Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: smilley792 on September 17, 2014, 05:24:27 AM
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"too much concaving"
Something echoed a lot on here(not so much at my club/league though)
Some say it gives a better pick up, but I think we all know it's main reason is to keep the weight down while maintaining that big edge look.
Lots of clefts are dense/heavy, and as was pointed out in the b and s thread, most bats are wanted in 2.7-2.9(I'd say 2.10) so weight saving is key in the lower end models.
Does it have to be concaving though? What else is out there?
Small edges/traditional profile- worked for years but will the un initiated buy them?
Scoops/spineless bats- gn speciality, they work, but more novelty then big seller as they only appear sporadically.
Hole drilled handle to toe- county turbo style, most won't even realise it's there so why not?
Lighter wood inserts- m and h s6(or solution unsure) ran this, it is illegal but does it matter for lower level cricket?
Anyone else able to come up with a weight saving solution in a bat, that won't effect it's play, or pick up and could be the replacement to the overkill on concaving the likes off kook have put in every bat?
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Concaving works though, most variations of the scoop have worked, nothing legal left I don't think.
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The only way to save weight is to remove mass. If you want ideas for this, all of those 80s and 90s bats that you've described are approaches. You are limited as to what else you can do.
If the density of the cleft is on the high side, then all you are really left with is a less large bat, visually. Does it really affect performance? Not in my experience. I spent a lot of time and money trying it out!
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'small edges,tradititinal profile,will the uninitiated buy them'
Ive got a bat with small edges,about 33mm, minimal bow, hardly any concaving I think i'm in this category :)
it's a warsop made by Tony Sains, I don't know if it's low or high density cleft but it's a grade 1 and feels good and goes when I middle it, which has been not very often this season.
I'm yet to be convinced a bat with massive edges(which I see all the time in league cricket by the way) is any better than a trational profiled bat.
I think i'm out-of-step with the forum!! help!!
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'small edges,tradititinal profile,will the uninitiated buy them'
Ive got a bat with small edges,about 33mm, minimal bow, hardly any concaving I think i'm in this category :)
it's a warsop made by Tony Sains, I don't know if it's low or high density cleft but it's a grade 1 and feels good and goes when I middle it, which has been not very often this season.
I'm yet to be convinced a bat with massive edges(which I see all the time in league cricket by the way) is any better than a trational profiled bat.
I think i'm out-of-step with the forum!! help!!
I think your in step with majority off the forum. Many on here call for traditional bats. Non concaved. Smaller edges.
It's the people away from the forum that don't buy them and hence there unpopular Ness and poor sale.
Even gm said they made the 1885 as it was the "wanted" bat. Yet then sold very few in the real world.
I have 3 traditional edged bats in my collection.
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As already said, removing the mass is the only way. However, where you remove the wood from can help. Let's take some examples:-
1. Jumbo - from the splice
2. Cor3 - inch shoulder drop
3. Some b3's - concave the toe and shoulders
4. Newbery TT - slope the shoulders a little
5. Hunts County Turbo - drill a hole through the middle
6. Salix - slope the edges? (never seen one but told about this)
7. Numerous - stick a weedy handle on it or go for a SSH
8. Joker - use a harrow width bat
9. Use a light grip - chevron not octopus
10. Remove most or all of the stickers
11. No toe guards or scuff sheets
etc, etc . It would be interesting to see two bats of the same profile, one with all of the above and one with a "normal" setup.
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If the density of the cleft is on the high side, then all you are really left with is a less large bat, visually. Does it really affect performance? Not in my experience. I spent a lot of time and money trying it out!
True. Batsmen were hitting sixes before the advent of thick edges.
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Now, what about changing the feel (making it lighter) by moving the swell up in the bat? Conventional wisdom is that it makes the bat feel lighter. My question is whether moving to swell up in the bat makes the sweet spot go higher?
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True. Batsmen were hitting sixes before the advent of thick edges.
The only six hit over the pavilion at Lord's was another one that took place a very long time ago with a very traditional bat!
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Now, what about changing the feel (making it lighter) by moving the swell up in the bat? Conventional wisdom is that it makes the bat feel lighter. My question is whether moving to swell up in the bat makes the sweet spot go higher?
It does in theory. I have heard that the sweetspot is actually just below the middle and it will ping further down the blade (andy from saf discussion - centre of percussion)? Not sure if that's to do with levers ie. getting more leverage through the ball lower down the blade
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Here is my suggestion to reduce weight, essentially step-scooping/step-concaving.
Take a cleft and cut out these valleys, for lack of better word, then shape the cleft. # of valleys, Depth and width of each "valley" can be adjusted based on starting weight of the cleft and final desired weight and size specs of the customer etc. Not sure if anyone thinks there in merit in such an approach but I would think its worth a try. Image on the right is cuts made prior to shaping and image on the left is what it could look like post shaping. These cuts run the entire length of the bat, atleast the version in my head.
(http://s30.postimg.org/g9o7gnt8x/Untitled.png) (http://postimg.org/image/fwwtahaz1/full/)
print screen windows xp (http://postimage.org/app.php)
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Here is my suggestion to reduce weight, essentially step-scooping/step-concaving.
Take a cleft and cut out these valleys, for lack of better word, then shape the cleft. # of valleys, Depth and width of each "valley" can be adjusted based on starting weight of the cleft and final desired weight and size specs of the customer etc. Not sure if anyone thinks there in merit in such an approach but I would think its worth a try. Image on the right is cuts made prior to shaping and image on the left is what it could look like post shaping. These cuts run the entire length of the bat, atleast the version in my head.
([url]http://s30.postimg.org/g9o7gnt8x/Untitled.png[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/fwwtahaz1/full/[/url])
print screen windows xp ([url]http://postimage.org/app.php[/url])
This is not something that you'd want to do without a CNC, as shaping slim uprights like that would be likely to cause the wood to be more likely to split.
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This is not something that you'd want to do without a CNC, as shaping slim uprights like that would be likely to cause the wood to be more likely to split.
I was thinking that if you clamp the cleft down so it doesn't move then used a router drill with various size/length drill bits you could achieve this. If someone can make slots like the one in the image below then I think this could be doable...
(http://img.diynetwork.com/DIY/2003/09/18/t107_3fb_lg.jpg)
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Tim2million meas that after you've routed the grooves, if you tried to use a draw knife to shape the bat, you'd struggle not to damage, and snap the towers you've created.
Making the grooves/towers to start but is easy and simple wood work.
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Tim2million meas that after you've routed the grooves, if you tried to use a draw knife to shape the bat, you'd struggle not to damage, and snap the towers you've created.
Making the grooves/towers to start but is easy and simple wood work.
Keep in mind my image is a poor hand drawn ms paint job, towers don't need to be that thin and you could go down to just 1 groove each side of the spine. As for shaping I have no idea but I would think that since the drawknife is wider than the bat and a flat blade it would ok but I guess that is for the bat makers to answer.
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Keep in mind my image is a poor hand drawn ms paint job, towers don't need to be that thin and you could go down to just 1 groove each side of the spine. As for shaping I have no idea but I would think that since the drawknife is wider than the bat and a flat blade it would ok but I guess that is for the bat makers to answer.
Isn't that a GN Xiphos then?
(http://www.prodirectcricket.com/productimages/TechSpecs2/4380.jpg)
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Isn't that a GN Xiphos then?
([url]http://www.prodirectcricket.com/productimages/TechSpecs2/4380.jpg[/url])
Yeah i guess that could be it,,,didn't even remember that existed :-[
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Can the growers not do something to the trees to make them less dense? I'm not an arborist so have no idea about trees. If everyone is calling for big light bats then wouldn't this be the way to go?
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There plenty of light clefts out there make no mistake about very light is another matter.
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Can the growers not do something to the trees to make them less dense? I'm not an arborist so have no idea about trees. If everyone is calling for big light bats then wouldn't this be the way to go?
Trees take many years to grow to the stage where they are ready to be turned into bats. Growers/merchants can't react very quickly to trends.
The simplest way to make a dense cleft lighter is to over-dry it. This comes with another set of problems though, durability & longevity being the key ones.
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Yeah I know. I was thinking now if they started though. Can't see the trend ever going back to smaller sizes.
Now what about this? Making a cavity inside the bat and adding Helium? Don't know how it would stay in there but I'm sure the more scientific members could find a way.
Don't let go of the bat though as it might never come back...
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Isn't that a GN Xiphos then?
([url]http://www.prodirectcricket.com/productimages/TechSpecs2/4380.jpg[/url])
GN Megadrive had this too.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/18/utytu2aj.jpg)
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Must add that I had a Megadrive 2.7 and it was terrible. Had a full shape,but no meat.
Also had a GN Ultimate 1000 with hollow core. Basically a 3/8 hole is drilled at the base of the slice, before the handle is fitted, rather than up through the toe. Was my favourite bat.
I'd take weight from the edges splice and toe first and leave the spine height as a last area to remove weight.