Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Custom Made => Topic started by: Washington on November 21, 2009, 09:16:45 AM
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Does anybody knowif Gladiator cricket is still going? If so who makes there bats?
Secondly anyone used/know about Pennine?
Cheers
Dan
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Gladiator had bats made by Champ in India. Never heard of Pennine.
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Just found the Pennine site, bats look Pakistani. Possibly AS.
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http://www.penninecricket.com/products_cricket_bats.aspx (http://www.penninecricket.com/products_cricket_bats.aspx)
G1 for £120, not too bad.
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''Our bats are hand made by pod shavers with a rich history of bat making and as such we pride our selves in the quality of our products. What we offer is no different to the major brands but a focus on the product rather than gimmicks! ''
No mention that they are made in UK . . .but handmade G1!
Ugliest stickers ive seen for a while :(
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After 6 months of Mongoose I now find splices incredibly ugly, stickers need to hide them and those Pennine ones don't!
But yeh I would expect Pennine to be a Pakistani because of the splice and profile.
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Yeah i know what you mean should never be able to see the splice, not a big fan of transparent stickers!
The handle is very dark is that why you think its pakistani? And the big bow/thick edges?
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No, it's more to do with the point at the bottom every company has a different way the splice is done. English and the top Indian's usually have a flat point at the bottom, with Pakistani using a sharper point. Not sure why this is but it may be to do with the tools used to cut it. Obviously this isn't a steadfast way to find out who made the bat but combined with profile it just screams Pakistani to me. If you see it in person you can also look at the binding and handle springs, which give a good indicator as to where they're made.
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Ah ok i see where you are coming from . . . i guess thats why on their website they say they have no shop or showroom and im guessing no workshop either as they are just imported!
Shame . . .thats all companies (majority) seem to do . . .import, sticker as there own and sell for large profits!
Thank god for those batmakers on this forum :)
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Correct, will probably just be a run from back bedroom at home thing.
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Price is good but labels look really boring and simple.
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emailed him and wouldn't tell me if it was made in India or Pak and by whom for obvious reasons. Can't really customize it either.. they only do SH
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Hi All
Firstly thank you all for visiting our site.
We are a new small brand and run it outside our normal jobs, and hence why we can't offer huge diversification in our range just yet. We have tried to offer quality equipment at sensible prices.
As for 'import, sticker as there own and sell for large profits!', well that's the point of business and we are not alone in this, but rest assured, there are not huge large profits to be made. It could be argued that if this the case, why don't the bespoke brands get their soft goods made in the UK?
I'd like to think we are good value for money, clearly we are not a luxury bespoke bat company but we don't make claims that we are.
We tried to to be original with our branding and at least have our own image, clearly from the comments it isn't everyones' taste but we can't please everyone. Although I'd like to think we would try where we can :). I've seen a few brands out there that really have no shame, but we are not here to pick fights or have confrontations with anyone.
Tom, interesting comments about not liking splices since your involvement with Mongoose. If anyone is around is around in Halifax and we are free you are most definetly welcome for a cuppa of tea in our non showroom/workshop :)
PS CD0070, I did say that we try and cater for what most people are liekly to want, but if people wanted custom we'd try and get it but there would be a wait. Hope that's taken in the right way mate, no ill intent.
Kind regards
Bash
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Agreed, you did say that.. I'd like to apologize for my previous statement. I didn't mean that they only do SH, I meant currently they only have inventory of SH and customization can happen.
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No offence taken, no need to apologise. :)
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Pennine,
Of course i know what the idea of business is, the point im making is that you are not a cricket company you are just merely a rebrander . . .if i bought a Ford car took the badges off (or it came without) and put my own badges on it does that make me a car manufacturer?
As to the the bespoke brands getting thier softs from India, it is a given that they are cheaper, but moreover is due to the indians being very good at what they do!
The reason myself and others like me on this forum pay a premium for bespoke gear is because we know what we are getting . . .a quality product and quality service!
Personally im sick of companies flooding the market with cheap foreign imports and charging the same as what proper cricket companies charge for theirs!
Tell me how you are a bespoke company?
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Pennine are not alone in the rebranding of bats and there's nothing wrong with it, Pennine will be buying that bats for restickering purposes from the manufacturer and they'd know that. It's up to the buyer to read up about the brand and see if that's what they want or if they want a bat handmade in the UK. It's the same in TV's, many BUSH tv's you see have Samsung Panels in just the Bezel is manufactured for Bush.
If you want a bespoke bat then stick to a company who can provide that service, but there's a market (probably more locally than online) for companies like Pennine and Gladiator.
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I am aware that there are others companies rebrand, (like your previous brand Itias) but why should a consumer have to dig to find the origin of their product? Their website although it doesn't say it suggest that they are handmade uk company, even the name Pennine is miss leading!
He said they are not a luxury bespoke comapny, suggesting they are a bespoke company, his words not mine! How are they a bespoke company?
Anyone can order a bat from India/Pakistan and throw some stickers on it and say custom made G1 EW bats, that is why cricketers like myself buy from companies like those on this forum.
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There isn't one big brand on the market who doesn't rebrand a selection of their bats.
And if customers did to a bit of digging as to where the majority of bats are made (or at least pressed, handled and shaped a bit) they'd probably be left with only a handful of companies to buy from.
I would say 90% of people don't care where the bat is made. With Itias I sold 90 Asian mades to approx 5 English mades.
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That is why i buy from those handful of companies :)
I dont want to get petty about it but most people i know, know that the big brands aren't handmade or even made in the UK. Just dont like companies that are just in it to make money without any love or pride in their work.
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So who do you buy from out of interest?
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Hey calm down Dan, never seen a thing like it, a bit of perspective here please.
>>Of course i know what the idea of business is, the point im making is that you are not a cricket company you are just merely a rebrander . . .if i bought a >>Ford car took the badges off (or it came without) and put my own badges on it does that make me a car manufacturer?
>>As to the the bespoke brands getting thier softs from India, it is a given that they are cheaper, but moreover is due to the indians being very good at >>what they do!
I think you are being very extreme in your examples and seem quite emotional about this. There are many well known brands that no one bats an eyelid (no pun intended), who do EXACTLY WHAT WE DO yet they are accepted as 'cricket brands' yet a start up like us is faced with abuse.
What you are doing is being very literal and picky about what defines what. So basically you are saying it is acceptable for Indians to be good at soft good making, who conveniently happen to be cheaper too hmmm. So why don't these bespoke brands simply just supply cricket bats and leave the Indian branding on the pads and sell them as they are? Surely you must realise its not as clear cut as you are implying. It's supply chain economics and good business sense. I have no intentions of getting into a spat with anyone and naming brands but is it also unacceptable in the UK to rebrand and supply another bat manufactured in the UK? I'm not naming names but you know who some of them are.
>>The reason myself and others like me on this forum pay a premium for bespoke gear is because we know what we are getting . . .a quality product and >>quality service!
That is your prerogative and you are entitled to buy bats from where ever you wish, I am not stopping you. As to say foreign bats are not quality and any company that supplies them is not quality is without substance and also quite insulting to the soft good manufacturers who supply your favourite bespoek brand. Many international players within the South Asian countries are proof that the equipment is very good and the podshavers know what they are doing. It is 'Western' brands that have started to copy Asian shapes (this may even be a byproduct of them having equipment made in Asia). I don't want to get into this East vs West thing.
Personally im sick of companies flooding the market with cheap foreign imports and charging the same as what proper cricket companies charge for theirs!
Tell me how you are a bespoke company?
As for 'cheap foreign goods', this is a global economic issue and not one of quality, it is to do with currency exchange. Be careful about this, there is no doubt there are brands who get very shoddy cheap goods who do not deal directly with a manufacturer, but not all of the companies. It is the same in many other industries but you seem more conscious of it because of your passion of cricket.
At no point do we claim to be a bespoke company, but clearly if a customer wants something particular, we will try and get that for them if we can. If we can't we will say so, it's simply good customer service.
I am still intrigued what a 'proper cricket company is'?
I hope I have explained what I am trying to say clearly. If this thread becomes a slagging match I will politely withdraw from the forum. We are not here to have mindless arguments or get into it with anyone.
Cheers
Bash
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Tom
You are correct, our focus really is local and thats where we see our current market. Naturally like any good business we need a web prescence and we would welcome customers from all over.
BTW I am genuinely interested to see how the Mongoose bats do. People need to understand cricket has evolved and has always had changes. Companies like Mongoose are simply a new chapter. Good luck!
Kind regards
Bash
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Im calm thanks bash, as to me abusing you im simply giving you my opinion on your company, which there are 100's of all over the UK and other countries, that simply rebrand other peoples work. To me that is not a cricket company. You are clearly only in it for the money and im sure not a penny will put into research and development.
By a proper cricket company i mean a company that puts something back into the game and not just jumping on the band wagon. At no stage did I say the cheap foreign goods were of poor quality. As to the global economic crisis, dont you have an obligation, as we all do, to buy British?
I dont want to get into a slanging match either, so will leave it there. I hope you prove me wrong :)
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Tom I currently use H4L, before that i used Newbery and M&H.
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Fair enough, Newbery and H4L make and press their own bats.
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M&H can and have pressed and handled their bats aswell.
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But also buy a number in...
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But have the capability nonetheless
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But choose not to use it on occasion, perhaps they get better bats buying in?
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perhaps
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Dan
Thats cool I take back the abuse comment.
Are we in it for the money? No doubt we are, I won't deny that. Lets keep that statement in context, we are a business so we always have an aim on getting profit on our sales. This is the aim of most companies (I concede there may well be exceptions, if so how many really?), if not they wouldn't sponsor players and then pass on some of the sponsorship outlay onto the bat price.
I don't know the inner workings of Mongoose, so I apologise to Tom if I am wrong and he can correct me. I am sure one of the main priorities for Mongoose besides brand exposure will be to recouperate some of the money spent on players they have sponsored, and make sure the players do a job of promoting the brand. Anyone sponsored can be viewed as an 'employee' of sorts during the contract. I have only chosen Mongoose as an example so if it seems I am singling them out that is not the case, it applies to many companies. Players will have to speak positive about the brand even if they feel somewhat different.
My point being to say we are money driven and care nothing for the game is not the truth. Are we in a position to innovate, I'd say not so much at the moment. Besides Mongoose recently, how many 'true bat companies' have innovated truly?
The big brands have innovated on doft good design and asthetics but they have the clout. The very small bespoke companies that you speak off, there's maybe a handful that have worked on their own designs for soft goods, but bats have not dramatically changed much in shape. What they specialise in is customisation and tailoring.
In terms of good design for soft goods, brands that come to mind, H4L, Newberry and M&H, but they still use Indian manufacturers. In the context of your viewpoint, should they not be manufacturing their own soft goods? Are they passing of work of others as their own? If not them, then it certainly applies to the rest fo the smaller companies, who make their own bats but just get badged soft goods.
By all means from what I have seen with brands like Redback, H4L, Charlie French etc... They offer great bats no doubt, but we don't offer a come and select your willow or watch your bat being made. We are in the market for a different type of customer.
In the past I have owned 2 custom made bats by small UK companies that you would class as true bat companies. One was awesome and the other not as good as the bats I have at the moment. Maybe it was a one off. Money from our sales like any other business is currently being reinvested back into our company for various things.
I think we both have to accept we have differing opinions on the matter and that's fine :) , but we are definetly not this evil money making brand that cares for little for anyhting else. We could have put silly prices on our bats like some other brands but I do not think we have.
I'm just pleased it's been a civil thread and been an interesting discussion. I'm pretty mellow but opinionated lol :)
Personally on a side note, if it wasn't for our own brand (Use what you sell), at this moment in time the brand from the bespoke companies that really interests me is the Redback bats. They look fantastic and I have always wanted to try a Salix...
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OMG I didnt realise I'd typed so much ;D
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Bash,
I know i said i was gonna leave it there, but just to finish I would also like to say im glad it stayed civil :) At one point I thought it was gonna turn nasty and one of us getting the boot off the forum! haha
Like you said its clear we have differing opinions and like yourself can be very opinated when it comes to matters close to my heart.
Im glad you stuck to your guns and gave as good as you got! haha
I believe its been a constructive 'debate' and now I feel everyone on the forum will get an insight into your company. I admit i may have been a little hasty in judging you and for that i will apologise but I stick by my views and opinions.
I hope you stick to the forum, where i believe you will gain great insight into what a consumer desires from a company.
Cheers
Dan
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Thank you Dan
It's appreciated.
Kind regards
Bash
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Bash at penine just sent us down some kit to the Devon Disabled Cricket team and one of the pieces of kit he sent was a very respectable bat!! It was a Pen-Y-Ghent lovely piece of willow a large profile and edges and a super light pick up!! I don't know the weight to be exact but the balance is superb too!!! I shall post some pics later!!! And thanks to bash and all the Guys at penine cricket!! Out of all the people who have made pledges of kit they are the first to get any through to us!!!