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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: joeljonno on July 21, 2014, 08:02:04 PM
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Prior taking an extended break from all cricket.
Interesting turn of events.
Who will take over?
Buttler, Read, Foster, Bairstow?
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I think Buttler will be thrown in.Nothing to lose have we?
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I suspect he hurts both physically and mentally and it's now time to just stop. He's been out of sorts in both the last two tests and come off injuries.
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Buttler time
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Wow....didn't see this coming. I expected him to at least finish this series. I think that commentator during presentation didn't help his cause either.
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England need leaders in the team. That rules out Buttler. Throw in Buttler's a pretty average keeper.
Chris Read is the man for England.
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England need leaders in the team. That rules out Buttler. Throw in Buttler's a pretty average keeper.
Chris Read is the man for England.
Agree
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England need leaders in the team. That rules out Buttler. Throw in Buttler's a pretty average keeper.
Chris Read is the man for England.
Average is being kind to him, he's a poor keeper particularly when standing up.
Don't need another middle order batsman with no feet movement, already got plenty in this line up sitting on the backfoot.
Read would be the best option but don't see it happening
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I think Buttler will be thrown in.Nothing to lose have we?
Only a Test series?
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#ChrisReadForEngland
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We need a player for the future, not Read or Foster. Time had passed them by.
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When prior was an injury doubt, buttler was added to the squad. doesn't matter what the public think, that shows they mind is already made.
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Interesting reading his statement. Trouble with Achilles, torn Quad before the first test and a busted right hand. He really shouldn't have been playing in this series at all.
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Foster and Read are 34 and 35 and still have the high class glovework!
They can both bat a bit too. And as Prior wasn't adding any runs, we wouldn't be losing out on the runs! And unlikely to be the same dropped catches and missed chances as Prior has been providing for our entertainment! Plus they would both make good Captains with a wealth of experience!
And either one could be playing whilst Buttler (or whichever young gun is the next keeper hopeful in favour) is gaining experience and coached to improve his glovework ;)
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Foster for me.
There is no better gloveman right now.
He will also do well against the types of bowling India have. He struggles against the really quick stuff.
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I can see the reasoning for choosing Read or Foster. However if England are serious about the attractive brand of cricket they want to play, then it has to be Butler all the way.
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Sad to see prior leave like this. He's been a top servant for England and one of the key reasons the team reached no:1
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as much as i would love to see Read or Foster play i just cant see it happening i think kieswetter would have more chance if he wasn't injured.
Buttler is a nailed on certainty i also think they should make eoin morgan one day captain and bring him back into the test side
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Look to the future select Buttler
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Look to the future select Buttler
He's a crap keeper!!
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Foster for me.
There is no better gloveman right now.
He will also do well against the types of bowling India have. He struggles against the really quick stuff.
I would go for Foster too as his glovework is some of the best anywhere!
Buttler or one of the other younger guys has to be the future but there should be a transition period!!
Plus with all the stress and issues with England, it's not the ideal time to introduce Buttler into this pressure cooker! Someone like Foster (or Read) would have the experience/mentality to deal with it better!
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Another Englishman stepping away from cricket...
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Chris read has had some top knocks this year, he isn't a bad batter. He's not prior, but he's the man for the job. A year ago I'd have said Steven Davies but he's really gone AWOL this year
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Davies timing in taking a sabbatical from Keeping couldn't have been any worse. To top it all he's now stopped scoring runs. As King Pair said a year ago Davies would have got the gig by a country mile.
I think we go with the best gloveman - forget whether he bats or not, it makes no difference given how terrible we are at batting anyway. Who that is though
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Unfortunately, there's no way they'll look past Butler, after calling him up earlier, he's next in line by the looks I things. And I think it stinks. He's not in the top 5 keepers in England, but yet he's first in line, how does that work out? I don't care how old foster and read are, if they're good enough, they're young enough, simples. Look at Chris Rogers, didn't do too badly.
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Oh and they're both good leaders, something the team is lacking
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Do you think he walked away willingly? Got a tap on the shoulder, or saw the writing in the wall?
How old is he, will this be the end of him as England's keeper?
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If my memory serves me right wasn't prior a relatively poor keeper when he was given the nod to play for England?
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If my memory serves me right wasn't prior a relatively poor keeper when he was given the nod to play for England?
He wasn't amazing but he was a proper keeper. It was his batting they got him ahead of Ambrose but he he has always been a keeper. Unlike Buttler who is a batsmen who wears a pair of keeping gloves
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He wasn't amazing but he was a proper keeper. It was his batting they got him ahead of Ambrose but he he has always been a keeper. Unlike Buttler who is a batsmen who wears a pair of keeping gloves
Ah ok fair enough
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Totally agree Prior shouldn't have played this series - got picked for his experience. When he stayed down after taking the first innings diving catch to his right it wasn't relief (in holding on after missing one earlier), it was pain...
Buttler will get the nod and I'm a big fan, I just think they need a steady head and a keeper they don't have to worry about. Keeping in ODIs is very different to the discipline required for tests, where you can be in the field for a couple of days (which is likely with this team). If Buttler's picked he will make mistakes, but I do agree he is a future first choice, I'd personally like him to have a full season of keeping, work with England over the winter and take a look at him from there.
The selectors are doing their job for the press and media. In other words, they're making decisions to avoid being criticised rather than being brave, admitting they were wrong and picking the best players. They will pick Buttler, which is fine, but they should pick Read at a time when Cook needs all the help he can get. An experienced Lieutenant, not a gamble promoted from the ranks...
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Read or Foster, both would be ideal options, ready made, no pressure on that part of the team for the series - one less thing for Cook to worry about.
Would be ideal short term to have Read/Foster in the squad to work with Buttler for some time and groom him for the keepers spot eventually!
These experienced guys who've taken loads of wickets/thousands of runs in county cricket should be tapped into for the benefit of the young hopefuls we have searching for England spots!
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I wish people would stop banging on about Read.
He's had 2 go's at keeping for England and has come up short both times. He simply doesn't get enough runs at test match level. Like every other team playing test cricket, runs first and catches later. We can't afford to carry a specialist keeper at the moment. He's also older than prior, hardly a forward step.
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We could afford to carry a specialist keeper if we were not carrying Cook already, but there is absolutely no way on the planet it should be Read. Foster, yes, Read, no...
Lyth
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Foster
Jordan
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson
Plenty of batting. No spinner tho...
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I disagree with the runs first theory - get a keeper who takes all his chances including the harder ones and if you get a couple batsman on 30 rather than letting them score tons - you've probably saved more runs with the gloves than a batting keeper will score with the bat.
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I disagree with the runs first theory - get a keeper who takes all his chances including the harder ones and if you get a couple batsman on 30 rather than letting them score tons - you've probably saved more runs with the gloves than a batting keeper will score with the bat.
It would be interesting to see how much Prior's glovework has cost (i.e. byes and drops) compared to his total runs scored. Particularly in the last 18 months or so
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I disagree with the runs first theory - get a keeper who takes all his chances including the harder ones and if you get a couple batsman on 30 rather than letting them score tons - you've probably saved more runs with the gloves than a batting keeper will score with the bat.
I agree with this! If you catch a couple of main batsmen early and save 100 runs becuase of it, then the keeper has already started on +100 runs in the bank. Foster may hit a 20 or 30, but even if he's out quite cheaply, then he has taken the catches Prior couldn't plus Prior isn't batting well at the moment anyway!
But this isn't going to happen anyway...as Buttler will get the gig!
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Damn you Gilchrist....
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If you have guys like Plunkett / Broad down as low as 9/10 whos to say you cant have an out and out keeper?
If your top 7/8 arent doing the job then thats the problem not the keeper who seem to have to average 40 nowadays!
Sorry but if you drop Kohli/Pujara etc on 0 and they make 200/300 doesn't matter if you average 40 with the bat, the game is killed because you picked an inferior gloveman.
This will probably cause a bit of ruckus. But a hundred doesn't win you a game, 20 wickets does. if you have the best gloveman available to take those chances then you'll take more wickets = potentially more wins. Simple.
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Prior says in his book that he asked Bruce French to turn him into Chris Read. Surely that's endorsement enough. His keeping in the mcc game was exemplary, as a short term fix why not give him another go?
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By the same logic Monty should play instead of Ali. Oh wait, nobody below 5 gets enough runs to prop the batting up and even then 1 and 5 haven't got anything for a long time.
The problem has been our batting. Prior is most definitely in the positive on runs v missed chances. Read averages 18.94 in tests and would need to take catches that save 44 runs a test (19.84-40.83) that a fit Matt Prior wouldn't of taken. Are we feeling confident that Prior get's enough chances in each test (5 catches over 2 innings on the ECB standard road at Trent Bridge) that Read would take more to cover 44 runs? Not over a dozen tests I'm not.
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Picking Butter as a keeper is like picking Ali as a the only spinner. England believe that a batsman who can bowl spin is good enough for them.
It is up to their team management whether they decide they want a batsman who can keep or a specialist keeper.
I don't like the idea of assigning a role to someone that they aren't the best at. From what I have seen Buttler is a good enough outfielder to see him in as a specialist batsman. Therefore I believe Read should play as he is a better keeper than Buttler.
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Rather than who should come in, I think Prior actually let England down by playing at all in this series. He is disappearing off for surgery on his achilles and has numerous other injuries.
Whether it's Butler, Foster or Read (and I'd personally prefer a proper gloveman rather than a batting backstop), they should really have played from the start of the series. Water under the bridge now, but it reveals (for me at least) a bit of a view as to how the team is being managed and what the priorities are.
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Seems odd for somebody who was dropped to be deemed so important as to play injured.Seems like an acknowledgement that Prior was more the teams leader than Cook and possibly the brains in the brains trust. Why wouldn't you bring in Buttler for Sri Lanka otherwise? Worst that could of happened was for Buttler to foul up and Prior return (fit) for India?
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Personally I have really rated Prior for a very long time and shame he is going to head out in this way. I also think he shouldn't have played as he really isn't fit and that must also play on his mind which will effect his keeping.
It is certainly going to be butler and he has waited long enough but the other name that has t been mentioned and I'm sure he isn't in selectors minds yet but hopefully will be is Sam Billings. Very very good young keeper and very handy with the bat and can bat in any position so would like to see him feature in Lions squads and get some experience around the test team but that's my personal thoughts.
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So the 3 hour delay resulted in Buttler in for Prior and Kerrigan being released.
Seems that we are going to stick with what we have and hope they can all improve their performances then.
England squad for 3rd Test: Cook Ali Anderson Ballance Bell Broad Buttler Jordan Plunkett Robson Root Stokes Woakes
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Personally I have really rated Prior for a very long time and shame he is going to head out in this way. I also think he shouldn't have played as he really isn't fit and that must also play on his mind which will effect his keeping.
It is certainly going to be butler and he has waited long enough but the other name that has t been mentioned and I'm sure he isn't in selectors minds yet but hopefully will be is Sam Billings. Very very good young keeper and very handy with the bat and can bat in any position so would like to see him feature in Lions squads and get some experience around the test team but that's my personal thoughts.
Sam's a top lad and played u19's for England. My company is sponsoring his shirts at kent this year so if he gets a lions shirt i want a signed one of these too! :) My guess would be that its a bit too soon for him though
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He was quality at his peak. I think england now need to decide whether they want a top keeper who bats a bit or a decent batter who might be a good keeper in a few years. I have always been a believer that a keeper is a specialist so the best keeper available should be picked, either read or foster at the moment. Not great batters but would certainly not miss the chances prior has been missing recently
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I wonder if Stokes, Woakes and Foakes will ever play in the same England team.
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I wonder if Stokes, Woakes and Foakes will ever play in the same England team.
It would be a hoax.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28444357 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28444357)
What a load of old tosh!
He wasn't fully fit and shouldn't have played as he couldn't do his job properly for the national team. I'm guessing either he didn't fully disclose this, or Cook and Moores thought they could take a risk on him - both incorrect decisions. In these circumstances the media were always going to scrutinise.
IMHO poor management not media intrusion.
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It would be a hoax.
but they are all decent blokes :)
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but they are all decent blokes :)
That's England's selection policy, so chances are they'll play together at some point.
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[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28444357[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28444357[/url])
What a load of old tosh!
He wasn't fully fit and shouldn't have played as he couldn't do his job properly for the national team. I'm guessing either he didn't fully disclose this, or Cook and Moores thought they could take a risk on him - both incorrect decisions. In these circumstances the media were always going to scrutinise.
IMHO poor management not media intrusion.
Agreed... I believe there is something from Airplane that sums this up... Ah, yes.... This:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/PrimitiveScrewhead1973/31feb_ORIG-UnbelievableBullshitAirplaneIIAnimated.gif)
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but they are all decent blokes :)
terrible jokes :o
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What happend to bairstow being the Eng keeper - was it literally the fact he was out in Aus that he got the gloves. He seems to have been thoroughly discarded.
Anyone know how hes doing at Yorks this year? He seemed to suffer from '12th man syndrome' for a loooong time
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He has just been selected for Lions next month.
I think he was taken as a batsman firstly and then a keeper second.
He is doing alright for Yorkshire. Getting runs too.
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I can't believe lyth wasn't selected for the lions!
Hales has been though. Hope he does well and makes it to tests. An attacking England is something I'd like to see in my lifetime.
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We need a player for the future, not Read or Foster. Time had passed them by.
Surely with 3 tests then a break this is the perfect time for Read?
Buttler can get experience at county level, then work with Bruce French over winter to get him to the required standard?
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I really don't understand Bopara's selection. It isn't that he is talented or good enough, but he has played for England over 150 times - we kind of know what we get with him.
I agree Lyth should have been given a nod.
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I really don't understand Bopara's selection. It isn't that he is talented or good enough, but he has played for England over 150 times - we kind of know what we get with him.
I agree Lyth should have been given a nod.
England Lions squad: James Taylor (Nottinghamshire, capt), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Ravi Bopara (Essex), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Stephen Parry (Lancashire), Harry Gurney (Nottinghamshire), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Craig Overton (Somerset), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ravi Patel (Middlesex), Tom Smith (Lancashire), James Vince (Hampshire), David Willey (Northamptonshire).
Seems to be a strange squad to me, I thought Parry had been forgotten, Bopara has played so many times for England I can't see what good a lions tour will do for him, and some interesting exclusions.
On the bright side hopefully Finny will be back to his best and playing for England again soon, we need another wicket taking seamer for the test side.
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Glad Taylor is in (and captain too). Alway feels like he has been harshly treated.
Bit surprised kerrigan not included to get more experience as he's been dropped by full squad
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I think this lions squad demonstrates the mess England are in. Where are the spinners who would benefit from this exposure? What about the batsmen who are flaying County attacks? lyth? For me it demonstrates everything that is wrong rather than a system working well...
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