket-bat/cricket-bats-edges-concaving-myths-smoke-and-mirrors)
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The joys of searching. You finally find the info and either the blog hasn't kept the domain payments, or all the pics have been deleted from the ops photobucket!
Why do people do this!!
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interesting post uknsaunders - but as I said - I know what it is and what it does - the question is WHY do people get worked up about levels of concaving?? :o
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interesting post uknsaunders - but as I said - I know what it is and what it does - the question is WHY do people get worked up about levels of concaving?? :o
Purely because of the aesthetic of it...
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Purely because of the aesthetic of it...
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
one mans Honour Blackman is another man's Scarlett Johansson...
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I wouldn't say no if she looked like this still ;)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJQPePU7geaN4JPjJ6LPPz_F3WLUi0a378erjI1hU-8etJ9QLvNQ)
How they got away with calling her Pussy Galore in Goldfinger I will never know.
Couple more bats, firstly a GM Icon:-
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zpl03N81w84/UyHh5FYltaI/AAAAAAAAZlE/f5cQ1xmC5xc/w1020-h577-no/IMAG0072.jpg)
Then my b3
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7TEkkVVAg2I/UyLZcnZvRKI/AAAAAAAAZmg/uc0fzwe89dQ/w1020-h577-no/IMAG0076.jpg)
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It was a fair question and a slightly more polite response would have been appropriate I think.
I didn't mean for it to come accross as rude. :-[
Uknsaunders found and re-posted the article I had thought of so no harm done... :)
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so what exactly is the issue with concaving?
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so what exactly is the issue with concaving?
None as such. It is certainly interesting to see how much some bats have been concaved. End of the day it's a balance between edge size/middle spine and the amount of concaving you have to keep the weight down. If we could all have bats with big edges and no-concaving we would but sometimes it can't be done. I've never really had a bat with huge concaving but it would be interesting to see what others say about on/off centre performace compared to a bat without concaving.
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i use an MH Distinction 2010 shape and its just one big middle, i put that down to the massive spine running the entire length of the hitting area. Edges are 20mm, spine 75mm, its concaved but the back never goes below the edge.
It broke and i have used/borrowed about 6 different bats since and they have all been noticeably inferior and with significantly less concaving.
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Sorry, No string
(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/d7bow/Photo%20upload/6423E2CE-DCBF-43D1-A793-1CEFB123A0E1_zpsfxsut03n.jpg) (http://s752.photobucket.com/user/d7bow/media/Photo%20upload/6423E2CE-DCBF-43D1-A793-1CEFB123A0E1_zpsfxsut03n.jpg.html)(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/d7bow/Photo%20upload/7714B8B3-8D40-4589-8DE2-5B4426D6F6F5_zpsg7r6sldf.jpg) (http://s752.photobucket.com/user/d7bow/media/Photo%20upload/7714B8B3-8D40-4589-8DE2-5B4426D6F6F5_zpsg7r6sldf.jpg.html)
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My MSR Premier Elite @ 2.10...no concaving just the way I like it :)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/Concaving/20140314_145135_zpsybeuifrm.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/Concaving/20140314_145135_zpsybeuifrm.jpg.html)
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Sorry, No string
([url]http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/d7bow/Photo%20upload/6423E2CE-DCBF-43D1-A793-1CEFB123A0E1_zpsfxsut03n.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s752.photobucket.com/user/d7bow/media/Photo%20upload/6423E2CE-DCBF-43D1-A793-1CEFB123A0E1_zpsfxsut03n.jpg.html[/url])
Look at the spine on this one...looks like a camel's back!!
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To me that is not massively concaved just a steep spine
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-A7mFZx5FFy0/UyNk6JW7x1I/AAAAAAAAA5c/0ZPLard_jWk/s800/DSC06550.JPG)
The current Newbery GT .
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QPNOHhV35OE/UyNk-tuKXlI/AAAAAAAAA5k/hWhwy4kCGC4/s800/DSC06553.JPG)r
The original Newbery GT .
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That's a bit cheeky. I expect the edge is bigger on the new one?
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That's a bit cheeky. I expect the edge is bigger on the new one?
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The new GT has a little bit wood removed from the top half along with subtle concave to add onto the edges. I am still not sure which one is better, but the pick up on the old GT is sublime that you could almost caress the balls to the boundary.
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Loving this topic
Will post come pics later
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concaving or no concaving
Simple question, where do u hit the ball most, and so where do u want to see the most wood.
Concaving effectively takes wood out of the hitting zone and redistributing to the edge. Giving a visually pleasing bat. If done correctly it can be a good way of bringing weight down, improving pick up without compromising on playability. The problem we face is, we all want massive bats at light weights, unfortunately willow doesn't always come like that.
Where it is done extreme and the incurve goes below the edge I reckon you're killing the bats rebound ability. Where there remains sufficient "depth or thickness" of wood still behind the ball you're not.
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I would say anything where the concaving stops the spine from rising at the edge can't be good. The idea of a spine is to increase power in the shot and if you end up with a few mm in the middle, almost like a shark fin effect, then most of the bat doesn't have a middle just an extended edge.
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I would say anything where the concaving stops the spine from rising at the edge can't be good. The idea of a spine is to increase power in the shot and if you end up with a few mm in the middle, almost like a shark fin effect, then most of the bat doesn't have a middle just an extended edge.
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Except the scoop disproved this theory.
I'd like a well pressed 2lb10oz bat with a uniform distribution of mass along the blade. A railway sleeper if you will.
I suspect that while it might look daft, it would still hit sixes...
Thinking about it further, I wonder whether the spine on a cricket bat was simply introduced as a structural element to stop a plank shaped bat snapping as easily and has no real bearing on performance? I think another batmakers challenge is on the cards.
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I was waiting for the scoop comment lol
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Except the scoop disproved this theory.
I'd like a well pressed 2lb10oz bat with a uniform distribution of mass along the blade. A railway sleeper if you will.
I suspect that while it might look daft, it would still hit sixes...
Thinking about it further, I wonder whether the spine on a cricket bat was simply introduced as a structural element to stop a plank shaped bat snapping as easily and has no real bearing on performance? I think another batmakers challenge is on the cards.
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I'm also thinking Newbery Tour, they'd all be blanks if the spine was vital (and now I think of it, I can't think of any Newbery's with a huge spine...)
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Red ink made someone a flat backed cricket bat didn't they?
Also the gn duel t20 twin sided bat. Warner hit sixes with it! Although I believe he only sued it in two matches.
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got the string out
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Biw_Q0sIIAAfnbE.jpg:large)
left to right in my opinion
very slight
slight
slight to medium
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Except the scoop disproved this theory.
I'd like a well pressed 2lb10oz bat with a uniform distribution of mass along the blade. A railway sleeper if you will.
I suspect that while it might look daft, it would still hit sixes...
Thinking about it further, I wonder whether the spine on a cricket bat was simply introduced as a structural element to stop a plank shaped bat snapping as easily and has no real bearing on performance? I think another batmakers challenge is on the cards.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
If you introduce a spine as a structural element to prevent the bat snapping it should also improve performance as you have effectively made the bat structurally stiffer, which will make the ball rebound better off the bat. It would be interesting if anyone had done a cad element analysis of the structural performance of different shaped bats.
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If you introduce a spine as a structural element to prevent the bat snapping it should also improve performance as you have effectively made the bat structurally stiffer, which will make the ball rebound better off the bat. It would be interesting if anyone had done a cad element analysis of the structural performance of different shaped bats.
That's a fair point that I hadn't considered, although given the material at hand and the level of compression the unpressed section below the crust can sustain, does it make a lot of difference? We aren't dealing with a uniform material.
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