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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: alexhilly1492 on August 30, 2014, 11:25:21 AM
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just watching the 3rd odi vs India and i cant help thinking that this England side needs a revamp, not just in personnel but in tactics as well, this Indian side is young, energetic and vibrant with a good mix of older experienced players, this is what England must be after surely??
either that or go the other way with a side bursting with youth, some thing like this:
hales, roy, taylor*, root, ali, buttler, stokes, woakes, jordan, finn, gurney with a wider squad to choose from with some great young talent around the counties along the lines of alex lees, adam lyth, james vince, sam northeast, sam billings, adam ball, adam riley, scott borthwick, danny briggs
yes i can see how this isn't as greater talent as a lot of nations however with decent coaching staff and better support than the England side have at the moment surely this will give england a greater chance of winning silverware and series!!
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England's problem is they can't play spin for toffee.
They are unable to rotate the strike or hit boundaries to counter the spinners.
Changing the whole team won't solve that.
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spin is an issue and this current group of players have the media all over them for it, start from scratch and work on it, the lions had a succesful tour to sri lanka last winter and could play spin then!
the world cup in aus/nz wont be played on spinning wickets and so wont be a massive issue, its the older players are letting the side down as was shown in the test series, new players, new attitude, new start!!
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The ideal selection view to me would look something like
Hales - Deserves to keep his place.
Vince/Roy
Bell - Class player, think with less pressure he could be valuable in the side and keep some experience.
Taylor - Deserves a spot in the side sometime soon I think.
Root/Ballance
Buttler
Bopara - Needs to be in.
Woakes
Tredwell - Has convinced me recently, originally had him out.
Anderson - Not for the death
Finn
Roy/Vince - Roys more of a hard hitter who pays off sometimes whereas Vince is more of a technique player who still scores at a quick rate.
Morgan - Dropped out of form but still the potential to come off.
Ballance - Want to get him in the side but simply can't.
Bairstow - Going well in the lions, probably deserves a reserve keeper spot if we need one.
Stokes - Out of form, probably needs a bit more county time right now. Still not too sure about him personally.
Jordan - Needs a bit of coaching on his action and run up.
Briggs - Good T20 season, yet again, probably deserves another look in (from a Hants fan point of view however)
Ali - Potential 4th/5th backup bower for Bopara/Tredwell
Gurney - Valuable left arm seamer, bit inexperienced however and was a surprise pick for me when he first came onto the scene.
Plunkett - Could potentially be useful on Aussie pitches.
We need to keep at least a bit of experience still in there I think.
All my opinion of course.
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Said it before and will say again Sam Billings must be close to getting a look. Butler not exactly setting the world alight and average keeper from what I've seen.
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The key difference between England and India, is the same what hinders India in Test cricket.
Indian players are brought up on slow pitches, therefore they are taught to attack in all forms of cricket. Therefore they go after the bowling in all formats. This leads to their demise in Test cricket eg they don't know how to defence their wickets.
Whereas England are brought up on pitched offering swing/seam/bounce therefore it's difficult to just pin the ears back and have a dart.
But England do seem to be brought up with the notion of preserving their wicket. As if you watch Australia/New Zealand/South Africa they are also brought up on wickets that offer something for bowlers, yet they are taught to attack the bowlers.
England are far too tentative to attack. Even bad balls, in ODIs, seem to go unpunished.
Whether England have dynamic players like the leading ODI teams is unknown, but players like Cook and Bell should be axed. Senior players whom are hindering rather than inspiring.
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The majority of the England team live their careers with failure in mind. They play with the 'Need to avoid failure' attitude rather than a 'Need to achieve' attitude. Now some of you may think this is the same approach but it definitely isn't. How often do you see them take calculated risks? Very few! They have no confidence in themselves and unfortunately while some members of the team are still in the squad they will sour the introduction of others.
Something needs to change and fast!
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Said it before and will say again Sam Billings must be close to getting a look. Butler not exactly setting the world alight and average keeper from what I've seen.
Highly doubt Billings is anywhere near it personally.
Gerry : I still personally think Bell should stay in, fair enough drop Cook, but Bell with the removal of all the current pressure would be allowed to bat more freely again, as happened at T20 finals day where he looked class (expect that chip off Flintoff :-[).
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Bring bk our best one day player #BlameKP
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England have always been behind the times in ODI's, I read recently about Vaughn criticising Cook, he forgot about how much he cried when they removed him, his ODI record was abysmal. Too many bit's and pieces players, have a solid player like bell for attacking batsmen to play around. I don't think they can carry cook.
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Billings is a fair bit away (which is a shame). Think he'd get a place on the EPP program this winter as think lions might be a bit too far right now
Are England behind the times or just not very good?
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One person definitely needed in this side is Taylor. Is 50 over form us ridiculous.
Commentators keep saying that if the lions played the England 1st xi it would be close.
I disagree. The lions would destroy them like India are.
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Taylor and Roy in the t20 squad. It's a start?
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Taylor and Roy in the t20 squad. It's a start?
Will do them good carrying the drinks for the England no hopers!
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Just read this tweet from Luke Wright:
''Disappointed I'm not in after scoring over 600 runs at end of group stage but that's life. Delighted 4 @JasonRoy20 & @jamestaylor20 congrats''
He certainly scored runs this year. Has his time gone?
Nice to see him congratulate Roy and Taylor.
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Will do them good carrying the drinks for the England no hopers!
Highly doubt it, would have thought the team would look like :
Hales
Roy (Possibly Ali)
Morgan*
Taylor
Root
Buttler+
Bopara
Woakes
Jordan
Tredwell
Finn
Gurney
Bresnan
Ali
Potentially Ali in for Taylor or Root?
Have a feeling Roy is going to be one of those players who either takes international cricket by storm or just can't convert what he does in domestic cricket to international cricket.
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Billings is a fair bit away (which is a shame). Think he'd get a place on the EPP program this winter as think lions might be a bit too far right now
Are England behind the times or just not very good?
Read a surprising stat the other day, since the last world cup England have won a nearly identical amount of ODI games as Australia while also playing nearly the same amount of games, can't remember the exact figures.
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Read a surprising stat the other day, since the last world cup England have won a nearly identical amount of ODI games as Australia while also playing nearly the same amount of games, can't remember the exact figures.
Sounds an interesting stat. Heard swann say in the podcast where they were selecting their squad that England went to number 1 by winning quite a few games in a row (think he said 10) when India and Sri Lanka were last here. That probably accounts for a fair bit of those. In the last 18 months or so they can't have won many. 2 down to India now, lost the series to SL, were beaten home and away in a series by Australia. I guess the champions trophy was fairly successful.
I think we've got some good odi players just they don't seem to click as a team. I really do wonder why Cook plays odi cricket but given the chance to captain in a World Cup is probably something he won't do again so I think that part of it. His game just really doesn't seem suited to odi cricket. I wonder if the test series hadn't been turned around whether they would have gone a bit more experimental with the side. Does seem they are picking on test form a bit
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Yep, completely agree. I think it was around just over 50 games played of which we'd won just over 30.
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Cook needs to go. I would also like to see Anderson only playing red ball cricket
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England might have a decent record in ODIs, .500 record.
But how many series have they won?
Winning 20 off games, yet losing 4/5 series means something isn't working.
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this is brilliant from Martin Crowe...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/779387.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/779387.html)
A blueprint for England's World Cup campaign
Teams need to start strategising now for next year's event by picking the right men for various roles. England need to get on it sooner than most
Conducting a World Cup campaign is one big roller-coaster ride. The key is staying on track and building, while preventing the wheels coming off before a ball is bowled. In my experience of playing three World Cups, and watching a few thereafter, I am convinced you need to prioritise, place what is important first and not deviate from that.
The first priority I would establish is strategy. That means knowing the rules by which you will be playing the competition. These days the 50-over game is changing by the hour, or so it feels. Rules come and go, and at present it is mostly a dog's breakfast. Whatever it is, you have got to lap it up, so knowing how the rules work is rule No. 1.
Let's recap: the first ten overs have two men catching and two men outside the 30-yard ring. That hasn't changed for a while, except there are two new balls back in vogue. In Australasia, on true surfaces and smallish grounds, two new balls will not be a major factor and will only encourage the batting side to manipulate the opening Powerplay (the first ten overs) even more.
In good conditions down under, a run rate of six runs an over has to be the minimum. Therefore there is a need for two of the top three batsmen to be counter-attacking hitters. The bowling, in turn, must look to attack and restrict the run rate by taking wickets. With two new balls in use, the emphasis falls on selecting genuine specialist wicket-takers.
Next to know is how to exploit the field restrictions for the remaining 40 overs. For the non-Powerplay overs, only four fielders are allowed outside the inner ring. This has changed from five to four, for a reason no one has yet explained, except to provide a further imbalance between bat and ball.
Through these 25 overs, spinners are important, with their change of pace and the ability to utilise the 15-degree arm-straightening rule an added advantage to providing mystery. Some deem this necessary to balance the contest, which is a shame, but these unnecessary rules force the issue. The batting equation should be a minimum of 120 runs scored at the minimum rate of 4.8 runs per over. So after 35 overs, assuming the batting Powerplay is yet to be taken, a bare minimum of approximately 180 should be mounted, with ideally six or more wickets in hand.
A bowling mix of attack and economy is important, but a team needs to always be on the hunt to secure wickets, the best way to stem the run rate. At no stage must a field be set to defend a ground. It must be set to attack the batsman's wicket. From the batting viewpoint, good, instinctive players of spin are important through these middle overs; the ability to use feet and energy are the main attributes. Positive, proactive running between the wickets is necessary through this period, to force mistakes in the field.
The lawmakers have deemed that in the second Powerplay the field restrictions drop to only three men outside the ring. It's this dangling of the carrot that has messed up many an innings. Instead of working the gaps, which include the boundary gaps, batsmen get lured early and try to clear the fence in this five-over period, and get caught in their own web.
Posting five an over during this period is a minimum. The key is to not get carried away with trying for eight-plus per over. A six should be struck instinctively, not predetermined. For the final ten overs, the restrictions go back to four fielders outside the circle. Premeditated six-hitting should be saved for the last five overs, if resources allow. Overall, scores of 280-plus should be the minimum.
If the bowling side hasn't taken enough wickets through the first 40 overs then the death could well be looming. Anything from seven an over, up to ten-plus, can be gained if the bowling attack hasn't taken wickets, doesn't have options, and has lost positivity.
Bowling sides need a mix of four specialists and two allrounders - six being the minimum required, but the more options the better, as often one or two will struggle on any given day. Captains need to move through their overs at pace, not allowing the batsmen to keep reassessing the situation. Two stolen quick overs hurried through can be the difference in a tight match. Captains who are responsible for slow over rates are a liability. Indecision will lose you matches. Above all else, the captain must look to attack whenever possible, being proactive and inventive, always staying an over ahead of the game.
Fielding has to be of a very high standard, and generally the best fielding side is often the best team in the tournament. Each fielder needs to specialise in a position or area of the field to be truly effective. They need to occupy this position throughout, so the captain knows instinctively where each individual is stationed.
Let's add the personnel to fit this strategy and let's use England, as they seem to need it the most, to demonstrate how I would go about planning their campaign, even from afar.
First, I write down the best one-day specialist players in the country from 1 to 11, and alongside each, write down the next-best player for that position (two if possible). The same player may be put down for two different positions, but that just means that he is flexible. I am basing my selections on the wisdom of all the various England ex-captains I have heard in recent times, and from what I have seen on television, international and domestic matches included.
Openers: Alex Hales, Jason Roy, James Vince, Moeen Ali
Nos. 3 and 4: Joe Root, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, James Taylor, Gary Ballance
No. 5: Eoin Morgan (capt), Roy, Ravi Bopara
No. 6, keeper: Jos Buttler, Jonny Bairstow
No. 7, batting allrounder: Bopara, Moeen, Adil Rashid
No. 8, bowling allrounder: Ben Stokes, Chris Jordan, Chris Woakes
No. 9, spinner: James Tredwell, Moeen, Rashid
No. 10, speed: Stuart Broad, Steven Finn
No. 11, swing: James Anderson, Harry Gurney
That is a starting squad of 22 players. Kevin Pietersen is included on the basis he is available. If he is not, as he wasn't at a previous time, then Bell moves up one on the list.
While thinking of the rules and the various set plays or periods, I select the team that can do those roles for those strategies. What I ended with was this playing XI and four reserves to compete in the next dozen one-day internationals. The 15 are:
Openers: Hales and Roy/Moeen
Nos. 3 and 4: Root and Pietersen
Nos. 5 and 6: Morgan and Buttler
Nos. 7 and 8: Bopara/Moeen and Stokes
Nos. 9 and 10: Tredwell and Broad
No 11: Anderson
Reserves: Bairstow, Jordan and Finn
Moeen becomes the left-hand option as a utility opener / No. 3 / No. 7 and back-up spinner. I make a choice between Bopara and Moeen depending on whether it's a seaming or spinning pitch, assuming both are batting well. For the bowling allrounder position between Stokes and Jordan, I select based on their attacking form of the day, or perhaps Finn is considered as the third quick along with Anderson and Broad, although this leaves Broad at 8, which is one too high. Bairstow, backing up as keeper / No. 6, rounds off the squad of 15.
Finally and importantly, Morgan captains the team based on his greater experience and specialist quality as a one-day match-winner. His job is to get the team through the overs efficiently and decisively.
This squad needs 12 matches to work and cement the strategy, settle combinations. That will also give enough time for slight changes, if needed, due to form or fitness mainly, most likely in the bowling department.
During that time the team needs to also find the unpredictable, something that the opposition wouldn't have thought of as they look at the current side. There has to be an element of surprise somewhere.
My coaching staff would be Ashley Giles, Graham Thorpe and Paul Collingwood, who all know the game first-hand and have worked in this limited-overs role before. The change of staff gives a fresh, specialist perspective.