Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: RSpall on September 14, 2014, 07:12:41 PM
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Has KP had his day?
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Has Cook had his day?
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Yes.
I'm afraid you can't as a batsmen just rock up and play T20 sporadically and expect buckets of runs, all the players who have retired to take the payday over recent years haven't done it. The batsmen who play day in day out score the runs.
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Are we talking about Kevin Pietersen ...
Or Kieron Pollard ...
Or Karl Pilkington?
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He just doesn't seem to have as much interest in the game as he once did. He's in the twilight and cricket is firmly now his job and a pay cheque it seems. I'll expect him to retire properly after 2015, and just do a Mike Hussey of playing occasionally across the world in T20 tournaments. Money wise he's set.
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Has Cook had his day?
Joe Root isn't ready just yet!
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As someone said about him not having any interest anymore, does it not take the Michael slightly when someone just plays the shorter format whenever he wants to make money? Reduces the chance of someone younger and coming through the chance on the main stage.
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As someone said about him not having any interest anymore, does it not take the Michael slightly when someone just plays the shorter format whenever he wants to make money? Reduces the chance of someone younger and coming through the chance on the main stage.
It doesn't matter what any of us say on here, I reckon that Surrey would overall sell more tickets to a T20 game if Kevin Pietersen's name is on the team sheet. Are Surrey really that wrong to use that to their advantage?
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I guess not if you look at it that way. The same as flintoff playing for lancs. But do you want a bit more money or to develop better cricketers and give them a chance? How will talent be found if they give oldies a game that can't buy a run?
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The more people that are watching cricket the better it is for the game. If KP still puts bums on seats he's worth his place, even if his performances become more sporadic.
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The more people watch/have an interest the better for the game. Bringing through the odd 'youngster' is irrelevant largely. So KP and Freddie are more key than the youngster they are keeping out.
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It's why I thought Flintoff's return contract was a really interesting point to see him being paid per spectator - will this become a more common incentive offer for players in the future? His presence, as with the likes of KP, in an average county game is almost certain to bring more people in which makes it a win win for player and club.
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Would any of the current England xi being in the fans like KP or Freddie etc??
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Would any of the current England xi being in the fans like KP or Freddie etc??
Jos Butler possibly
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Yes for sure. I think if international players were playing in their county side it would bring more spectators in. But how often do the internationals actually play for their county these days?
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Shock horror.... KP writes book, senses trouble and gets Surrey to release him... Everyone else is to blame, go and hear it in a book shop near you:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/786579.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/786579.html)
Still free to gob off down under, India, global T20 and a soap box near you!
PS he was just misunderstood and it was someone else's fault... or have we all heard this before.
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Shock horror.... KP writes book, senses trouble and gets Surrey to release him... Everyone else is to blame, go and hear it in a book shop near you:
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/786579.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/786579.html[/url])
Still free to gob off down under, India, global T20 and a soap box near you!
PS he was just misunderstood and it was someone else's fault... or have we all heard this before.
I dont blame him getting us (Surrey) to release him. I wouldnt have been surprised if he had stayed contracted with us that the ECB would purely out of spite block him from playing the IPL which they would have been entitled to do. I can see why people dont like him but the ECb have got this whole situation completely wrong.
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The interesting thing will be whether he actually plays for Surrey again however :D.
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I think there is a strong probability that he wont play in England again.
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The interesting thing will be whether he actually plays for Surrey again however :D.
apparently we are going to sit down with him in the new year and discuss. Hes been good to us and us very good to him so there's a chance, really hope he can play some 4 day stuff for us next year.
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apparently we are going to sit down with him in the new year and discuss. Hes been good to us and us very good to him so there's a chance, really hope he can play some 4 day stuff for us next year.
Except for the bit where he wasn't selected for the CC game ;).
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No excerpts from his book yet? Shocked and chagrined. :D
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Except for the bit where he wasn't selected for the CC game ;).
Stewie got that completely wrong, KP was willing to play and we still mathematically had a chance of going up . A fair number of members raised their concerns with Stewart for not playing him.
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Stewie got that completely wrong, KP was willing to play and we still mathematically had a chance of going up . A fair number of members raised their concerns with Stewart for not playing him.
The tweet staying something along the lines of 'little chance of promotion so I'm not going to play' didn't quite seem to make him sound so keen :D.
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Will be interesting to see what the fan reaction is after the book. He needs some pretty headline making stuff in there to make all the publicity worth it and if he doesn't blow the lid off the English team in last winters ashes I can see many fans seeing him for what he really is.
Even with appearances in these t20 leagues he is going to need some scores soon or I can see people not paying him as much
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Stewie got that completely wrong, KP was willing to play and we still mathematically had a chance of going up . A fair number of members raised their concerns with Stewart for not playing him.
Stewart had the best interests of Surrey at heart, KP couldn't careless about anyone but himself
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Think whether they re-sign him or not will be a sign of whether he's 'fit in' (or as much as he can) there or pissed everyone off again.
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I suspect kp not be playing for surrey was a financial thing. Maybe he gets a retainer plus appearance money and stewie didn't think the cost was worth it.
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Stewart had the best interests of Surrey at heart, KP couldn't careless about anyone but himself
Given he could barely get it off the square in the T20 what good would he have been in proper cricket.
I echo Buzz, I bet he doesn't play any cricket in England again, let alone stuff that lasts longer than a good family Sunday lunch....
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Given he could barely get it off the square in the T20 what good would he have been in proper cricket.
I echo Buzz, I bet he doesn't play any cricket in England again, let alone stuff that lasts longer than a good family Sunday lunch....
If he doesn't then it'll be a shame. He's top draw t20 when he's playing enough crixket, he's pretty ordinary currently as he's not. Sad end of he doesn't play cc or at least all the short format stuff
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Given he could barely get it off the square in the T20 what good would he have been in proper cricket.
Have you seen us bat recently?
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KP spilts opinion like no other on this dorum,down my cricket club and just about everywhere else!
I will probably buy the book and have seen some of the greatest innings from an england player watching him
If you have a look at the daily mail sports section on line paul Newman asks the five questions any fan wants to know
You do have to balance it as paul Newman does not like KP but it's worth a look
In my opinion england did the right thing letting him go and then made a PR dogs dinner of it..
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KP spilts opinion like no other on this dorum,down my cricket club and just about everywhere else!
I will probably buy the book and have seen some of the greatest innings from an england player watching him
If you have a look at the daily mail sports section on line paul Newman asks the five questions any fan wants to know
You do have to balance it as paul Newman does not like KP but it's worth a look
In my opinion england did the right thing letting him go and then made a PR dogs dinner of it..
That Paul Newman article is ridiculous - he just guesses what happened in certain circumstances to fit around his hate for KP
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I pre ordered his book, im hoping its full of fireworks
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I pre ordered his book, im hoping its full of fireworks
I've had it on pre order since it went live on Amazon.
As he's waited until the end of the confidentiality agreement thing and terminated his contract with the ECB prior to it's release I'm expecting controversy galore and everything to be revealed (from KP's POV anyway) in there!
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my dad is actually at the launch of the book this week and there is a 1 hour q+a so if anything of interest is said i will post it here
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Going myself on Tuesday birthday present from the Mrs, should be a good night.
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Pre ordered. Hopefully shows the ECB for what they are.
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when is the book actually out? Ive pre ordered from Amazon and they say Thursday but i've seen it may be out before then?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11142212/Kevin-Pietersen-exclusive-interview-The-truth-about-Englands-bullying-culture.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11142212/Kevin-Pietersen-exclusive-interview-The-truth-about-Englands-bullying-culture.html)
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Looks like prior is going to be very upset... I always thought he was well liked but kp has him on toast here...
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Thanks for posting this.
Prior?!! Bowlers, I sort of guessed but had a very different image of Prior.
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11142212/Kevin-Pietersen-exclusive-interview-The-truth-about-Englands-bullying-culture.html[/url] ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11142212/Kevin-Pietersen-exclusive-interview-The-truth-about-Englands-bullying-culture.html[/url])
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That was a long interview. If he can have it his way...he would have a special place in hell for Prior.
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Few bits of interest but pretty much what I exoected. Hope the book goes on to elaborate as to who these "senior players" who told him things it backed his opinion are, somehow I suspect it won't
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He will be on bbc breakfast tomorrow morning.
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I'm fine with him telling his side of the story and will most likely read the book, but take into account its one side. It's not gospel and forgive me if I'm very wary of him telling the truth with Piers Morgan as his Rottweiler...
I've heard on very good authority, from someone who's seen the fallout of KPs behaviour over the last couple of years post-textgate that the texts were nothing compared to some of the stuff that was going on. Stuff that was truly unforgivable. I've not heard details, but I have heard of the effect he had on some individuals within the team on a personal level.
I think the team's better of without him as the person, certainly not the player. Its a real shame that he hasn't done himself any favours since by becoming a (poor) T20 mercenary. I wish he'd knuckled down to four day cricket more to really embarrass the selectors and their shockingly-poor management of the situation. I get the impression that his high profile appearances at events and closer relationship with Piers Morgan is not the way to go if, as he said last week on twitter, he wants back in to the England team (though that comment elevates him to the position of martyr once the book comes out - its all a finely tuned PR exercise from him). We have to remember that professional sportsmen aren't simply robots who can go out and play on demand without fault. They get elevated to this superhero status when the reality is they suffer the same doubts, insecurities and personal issues that we do. Saying KP should be played and everyone else live with it is simply not an option. In my opinion.
If we're being critical of Paul Newman's dislike and biased writing, don't fall into the same trap of making 'facts' fit personal opinions. I don't think we will hear the whole truth from those directly involved (KP, ECB, Cook, Prior). I tend to view autobiographies as if they were a trial - can the claims be validated by more than the 'witness'? Are his sources credible? Opinions and situations like this make for explosive reading and book sales, but they are only one side of the story. Its not necessarily wholly accurate.
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Is the book out tomorrow or on Wednesday? I have it on Amazon preorder with Amazon Prime and it's saying I won't get the book until Thursday. There won't be any point getting it late, I'll have heard about all the juicy bits by then!
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We have to remember that professional sportsmen aren't simply robots who can go out and play on demand without fault. They get elevated to this superhero status when the reality is they suffer the same doubts, insecurities and personal issues that we do. Saying KP should be played and everyone else live with it is simply not an option. In my opinion.
I don't have much sympathy for KP as a person, he often appears to be his own worst enemy. I go with the view that he's been on a gradual decline for a while however still merited his place in the England side when it all blew up. I think it would have been incredibly hard for him to have performed to a decent level this year given the character assassination he has suffered (rightly or wrongly), however much he'd played. He is clearly someone whose ego needs massaging and he'd have needed an incredibly thick skin not to have had his self-confidence massively affected by what's gone on and that must have affected his performance, maybe even terminally. Nobody wins out of this mess (except for the book's publisher I guess...)
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Is the book being serialized in a paper?
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Few bits of interest but pretty much what I exoected. Hope the book goes on to elaborate as to who these "senior players" who told him things it backed his opinion are, somehow I suspect it won't
Through deduction, it can surely only be Bell & Trott?
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I wonder how much involvement Piers Morgan had in this book. It feels a lot like a very long Daily Mirror story....
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I'm going to Kindle it Thursday.
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I'm by no means KP's biggest fan but from what I've read so far I can't help but think there's something in his claims, especially after seeing this:
"Chris Tremlett @ChrisTremlett33 · 10 hours ago
Glad @KP24 has finally been able to give his side of the story. People can now make an informed opinion of what went on in the dressing room"
If there was nothing in this why would Tremmers be writing something like this?
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I'm by no means KP's biggest fan but from what I've read so far I can't help but think there's something in his claims, especially after seeing this:
"Chris Tremlett @ChrisTremlett33 · 10 hours ago
Glad @KP24 has finally been able to give his side of the story. People can now make an informed opinion of what went on in the dressing room"
If there was nothing in this why would Tremmers be writing something like this?
hes always been in KP's camp, teammates at both Hampshire and Surrey. More importantly he isn't an England player anymore so will be free to speak his mind. Read somewhere that KP and carberry fell out at Sydney but not seen any mentions of that so far
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There's a few things on it, something along the lines of KP was questioning if Carbs was good enough (Personally I rate Carberry, thought he got a raw deal) whilst he was batting, and then exclaimed loudly to Bairstow across the balcony "Who else should we be looking at in county cricket"...
I know KP and Tremlett were mates but even coming and saying something like that is a pretty big deal, if there wasn't some truth in it I couldn't see a fellow professional stick his neck on the line...
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Personally, I think this is the KP show and whatever is in the book will be pretty one sided. It should all be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
I don't believe for one minute that there wouldn't have been others who would have raised the issue of "bullying" in the England dressing room, and if it was such an issue, why wait till you've been away from the England camp for 8 months? Why not raise it at the time as an issue with your employer? Because that doesn't sell books and make you money, which we know is very important to KP.
I'm sure there will be some truth in there, but I'm also absolutely certain that it won't be the whole truth, so while it may be a very entertaining read, I think I'll reserve judgement until I've heard both sides of the story.
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Couple of bits I read in the telegraph were pretty lame. Stuff like apologising to the bowler when you drop a catch seemed to get right up KP's nose but 99% of club cricketers do it as second nature.
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Couple of bits I read in the telegraph were pretty lame. Stuff like apologising to the bowler when you drop a catch seemed to get right up KP's nose but 99% of club cricketers do it as second nature.
I think it's the way they're demanding the apology in the changing room after the game, on this part I fully agree with KP - Forcing players to apologise to them as if they're demi-gods and never make their own mistakes is ridiculous (if this is indeed true of course), would be interesting to see what happens when all the bowlers get out for 0 - are they expected to get on their hands and knees and beg the batsman for forgiveness?? I doubt it...
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[sarcasm]
If what we hear here is true, I'm actually with the bowlers. Over the last 12-18 months, the batting has been shoddy and awful and the bowlers have not had anything to bowl at, so they had every right to expect the fielders to step up and participate in the game fully, rather than wandering around in the field looking for someone who wants an autograph (surely not KP). It's understandable that the bowlers would spend a lot of time in most matches royally fed up with the batsmen who seemed unable to bat for the two days the opposition were managing. Yes, they should be apologising when they drop catches. They should be grovelling....
[/sarcasm]
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Anyone listening to the interview on Radio 5 Live right now? As I'm at work, I can't, but I'll be downloading the podcast later for a listen on the way home.
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it all points to atrocious management from the ECB.
KP is going to lose friends from this, and he will care about this.
I do believe the bullying bit personally.
note he denies saying he called Strauss a doos and denies he said him or me about peter Moores. but I can also see how what he says can be written to sound differently.
it remains all very sad.
oh for a decent captain...
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I can believe there was/is an underhanded culture in the England dressing room, I am not however convinced about his allegations against Matt Prior, personally. Swann has come out and said that Prior "fought tooth and nail" to keep him, I also recall an interview with Michael Vaughn describing Prior as a nice lad etc, attacking one of your ex-colleagues publicly is a bit poor taste in my opinion.
The words that keeping coming back to me are; "It's not easy being me."
I wonder why that is Kev? I suspect it's very much a two way street.
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everything ive read on the KP reintegration was down to Prior and Cook persuading Strauss and Flower to have him back after the events of 2012
now Prior is the devil himself, hard to believe how it could turn round so quickly
I do believe there was some sort of 'clique' in that dressing room but you have to balance KP's views with the facts
England had their most successful period in living memory under the coaching of Flower
anyone on here who grew up supporting England thru the 80's knows just how bad we were
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It seems like it's probably all six of one, half a dozen of the other. Chances are the bowlers and Prior did take the mick out of people, and could be construed as bullying, however KP doesn't seem to be the sort to laugh at himself so would probably take 'banter' (Lord I hate that word) as a personal insult.
But also, if the majority of the the dressing room thinl you're a Gentleman Sausage, then chances are, you guessed it, you are a Gentleman Sausage!
Still, got it on pre-order and looking forward to reading it. Fear i may end up on KP's side, as i've always though Matt Prior came across as a bit smug, and to be honest, i don't like bowlers shouting at fielders either, and i'm not playing on international tv (well not all the time anyway ;) )
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(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd117/fake_street_spirit/Ned_zps4a4251f3.jpg) (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/fake_street_spirit/media/Ned_zps4a4251f3.jpg.html)
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I read Michael Vaughn's article and it echoes my sentiments about this situation. There is truth to KP's allegations against some of the team members but KP himself has made mistakes. I have a vague recollection of the Twitter account episode but did not know that the prank was this elaborate. I can see how something like this would adversely affect a player's mindset.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/29517817 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/29517817)
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I read Michael Vaughn's article and it echoes my sentiments about this situation. There is truth to KP's allegations against some of the team members but KP himself has made mistakes. I have a vague recollection of the Twitter account episode but did not know that the prank was this elaborate. I can see how something like this would adversely affect a player's mindset.
[url]http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/29517817[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/29517817[/url])
Vaughan said he had encountered a similar situation in his early years at Yorkshire, where he would "hate" fielding because he was "scared" of making a mistake.
Lol, mirrors my feelings at times during the past few years. Very nearly declared myself unavailable for selection over it
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Some of the stuff he is saying happen in a lot of top teams. I am very sure that during the legendary Aussie teams (Borders, Waughs, Warne) eras that there would have been examples of "bullying" and "cliques". Can't say Id be very keen to go near Lillee if I had dropped a catch off him or Warne or McGrath for that matter. I don't think they would be forced to apologise but if you didn't id say you would have been told too by an older statesman of the team, at a time away from other team mates (As someone else said it is expected you apologise).
KP sounds like a spoiled, precious child with these comments. 18 months ago England were untouchable. They were playing great cricket and people were happy. Start losing and it makes these comments shine. Imagine if KP came out with this if england were number 1 in the world right now.
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KP dossier is out. Way to start WC prep. :(
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At the book launch now pretty decent turnout. Lots of press, on one of the tables ear wigging.
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Looks like there is now an ECB leak coming out on the ashes tour
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What's the common denominator of KP's fall outs in South Africa, Notts, Hampshire, Surrey and England ?
KP
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Ecb really are inept. KP has acted like a prat but their "leaks" make them look unprofessional. Worried about piers Morgan's tweets? Really? They really weren't focused on the cricket were they!
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love or hate kp , the way things are being handled by the ecb is laughable
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love or hate kp , the way things are being handled by the ecb is laughable
They are such a joke. They are a cricket board, responsible for cricket in an bride country but instead or preparing "internal due diligence" documents that include one of their players complimenting another player on his south African accent and that some idiot on Twitter was having a go at the captain. Beggars belief really. The couldn't even spell cooks name properly
Think a lot of what KP is saying is true but he's also a prize idiot for his role in all of this. The ECB appointed a new CEO today, he must be thinking what have I got myself into!
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here is the original dossier article before it was taken down.
if this dossier is a fake, I would live to see the original..
ESPNcricinfo is in possession of a legal document
that provides a clear insight into the ECB state of
mind as it contends with the fallout from the end
of Kevin Pietersen 's England career.
The existence of one or more Pietersen
documents has been a subject of contention since
Pietersen walked off the field in Sydney last
January for the last time in an England shirt. This
one covers the Ashes series and illustrates how
he has been cast as a serial offender whose
alleged behaviour undermined the authority of the
coach and captain.
Pietersen himself refers in his autobiography to
being alerted within days of the end of the Ashes
series to the existence of what he prefers to
dismiss as an "imaginary dossier".
This is not quite the dirty dossier the cricket
world hankers after. It was, however, drawn up to
assist the ECB legal team. It outlines the
breakdown in relationships between Pietersen and
the England team director, Andy Flower, which is
forthrightly described in the autobiography.
The ECB stated: "It is simply part of a privileged
legal document, produced by the ECB's lawyers
compiling information as part of the ECB's
internal due diligence ahead of the release of the
Kevin Pietersen book."
It is recorded that Pietersen "ranted" at Flower
after the Melbourne Test - a conversation he has
recorded in some detail in his autobiography. But
Pietersen has been less forthcoming about the
document's allegation that he described Alastair
Cook 's captaincy as "weak" and "tactically inept".
In that same heated meeting, Graeme Swann,
who has dismissed Pietersen's autobiography as
"a work of fiction", is allegedly described as "a
c***".
The document then solemnly observes that Flower
did not speak to Pietersen during the final Test in
Sydney or, indeed, for the rest of the tour.
The five-page document, marked STRICTLY
PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL, has reached
ESPNcricinfo independently and seeks to
assemble evidence of Pietersen's rebellious and
agitated state of mind as England careered to a
5-0 defeat in the Test series. There are sound
reasons to regard it as playing a genuine part in
the negotiations.
Elements of this document are now being leaked
into the public domain and are believed to be
only part of a much larger analysis of Pietersen's
allegedly recalcitrant behaviour during the final
years of his England career which seems to
counter his self-portrayal as a victimised player
bullied by an England clique.
The charge sheet against Pietersen is unlikely to
bring unity. Some will contend that the ECB had
assembled convincing reasons to end an
association with a player who had clearly become
a liability, whereas others will regard it as
essentially a petty victimisation of Pietersen
which fails to disguise a sorry failure of man
management.
As with the reaction to his autobiography, the
dividing lines are likely to remain as deep as
ever.
The document gives a flavour of the clash
between Flower's severe managerial regime and
Pietersen's more freewheeling approach to life
when it considers an incident several days before
the second Test in Adelaide.
"Upon arrival in Adelaide for the Second Test, AF
[Andy Flower] gave express instructions to players
not to stay out late and not to give the scandal-
voracious press any ammunition, which KP
immediately disobeyed by taking out two young
players drinking with him until late (an incident
which was front page news in the Adelaide press
the following day)."
With England 2-0 down before the Perth Test, the
dossier earnestly records that "an England team
physiotherapist" told Flower that if England lost
the Test his knee was "really going to be playing
up". This is presumably taken to be the language
of insubordination.
Further charges follow, not all of them
immediately seeming of import: criticism of
Michael Carberry's ability, a complimentary
comment about Gary Ballance's South African
accent and, a sin that has gained unusual
publicity, and a habit which he explains in his
book that he picked from his father, an
unappealing tendency after being dismissed
towards casually whistling.
Even Piers Morgan gets a mention. "It riled the
team and management that KP allowed Piers
Morgan to belittle AC [Alastair Cook] and the
team on social media. When asked by some of
his team mates to get Piers Morgan to stop
tweeting about the team, KP laughed at the
players and told them to get a thicker skin."
The report then refers to the severance of
Pietersen's contract with the observation that
"the team needs to move on in a different
direction with an emphasis on a strong, team-
orientated culture."
This story was updated at 1750 on October 7 to
clarify the nature of the document and 1850 with
the ECB statement
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This sort of thing has happened dozens of times in the past. Gatting, Gower, Botham, etc etc all had their England careers finished early due to similar issues. Its what happens in sport. Footballers are moved on all the time when they become disruptive or don't meet the team ethic. I don't see what the big deal is, other than the ECB could have handled it slightly better, but they didn't, move on, there will be another KP around the corner.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04kg0b9 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04kg0b9)
I'm not sure what to make of KP here, he's either genuine or deserves an oscar for this!
Sounds like he's genuine to me.
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This sort of thing has happened dozens of times in the past. Gatting, Gower, Botham, etc etc all had their England careers finished early due to similar issues. Its what happens in sport. Footballers are moved on all the time when they become disruptive or don't meet the team ethic. I don't see what the big deal is, other than the ECB could have handled it slightly better, but they didn't, move on, there will be another KP around the corner.
Slightly is a bit of an understatement!
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[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04kg0b9[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04kg0b9[/url])
I'm not sure what to make of KP here, he's either genuine or deserves an oscar for this!
Sounds like he's genuine to me.
Thought he came across quite well until the question to aggers at the very end when he acted like a teenager
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Slightly is a bit of an understatement!
How would you have handled it ?
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Thought he came across quite well until the question to aggers at the very end when he acted like a teenager
I haven't got to the end yet so don't know about that. :-[
In what I've listened to he's come across very well, but some of the things he's said seemed to be pre meditated and evasive e.g "not knowing" who he was messaging during text gate "I never keep texts".
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How would you have handled it ?
I wouldn't be leaking stuff to the press, I wouldn't have let downtown go on TMS and break a confidentiality agreement. I'd have paid KP up and let him say his piece sooner rather than overshadow a team for 9 months or so and then drop this bomb. More importantly I'd remember that the ecb's are responsible for the game of cricket in England, not popularity or legal games with a player. They should be promoting the game and preventing damage to their and the games image in this country not causing more damage.
Every time they've tried to call KP and his entourage bluff and play them at their own game they've managed to mess it up royally. Either their PR/comma team are completely inept or they think this is a good way to portray an organisation in public
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I haven't got to the end yet so don't know about that. :-[
In what I've listened to he's come across very well, but some of the things he's said seemed to be pre meditated and evasive e.g "not knowing" who he was messaging during text gate "I never keep texts".
Bbc 5 live tweeted a video of the end bit, find that and watch it, he doesn't come across well IMO. Agree on the texts thing, I woukdnt expect him to recall it verbatim but you'd know a bit more than the general theme of the conversation. I wish he'd also name these senior players he keeps referring to who backed him up.
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ECB are being made to look like fools. Doesn't suprise me as its a bunch of suits with no care for the game of cricket. Sad state of affairs and will harm the game in the uk. At a time when the numbers playing is dropping they need to be promoting the game in any way, not worrying about their jobs, pensions and pay packets and jobs for the boys.
Sad times. To people who just say move on. That's what we do when we sweep it under the carpet.. We need to hold people or organisations to account.. Not just let hem off with a nice pay out etc
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I don't know the in's and out's and like I said this happens all the time in every sport played. I don't see what the big deal is really. Sport is a game of opinions. Managers/Coaches live and die by those decisions so its down to them to make the decisions as they think fit for the team. Flower had earned the right to get rid of him if he thought that was best for the team.
Anyone with Piers Morgan in their corner immediately looses credibility in my opinion.
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Bbc 5 live tweeted a video of the end bit, find that and watch it, he doesn't come across well IMO. Agree on the texts thing, I woukdnt expect him to recall it verbatim but you'd know a bit more than the general theme of the conversation. I wish he'd also name these senior players he keeps referring to who backed him up.
Just got to the end of the interview, he had been great up to that point, then he acts like Kevin from Kevin & Perry rather than Kevin Peitersen! (Or maybe he reveals his true colours?)
I'm not sure if his interview was a well practiced PR campaign to promote his book, or if he truly was genuine in what he said. Either way there have been 2 outcomes, 1 that he seems very petulant when people ask questions he does not like/want to answer or make points that show him in a bad light, and 2 people are talking about him (which this thread coming alive again proves) which will in turn hopefully (for him) boost book sales.
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ECB are being made to look like fools. Doesn't suprise me as its a bunch of suits with no care for the game of cricket. Sad state of affairs and will harm the game in the uk. At a time when the numbers playing is dropping they need to be promoting the game in any way, not worrying about their jobs, pensions and pay packets and jobs for the boys.
Sad times. To people who just say move on. That's what we do when we sweep it under the carpet.. We need to hold people or organisations to account.. Not just let hem off with a nice pay out etc
Who's getting a pay out ?
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Except, pro cricketer, the ecb isn't a charity, it is very much like the rfu and while sport has become more professional, the organisations running it don't seem to have.
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This sort of thing has happened dozens of times in the past. Gatting, Gower, Botham, etc etc all had their England careers finished early due to similar issues. Its what happens in sport. Footballers are moved on all the time when they become disruptive or don't meet the team ethic. I don't see what the big deal is, other than the ECB could have handled it slightly better, but they didn't, move on, there will be another KP around the corner.
What's the common denominator with the ECB's fall out with Gatting, Gower, Botham etc etc...
Every month is a new episode in the ECB showing themselves to be, as an organisation, more unprofessional, incompetant and damaging than any individual could ever be. Quite an achievement really.
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We have two camps and it's sad to see cricket fans (England ones anyway - which is all that matters in the uk) split so much. It's literally 5050 as well. Those who see ok as messed up but something wasn't right and the ECB line.
Sad as it is, the ECB need to be cleared out and live up to what they are there for... The good of the game not their over paid suits.
KP needs to play cc and score runs, show how good he was/is.. And stop hanging around with piers bloody morgan
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What's the common denominator with the ECB's fall out with Gatting, Gower, Botham etc etc...
Every month is a new episode in the ECB showing themselves to be, as an organisation, more unprofessional, incompetant and damaging than any individual could ever be. Quite an achievement really.
True. These big organisations are not going to get everything right. Look at the FA or cricket Australia just 2 years ago.
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Worth also pointing out that when this dossier refers to KP taking 'two young players out to drink', it was reported at the time as being Broad and Bairstow. I wouldn't call Broad young, and both have more than enough tour experience to make their own decisions.
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So Broad, the T20 captain and arguably leader of the attack is now a "young player" and Bairstow who's been in and around the squad for years is too?
Will the ECB also be realeasing a book called "How not to do PR"?
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The piece regarding him being told to instruct Piers Morgan is also embarrassing, and perhaps provides an insight into the regimented nature of the dressing room. As much as people may dislike Piers, he is surely free to give his opinions on whatever he wants.
Anyone with some degree of intellect that this 'breakdown' of the English dressing room, of which there is surely no doubt that it happened (blame who you will for it) arose in 2012, when KP was the only player to attract an IPL bid, and a lucrative one at that. Whilst Swann, Anderson and Prior failed to attract any interest, and from then on things appeared to go downhill
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Worth also pointing out that when this dossier refers to KP taking 'two young players out to drink', it was reported at the time as being Broad and Bairstow. I wouldn't call Broad young, and both have more than enough tour experience to make their own decisions.
And surely this raises questions about the comments relating to who ran the dressing room?
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Worth also pointing out that when this dossier refers to KP taking 'two young players out to drink', it was reported at the time as being Broad and Bairstow. I wouldn't call Broad young, and both have more than enough tour experience to make their own decisions.
Ben Stokes was one of them!
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We have two camps and it's sad to see cricket fans (England ones anyway - which is all that matters in the uk) split so much. It's literally 5050 as well. Those who see ok as messed up but something wasn't right and the ECB line.
Sad as it is, the ECB need to be cleared out and live up to what they are there for... The good of the game not their over paid suits.
KP needs to play cc and score runs, show how good he was/is.. And stop hanging around with piers bloody morgan
I think they are just as bad as each other. Be nice to talk about cricket again woukdnt it?
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http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/england-stars-kevin-pietersen-and-stuart-broad-take-early-drinks-break-in-convict-free-zone-adelaide/story-fni6uo1m-1226773535225?nk=f56622b8ee34044c8b520cc49205f83f
This one is KP and Broad ...
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[url]http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/england-stars-kevin-pietersen-and-stuart-broad-take-early-drinks-break-in-convict-free-zone-adelaide/story-fni6uo1m-1226773535225?nk=f56622b8ee34044c8b520cc49205f83f[/url] ([url]http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/england-stars-kevin-pietersen-and-stuart-broad-take-early-drinks-break-in-convict-free-zone-adelaide/story-fni6uo1m-1226773535225?nk=f56622b8ee34044c8b520cc49205f83f[/url])
This one is KP and Broad ...
4 days before a match, behaving themselves and mixing with the locals..christ I'd give them a pat on the back.
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Book dispatched, hopefully it arrived tomorrow!
That's my weekend sorted :D
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Hopefully it'll be downloaded by the time I wake up I the morning
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Working but had a quick glance at the later chapters. Decided to start on chapter 24 and KP's straight into a moan about Finn's handling and straight onto a flower moan. Hope the rest of the book isn't like this lol. Now it's downloaded (£7.47 at amazon for kindle) I'm off to charge it up. Could be a long night.
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Going to a Groupon signing/launch thing on Monday.
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Picking my Pre-Order up from Waterstones this Lunchtime. Should be done by the weekend!
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Mine was waiting for me on the Kindle App when I woke up. Part of me hates the fact that all the moaning and marketing means I've paid for a book that puts dollars in KPs pocket.
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I'm clinging to the hope that once the cost of the book itself, the retailer's cut, the publishers cut, the ghost writers cut and tax are taken out, i'm only giving him a couple of quid.
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I'm gonna wait till its in the charity shop. Would rather give them my fiver.
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Books arrived, he couldve at least had a shave before they took the picture on the cover!!
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Bless Athers. Interesting take. Probably good sense too...
Lord’s, last week. Typical corporate function. The Long Room. Two hundred people. Andrew Strauss and Graeme Swann, the guests. Dinner, ask them a few questions, polite conversation, decent folk at the table. Job done. Nice and easy.
Beforehand, a question from a guest as we take pre-dinner drinks in the bar. Can we have a look at the England dressing room? Sure, no problem. Nip up the two flights of stairs, past the portraits of Gooch, Vaughan, Stewart. Through the door that says admittance by permission of the captain only, and into the hallowed place.
Save for the honours board that marks the Lord’s dressing room as special, it is like any other. Seats around the perimeter. Pegs for clothes. Huge table in the middle for autographs, sandwiches, coffee, tea. A physio’s table. Washbasin in the corner. Nothing else. Bit cramped. I point out my old chair, next to where the Big Cheese, Matt Prior, once put his bat through a window. Used to sit there. OK, he says. We leave. I sense he’s disappointed.
It’s what people always want to see at Lord’s. Not the Long Room. Not the media centre. Not the restaurants or bars. Not the MCC committee room or the library. The dressing room. The England dressing room. What’s it like, they say? Just like any other dressing room, I say. Uh? Oh.
What they really want to know, of course, is what goes on in the dressing room. What goes on in the middle of a Test match? How do people behave? What’s it like? Ah, that’s different. It ain’t normal. There’s a reason why the cameras aren’t allowed in there. There’s a reason there’s a notice on the door saying admission at the permission of the captain only. It’s a private place. A place for people to let off steam.
You see, it’s not like a normal working environment, not like a normal office. You want normal? Become an accountant. What’s it like? Here’s Kevin Pietersen during the first Test of the 2013-14 Ashes series in Brisbane, page 244 of his autobiography: “Lunch, no thanks. I was sitting there thinking: I could die here in the f***ing Gabbatoir.” Mitchell Johnson bowling at 95mph; 45,000 Australians baying for blood; Michael Clarke baying for blood. It’s not like sitting in an office with the year-end results.
No surprise, then, that cricketers occasionally lose the plot in there. That’s why the ECB tries to put in a confidentiality clause in players’ central contracts. That’s why Sir Clive Woodward got his rugby World Cup-winning squad to agree not to dish the dirt on each other. Not because revealing every little detail paints an accurate picture of what goes on, but because it does precisely the opposite. The juicy bits, the fights, the arguments — they all happen, inevitably, and they are memorable, but without the rest or without context they can paint a totally inaccurate picture of what goes on.
I’m not a violent man. One day, after a tight quarter-final defeat for Lancashire, I took my bat to a brick bath in a changing room after the game. Tried to destroy it, brick by brick. Destroyed my bat in doing so, too. What was I doing? I can’t explain what drove me to do it, except that we lost a game we should have won. Out of the cup. Out of order. Immature. Ridiculous. But it happened and I’m not a violent man.
I’m not a fighter. Never thrown a punch in my life. Never got into a fight. Probably a bit yellow if truth be told. One day, in the Lancashire dressing room, I had to be separated from another England player just as I was about to throw a punch. Lucky for me. He would have nailed me to the floor. The man who did the separating had the bridge of his nose cut by a bat being used as a weapon. This happened, but I am not a fighter.
I don’t rant and rave. Mild-mannered most of the time. One day, just outside the England dressing room, I grabbed an England bowler by the scruff of his neck, and let rip. He was twice my size and, by rights, should have floored me. Out of order, totally out of order. I’m a mild-mannered man, honest.
Want more? I’ve seen players destroy showers, break mirrors, kick fridges, smash lockers, hurl abuse at each other, throw kit around. I’ve seen them frozen with fear, nauseous with nerves, exhausted, bitter, angry, tearful and mad. And you know what? For most of the time, the dressing rooms I was a part of were great places to be, full of fun and laughter and joy. Terrific. If I only told you tales in isolation you would think I was stark raving mad. A lunatic. I’m not, I promise.
Andy Flower, the sourpuss, apparently walked around the England changing room towards the end of the last Ashes tour with a face like thunder. You know what? England were losing, getting hammered, thrashed, their arses kicked all over Australia. People were laughing at them. Whitewashed. Flower cared about that.
Maybe England supporters want a coach and captain who appear unconcerned about looking like a rabble. India’s captain didn’t appear to be too concerned about losing a Test in three days this summer. Said he was happy for the extra days off. Just another game. I don’t think England supporters want that.
I’m not sure, either, they want to see bowlers shouting and screaming out on the field when a fielder makes a mistake. Out in the middle. Everything visible. Stay tight, united, disciplined instead. Flower and Strauss and Alastair Cook spoke about that. The dressing room is the place to wash the dirty laundry, not out in the middle. The dressing room. Something needs to be said, that’s the place to do it. To each other’s face, not through social media. I repeat that I have sympathy for Pietersen’s critique of the parody Twitter account and the behaviour of some bowlers towards certain fielders when mistakes were made in the field.
But a bullying culture in the dressing room? This place to let off steam, to rant and rave. This fun place, joyful place, caring place; this tearful place, tough place. “A tough environment, it was dog eat dog,” said Ajmal Shahzad, a veteran of one Test and 11 one-day internationals. Welcome to international sport, Ajmal. Soon enough, if the gory details continue to be told, but only the gory details, coaches will ask for someone to minute what goes on in a dressing room. Want a normal environment? Try accountancy.
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Once one of you guys has read it can you let me know if there was any real content of interest that hasnt been mentioned in the press yet? I suspect not but thought i'd ask
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Gist of it is basically what goes on in the dressing room should stay there as most of it is said in the heat of the moment and gets taken out of context by outsiders.
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Once one of you guys has read it can you let me know if there was any real content of interest that hasnt been mentioned in the press yet? I suspect not but thought i'd ask
It's from a Michael Atherton article, not from the book other than one line.
Though I will plead for everyone not to post spoilers in here. It's just too tempting to look. Perhaps we should make another topic where the book can be discussed?
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It's from a Michael Atherton article, not from the book other than one line.
Though I will plead for everyone not to post spoilers in here. It's just too tempting to look. Perhaps we should make another topic where the book can be discussed?
I hadnt see the athers post before posting, was referring to the book in general
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Ah I see. I won't be reading mine until tonight, Doubt I'll finish it as I have to go for physio at the gym as well.
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What they really want to know, of course, is what goes on in the dressing room. What goes on in the middle of a Test match? How do people behave? What�s it like? Ah, that�s different. It ain�t normal. There�s a reason why the cameras aren�t allowed in there. There�s a reason there�s a notice on the door saying admission at the permission of the captain only. It�s a private place. A place for people to let off steam.
I thought this passage in particular raised a number of questions... :D
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/790505.html?page=1 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/790505.html?page=1)
Wearing Kookaburra gloves. Could Adidas have dropped him as a sponsored player after his controversial book?
Or am I reading too much into this?
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Possibly, imagine he's gone out there to play and just picked up someone else's gear. Whilst still a big draw for t20 games and arguably the most recognisable cricketer in the world, wonder if not playing test cricket anymore would have an impact on his value to sponsors/brands? I suspect it wouldn't but would be interesting to see who he'd move to if the Adidas deal came to an end
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I imagine Addidas had some kind of clause in the deal where if he didn't play a certain format of cricket - test/odi/int t20/ipl/big bash/nat west blast then his sponsorship monies get's downgraded. Given he is playing IPL this year I suspect he didn't lose out that much.
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but would be interesting to see who he'd move to if the Adidas deal came to an end
Spartan, that or he'd start his own brand. Seems the entrepreneurial type to me.
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He's probably just borrowed it, whoever it belongs too was worried if they didn't let him use their kit they'd be accused of bullying!
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Spartan, that or he'd start his own brand. Seems the entrepreneurial type to me.
KP cricket - you'd be nuts not to!
Their tag line could be - the bowlers are bullies, now you can bully them!
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Grab the bull(y) by the horns ;)
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And if he has lost the Adidas sponsorship, I am sure it won't be his fault.
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And if he has lost the Adidas sponsorship, I am sure it won't be his fault.
its ok, if we just say 'support the lads', 'time to move on' and sweep it under the carpet then all is rosy I suppose... whats worse. someone who stands up to people or someone who just ignores it and lets things go even when wrong.
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I'm sure he tweeted that he had re-signed as the lead Pellara athlete for another 3 years fairly recently. Of course things may have been terminated but surely that would have been announced/leaked?
Jake
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Less chance of leaks now he isnt an ECB employee ;)
I was once told a story about KP and Spartan by someone but due to not knowing it as fact i really dont want to put it on a public forum