Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: justnotcricket86 on April 01, 2014, 07:59:05 AM
-
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/31/michael-carberry-england-ashes (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/31/michael-carberry-england-ashes)
Personally, I applaud this from Carbs. I may be biased as he's probably my favourite English cricketer about and I'm a Hants fan, but this is class in my opinion. Also slightly worrying that ECB and the management treat 'fringe' players like this. Despite being the 2nd top scorer in the Ashes, behind KP (of course) - these guys still get treated like this. Stinks if you ask me.
Views and opinions, chaps?
-
His England career is over now one would think. Shame really
-
A fringe player with an ODI average of 21 wonders why he's not in the team?
-
I used the term fringe, because I suppose that's what he is. Same with Taylor, JB, Finn etc. All these chaps coming and going. I think it's more to do with how he has been treated than actually kicking up a fuss about not playing. Let's face it, domestically there aren't too many better with the bat in limited overs cricket. I think he deserves a shout personally.
-
ECB and MCC = Old Boys Clubs.
I can hardly talk as I am a member of the MCC but I am not a big fan of the 'establishment' ethos which is lamented by numerous members - who see it as a continuation of their private school/secret society/secret handshake childhood.
I completely understand where Carberry is coming from - seen it, heard of it etc. Shame that attitude has been allowed to infect the international scene again after a number of years where it was suppressed for an emphasis on performance.
-
A fringe player with an ODI average of 21 wonders why he's not in the team?
There is two ways to look at this. He is going on about being given a 'shorter rope than others'. Yes, he was one of the highest scorers in the test series, which should if all is right and fair mean he would be second on the team sheet for the next series (its not right and fair, just look at KP.) However, how often do players come into the test side as a specialist top order batsman and stay in the team for any long period of time without making a ton? My bet is it's not many. Carberry's previous test experience came against Bangladesh and whilst he only had one game, he has at least had two cracks of the whip.
His interview, suggesting he has had a shorter length of rope and that he 'might be being controversial' has overtures to inherent racism within the ECB. Now the ECB are a great many things, but he needs to tread very carefully in my opinion because the whole 'is it because I'm black?' thing that gets banded about whenever something like this happens (such as the lack of black managers in the Football League) does far more damage than him not being selected again.
I would suggest that at 33 and having a highest score in 17 international innings of 63 means that the ECB are well within their rights to drop him and look to the future (Root, Robson) whether he is white, black, green or consisted entirely of raspberry jelly.
-
I'll admit, the shorter rope comment did make me think that as well. Hope it wasn't meant that way.
If anything, I perhaps think that he's more suited to T20 and ODI than test cricket
-
Think it was pretty shocking that the ECB wouldn't allow his mum to come and watch yet paid for every other girlfriend and wife in the squad...
-
Think it was pretty shocking that the ECB wouldn't allow his mum to come and watch yet paid for every other girlfriend and wife in the squad...
That it was. I did say the ECB were a great many things. Bellends being one of them.
-
The ECB have done well to just sit back and wait for the KP stuff and Ashes to blow over.. I notice very few people are actually on the ECB's backs anymore. Win win for them.
THey'll all keep their well paid jobs and all is well.
I just can't believe 'we' as a cricket society are letting them off the hook so easily over their lack of forward planning, lack of ability to select the right coach, coaching staff, analysts and above all, put out the best players England have. Their treatment of Carbs just shows that they care little about cricket or the players. It's a closed group, face has to fit and that nothing will chance as they keep promoting 'one of the boys' in the ECB and within the England set up.
-
The ECB have done well to just sit back and wait for the KP stuff and Ashes to blow over.. I notice very few people are actually on the ECB's backs anymore. Win win for them.
THey'll all keep their well paid jobs and all is well.
I just can't believe 'we' as a cricket society are letting them off the hook so easily over their lack of forward planning, lack of ability to select the right coach, coaching staff, analysts and above all, put out the best players England have. Their treatment of Carbs just shows that they care little about cricket or the players. It's a closed group, face has to fit and that nothing will chance as they keep promoting 'one of the boys' in the ECB and within the England set up.
Now I am not going to say the ECB are right, but there have been a lot of things go wrong this winter. perhaps that was their own fault or maybe not. Now there is a new guy at the top, there may be changes ahead.
"lack of ability to select the right coach" - It is all well and good saying that, but how do you know who did or didn't apply? Flower got the test team to number 1. Giles is only the stand-in until it is confirmed. There are a lot of very good coaches who have no interest in this role, so it is not as cut and dried as "get Kirsten or whoever". This is similar for the coaching staff. Once the head coach is in place and then we'll see whether there are changes here too.
"put out the best players England have" - I presume KP is the argument here. Can you categorically state that the T20 team would have won with him in it? Who would he have replaced? Lumb? Furthermore, if he is such a big ego and disrupting the changing room, perhaps he is not worth it. What happens if Cook said "it is him or me that goes"? Well, I'd rather have Cook available for the next 8 years than KP for 2. At the end of the day, KP is only going to get worse now, bad knee, won't play all games. Surely with the opposition here this summer (allegedly "easier" opposition) it is the perfect time to blood someone new. Good news is that Trott is on the mend. Cook, Trott, Bell and Prior provide a lot of experience.
"Their treatment of Carbs just shows that they care little about cricket or the players" - I quickly read it and I think Carbs may be taking senntences out of context and until there is both sides of the story, it is to be taken with a pinch of salt. Maybe he was right, maybe not, but it is difficult to back someone who says something now rather than at the time.
This is how I feel and is not the be-all and end-all, so don't have a go at me. It is just my opinion of what has been raised.
Whatever happens, I think we need to fully rebuild the team and refresh some (maybe not all) of the coaching staff.
-
Now I am not going to say the ECB are right, but there have been a lot of things go wrong this winter. perhaps that was their own fault or maybe not. Now there is a new guy at the top, there may be changes ahead.
"lack of ability to select the right coach" - It is all well and good saying that, but how do you know who did or didn't apply? Flower got the test team to number 1. Giles is only the stand-in until it is confirmed. There are a lot of very good coaches who have no interest in this role, so it is not as cut and dried as "get Kirsten or whoever". This is similar for the coaching staff. Once the head coach is in place and then we'll see whether there are changes here too.
"put out the best players England have" - I presume KP is the argument here. Can you categorically state that the T20 team would have won with him in it? Who would he have replaced? Lumb? Furthermore, if he is such a big ego and disrupting the changing room, perhaps he is not worth it. What happens if Cook said "it is him or me that goes"? Well, I'd rather have Cook available for the next 8 years than KP for 2. At the end of the day, KP is only going to get worse now, bad knee, won't play all games. Surely with the opposition here this summer (allegedly "easier" opposition) it is the perfect time to blood someone new. Good news is that Trott is on the mend. Cook, Trott, Bell and Prior provide a lot of experience.
"Their treatment of Carbs just shows that they care little about cricket or the players" - I quickly read it and I think Carbs may be taking senntences out of context and until there is both sides of the story, it is to be taken with a pinch of salt. Maybe he was right, maybe not, but it is difficult to back someone who says something now rather than at the time.
This is how I feel and is not the be-all and end-all, so don't have a go at me. It is just my opinion of what has been raised.
Whatever happens, I think we need to fully rebuild the team and refresh some (maybe not all) of the coaching staff.
all valid stuff bud.
It's not all about KP tbh. As you say, his knee is knackered etc. I use KP purely because he's the scapegoat currently but it's the whole set up. I mean, Cook should be in the side as he's the best opener we have currently BUT he's a shocking captain. Broad is a walking ego, shocking capt as well and his batting has become laughable.. yet both are kept on etc. Bairstow has been shown to not be good enough, yet is persisted with. Buttler has proven in this T20 his keeping isn't good enough for tests so needs to be told to go play county cricket etc to improve.
I just mean more that everything they do seems to be poor decision making, protecting their own back sides and generally doing nothing to stop the decline in adult amateur cricket. which, surely is the lifeblood of the game.
KP wise, honestly couldn't care less about him. I think we'd have been a better batting side with him though.
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26830830 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26830830)
Harmison hits back in support of Giles.
-
Kp kp. Oh kp.
On kp I'm the t20 tournament. Merely from a batting point of view. Would he have made a difference on the first 3 games. I honestly don't think so, we posted 3 decent scores, and unsure who's runs pietersen would have replaced.
But,
The loss to Netherlands, the game situation, and other people's moods etc have never bothered kp, if it's his day it's his day. And I do believe that had he played that game, we would have either won, or lose with him on 50 odd not out.
On a different point of view. Of he was the t20 captain, I believe we would have qualified for the semis, not saying he's a great leader(although Kirsten who turned the eng job down has made him Delhi captain??? ) but I believe he is a far better leader, decision maker, and t20 specialist than broad ever would have been.
Oops, sorry gone of topic. Carberry. Yeah, with the state of England's decision making at mo, and if his convo with GILES is accurate, I can't help but think his England days are over. Which I think isn't a great thing. Test maybe a push, but he'd be in my odi and t20 side currently.
-
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26830830[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26830830[/url])
Harmison hits back in support of Giles.
I honestly thought that was an April fools this morning.....,
-
I honestly thought that was an April fools this morning.....,
me too
-
You have to ask, what the hell are they thinking continuing to pick Dernbach too. That's not me being angry, I've gone beyond that, but my mates and I are totally at a loss as to how they can justify picking him. His stats alone make him the worst bowler to ever have played in a coloured shirt, economically speaking. What goes through your mind when you pick him? Someone please answer that question. Beggars belief.
-
You have to ask, what the hell are they thinking continuing to pick Dernbach too. That's not me being angry, I've gone beyond that, but my mates and I are totally at a loss as to how they can justify picking him. His stats alone make him the worst bowler to ever have played in a coloured shirt, economically speaking. What goes through your mind when you pick him? Someone please answer that question. Beggars belief.
Good team ethic
puts the effort in
yes man
doesn't stand his corner
-
You have to ask, what the hell are they thinking continuing to pick Dernbach too. That's not me being angry, I've gone beyond that, but my mates and I are totally at a loss as to how they can justify picking him. His stats alone make him the worst bowler to ever have played in a coloured shirt, economically speaking. What goes through your mind when you pick him? Someone please answer that question. Beggars belief.
Did anyone here pontings comments regarding dernbach? He said something along the lines off "having played with him, and trained with him, he is IMO the best t20 bowler there is, and I'd pick him every time"
I'm not sure if the people within cricket are that bewitched by variety that they'll just pick regardless of stats.
-
10 points to you then!
Is it weird that I find it hard to believe he would be picked on being Broad's bezzie pal than actually being someone who can play the sport?
Ho hum...
-
IN DEFENCE OF DERNBACH
The OBO inbox has not been a particularly happy place for much of the winter, but amid the usual moans and groans, puns, occasional pleas for rain and the always helpful pointers on the inaccuracy of the score, the slowness of the updates and the correct use of the English language, post-Ashes there has been one familiar theme. It pops up after almost every England ODI or T20 team announcement and it echoes on throughout almost every England ODI or T20 game: "Jade Dernbach: why?"
It is, if we avoid the philosophical connotations ("A tree: why?"), a fairly straightforward question. What is it that Surrey's short-form specialist brings to the England team? Why does Dernbach (up until Monday's defeat to the Netherlands at least) pick up such a regular spot in the XI? The case for the prosecution lies in the stats. A record of 31 wickets at an average of 42.19 and an economy rate of 6.35 saw him lose his place in the ODI team in the summer, but it is in T20 that Dernbach is expected to excel. Again the stats are pretty damning: 34 matches, 39 wickets, an (irrelevant?) average of 26.15 and, again, that economy rate: 8.71. Of those to send down 300 balls or more in T20 international cricket, Dernbach is the most expensive. Over the winter he completed his four overs five times in T20 internationals, going for 50, 49, 36, 38 and 42 on those occasions.
With numbers like those, it's no wonder Dernbach comes into the crosshairs of England fans. And the England selectors opted for a Dernbach-less double-spin attack against the Netherlands on Monday (which went well). So the question remains: "Jade Dernbach: why?" In search for an answer, the Spin invited the Surrey director of cricket and former England captain Alec Stewart to put forward the case for the defence.
"The reason selectors will pick anyone is because they believe they are the best to do their relevant jobs for England," he says. "And Jade has been seen over a period of time now as one of the very best white-ball bowlers in Twenty20 cricket both up front and, especially, at the back end of the innings. He bowls those tough overs, up front in the powerplay and then generally the 18th and 20th overs – the toughest times. So the selectors and the captain have seen him do that [for Surrey] and that's why he's earned the right to play for England.
"But if he's bowling these tough overs he is going to be exposed at times, as we saw against South Africa with AB de Villiers – I don't care who was bowling the way AB was playing, with that hand-eye coordination and improvisation, he would've taken anyone to the cleaners.
"Jade will be the first to admit that he hasn't executed all his plans perfectly but there are other bowlers in that team who never bowl the tough overs. Stuart Broad, the captain, is one of England's premier bowlers in Test match cricket, experienced in 50-over cricket and 20-over cricket, but he obviously backs Dernbach ahead of himself to bowl these tough overs.
"That's an endorsement of Jade Dernbach's skills. And Jade is highly skilled. We got to the final of the Twenty20 competition last year on the back of Dernbach and Azhar Mahmood bowling the first four overs of the innings and the last four overs of the innings. The problem is that when you don't quite execute the plans it can go horribly wrong. And when it's the same bloke that is bowling these overs, when it goes wrong he is highlighted.
So why does Dernbach take so much of the fans' flak? "First of all, people just look at the stats without looking at the bigger picture. Because he is the man bowling the tough overs, when it goes wrong he is going to be highlighted. You also throw in the tattoos, the ear-ring – that won't endear him to everyone. He's very much an in-your-face cricketer which is a strength. So I can understand why some people look to the negative side of his game or his personality when they don't know him. He's always been very good for us, he's a tremendous competitor.
"You never know what direction the selectors are going to go in, but what I will say is [if you don't pick Dernbach] you've got to find a replacement. Who is going to be the man to bowl at those stages of the match? Who is going to develop their skills to bowl those overs if they do take Jade out of the firing line? He will be the first to put his hand up and say: 'I want more of it.' He's never ducked a battle in his life."
Of course, you would expect Stewart to back his Surrey charge, but he still makes a valid point. The danger for Dernbach is that he has become a scapegoat for England's T20 problems (of the nine men to have sent down 300 balls for England in T20, Dernbach's economy rate is indeed the worst, but barely one run an over more expensive than, say, Broad and Jimmy Anderson). That England opted not to take Michael Vaughan's perfectly sensible advice to experiment with Dernbach's bowling position against the Netherlands and instead took him out of the firing line completely probably doesn't bode particularly well for the 28-year-old. Not that the two-spinners approach made much difference against the Dutch.
The jury's out. We won't get the verdict until Sri Lanka at The Oval in May, but if an England T20 team enjoy no more success without their inked-up death bowler at what point does the question become: "Jade Dernbach: why not?"
-
Dernbach is not a bad bowler, just not found the right mentality for T20i yet.
Personally, I believe he has too many variations and batsmen are playing him from his hand, whereas the better bowlers have a slight variation and the odd other one. I'd put Bresnan in this category too.
If you look at the most expensive T20 bowlers, there are some talented players there. Rampaul, Southee and Oram to note. So it's not talent that is lacking, just a little spark of consistency with a strong regular ball that rarely gets put to the boundary.
Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
-
A fringe player with an ODI average of 21 wonders why he's not in the team?
His point was that having been there as part of the squad, and having had a decent 2013 domestic limited overs season it was reasonable for him to have been given a go. His frustration was that he wasn't given a answer as to why he wasn't playing considering the team were having a shocker.
An average of 21 in 5 games is a very small sample size to reference.