Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: rhino25 on March 20, 2014, 12:22:35 PM
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Hey Guys,
I have just started my own brand here in Australia - in North Queensland. I don't make my own bats (unfortunately) but I have an extremely reputable supplier assisting with the design and making of the bats. I would love some input into the design of a new profile. We are looking at releasing it in time for the next Aussie season (or as demanded) so I would appreciate any input as to whats in, whats not and what people think about concaving, spine heights etc etc as this is all under consideration to get something very unique.
Thanks all.
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45mm+ edges, 75mm spine, no concaving, 30+ straight, evenly spaces grains and 2lb8 with a light pick up please ;)
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Well it seems fairly obvious where the bats are being made due to the toes.
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SH with 40mm edges and 30mm at the toe, no concaving, slight bow, mid-low sweetspot (I am not in Australia), rounded face, ideally 9-12 grains (although doesn't matter much), slightly oval handle at the bottom,around 2.12lbs fully dressed with light pick up (2.9 - 2.10)
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i think he is looking for ideas on shapes not what you would like in a bat and at what weight. we would all love massive bats that weigh nothing but that doesnt really help.
best advice is to speak to the bat maker and discuss what you want. look at your current range and work out what you feel is missing or feel would be popular - a low middled bat, a high middled bat, traditional shape etc. the bat maker can then advise you on whats best.
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Are the moderators on holiday today?
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Are the moderators on holiday today?
I've got to second this, don't expect this topic to last long..
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I'm fine with the post but not if the rule isn't applied equally to all.
Remove the name Rhino
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Why remove the Rhino? The brand is called Black Ash Cricket.
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I missed out a comma
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It may be hard to believe but the admin team do have lives, jobs outside of this forum :-)
Its now in hand
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Apologies guys. Not trying to advertise, hence the name. Happy to change the name of the post if someone could advise how?
just looking for opinions on favorite shapes, pros and cons of different profiles etc.
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Removed brand name post. Apologies all.
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Hi Rhino, due to the bouncier wickets in Aus, you may want to think about having something with a long and forgiving middle, something similar to the M&H Amplus. This is my personal favourite profile, which also has a long and forgiving playing area:
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7985.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7985.jpg.html)
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7980.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7980.jpg.html)
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7981.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7981.jpg.html)
You don't need 40mm edges, anything around 35mm is fine. (Smaller is fine too, but in terms of the aesthetics people tend to go for these days, that size is a good size) Try ask the batmaker not to concave them too much, as I personally feel that too much dampens the responsiveness. However, I don't know if your batmaker will be good enough to successfully copy these shapes... ;) ;)
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Hi Rhino, due to the bouncier wickets in Aus, you may want to think about having something with a long and forgiving middle, something similar to the M&H Amplus. This is my personal favourite profile, which also has a long and forgiving playing area:
([url]http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7985.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7985.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7980.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7980.jpg.html[/url])
([url]http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7981.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7981.jpg.html[/url])
You don't need 40mm edges, anything around 35mm is fine. (Smaller is fine too, but in terms of the aesthetics people tend to go for these days, that size is a good size) Try ask the batmaker not to concave them too much, as I personally feel that too much dampens the responsiveness. However, I don't know if your batmaker will be good enough to successfully copy these shapes... ;) ;)
That toe guard looks familiar ;)
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Thanks Chad.
I really like the Amplus profile personally. Of all the M&H it is certainly my favourite. I did a lap around quite a few clubs in my area and most people had bats with big edges and huge concaving (certainly not MH or the like brands). I asked why and honestly they just liked the look, no real reason and didnt know if it played any differently. The long middle like the amplus would probably be suitable where I am as we have quite wet summers, and only one top class pitch. Most of our pitches are 'variable' to say the least.
Mattw, the toe guard is familiar..........
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Bit slow off the mark today...took me a while to notice the toe guard, shocking choice of bat maker mate ;) . Based in Sydney, let me know if you need someone to test any potential ideas ;)
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You don't like the batmaker? They've been really helpful and so far the bats we have seem quite good...any recommendation are welcome...
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You don't like the batmaker? They've been really helpful and so far the bats we have seem quite good...any recommendation are welcome...
Pretty sure that was tongue and cheek mate... The batmaker is one of the best. Love their bats!
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You don't like the batmaker? They've been really helpful and so far the bats we have seem quite good...any recommendation are welcome...
If it's who I think it is then it's firmly in cheek pal....
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No i thought that was the case hahaha cheers mate, i was almost in shock! I'm really happy with them, but of course we'd always look at other makers to get us going with the right product.
Anyway, any tips on the profile?? I like the Amplus shape, and i think it would suit our average pitches. At the end of the day we wnat a bat that picks up well, looks great and is unique as our own.
Chad, how does the Amplus profile pick up?
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Whereabouts in Queensland are you basing yourself mate?
The Amplus shape is a beaut, definitely one you should consider...
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Based in Townsville. I basically noticed that there are no options for high quality bats in my area when I went shopping for a new bat and thought - why not give it a go myself. I thought i could go 2 ways - buy 100 bats from india or pakistan or by fewer high quality ones from an established and high quality bat maker. We'll just have to see how it goes and so far the guys who know their cricket have been really keen, others are happy to ignore us haha.
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Im also based in the Central/Northern Queensland mate. So if you need any help testing stuff or whatever let me know.
I agree with the above comment. A mid-high middle that is extended throughout the blade with little concaving would certainlt be a nice profile. I might have to buy one if they turn out like that! :D
Agree with you about the varying bounces of pitches in AUS. Sometimes when the turf ones get to wet we have to go on astro which is very bouncy. and the pitches early in the season are usually very dry without alot of bounce.
Good luck mate. Keep us posted.
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I play A grade in rockhampton mate, and also run around in emerald and play rep in CQ as well. Let me know if I can help at all! I use lavers and now there are a few kicking around in the rocky and emerald comps. Brand exposure is a wonderful thing
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Exactly, brand exposure here is a key thing I think. There's not many decent handmade Aussie companies that I can find and most people I've seen in my shot time of playing so far have used GN, Kookaburra and Puma at inflated prices compared to the UK. A lad I play with paid $700 for a Puma platinum Black, it's a decent stick but compare taht to the $450 G1 you have?
Get a couple of decent shapes, offer a good price and you shouldn't have any issues. Keep us posted mate and best of luck.
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Yea its tough getting your brand out there without spending a fortune on advertising. I might consider doing some paid stuff on the forum as it seems like a few aussies are here and i think its reasonably priced.
Yea most people use the known big manufacturers, and I agree with the pricing - far too high. My mate has the same puma you mentioned for a similar price and its cracked already (3 months old), needless to say he's not happy.
I'll be keen to get some CQ input/guys to check em out and eventually extend in to rest of QLD and Aus.
I'll have a chat to the bat maker next monday to see if we can get something like the Amplus made up as a sample and i'll keep you alll updated.
Thanks for your input guys. Much appreciated. Let us know if you think of anything else and i'll keep you all posted.
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one last thing....does label quality matter? Its pretty hard, or expensive to get good quality labelling (similar to the brands on here).
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one last thing....does label quality matter? Its pretty hard, or expensive to get good quality labelling (similar to the brands on here).
Depends, if it's going to massively mark up your price perhaps look at going for only a couple of smaller good quality simple logos rather than big ones all over the bat. Standard sticker on the front, one on the back, forget the rest.
On the flipside when most people look at a bat (by most I mean 'Normal' people, not people with deep seated wood issues like most of us on here) they'll look at the design and judge a bat on looks so I suppose the stickers are going to be an important part of your marketing strategy.
Always willing to lend a hand doing QC, playing winter cricket here (better weather than summer cricket in England) so happy to put one through it's paces on an astro deck and send back to you with some feedback.
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Yea i did a bit of price testing around here and a few people baulked at the +450 figure I was targeting (after advice from the bat maker). I think our lables are 'ok' and are quite minimal. I can get a decent quality from the UK for about AUD $12 a set not including freight. They aren't as good as something on the H4L but are still a lot better than just a standard print locally. I'l probably submit an order in the next week or so, as I can cop the 12 loss...i'm not aiming for huge margins.
I'll send you a PM Monty when I get the modified design sorted. Probably take about 3 weeks to arrive after I finishh the profile design.
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To be honest mate, if it was me I'd be inclined to get a tester from the UK, see what you think, worth paying a bit more for a better quality set. No matter how good a bat is, if it looks cheap people wont pay the money.
Check this again tomorrow when the UK boys would have been on, the amount of advice and info you get from this forum is pretty phenomenal to be fair.
Best of luck, look forward to the PM.
Liam
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Yea thanks mate. I'm going to have to i think...image is everything.
Cheers.
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No i thought that was the case hahaha cheers mate, i was almost in shock! I'm really happy with them, but of course we'd always look at other makers to get us going with the right product.
Anyway, any tips on the profile?? I like the Amplus shape, and i think it would suit our average pitches. At the end of the day we wnat a bat that picks up well, looks great and is unique as our own.
Chad, how does the Amplus profile pick up?
I've had a pick up of an Amplus before, and it picks up really quite light! I have a Bulldog, which is an Amplus shape with a slightly lowered swell, which also picks up light, but has a strange feeling to the pick up. Can't quite put my finger on it...
The L&W bats I've shown aren't Amplus profiles, but they are really nice profiles with large playing areas. They pick up really well too, well balanced.
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You may also want to consider getting an UK based batmaker to break under that 450 dollar mark. Pretty sure you could source some fine bats from the UK and make a healthy margin for under 450.
Sent from my Lenovo B6000-F using Tapatalk
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You may also want to consider getting an UK based batmaker to break under that 450 dollar mark. Pretty sure you could source some fine bats from the UK and make a healthy margin for under 450.
Sent from my Lenovo B6000-F using Tapatalk
not that easy mate..... the aussie dollar is nearly 2:1 to the pound, so once you buy from a reputable bat maker, factor in transport costs, Australian import duties and taxes, and costs associated with dressing a bat (grip, decals, scuff sheet, etc), margins made on the $450 price point get very slim....
In saying that, it would be similar to the margin he is making from his premium NZ source.....
Everyone thinks its an easy gig, but its not that black and white..... many many other factors to consider which constantly eat into overall yearly margins.
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Yea,I have discussed an option with a UK batmaker who i believe is very good, and who i think have a good price considering my MOQ. Ive discussed a potential shape and,just need to consider the costs and how to market and move them. The issue atm is that being the end of the summer season here, guys are keen to look and touch, but not buy. Obviously its not meant to happen easy and brand awareness is key. I would prefer to be closer to the 400 mark, but as you said it all adds upand you could end up making nothing... Some advertising on here might be a start maybe...
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Yea,I have discussed an option with a UK batmaker who i believe is very good, and who i think have a good price considering my MOQ. Ive discussed a potential shape and,just need to consider the costs and how to market and move them. The issue atm is that being the end of the summer season here, guys are keen to look and touch, but not buy. Obviously its not meant to happen easy and brand awareness is key. I would prefer to be closer to the 400 mark, but as you said it all adds upand you could end up making nothing... Some advertising on here might be a start maybe...
With Australian end of season coming should actually work in you favour.
Give the right time to get the right product , then start the marketing and 3-6 months js a good time for that. Then you will be all ready for next year season with your brand.
Again you should always look at a long term thing and then get all the required stuff in place for that.
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I've had a couple of bats over the last few years (20 or so... :( ) and have found that having the lower handle almost square with rounded off corners really help with twisting in the hands. It's comfortable and adds heaps of control.
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I'm not quite sure what you mean wth the lower handle being squared with round corners... Do you have a pic at all???
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I think he is refering to something like a hexagon shape like some of the Slazenger V1200 bats.
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Ah righto, I've got one of those actually, unfortunately the handle is cracked after 5 matches....
I think we will work with the oval handles...
what's the verdict on scooping in the profile? I'm not personally a fan but i see its common on a lot,of off the shelf bats.
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In my opinion, Don't scoop/concave the bats whenever you can.
You want to set yourself apart from off the shelf brands and is also a great selling point because it "widens" the sweet spot and usually increases performance.
Many people on the forum are turned off by a bat with concaving, although we have to keep in mind we are certainly the minority :D
Just my pinch of salt
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majority of people don't like scooping. Apparently it helps with the pickup.
I say go for medium size edges (33/34 mm) with no/minimal concaving, oval handle and a bow as well (to improve pickup)
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Yea im trying to get as little concaving in the main playing area as possible, while still getting the spine right through to the toe...
edge size is not an issue, but ill aim for around the 35 - 40 mark if possible. I'm trying to get lighter bats, so edge size is going to be sacrificed rather than scooping/concaving.
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Yea im trying to get as little concaving in the main playing area as possible, while still getting the spine right through to the toe...
edge size is not an issue, but ill aim for around the 35 - 40 mark if possible. I'm trying to get lighter bats, so edge size is going to be sacrificed rather than scooping/concaving.
Good Plan mate, I really like the sound of that!
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If I'm honest, and it pains me to say this, big edges do kind of sell bats. Stickers also sell bats. Have a work on the stickers, and in terms of concaving, try keep it to a minimum, but remember, people are after light bats as well. You cannot possibly offer 2.8 bats with 40mm edges and minimal concaving all the time, just isn't possible. You could ask the batmaker to concave a little more lower down the bat, so it helps aid in pick up. Concaving itself only really keeps weight down, concaving it differently throughout the bat is key. If done right, then concaving isn't a bad thing, I just prefer to use medium weights (2.10-2.12) and don't really look for 40mm edges, so my bats are generally not concaved much, if at all.
Hope this helps, and good luck on the brand! You've already nailed it on the batmaker, just get some better stickers printed, work on a bit of marketing and you'll do well! Look how far Hammer and Affinity cricket have come over the past couple of years. (Or year in Affinity's case) Good stickers and marketing is what you could work on, the quality is already there! :)
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Try and get decent shoulders on the bats though as it's a put off for me seeing thin shoulders as it's a pretty vulnerable part of a bat, also thick shoulders will aid the pick up
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Thanks guys. I think the big edges thing might get a people a little more interested when they only get a chance to see the bats online or in pics. When someone gets the chance to pick the bat up, they know whether they like it or not straight away and probably don't notice the edges as much. It's also a great 'talking' point when showing off the bat. In regards to the stickers, I couldn't even get someone to pick a bat up without the labels. Now with labels, the bats 'suddenly' feel and look good and guys are keen to have look and hit. The quality of the stickers is definitely something to work on though. The ones we are using now do the job, but don't really convey quality...
So far the idea im working with is to have a low amount of concaving through a high-ish middle with a small amount of concaving at the toe and a touch at the shoulders. With the concaving, the spine should be able to get right through to the toe and up into the shoulder. This should hopefully give a larger playing area and extend the middle down the bat a bit...It will also mean I have not copied an existing profile (although I'd love an amplus look-alike) so it should be unique to us.
Our current bats have a fairl thin toe and shoulder. The initial reaction is they like the feel of the bat, and the balance is nice, but a couple of comments have been made about the lack of 'meat'in the shoulders, and after using it, one guy said he would have like a bit more behind the toe/lower part of the bat. Obviously no complaints about the middle :) With the spine extending through into the toe, I'm thinking this will improve the feel of the bat when a ball doesn't quite bounce as high as you think.
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after using it, one guy said he would have like a bit more behind the toe/lower part of the bat. Obviously no complaints about the middle :) With the spine extending through into the toe, I'm thinking this will improve the feel of the bat when a ball doesn't quite bounce as high as you think.
+1 for thick edges, no concaving and thick toe