Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: Ryan on September 11, 2014, 07:08:00 PM
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Hi everyone, I've been making bats for a few years now and have always relied on having my clefts pressed by various people and i think this needs to change. Building my own press is something I've been toying with over the last year or so and think i need to take the plunge. Why make one rather than buy one i hear you say?? Well I'm weird and enjoy this kind of stuff, not knowing exactly how it will finish. Just the challenge compells me to succeed.
A couple of minor issues, i haven't a clue how to weld. Its not something that I've ever tried before and the other issue is the engineering side of it. What size steel will take the force of 2 or 3 ton of pressure without collapsing. i suppose that part will be trial and error and all part of the fun.
So first up the design brief;
Full steel frame, unsure on overall height and length
Capacitor start/ stop motor (not sure on the HP just yet)
Gearing mechanism to move the sled (maybe gears and chain system)
Roller (flat and concaved)
Roller mounting, does it need to be mounted on bearings?
Mechanism to increase pressure, maybe use a traditional manual screw or a more complex pneumatic with pressure gauge system
I think that's the main points. Feel free to add anything else.
Any thoughts or help would be appreciated????
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Best of luck with the project
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Ryan, don't' underestimate the task. I am currently in the process of getting my own design made up (going to inspect some parts tomorrow , actually). Would be happy to discuss and share the process with you if you want to call me some time.
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Just but one from India and modify it , believe me it's a lot easier ! And cheaper
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A couple of options on learning to weld. Go to a local fabricators and do some work for free. There is bound to be little tedious jobs that they need doing(I've done this myself)and this will help you learn how to weld. Or ask/pay for any off cuts of box section and hire a welding kit and practice yourself.
Do you have access to a press or do you buy in the pressed clefts?
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Ryan, don't' underestimate the task. I am currently in the process of getting my own design made up (going to inspect some parts tomorrow , actually). Would be happy to discuss and share the process with you if you want to call me some time.
How did you get on, and how far along are you in the process??
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Just but one from India and modify it , believe me it's a lot easier ! And cheaper
Any idea on rough cost Matt and any contacts?? I'd love to see your press if you don't mind.
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http://www.alibaba.com/cricket-bat-pressing-machine-suppliers.html (http://www.alibaba.com/cricket-bat-pressing-machine-suppliers.html)
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How did you get on, and how far along are you in the process??
Ryan
I am currently having the components fabricated as we speak. I saw the completed tube framework yesterday which was very exciting and we went through the drawings for the other components. I am lucky in that I was able to fully design and model the whole press in 3D CAD, having been an engineer for almost 25 years. This is also the reason I have been able to save considerable money on the project (I have a budget of around £800-900). I was also luck enough to be able to base the design on an old lathe pulled out of a hedge that was originally used to make wooden barrels. Previous attempts were based around old mangles but didn't really work very well.
If you look up 'bat press machine' you will find an Indian company producing presses to order for about $2500 but I doubt this includes shipping or import charges (if any, H4L may be helpful with info on that)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cricket-Bat-Press-Machine_151150221.html (http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cricket-Bat-Press-Machine_151150221.html)
(http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y534/SticklebackCricket/BatPressFrame_zps409623b7.jpg) (http://s1279.photobucket.com/user/SticklebackCricket/media/BatPressFrame_zps409623b7.jpg.html)
Like I mentioned , If I can be of any help to you please contact me.
regards
James
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Thanks James, i'd be intrested to see how it comes out.
I was thinking of speaking to the guys that make these kind of rollers.
(http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh498/Kelsallcustombats/english-wheel-anvils_zpsd01f193b.jpg)
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Are they out of your Heelys?
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Are they out of your Heelys?
i'm not young enough or cool enough to own a pair fattus, have you got a pair i can borrow??
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Thanks James, i'd be intrested to see how it comes out.
I was thinking of speaking to the guys that make these kind of rollers.
([url]http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh498/Kelsallcustombats/english-wheel-anvils_zpsd01f193b.jpg[/url])
An integral bearing is one way to go certainly. My design has the bearing housing mounted of the frame (off the shelf components) and the roller shaft fitting onto them. I will try and get a picture from the 3D model.
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its probably easier and cheaper to get a roller machined and then fixed to an external bearing block. something like this??
http://www.astbearings.com/two-bolt-pillow-blocks.html (http://www.astbearings.com/two-bolt-pillow-blocks.html)
mounted upside down on a metal beam for support.
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An integral bearing is one way to go certainly. My design has the bearing housing mounted of the frame (off the shelf components) and the roller shaft fitting onto them. I will try and get a picture from the 3D model.
Here an image of the 3D model
(http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y534/SticklebackCricket/Rollerview_zps933b9730.png) (http://s1279.photobucket.com/user/SticklebackCricket/media/Rollerview_zps933b9730.png.html)
It shows a flat roller but I have a few profiles. The green bits are off the self 'tapped base pillow block units" that take a 30mm diameter shaft from the roller (no bearings in the roller itself)
Having the bearings integral to the roller may over-complicate the design. However, I'm not seeing the it within the context of your design so it may be fine.
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Think this thread is going to be my favourite.
I had a contact for a press in India, will try to dig it out if interested
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Looks very good James, how have you found sourcing the roller??
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I will look tmw I might have a spare roller I would sell if that helps ?
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Looks very good James, how have you found sourcing the roller??
No problems at all. It's just a turned component so anyone with the right CNC lathe (if you want a radius, otherwise a manual lathe is fine) should be able to do it, I have a local fabricator doing all the components for me. I purposely designed all the parts so that they could be made as cheaply as possible from the cheapest materials (low carbon steel mostly). The only difference with the roller is that it really needs to be made from stainless steel which is a fairly expensive material. Especially if you have a large diameter, I have kept mine quite small because of this. The only other thing with the roller was making sure it was the correct radius (other than the flat one) which for me meant making a plane with the opposite profile and making sure I could sharpen it at that radius consistently.
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I will look tmw I might have a spare roller I would sell if that helps ?
That would be great Matt, drop me an email or PM please.
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Durston mills used in my trade are very good and really well made. They could easily do the roller profiles you want.
A bat press would probably be an oversize barstard child of their rolling mills and their draw bench. :o
http://www.durston.co.uk/lan-multi/index.php (http://www.durston.co.uk/lan-multi/index.php)
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How's the presses doing guys?
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How's the presses doing guys?
Very slowly unfortunately, due to a few redesigns to reduce cost and problems material sourcing, Then my fabricator got ill (ok now thankfully). Still hoping to have it working before Christmas though. If anyone was to ask I would probably suggest sourcing one in its entirety from India or elsewhere as hell4leather also suggests provided your ok with screw compression design. Luckily I enjoy the design process and can deal with the engineering problemsbut I appreciate many wouldn't. It would also be more than likely cheaper even after taxes and import duties etc.
thanks for asking.
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Keep at it, and post some pics if possible :-)
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Keep at it, and post some pics if possible :-)
Cheers, and will do.
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Now I know your all bonkers on here
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The only other thing with the roller was making sure it was the correct radius (other than the flat one) which for me meant making a plane with the opposite profile and making sure I could sharpen it at that radius consistently.
Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but you're planning to sharpen the roller? Good quality stainless shouldn't need a lot of maintenance when being used with willow I wouldn't have thought?
Only just seen this thread, interesting to read through. Would be interested in seeing more shots of the full model if you're willing to post it? Agree that the bearings being mounted on the roller is a much simpler way to go, however if you are doing that then what is the need for the pillow blocks, particularly ones with inbuilt grease ports? Surely a pinch bolt assembly would perform the same job of holding the shaft in place with less complications for lower cost? Any design or stress calculation stuff don't hesitate to drop me a pm if anyone needs a hand, I'm a mechanical engineer by profession and it seems an interesting project! Guessing the major difficulties will be in the moving sled part of the press, how are you going about that?
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Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but you're planning to sharpen the roller? Good quality stainless shouldn't need a lot of maintenance when being used with willow I wouldn't have thought?
Lol
My fault for poor explanation. Of course there would be no need to sharpen the roller! I was referring to the problem of shaping the blade face profile to match that of the roller so you're not fitting a square peg into a round hole, so to speak. If, unlike me, you are lucky enough to have a profiler then you can simply machine the blade face to match the curve of the roller. Of course if you want a flat face profile, like many modern bats, profiling the face is not a problem, but I feel it's better to offer an option to any customer. For this reason I made my own concave plane so I can manually shape the face of the blade prior to pressing. Which of course means having to maintain a concave cutting edge which can be a bit of a tricky think to do.
Hope this makes sense.
The bat press has been modelled in AutoCAD Inventor so all the stress analysis is done done for you, but thanks for the offer.
The whole thing is designed around an old lathe that was originally used to clean up the inside of wooden barrels apparently and had been sat in the hedge for over 50 years according to the hedge owner. It took days to clean it up and get it moving again but is perfect for using as a slide for the press.
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Now I know your all bonkers on here
Naturally! Your point being? :)
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I didn't say that like it was a bad thing
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Now I know your all bonkers on here
Bonkers and bored!
Cricket seasons a long way off, nice to have a little winter project
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Lol
My fault for poor explanation. Of course there would be no need to sharpen the roller! I was referring to the problem of shaping the blade face profile to match that of the roller so you're not fitting a square peg into a round hole, so to speak. If, unlike me, you are lucky enough to have a profiler then you can simply machine the blade face to match the curve of the roller. Of course if you want a flat face profile, like many modern bats, profiling the face is not a problem, but I feel it's better to offer an option to any customer. For this reason I made my own concave plane so I can manually shape the face of the blade prior to pressing. Which of course means having to maintain a concave cutting edge which can be a bit of a tricky think to do.
Hope this makes sense.
The bat press has been modelled in AutoCAD Inventor so all the stress analysis is done done for you, but thanks for the offer.
The whole thing is designed around an old lathe that was originally used to clean up the inside of wooden barrels apparently and had been sat in the hedge for over 50 years according to the hedge owner. It took days to clean it up and get it moving again but is perfect for using as a slide for the press.
Ah I see, makes sense! I'd always assumed the concave face was pressed in so interesting to hear about using a plane to shape it. Sounds like a good little project, I'd love to do something like this but I'd have to learn how to make bats first...
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I am surprised no one has come up with a small portable press that is not expensive. Common all you mechanical engineers get to work. Don't need to know how to make bats just design something and sell there is a market for it
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I am surprised no one has come up with a small portable press that is not expensive. Common all you mechanical engineers get to work. Don't need to know how to make bats just design something and sell there is a market for it
It's an interesting idea Tush. The hardest parts would be weight and strength. There's no getting away from the fact that you need to apply a significant amount of force to the bat face in a uniform fashion at a constant rate .
While this could be done hydraulically, the structure of your press must be able to cope, which is quite a challenge if you are trying to make it small enough to be portable.
There is a reason why most presses are very solid!
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I am surprised no one has come up with a small portable press that is not expensive. Common all you mechanical engineers get to work. Don't need to know how to make bats just design something and sell there is a market for it
It's almost certainly true that many presses are over engineered many are based on historical designs in which stress calculations were not really considered and sizing was done on experience of the forces involved.
In my view, by far the main factor in cost is the bespoke nature of their construction. There will never be a mass market for these devices so costs will remain high as you are paying for the man hours used in manufacturing.
What's considered portable? The press I am having made is pretty small and can be broken down quite easily and each piece carried (not that far mind you).
I do remember an Australian manufacturer offering what looked like a relatively small , lightweight press for sale but forget where.
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It's almost certainly true that many presses are over engineered many are based on historical designs in which stress calculations were not really considered and sizing was done on experience of the forces involved.
In my view, by far the main factor in cost is the bespoke nature of their construction. There will never be a mass market for these devices so costs will remain high as you are paying for the man hours used in manufacturing.
What's considered portable? The press I am having made is pretty small and can be broken down quite easily and each piece carried (not that far mind you).
I do remember an Australian manufacturer offering what looked like a relatively small , lightweight press for sale but forget where.
Portable would be that you put it in a suitcase/trunk and take it on a plane with you, at least for me.
I am not an engineer, not even close to it :-[ , but I was picturing something like 2 or 4 small hydraulic cylinders with roller attached to them (and some digital sensors for pressure) 1 or 2 on each side that compress when connected and bring the roller down onto a removable flat base that holds the bat/cleft
probably a stupid idea, but thats what i do for a living,,i throw out outlandish ideas to engineers all day and challenge them to make it happen :D
You almost have to think of it like there is no press that exists in today's world, how are you going to design one using all the technology that is available to you, you can't think of existing designs as that could hamper your imagination/innovation
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The weight would be a factor in how portable it was
The roller alone is gonna be a fair lump of metal
The framework to hold the roller will have to be reasonably strong/ heavy?
A flat surface for the cleft to move on?
It all adds up
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The two critical pieces are the application of pressure to the face of the bat and supporting the willow to allow this pressure to be applied, without it getting damaged. That's your set of requirements.
I can imagine something relatively small which looks nothing like the existing presses on the market, and would be relatively cheap to construct and build.
But you'd need to fund it....!
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You got a drawing of what you have in mind? That you could post on here?
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Another consideration is how often it's gonna be used
Could lighter weaker materials be used?
Ie aluminium for the roller
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The two critical pieces are the application of pressure to the face of the bat and supporting the willow to allow this pressure to be applied, without it getting damaged. That's your set of requirements.
I can imagine something relatively small which looks nothing like the existing presses on the market, and would be relatively cheap to construct and build.
But you'd need to fund it....!
Not yet. I imagined it this afternoon. Would need to put my drawing skills to the test...
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http://vid1279.photobucket.com/albums/y534/SticklebackCricket/Bat press test_zpsowrklyyy.mp4 (http://vid1279.photobucket.com/albums/y534/SticklebackCricket/Bat press test_zpsowrklyyy.mp4)
(http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y534/SticklebackCricket/th_Bat%20press%20test_zpsowrklyyy.mp4) (http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y534/SticklebackCricket/Bat%20press%20test_zpsowrklyyy.mp4)
It's been a while but here is a video of my press working for the very first time a few weeks ago.
Although the video does not show a cleft being pressed, I can say it works fine and has press about 10 bats since the video was taken.
The video shows me gingerly checking the slide doesn't hit the end stops as there is no electronic limit switch attached yet. Although I don't look it I was pretty chuffed!
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Very nice mate
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Lovely bit of kit
Coupla weeks and mine should be up and running
Will post a vid
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Hello James .
Would it be possible for you to video a cleft being pressed?
It's a very impressive job you have done.
I recall you saying you had an £800/£900 budget, did you come close to achieving this?.
If the funds were limitless, would you have been able to streamline you're design to enable it to become even more portable?.
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This may seem a ridiculous request to those reading that are under the age of thirty, but, can someone please help to edit my last post so it has pound signs instead of £, thanks.
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This may seem a ridiculous request to those reading that are under the age of thirty, but, can someone please help to edit my last post so it has pound signs instead of £, thanks.
I don't think you can mate, that's just a forum quirk :)
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Hello James .
Would it be possible for you to video a cleft being pressed?
It's a very impressive job you have done.
I recall you saying you had an £800/£900 budget, did you come close to achieving this?.
If the funds were limitless, would you have been able to streamline you're design to enable it to become even more portable?.
Once I get a bit more proficient at it I'd love to video for you.
Budget wise, I'm afraid it was well over as well as time scales. The old adage 'estimate your price and double it' is more than apt here. My advice to anyone wanting a press 'BUY ONE' if you can.
Having said that I do have a press that I know every nut and bolt of which I'm sure will count for something.
I think making a press 'portable' would be possible but would depend on your definition of portable. I have already found that the limiting factor on my press is the motor. It is a 1.5kW 1400rpm single phase motor geared at about 6:1 and will stall if you try to press too hard (far too hard in reality - 5-6mm in one go but this was testing and experimentation) The mechanics of everything else are more than strong enough. However, with each pass of the cleft you need more force for the same amount of depth of compression because you are compacting the cleft each time - if that makes sense. Therefore, you still need to be able to achieve the same power of compression regardless.
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Once I get a bit more proficient at it I'd love to video for you.
Budget wise, I'm afraid it was well over as well as time scales. The old adage 'estimate your price and double it' is more than apt here. My advice to anyone wanting a press 'BUY ONE' if you can.
Having said that I do have a press that I know every nut and bolt of which I'm sure will count for something.
I think making a press 'portable' would be possible but would depend on your definition of portable. I have already found that the limiting factor on my press is the motor. It is a 1.5kW 1400rpm single phase motor geared at about 6:1 and will stall if you try to press too hard (far too hard in reality - 5-6mm in one go but this was testing and experimentation) The mechanics of everything else are more than strong enough. However, with each pass of the cleft you need more force for the same amount of depth of compression because you are compacting the cleft each time - if that makes sense. Therefore, you still need to be able to achieve the same power of compression regardless.
That makes perfect sense, thanks for your reply.
There are factors to bear in mind here which you can not measure in a monetary sense.
You must feel a huge amount of pride in designing and seeing this through to its completion.
It really is impressive.
Sometimes you can start a task and get to a point where you wish you had never started, but to have the drive and gumption to see it through can be character building.
Great job .
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That makes perfect sense, thanks for you reply.
There are factors to bear in mind here which you can not measure in a monetary sense.
You must feel a huge amount of pride in designing and seeing this through to its completion.
It really is impressive.
Sometimes you can start a task and get to a point where you wish you had never started, but to have the drive and gumption to see it through can be character building.
Great job .
Thanks for you comments, they really are very much appreciated. Patience/stubbornness, call it what you will, was certainly a requirement. That and a very understanding/supporting wife.
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Looks brilliant, well done 👍
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Been off the forum for a while and am just catching up. Well done with this, looks like it runs great.
Stalling the motor is not a good thing for the motor but does mean you're less likely to overpress a cleft.
If you're after more torque, you'll most likely have to hunt around for a 6 or 8 pole motor, probably 3 phase are more common. They run slower but have higher torque.
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Been off the forum for a while and am just catching up. Well done with this, looks like it runs great.
Stalling the motor is not a good thing for the motor but does mean you're less likely to overpress a cleft.
If you're after more torque, you'll most likely have to hunt around for a 6 or 8 pole motor, probably 3 phase are more common. They run slower but have higher torque.
Thanks! It's been pressing fine and has no problems at all with sensible use. The stall was when I wanted to see how far it would go which was about 6mm in one pass! Which was ridiculous obviously.
I only have single phase and the gearing was designed around the 1400 rpm to give a 20 second pass which gives about 60Nm torque on the lead screw. Higher pole motors as you know will slow this down too much IMO.
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Great work there lads.
Noone had the idea of using springs and a wooden roller. If I had the space I would defo try one.
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Oldish thread, but hey ho
Finally sorted an old lathe to convert into a press and have installed in my tiny shed today
Will post pics etc of the build as I go, for anyone interested
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Good stuff!! Look forward to seeing it progress 👍🏼
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Pictures of @Northern monkey press
(http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r659/Simonalfie5/IMG_3519_zps1lzzl2qa.jpg) (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/Simonalfie5/media/IMG_3519_zps1lzzl2qa.jpg.html)(http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r659/Simonalfie5/IMG_3520_zps5cutwake.jpg) (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/Simonalfie5/media/IMG_3520_zps5cutwake.jpg.html)(http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r659/Simonalfie5/IMG_3521_zpsqfpcizdj.jpg) (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/Simonalfie5/media/IMG_3521_zpsqfpcizdj.jpg.html)
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Cheers Simon
The old boy, I got the lathe off, said it had come off a submarine !ha
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Cheers Simon
The old boy, I got the lathe off, said it had come off a submarine !ha
Why use a lathe? Is it just to drive a worm gear to move the press bed?
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Why use a lathe? Is it just to drive a worm gear to move the press bed?
Why not use the lathe frame theirs no right or wrong way is there
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Yeah
To be honest, it was the easy way out
I do have another kind of press, which I'd used a mobile tyre fitting machine as the bed etc
But it weighs more than the lathe bed! And I wanted to be able to string a handle too, sort of an all in one machine
And I love lathes
If I could get one cheap enough, I'd make one out of a cnc universal milling machine
Maybe if one pops up on eBay