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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: golders on June 16, 2014, 12:24:13 PM

Title: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: golders on June 16, 2014, 12:24:13 PM






Hi Guys,


Don't get me wrong, I like Alastair Cook (Cooky.)

Top player with a great record, but struggling recently both with results and bat. I don't think it will happen any time soon, as the ECB bigwigs lap him up, but i'd like someone with a bit more personality, someone creative, someone with fire in his belly etc. (i'm not suggesting Ian Belly Bell here!) Cooky is a classic case of the head boy whose face fits perfectly. Yaaaawn!

I know he looks angelic, but because of his Yorkshire roots, i'd go for Joe Root.
Thoughts?


Feel free guys to add a poll to this or separately ass you so wish.

Happy speculating!

Golders




Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Manormanic on June 16, 2014, 12:24:50 PM
KP.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: golders on June 16, 2014, 12:27:34 PM
Ha! He was in a corporate box yesterday apparantly, can't stay away the lad
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Manormanic on June 16, 2014, 12:33:50 PM
Would be the best bet for the job, him or Andrew Gale.

Anything but a chain of yes men!
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: pie-man on June 16, 2014, 12:38:41 PM
I think in the past England have flirted with more charismatic captains, Flintoff and Pietersen and probably feel they've had their fingers burnt.  I think they feel the steady-eddy approach is a safe route.  I imagine the ECB hope Cook will be an Athers type although I cant say his captaincy is anywhere near (IMO).

Besides, they've made their bed as far as committing to Cook so we wont see a change for a long while yet.

On a slightly separate note, anyone else thinks that having separate short and long form captains is bad for cohesion and "integration"?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Buzz on June 16, 2014, 01:18:41 PM
Flintoff is hardly a charismatic captain - a charismatic person/player yes, but that is different.

I think the challenge here is that we actually want a more than competent captain who is able to feel the pulse of a cricket match via talent and experience of the game.

My view is that Ali doesn't have that natural touch. Strauss had it but wasn't a natural in the way that Michael Vaughan and Nasser Hussain had.

I don't think it will come with experience. I think you either have it or you don't
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Neon Cricket on June 16, 2014, 01:26:39 PM
I'd have Root personally, could be a good option for longevity - he's got a good 10/12 years in him yet depending on form
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: TangoWhiskey on June 16, 2014, 01:34:09 PM
I think Root is next inline. Cook will get at least another 3/4 years and then Root will take over, there was a championship game at Yorkshire where Gale was suspiciously dropped and Root replaced him as skipper whilst he was free from England duty then the following week it was back to normal service as Root went back to the England squad.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Buzz on June 16, 2014, 01:44:06 PM
I think Bell is next in line and is likely to be captain for the ashes - especially if (when) we lose to India and (if this test continues as it may) we lose to Sri Lanka. 
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Kippa2209 on June 16, 2014, 02:22:51 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Bell ends up doing a short stint as captain if Cook's form doesn't improve over the summer.

Is hope Root gets there eventually although would broad not be in line before him? (Although I'm not a big fan of fast bowlers as captains)
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Manormanic on June 16, 2014, 03:29:09 PM
they won't go to Broad.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: tushar sehgal on June 16, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
Not seen a lot of him but from what I have seen/read I would like to see Stokes leading England sometime soon...Lots of fire, anger and hunger to want to do more...
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Neon Cricket on June 16, 2014, 04:06:00 PM
Attitude isn't there though from what I gather - doesn't seem professional enough to be a captain, he's more likely the next 'Pietersen' IMO
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: tushar sehgal on June 16, 2014, 04:10:55 PM
Attitude isn't there though from what I gather - doesn't seem professional enough to be a captain, he's more likely the next 'Pietersen' IMO

Sometimes people mature with time and responsibility and other times they don't...hope he does but doesn't lose who he is in all this management BS...

Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Sam on June 16, 2014, 04:41:20 PM
I think we'll be stuck with Cook for at least another few more years minimum unless they finally decide to drop him. If they do I can see Bell being the candidate, however if he doesn't it will most likely be one of the younger players. Root possibly but he doesn't quite come across as natural to me, sure he'd be able to prove me wrong, Ballance seems a bit of a quiet boundary sweeper to me, I guess Stokes is a possibility if they decide they want someone with a bit more character, or perhaps even someone from outside the team?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: fasteddie on June 16, 2014, 05:42:32 PM
The King is dead, long live the King.

This is a rather premature thread. It will take some finding when the moment arrives.

The next Capt will be a woman. Mark my words. Why not.

Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 16, 2014, 05:48:04 PM
Next England captain, Roooooooot!
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: joeljonno on June 16, 2014, 07:21:26 PM

The next Capt will be a woman. Mark my words. Why not.

Broad?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: hammersjr on June 16, 2014, 07:27:48 PM
Stokes or Root for longevity I'd say.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Johnny on June 16, 2014, 07:34:33 PM
I saw a suggestion today that the next captain will be Eoin Morgan.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 16, 2014, 08:44:40 PM
I saw a suggestion today that the next captain will be Eoin Morgan.
He's need to be good enough for a place in the side 1st!
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Johnny on June 17, 2014, 07:55:52 AM
He's need to be good enough for a place in the side 1st!

The argument was that his role as a captain would help justify his place in the team
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: petehosk on June 17, 2014, 08:10:28 AM
Cook would be fine if he worked on his captain skills! All the resource he has and people he can get advice from, and yet he still doesn't seem to be improving as a captain! If there is no improvement soon, then surely they will have to offer it to someone else?
It would have to be someone who has cemented his place in the team!
I can only think of Bell, Anderson and possibly Broad as options? Even Prior is not a definite to keep his place!
Root may have gone some way to cementing his place, but both Root and Bell don't seem the type!
Anderson doesn't seem interested in the role. Broad would probably look the role and has experience so at the moment, I can only see Broad or Cook as options - neither of which seem ideally suited! 
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Whispering Death on June 17, 2014, 08:31:26 AM
You could argue that Cook should relinquish the captain's armband but remain in the team as an opener - look at his record overall, form is temporary and all that!

There have been very few captains around the world who have been able to captain and consistently perform - the biggest standout for me as Dhoni - is there anything that man cannot do!?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: pie-man on June 17, 2014, 08:32:08 AM
I cant immediately see his replacement.  I too am not keen on a bowler captaining a test team, so for me, Broad is out.  I think Root may well be groomed for the role over time but this will need time.

It may well be some years yet and come from the junior ranks.  Will Rhodes who captained the u19 is highly regarded.  The junior set-up seems good and the EPP Program (may have 2 "programs" there...) seems to seek out the leaders of the group.  Of course Flower's involvement may mean just more yes-men...

This is just my opinion - I have no real understanding of the set up.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: RichW on June 17, 2014, 08:47:58 AM
He's need to be good enough for a place in the side 1st!

I agree with this I think England are looking for an opportunity to get him in just because he's a good captain.

Cook really needs to let the captaincy go and allow him to concentrate on being our best player now that we have got rid of KP for reasons unknown to anyone sensible.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: 400notout on June 17, 2014, 08:53:29 AM
He's need to be good enough for a place in the side 1st!

Current captain averaging 25 in the last year... probably doesn't have to do much more than that.

Personally would like to see him back in, as Capt would be great too, but unlikely with that middle order starting to score runs now.

Maybe we are heading back towards a tactical captain who is more there for his captaincy than anything else, I for one wouldn't have a problem with that.

Most tactically astute captain in county cricket at the moment?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Manormanic on June 17, 2014, 09:19:21 AM
Most tactically astute captain in county cricket at the moment?

Is Andrew Gale. 
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Stuey on June 17, 2014, 09:21:13 AM
Cook should be given this summer then reassess and I don't really get where the idea comes from that bowlers don't make good captains. A good captain is a good captain whether he bats or bowls.  If the captaincy was taken away from Cook, I would give it to Anderson, he has no concerns about keeping his place and has plenty of experience to draw on to make the right calls.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: tim2000s on June 17, 2014, 09:25:21 AM
Cook should be given this summer then reassess and I don't really get where the idea comes from that bowlers don't make good captains. A good captain is a good captain whether he bats or bowls.
History tends to show that not many bowlers make good captains. Realistically though, it shouldn't make a difference. At an international level, you should know the strengths and weaknesses of an oppo batsman and set your fields accordingly.

You'd also think that as a bowler, you'd have a better idea how to modify the field and what you're doing to get the batsman out...

Oh well...!
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Stuey on June 17, 2014, 09:46:39 AM
History tends to show that not many bowlers make good captains. Realistically though, it shouldn't make a difference. At an international level, you should know the strengths and weaknesses of an oppo batsman and set your fields accordingly.

I agree, but I'd also say that maybe the wrong bowlers were given the role. As an example Flintoff should never have been made captain over Strauss, that was fairly obvious at the time. However I think Swann would have made a good tactical skipper as I think Anderson will, some bowlers don't really think outside of their next over, but you can see Anderson speaking to the bowlers at the top of their run up all the time, helping them to get fields and areas right.  I also think the team would follow him as he leads from the front. I'm from Essex and am backing Cook, but for me Anderson would be the better skipper.   
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Nmcgee on June 17, 2014, 10:09:34 AM
As an Aussie on the outside looking in, I reckon Ben Stokes showed some real balls when the chips were down and I think that's what you need in a leader. How about Bell to lead (also a serious competitor with balls) until Stokes is ready?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Johnny on June 17, 2014, 10:14:28 AM
'Having Balls' and 'Tactical Nous' are 2 different things though.

Ideally you want both, but I reckon someone who's conservative but has grasp on the tactical side of things (e.g. Strauss) would do a better job than some one who has heart but no head.

Does Cook have either??
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Nmcgee on June 17, 2014, 10:58:41 AM
Is tactical nous something that can be learned? Does he have the support network on and off the field to assist with decision-making. Michael Clark would rely pretty heavily on the coaching staff to assist in tactical decision-making over a test match I reckon.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Johnny on June 17, 2014, 11:43:24 AM
No, it's a gut instinct type thing. Off field planning is good, but the best captains know when they will benefit from deviating from the plan.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: 400notout on June 17, 2014, 11:51:06 AM
Is Andrew Gale.

Probably wouldn't have an issue with him. Boycs would love another Yorkie in the side too!
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Manormanic on June 17, 2014, 02:41:31 PM
Probably wouldn't have an issue with him. Boycs would love another Yorkie in the side too!

Problem is, we're running otta them for our own side - in August when there are tests, Lions games, Under 19 and Under 17 internationals we're so short that I'm expecting the call...
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: MD2812 on June 17, 2014, 02:49:31 PM
At club level I always feel with bowler captains the problem is that they tend to under or over bowl themselves.

as for predicting the future, although the wrong sport, remember people can come from nowhere who may be better than those we seem to think are knocking on the door. This is the Daily mail's 2014 world cup team predicted back in 2007.

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2njlwfo.jpg)
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Cumbrian Pete on June 17, 2014, 02:50:45 PM
It's a difficult one with a dearth of outstanding candidates.  Root clearly has the right temperament for test cricket but his tactical nous is unproven.  It would be a gamble, but then Graeme Smith was appointed very young for SA and he did pretty well.  Maybe Root is the way to go after this series.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: pie-man on June 17, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
Is tactical nous something that can be learned? Does he have the support network on and off the field to assist with decision-making. Michael Clark would rely pretty heavily on the coaching staff to assist in tactical decision-making over a test match I reckon.

I think this support network was evident on the last day against SL.  Cook came up with some interesting fields and seemed to try different things after tea.  Clearly someone has had a work in his ear!

He would have been sat with the support network on the previous day when we (I) thought he should have declared; I wonder the managements involvement in the decision.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Stuey on June 17, 2014, 03:14:56 PM
I think this support network was evident on the last day against SL.  Cook came up with some interesting fields and seemed to try different things after tea.  Clearly someone has had a work in his ear!

He would have been sat with the support network on the previous day when we (I) thought he should have declared; I wonder the managements involvement in the decision.

It's been reported that Anderson came up with the fields.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Manormanic on June 17, 2014, 05:42:13 PM
It's been reported that Anderson came up with the fields.

Lets leave it that Cook seemed to be quite passive compared to his bowlers?
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 18, 2014, 08:47:10 AM
At club level I always feel with bowler captains the problem is that they tend to under or over bowl themselves.
This! When I had my stint last year I was so worried about giving everyone else a go I'd turn up, captain for 40 overs then bat myself at 11. We had one captain who gives himself a game first (bowls his allocation and bats himself 4 or 5) and I wanted to make sure I wasn't in that mould, but probably went too far in ensuring I didn't.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Cumbrian Pete on June 18, 2014, 12:34:19 PM
Cameron, I think batting yourself at 11 is probably a bit too generous to the rest of the team.  I drop down from opening to number 6 or 7 if I'm skip for the day, but I guess it depends on your usual batting position.
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on June 18, 2014, 12:41:41 PM
Cameron, I think batting yourself at 11 is probably a bit too generous to the rest of the team.  I drop down from opening to number 6 or 7 if I'm skip for the day, but I guess it depends on your usual batting position.
I'm a number 12 on current form!  :(
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: alexhilly1492 on June 18, 2014, 12:59:31 PM
get Wayne madsen rushed through, its about time we had another south African in the side now we've lost Strauss and KP!! also i think one of the better captains about, although being at derbyshire is a disadvantage to his case...
Title: Re: Looking ahead, the next England captain...?
Post by: Cumbrian Pete on June 18, 2014, 01:42:58 PM
I know that feeling, Cameron.  After three LBWs in my first three games this season playing the same shot I was toying with the idea of pinning a sign to my back with 'walking wicket' on it!  Thankfully, things have improved a bit since then...