Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Custom companies => B3 Cricket => Topic started by: Chad on September 26, 2014, 03:50:14 PM
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So, I decided to send down my BAS to B3 for a rehandle, and while I was at it, I sent them my Laver and SCAT Series 1 to copy, as:
1, I may never be able to get my hands on a SCat again.
2, I hate the weight gain that comes with Lavers.
3, They are my favourite profiles, so being able to have them replicated accurately is a great thing.
And 4, Seems like my Laver profile is reasonably popular, and the Screaming Cat Series 1 is a pretty coveted profile on here, from what I've seen. (Share the love!)
Laver:
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/ChadLaver.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/ChadLaver.jpg.html)
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_7985.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_7985.jpg.html)
Screaming Cat:
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/ChadScreaming.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/ChadScreaming.jpg.html)
(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/ch4d0m4n/IMG_8191.jpg) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/ch4d0m4n/media/IMG_8191.jpg.html)
Spoke to Streaky over the phone, and it turns out that one made in the Laver profile will weight 2lb 11.5oz, and one in the SCat profile will weigh 2lb 9.5oz. This means that the actual cleft weights of the two bats I sent them aren't actually anything extremely light! (2.12 and just under 2.11 respectively) However, the scuff sheets that Laver use weigh around 0.8 ounces, and the toe guards are pretty heavy too, so you have a few things to keep in mind! (I also think that JM leaves a lot of weight in the handle to help aid the balance!) I personally think they look pretty darn close myself, obviously with the B3 press roller being a slightly flatter face, it won't be completely identical to the SCat, but very close indeed. (Admittedly, I feel that the spines are slightly longer on the originals, but I think that's only because the copies are in a smaller image!)
Thanks again Streaky! Didn't realise the Laver's spine height was 66mm!
PS. I don't have the numbers for these profiles, but I'm sure if you contact Streaky or Dave, and request one of these profiles, they'll be able to do it for you under the Bespoke option. :)
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Lovely, thanks for sharing.
For Screaming Cat I know that elongated spine runs into the handle whereas in aforementioned B3 profile snap as you mentioned is not only long enough but gets flatten out just before where handle starts.
May I ask which willow will you be opting out for? Crown?
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this means you can let me have the scat back then Chad! :-)
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Lovely, thanks for sharing.
For Screaming Cat I know that elongated spine runs into the handle whereas in aforementioned B3 profile snap as you mentioned is not only long enough but gets flatten out just before where handle starts.
May I ask which willow will you be opting out for? Crown?
That's true, I'm not 100% sure, but I think the shoulders will be trimmed a little, as they still have to handle and blend them in, and I think it flattens out because they'll be shaping the handle around that area anyways!
I'm not 100% sure yet, but I don't think I need to go for Crown, simply because I use a weight of around 2.9 and a half to 2.12 anyways! Once I get all my gear sorted, and all the unwanted stuff sold, I may as well go for a 3 stripe! I could possibly go for a crown and ask them to increase the size of the bat, but I don't think it will be too necessary!
this means you can let me have the scat back then Chad! :-)
Haha I'm sure it's a collector's item now! I've been thinking of selling it, simply because it will probably not see any use at all, but it is pretty rare! Great that B3 can now offer the profile, as I'm sure many folk will want a copy!
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I so love that SCAT profile. marvellous.
Can't wait to see the Dr's work on these bats.
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To me the CAD doesn't look quite right. But then again it is missing the bow in the bats, could be that needs to be factored in. I'm sure the final product will come out just like the originals.
But good lord that scat is glorious, I wouldn't mind someone copying that for me.
Looking through it again, the edges on the CAD are alot bigger than the originals.
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68mm spine on the laver?
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Are they copying the handle shape too? SCat handles are huge
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B3 have a great selection of handles, some real nice thick oval like, if not better than, M&H handles.
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Are they copying the handle shape too? SCat handles are huge
We are not copying anything my handle is 20cm diameter it is a thick as possible on the 1271.
middle bat shows this
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2dgu71y.jpg)
People forget a handle is limited to thickness by the shoulders.
I noticed Australians players we make for tend to like thin handles
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38mm edge on the scat seems a bit high
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38mm edge on the scat seems a bit high
I would think edge size and spine size are taken from the straight not taking the bow of the bat into account
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We are not copying anything my handle is 20cm diameter it is a thick as possible on the 1271.
middle bat shows this
([url]http://i60.tinypic.com/2dgu71y.jpg[/url])
People forget a handle is limited to thickness by the shoulders.
I noticed Australians players we make for tend to like thin handles
What do you mean you are not copying anything, the customer wants a copy of the bat doesn't he?
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Woo somebody angry haha
Are we not talking about handles mate????
I made the comment we already do a thick handle diameter...
But thanks for you comments and no we do not copy anything we BAT MAP.
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I'm not angry, the question was asked if the handle shape of the screaming cat was being copied as well. Surely it's being copied if he wants the same bat?
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I'm not angry, the question was asked if the handle shape of the screaming cat was being copied as well. Surely it's being copied if he wants the same bat?
And my response is we already have thicker handles so not reproducing anything mate...
We can make the same but already do possibly the thickest oval handle even Trescothick would be happy with ...
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So all your handle shapes are the same? A generic shape?
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I think Dave is saying that they don't have to copy the handle unless the customer asks them to. If the customer wants the handle suited to his style of play that can be done.
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It was asked if the handle of the screaming cat was being copied as well as the blade, it was a simple question I thought.
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It was asked if the handle of the screaming cat was being copied as well as the blade, it was a simple question I thought.
Your asking the wrong person, as chad,the guys who's bats they are, if he's having the handle copied on the scat rep or not. As ultimately it's upto him.
So many crossed wires in this thread now!
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Your asking the wrong person, as chad,the guys who's bats they are, if he's having the handle copied on the scat rep or not. As ultimately it's upto him.
So many crossed wires in this thread now!
I never asked the original question, I asked after B3 answered claiming they weren't copying anything. This seemed weird considering the guy was having his bat replicated ( copied )
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Either way handle wise interesting stuff, working with CAD but these days with plastic the geek in me likes the process!
Chad once it's available I'm sure will do a detailed review & if Dave could feedback on a reference number and cleft vs finished weight there I am sure will be forum orders a plenty - always liked the series 1 profile!
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Must admit that I dropped very lucky with the B3 that I got. It wasn't made for me as it was off the shelf, but it has a nice thick oval handle which is exactly what I like. ;)
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I never asked the original question, I asked after B3 answered claiming they weren't copying anything. This seemed weird considering the guy was having his bat replicated ( copied )
The bottom line wasn't actually aimed at you.
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Surely it's a public forum?
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Wow it's got heated in here since I last looked!!
Let's stop all this talk of stiffness, shape and girth, we should just go back to admiring Chad's wood and the CAD representation of it!
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I love both profile Chad mate simply brilliant though of profiles I have been a big fan of both and love the fuller profile first and formost
I intend on finding out the volume of this and density you see the volume of wood looks big on the screaming cat profile I would have thought 2nd only to the 1271.
The wires have been crossed what I was supposed to say was the handle on a series 1 is not to dissimilar to the one on the 1271 one we have made a few times.
What I think is where seeing a return of the fuller profile bats with slightly smaller edges which I have always advocated due to us not middling the ball as much as we would all like.
The great thing about both bat mapping and bespoke is simple.
Let's say the profile is at 2-11 in a 400 cleft then if your desired weight is 2-9 we know that a 370 cleft will get this as with the 10 density to 1 ounce rule. Or you could bring the whole profile down by 3mm with a 400 cleft so there two ways of skinning a cat.
For us it all volumes and we can work anything from there. As for handles I have always maintained the weight in the handle is a factor in the bats weight too.
As for mapping it allows so much scope and possibilities almost any shaped can be mapped.
We are working on bowing techniques and moving forward I think bat mapping is part of the future in the way we do things.
Hope this clears things up
Tim recent mapping is a current favourite of mine too a real classy profile
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I would think edge size and spine size are taken from the straight not taking the bow of the bat into account
This is a good point. Both photo's show a bow in the blade, whereas Streaky's bitmap is a flat. This is particularly relevant to the spine as it gives the impression of it tailing away on the bitmap more than the photo's. Stick the bitmap image at a slight upward angle, going up towards the handle and the spine profile will indeed look similar and flatter in both cases.
Dave, I'm sure you have told me before but how is the bow put in? How will you get it to match the photos?
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This is a good point. Both photo's show a bow in the blade, whereas Streaky's bitmap is a flat. This is particularly relevant to the spine as it gives the impression of it tailing away on the bitmap more than the photo's. Stick the bitmap image at a slight upward angle, going up towards the handle and the spine profile will indeed look similar and flatter in both cases.
Dave, I'm sure you have told me before but how is the bow put in? How will you get it to match the photos?
Bows are all about the beds under the press or you could press it in on a even bed and do it by eye.
It is a massive are i known the team have been working on and we had one of the best from the sub continent show us his thoughts on it and the best results.
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I'm in the less is more camp with bows. Very interesting that you've had advice from the sub continent though - good call IMO.
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Hi Skip, I understand that you've had a bit of a negative experience with B3. However, don't think it's necessary to seem aggressive towards the questioning, I think Dave was just making the point that they had already had the capacity to produce a very thick oval handle, so weren't going to copy the handle, as they already provide one that's to the customers liking. (Didn't ask for the handle to be replicated)
I actually just sent these bats down to get a more accurate mapping, so B3 could keep the profiles in their system, both for my own future use, and also for the use of anyone else on this forum. In terms of the handle I would have requested, I would have actually asked for a slightly skinnier oval, but would have liked to keep the pronounced oval feel. (Kind of a hybrid between the SCat and Laver handles!)
Turned out the SCat would be 2lb 9.5oz with a 400 cleft, but obviously Julian leaves quite a lot of weight in the handle, so it does make sense that the SCat is heavier than this.
The Laver would turn out to be 2lb 11.5oz. I'm not 100% sure if Streaky factored in the lack of any concaving on the higher parts of both bats, which will be part of the reason why they pick up so well too. However, from what I've seen, the replication is pretty accurate! (I believe that Norbs, ex SAF bat maker, called it the C to V profile)
Admittedly, the CAD model of these bats that Streaky sent me on PDF do look a touch different compared to these prototype pics I've posted up, the SCat isn't quite as big as that! (Says 31.76mm for the edge and 60.91mm for the spine on the PDF) The Laver's spine is bigger than I thought, at 66mm.
As to the weight B3 say a bat will turn out to be, obviously this is based on an assumption that the handle will always be a specific weight, so assuming that the handles are all the same density, then yes, they assume that all the handles are the same generic shape when calculating. Of course, a customer will state what kind of a shape of a handle they would like. Even though the clefts are put through a CNC, there must still be a lot of handcrafting involved, as they may need to take a little extra weight out of the profile, simply because the density of the cleft isn't uniform across the blade, and also the customer may request a really thick handle, which weighs a good couple of ounces more than the 'generic' one they base the calculations on.
Lots of respect for this company, offering something pretty darn unique indeed. Looking forward to receiving my rehandled BAS back, and will be deciding what bats to cut loose to get a Bespoke bat from them. Loving the Butterfly Mull profiled bat I got from them earlier, although now, in hindsight, I should have went for the DW1, as that's a cracker!
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Hi Skip, I understand that you've had a bit of a negative experience with B3. However, don't think it's necessary to seem aggressive towards the questioning, I think Dave was just making the point that they had already had the capacity to produce a very thick oval handle, so weren't going to copy the handle, as they already provide one that's to the customers liking. (Didn't ask for the handle to be replicated)
Hey guys, I don't think Skip did anything wrong - having asked the original question, I was also confused when procricket replied that "we are not copying anything". It needed clarification, and Skip was fine in questioning further. But now that it's all clear let's leave it at that.
Good looking bats though. Which profile do you prefer in game?
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Stop being aggressive Tugga.
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I think the reference to not copying anything and it being bat mapping may be to stay clear from any legal issues?
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I think the reference to not copying anything and it being bat mapping may be to stay clear from any legal issues?
That's an interesting thought. Do brands get copyrights on their bat profiles? I wouldn't think so but you never know.
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Hey guys, I don't think Skip did anything wrong - having asked the original question, I was also confused when procricket replied that "we are not copying anything". It needed clarification, and Skip was fine in questioning further. But now that it's all clear let's leave it at that.
Good looking bats though. Which profile do you prefer in game?
Stop being aggressive Tugga.
Being that relentless in the questioning, while it is pretty evident that B3 provide a handle to the customer's specs, (generic handle shape comment) plus with the above response pretty much sums up why I came to my conclusions. May have been wrong in my assumptions, in which case I apologise, difficult to determine the attitude over typed out messages.
Profile wise, I prefer my Laver, as it was actually custom shaped to my specs. I haven't had much of a chance to use the Screaming Cat. (Or many of my other bats!) Of course I'm being a little biased, but it is a larger bat overall, and I feel that the sweetspot is more substantial.
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We also run handles through weight and by that i mean handles are weighted and a big factor in bat weights too. People forget this sometimes but their is a natural difference in handles some may not be aware of and thats before they are shaped.
Hell you can't even have banter on this forum....
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We also run handles through weight and by that i mean handles are weighted and a big factor in bat weights too. People forget this sometimes but their is a natural difference in handles some may not be aware of and thats before they are shaped.
Hell you can't even have banter on this forum....
Apologies, was just a bit annoyed at what seemed like pointless questions, my fault for derailing the thread with my responses.
Impressed by what you guys are doing, there's really not much that you guys can't offer in terms of bespoke bats!
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I'm not angry, the question was asked if the handle shape of the screaming cat was being copied as well. Surely it's being copied if he wants the same bat?
I think it is safe to say there has been a few crossed wires in this thread. We can produce what ever handle the customer wants, as we make to order and dont choose from stock. We tend to classify the handles in 4 main catergories - ROUND/ SLIGHT OVAL / OVAL / EXTREME OVAL - that said we can also provide a more accurate service whereby customers give us dimensions of their ideal set up and we work from that. I hope that answers your question Skip1973
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This is a good point. Both photo's show a bow in the blade, whereas Streaky's bitmap is a flat. This is particularly relevant to the spine as it gives the impression of it tailing away on the bitmap more than the photo's. Stick the bitmap image at a slight upward angle, going up towards the handle and the spine profile will indeed look similar and flatter in both cases.
Your spot on - the photo's of the actual bat include the set of the handle, the photo that I have used to bat map is resting on the toe and top of the blade so takes out the handle set - does that make sense???
Dave, I'm sure you have told me before but how is the bow put in? How will you get it to match the photos?
Press all our bow - i.e. not machine cut
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That's an interesting thought. Do brands get copyrights on their bat profiles? I wouldn't think so but you never know.
There is a thing called design registration - which by the letter of the law states that once your design has been out in the public domain you have a design right for that, however, cricket bats being cricket bats someone could argue that they are all the same and also argue that that all are completely different. Their has only ever been 1 patent on cricket bats to knowledge and that was the GN Scoop - which has no lapse as it is over 25 years old.