Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: Nickauger on September 18, 2014, 12:33:05 PM
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Surprised this hasn't been bought up, but does anyone else think it is ridiculous that Andrew Gale is being investigated for racist abuse following an altercation with Ashwell Prince, where he called him a KOLPAK? Is it just me, or does this seem ridiculous!?! I mean to me, that is just a fact! Its a European ruling, not a derogatory term.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29254286 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29254286)
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Agreed, nothing racial about it. absolute joke, people need to pull their heads from their bottoms and stop being so sensitive
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I also agree, but I would say there isn't something right about saying 'F**k off back to your country' to someone.
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I am sure it's been said to an Aussie before, I know I have said it to a few poms. Nothing racist about it.
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I am sure it's been said to an Aussie before, I know I have said it to a few poms. Nothing racist about it.
I didn't say it was racist. Probably more xenophobic if anything. Certainly doesn't require a ban, though probably a slap on the wrist. More than likely it's the ECB making up for the whole Anderson Jadeja debacle.
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One of the journalists put it perfectly on twitter the other day:
Andrew Gales defence should be funny:
'I can't be racist, some of my best friends are Kolpaks!' :D
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There is too much "chat" in cricket these days. Some of it is very ungentlemanly. ICC should give umpires more powers to deal with any unsportsmanlike conduct on the field. Also broadcasters should turn up those stump mikes so the rest of the world can see ( or rather hear ) what kind of jerks some of these cricket players are.
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From what I've heard it was something along the lines of "Why don't you f*** off back to your own country you kolpak f***cker". Sounds quite a bit worse when put in that context.
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From what I've heard it was something along the lines of "Why don't you f*** off back to your own country you kolpak f***cker". Sounds quite a bit worse when put in that context.
Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. I don't think kolpak was the offensive/controversial part of the sentence though...
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Why don't you f*** off back to Sussex you Southern f***er.
I see no difference between this and the Kolpak comment.
You will here that a lot, it's only because it was said to a foreigner that there is an issue.
Did the Saffer even complain, or was this purely from what the umpire heard?
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Sledging has always been part of the game and always will.
Everyone gets frustrated every now and then, which is probably the reason for the outburst. I have sent many batsman packing using the 'f' work out of aggression. Would happily have a beer after the game with them though and they know that no harm is done.
Professionals take it a little to heart i think. Lets face it if we went to SA, Aus or NZ i'd full well know i would be on the end of a lot of stick for being English but i'd take it.
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From what I've heard it was something along the lines of "Why don't you f*** off back to your own country you kolpak f***cker". Sounds quite a bit worse when put in that context.
to put it into a little more context it was in reply to Prince saying
"why dont you f*** off back to mid off" - thats how he came about telling him where to go rather than just coming out with it completely unprompted (if that makes sense)
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I didn't say it was racist. Probably more xenophobic if anything. Certainly doesn't require a ban, though probably a slap on the wrist. More than likely it's the ECB making up for the whole Anderson Jadeja debacle.
It has been made a racist issue though.
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6 of 1, half a dozen of the other!
He gave back what he got! No racism there! But its the normal case of PC gone mad!
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What is the idea of a KOLPAK player? apart from sides wangling an extra overseas?
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What is the idea of a KOLPAK player? apart from sides wangling an extra overseas?
That's exactly it.
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What is the idea of a KOLPAK player? apart from sides wangling an extra overseas?
It EU agreement that South Africans can pork in Europe. Something to do with Dutch settlements there a long time ago.
Kolpak players have to (or used to ) relinquish their right to play for their country. Which could quickly be overturned when they wanted to play again.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolpak_ruling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolpak_ruling)
For those hard of googling!
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It's another spot wasted within a team that could be filled by some young local talent trying to make a career for himself? One overseas should be ok but not so sure this is helping the development of cricket in this country.
But then again this is probably why half of our England team or players that have played in the last few years originate from SA!
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Ashwell Prince is a credit to the County Championship and wholly committed to Lancashire. Young English players will learn more playing with and against him than each other....
Trumped up charge though. Larry Booth has it right.
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If you actually look through a lot of kolpak players are very committed to teams and stay there for quite a while, not normally as mercenary as it suggests.
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Ashwell and Thomas would be good exceptions but I do think it can hinder the development of others.
It's like club cricket. What's the point of having an overseas, a local pro and overseas UK citizen? That's more than a quarter of your side that probably won't be there the next year and would need replacing. It doesn't show the depth of a club if your having to do this. The same could be said with KOLPAK?
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It EU agreement that South Africans can pork in Europe.
Hahahah! Just seen this! The EU can dictate where Saffers can pork!
Priceless.
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There are teams of young english players in Div 2 that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
Sometimes knowledge and experience count for more than just promise and to justify an academy system.
Here are some other Kolpaks:
Murray Goodwin
Brendan Nash
Andre Adams
Wayne Madsen
Andrew Hall
All have been in County XIs for a good period.
There are very few registered Kolpaks in county cricket at the moment. That's hardly stealing a jolly Englander's chance is it? Plus, Hall and Goodwin are leaving/retiring at the end of the season.
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Other examples I know of as a Hants supporter are Sean Ervine and previously Neil McKenzie and Nic Pothas.
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Yep Sam, all three of those hardly give/gave anything back right? ;)
Pothas was English qualified near the end of his career too.
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There are teams of young english players in Div 2 that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
Sometimes knowledge and experience count for more than just promise and to justify an academy system.
Here are some other Kolpaks:
Murray Goodwin
Brendan Nash
Andre Adams
Wayne Madsen
Andrew Hall
All have been in County XIs for a good period.
There are very few registered Kolpaks in county cricket at the moment. That's hardly stealing a jolly Englander's chance is it? Plus, Hall and Goodwin are leaving/retiring at the end of the season.
Adams based on his West Indian parents - anyone know how many of the 10 are not saffers?
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Nash is Jamaica born I think
Goodwin & Anthoony Ireland are Zim
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Ashwell Prince has said that Andrew Gale's tirade in which he called him a f******* Kolpak did not cross his mind during the heat of the argument as a racial slur.
"I took offence at the way he spoke to me. To be quite honest, I didn't stand there and think that might be a racial slur," he said. "The guy walked towards me and had a go and I defended myself. The ECB feel it has racial connotations and it's up to them to do whatever they want to do."
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Are you happy to say then that if some of young lads could fight themselves out of a paper bag that English cricket is poor? The ECB really need to have a good hard look at the development systems if we have to fill sides with foreigners!
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No, I'm saying that the bottom of Div 2 is quite poor and it could escalate upwards.
I don't understand where you're getting 'fill' from.
Look at the team that won the Championship, Yorkshire. Where are their Kolpaks? None. However, Phil Jaques was a pro with them in the not too distant past and it's not churlish to say that Lyth/Lees didn't learn a lot from him. But they also have a large catchment area and strong academy/league system to pick from. You could even argue their overseas in the Championship was their worse performing player after Gale this season.
The rest of Prince's team, Lancashire, is basically Horton (Aussie but resident), Chapple, Prince (and Kyle Jarvis, but he's played close to natch for them) plus a bunch of young English players
Sam's dear Hampshire are committed to bringing through their own, but still have a smattering of quality old pros maintaining a healthy balance.
Both can work in harmony to produce better cricketers.
Also counties are INCENTIVISED to play youngsters from their academies with cold hard cash. A balance can and probably has been found in Div 1. Below that, harder to say.
p.s. Cachopa at Sussex is another Kolpak who pops to mind
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Are you happy to say then that if some of young lads could fight themselves out of a paper bag that English cricket is poor? The ECB really need to have a good hard look at the development systems if we have to fill sides with foreigners!
At the end of Page 1 of this thread you wanted to know what the idea of a Kolpak player was, now you're up in arms about it!
None of the sides are filled with foreigners (Northants used to be but thats another story) each county probably has 1 or 2, generally they're seasoned experienced pros who are committed to their club and help the younger players develop by showing them how to be a professional cricketer, i would personally rather that than a team of wet nosed young English players learning from each other!
Sometimes you just need a bit of experience in a team, and if all you've got is young players then you have to look somewhere!
And tbh, Leics would struggle to fight their way out of a bubble at the moment, let alone a paper bag....
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Yep Sam, all three of those hardly give/gave anything back right? ;)
Pothas was English qualified near the end of his career too.
Is Ervine English qualified yet? Been here quite a while now, remember when there was that fuss over him going back to play for Zimbabwe but he decided against it valuing his county contract higher.
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I'm not sure. He could be if he wanted to be if that counts?
Ryan ten Doeschate said he would never play for England but is another Kolpak.
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Alvaro are you well??? Williamson had the second highest average in the side out of the regulars, and 11th overall in the league, taking out 3/4 of those as well for getting big scores and just playing 1 or two games. Disregard ballance who was with England most of the time, and not even English! They have done well don't get me wrong. They seem to know how to bring them along well.
Experience does do well in sides i know that. young players do need the opportunity first though to get somewhere.
A friend of mine from Cornwall this week made his debut for Notts and wacked a ton in the first innings. That will have given him a serious platform for a career now hopefully. If Notts were still in with a chance of winning the title then i'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been given the nod. Newell's comment was 'the league is out of our hands so im going to give a couple of youngsters a game'. Luckily Jake grabbed his opportunity.
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http://m.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/10567574.York_batting_star_Jack_Leaning_heading_to_Australia_with_Phil_Jaques/
Here's an article about Phil Jaques taking Jack Leaning to Australia last winter. This season Jack is a regular in the Yorkshire team that won the championship.
That trip helped him a lot.
The last game, a title decider vs Notts, Yorkshire chose to pick Jack ahead of Kane Williamson.
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Alvaro are you well??? Williamson had the second highest average in the side out of the regulars, and 11th overall in the league, taking out 3/4 of those as well for getting big scores and just playing 1 or two games.
Williamson of course being an Overseas player, not a Kolpak player......
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Williamson has good numbers, but most of that average derives from a BIG hundred in one game.
Lyth and Lees more tons and a very productive opening pair.
Bairstow, a fair few match-changing innings, and took his catches.
Leaning, did more than can be expected of a greenhorn.
All the bowlers did well - and Rashid got important runs too. Williamson was less productive over a period and wasn't missed when away on int'l duty.
Notts do have a higher average age than most, but then they also get the chequebook out more than most. Well done to your friend. I hope he gets a chance in more competitive circumstances.
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The last game, a title decider vs Notts, Yorkshire chose to pick Jack ahead of Kane Williamson.
Sorry to let you know but Kane had gone back to play for is side in the T20 champs league and didn't get dropped.
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He was in the squad list released by Yorkshire so that return was probably a result of this decision.
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He would have had to fly back Thursday or Friday to play for his club back home, so I'm guessing he chose to play back home and let them select another player. He's probably picked up a decent cheque for it so I know which game I would be playing.
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I'm not sure. He could be if he wanted to be if that counts?
Ryan ten Doeschate said he would never play for England but is another Kolpak.
Is he definately a kolpak? I seemed to believe he qualifies as simply a European citizen?
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Nash is Jamaica born I think
Goodwin & Anthoony Ireland are Zim
Nope.
Nash is a Queenslander.
His parents are white Jamaican's.
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Thanks Vic - twas from a befuddled part of my brain.