Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: rhino25 on March 23, 2014, 11:51:36 PM
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Basically, can grade 1 willow have marks on the bat?? I've had bats called grade 1 with not a mark, and,some with? Whats the general rule?
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Depends on the extent really, if you post pictures it would be easier to judge :D
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In theory, you should follow Wright's grading - http://www.cricketbatwillow.com/blades-grading (http://www.cricketbatwillow.com/blades-grading) - as they are the largest willow supplier in the market.
However you should keep an eye on this as it can change from season to season. I remember last season, Grade 1 had no redwood/heartwood but this season they've made an allowance for it...
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Ill get some up when in back on my PC. But yea some,have marks and minor blemishes. Nothing too bad, but just thought its worth asking as a lot,of comments on here relate to the nice look of the willow, grain numbers etc etc.
I've definitely got heartwood, which i don't personally mind as well..
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"A bat can weigh 2lb 14oz but if made a certain way with the weight distributed differently it could feel like a 2 lb 7 oz bat, it is basically down to the skill of the batmaker. I would argue that if asked to guess the weight of a bat to the nearest ounce no player could get it right more than once in ten guesses at the very best."
From the Wright's website.
Just throwing it out there, I'm sure that most in these forums could guess more than 1/10, I'd like to think I'd get at least half right! ;)
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Whilst Wrights offer a definition, it is purely subjective and has no bearing on what actually 'is' a G1.
Because there is no certified standard anything can be G1.
It's a philosophical question more than anything.
What do you want it to be?
Does it matter?
Should 'true' G1 be more of a measure of performance?
As there is no 'standard' one can only guess.
G1 is used as a marketing tool more than anything. A way to fool us into paying more.
" best looking blade money can buy, though it will not necessarily play the best. "
So why pay more for G1?
" There may be some red wood evident on the edge of the bat (up to 1.75 inches). The grain on the face will be straight and there will be a minimum of 6 grains visible. There may be the odd small knot or speck in the edge or back but the playing area should be clean."
Say's who?
G1 SHOULD look like a batting average >50.
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Grade 1 bats can often have blemishes and heartwood, although there is no standard, as others have said. Grade 1+ bats tend to have fewer blemishes and more grains, but interestingly, more heartwood than a regular grade 1 bat. I can see what Matt says about it being a marketing tool, but the grading system is passed down from the willow merchants, so from the very top of the food chain, there is a price differential between the grades, so it's not just the end user who is "fooled into paying more"...
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Grade 1 bats can often have blemishes and heartwood, although there is no standard, as others have said. Grade 1+ bats tend to have fewer blemishes and more grains, but interestingly, more heartwood than a regular grade 1 bat. I can see what Matt says about it being a marketing tool, but the grading system is passed down from the willow merchants, so from the very top of the food chain, there is a price differential between the grades, so it's not just the end user who is "fooled into paying more"...
Because the pricing model starts at the top, it's hard, if not impossible for the likes of IJC to be fair. Their hands are tied.
What is needed is a radical change to the pricing structure so we pay for runs and not pretty pictures.
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Because the pricing model starts at the top, it's hard, if not impossible for the likes of IJC to be fair. Their hands are tied.
What is needed is a radical change to the pricing structure so we pay for runs and not pretty pictures.
If you want to pay for runs. Then id suggest you invest your cash in coaching. Not a bat.
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A grade 1 bat should look like the bats that most companies sell as g1+
The price between a g1 cleft and a g2 cleft doesn't not explain the price differential on the rrp but the fact that bat makers are tied into buying a load of clefts in a certain split. Say only 25% of which are grade 1, 50% grade 2 and 25% grade 3
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If you want to pay for runs. Then id suggest you invest your cash in coaching. Not a bat.
Smilley, you're completely wrong. We all know that the most expensive, cleverly pressed and shaped bat is how you score loads of runs and it has nothing to do with the user. I'm a lower order batsman and if I had a £1000 bat made from G1+++++ Willow I would regularly score 3,000 runs per season.... ;)
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For me based only on looks only the cleft should be the best 1 percent of the willow, it should also be white with ruler straight close even grains and no blemishes.But having said that I have brought bats sold to me as G1 that have blemishes but graded as G1 due to the excellent rebound.
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If you want to pay for runs. Then id suggest you invest your cash in coaching. Not a bat.
You are correct.
Buy a cheaper bat, say a H4L Devil, Aldred Butterfly, and then spend the rest on coaching/claret.
:D
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Grade 1 should be the best 1 percent of willow? That means there would be very few G1 bats around, and they would be priced at £700+
As mentioned before, there is no industry standard for grading. Some bat makers buy their willow from a merchant and the merchant will have graded it as they see it. Some bat makers then choose to grade it again themselves. Some bat makers source the tree/wood themselves and so have no merchant grading it for them. They can then grade it as they see fit, under their own criteria.
It essentially comes down to whoever is making the bat (or in the case of some brands who buy bats in and sticker them up, whoever is selling the bat) to decide what grade they want to sell it as.
What makes me chuckle is the mainly Pakistani brands who sell bats with a 'certified/guaranteed grade 1' certificate accompanying the bat. Who is doing the certifying?! The is no regulatory body out there deciding what is grade 1 and what isn't. The bat maker or the willow merchant have knocked together a piece of paper that should actually say 'in our opinion this piece of wood is grade 1'
It's a grey area and even if there was an industry standard, it would only apply to how a piece of willow looks. Grading on performance is impossible. The reality is most bats offer pretty good performance when pressed correctly, regardless of their looks. Buying a 'performance' grade bat for any sort of serious money is a good way to give a bat company a bit of extra cash for selling you a grade 3. There are plenty of less visually appealing bat options out there that can be acquired pretty cheaply, butterfly for example.
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Ok, my PC is playing games and this is the third attempt at a reply. I can't get the pics to upload, so i'll offer a description.
I have a bat with 10 grains, not 100% straight but pretty good. There is a minor blemish on the face and about 10mm of heartwood on the RH outside edge. The bat pings very well.
Going by the comments it'll have to score a lot of runs to be a G1 ;)
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Ok, my PC is playing games and this is the third attempt at a reply. I can't get the pics to upload, so i'll offer a description.
I have a bat with 10 grains, not 100% straight but pretty good. There is a minor blemish on the face and about 10mm of heartwood on the RH outside edge. The bat pings very well.
Going by the comments it'll have to score a lot of runs to be a G1 ;)
custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=7712.0
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On a serious note, we've had this debate endless times.
Grading can only ever be purely cosmetic, as even the user makes a difference as to how the bat performs. When the Stig gets hold of my Butterfly bat, I expect to see it fly in a way that it will never do for me.
Having said that, the SG VS319 that I had, which had ruler straight grains, no blemishes and looked beautiful was, without doubt, a complete dog. No-one who used it liked it. It felt dead. It absolutely qualified as Grade 1 for looks.
As others have said, grading is not and never will be a good way of determining how good a bat is, just how beautiful it is supposed to look, and even that is in the eye of the beholder...!
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I think the grading should purely be done on cosmetics. It's almost impossible to say how well a bat will perform when it is properly played in, and let's face it, the majority of us (and I include myself) are not noted for patience in this area. Similarly, if it were possible to grade purely on performance I can't see much of a market for low performing bats. Possibly the best over all advice in respect of bats has come as a by product of butterfly stained bats. In that they more than likely will take longer to fully open up and perform. Perhaps not a great marketing tool in these 'want it now' times, but balanced by this type of bat potentially having greater durability?
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Righto take 2 for a photo:
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a546/mitch_wyper/WP_20140324_11_16_28_Pro_crop_zps91493705.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/mitch_wyper/media/WP_20140324_11_16_28_Pro_crop_zps91493705.jpg.html)
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No picture, but imagine Steffi Graf's legs in her pomp.
That's what G1 should look like.
;)
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Is this now harder to define because of the gradings being expanded?
It used to be that G1 was for the top bats. but now you have manufacturers charging £100 difference for G1 clefts across their range! (e.g. Newbery Kudos to Newbery Krakatoa) both are Grade 1 so why the difference?
Plus the grade system now seems to be:
Pro
Limited Edition
G1+ (optional extra +'s)
G1
G2
G3
Performance Cleft
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take 3...
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a546/mitch_wyper/WP_20140324_11_16_28_Pro_crop_zps91493705.jpg) (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/mitch_wyper/media/WP_20140324_11_16_28_Pro_crop_zps91493705.jpg.html)
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Take 2 worked for me.
It's on the edge in my opinion. I've seen that graded as 2 many times. But I have and worse sent to me as grade 1!
One custom bat makers grade 1 is apparently what ever they have left. As when I questioned said stick, there reply was "it's the only cleft I have left sorry". Well maybe you shouldnt have took my money then.
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Has to be grade 2 because the blemish is in the playing area
It doesn't mean the bat is going to perform any worse though, a lot of people struggle with that concept.
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So next thing, does the batmaker or their reputation prove the grading? Or just the price payable for said grade?
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Until there is an industry standard, anything could be classed as 'Grade 1' in theory - it's all personal preference.
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So next thing, does the batmaker or their reputation prove the grading? Or just the price payable for said grade?
the batmaker will set the price as to what is commercially viable for him.
Like a leading Lawyer - a leading batmaker will be able to charge more for their services as they will be in demand.
but that isn't to say a junior barrister wont be able to get you off the charge just as easily at a more reasonable cost...
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I would assume that G1 should have 8+ straight and evenly spaced grains and no blemishes on the face. Atleast this is what I would expect if I am buying something that is listed as G1. Some pics from my collection...
GM Luna DXM Original LE
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/27fe1a57-3be5-4709-9668-cdc2c1b14505_zps8e0bdf66.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/27fe1a57-3be5-4709-9668-cdc2c1b14505_zps8e0bdf66.jpg.html)
BAS 20/20 Bow LE
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/20140321_160543_zps840c251d.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/20140321_160543_zps840c251d.jpg.html)
Slazenger HyperBlade Jacques Kallis Signature LE
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/DSC_0040_zps362882a2.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/DSC_0040_zps362882a2.jpg.html)
B&S LE
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/DSC_0073_zps060ae0fd.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/DSC_0073_zps060ae0fd.jpg.html)
SS Ton Gladiator
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/DSC_0063_zps09647b80.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/DSC_0063_zps09647b80.jpg.html)
Kookaburra Recoil 900
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/kalyan111/DSC_0005_zpsd478e713.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/kalyan111/media/DSC_0005_zpsd478e713.jpg.html)
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nice selection of willow Kal. Like the look of the B&S. I think being LE classed bats, they should be like the pics you put up for sure.
I guess i want the willow to look clean AND perform well. the pic i put up certainly performs well, and i'm happy to pay for it after using it, but you can't 'try before you buy' a bat so i guess looks it is...
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I think the 5 Crown caerulex that Vitas posted is about as perfect a demonstration of grade 1 willow as you will find....
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Agree Tim
This I abit extreme but this is grade one crown willow and if I'm honest it not the best looking crown willow
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(http://imageshack.us/a/img542/3804/photoggs.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img5/2285/photowez.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/598/photojz.jpg)
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according to me, it should look like this...
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=28166.msg442251#msg442251 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=28166.msg442251#msg442251)
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my personal view is that the look of a grade 1 is irrelevant if it goes like a train! I would rather a cleft rated on performance rather than look as you can get bats that look perfect but are brown bread when it comes to performance
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my personal view is that the look of a grade 1 is irrelevant if it goes like a train! I would rather a cleft rated on performance rather than look as you can get bats that look perfect but are brown bread when it comes to performance
but how do you measure 'performance' of a bat? tapping a ball up, mallet are really exact science.. At some point it's just a leap of faith and a bit of luck.
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my personal view is that the look of a grade 1 is irrelevant if it goes like a train! I would rather a cleft rated on performance rather than look as you can get bats that look perfect but are brown bread when it comes to performance
I like it graded on looks.
Means on here we know when the forum sponsors have got fresh hand picked wood from a supplier.
Then you can go and get a bat which is top performance, for grade 3 prices!